Adorecream said:

I think it is pointless and being 100% non African and non Negro, find it offensive, that blacks can say nigga all the time, but we cannot as it is "racist", absolute hypocrisy, anyway most of the songs with it, are his shitty trend chasing wannabe rap songs of the early and mid 1990s. Whe he was hanging out with Tony M and all those other hip black guys in his group and wanting to be down with the brothers. Yet back in 1986 he was chilling with Jerome, Greg and Wally, so wanting to be with the boyz was hradly new for Prince. It was dumb as Prince's music transcended the narrow cultural and mental bands of syncopated rap music. Songs like The Flow, Face Down and Hide the Bone are just junk, along with all of Goldnigga. He was cheapening his legacy by even recording this garbage and then putting it on albums. I am sure it was a favour to expose talentless hacks like Tony M, TC Ellis and Kirky J.

You are most certaintly entitled to your opinion, but to say that his usage of the word was heavily influenced by the Gameboyz would be a little farfetched, considering those same guys (and guys like them) were around him during the late 70's and early 80's as well. There is a valid reason why and how black culture came to be, and for many who aren't black, it's a difficult thing to accept. A lot of what came out during those '90's records was just an updated version of the same ole Prince. All of those songs are a part of him, whether we choose to discount it as garbage or not. Most of the subject matter on the "Goldnigga" album dealt with issues still plaguing the african american community today, maybe even more than the times it was recorded in.

LBrent said:

Adorecream said:

I think it is pointless and being 100% non African and non Negro, find it offensive, that blacks can say nigga all the time, but we cannot as it is "racist", absolute hypocrisy, anyway most of the songs with it, are his shitty trend chasing wannabe rap songs of the early and mid 1990s. Whe he was hanging out with Tony M and all those other hip black guys in his group and wanting to be down with the brothers. Yet back in 1986 he was chilling with Jerome, Greg and Wally, so wanting to be with the boyz was hradly new for Prince. It was dumb as Prince's music transcended the narrow cultural and mental bands of syncopated rap music. Songs like The Flow, Face Down and Hide the Bone are just junk, along with all of Goldnigga. He was cheapening his legacy by even recording this garbage and then putting it on albums. I am sure it was a favour to expose talentless hacks like Tony M, TC Ellis and Kirky J.

.

But he was trend chasing way before that, he was inventing Morris Day to play his streetwise jive style and at heart Prince was one of the Black men who chilled on the corner. I know he had light skin and could write music to rival some of the classic composers, and no doubt many white fans, have this fantasy of him as a white artist writing poppy music for whites. In reality Prince said it himself "Just another N****r singing". Prince was an R and B artist first whether he wanted pigeon holing or not, he may have not wanted that in the 70 and 80s, but by the 90s through to now, he wanted to be taken seriously as a Black man and Black musician again.

The early Time songs and recordings like Baconskin, Chocolate and Do yourself a favour, show Prince adopting a Black pimp like role and it reprises even with all the Jive talking on the Black album and Lovesexy "My name is Andre Crabtree the Third and I have more holes than a golfcourse" that is all Prince. Morris's lines in Chili Sauce - that was all Prince living a fantasy of a streetwise, jive ass Black male hustler. These later rap songs are more of the same. Later on by the 2000s, Prince's music was more R and B and jazz and had a Blacker sound than his mid to late 80s pop offerings and by 2013 Prince had an afro and spoke about blackness all the time, his last albums were full of Black empowerment jams like Baltimore, Black Muse and Mr Man amongst others. Prince achieved piece with his identity by then.

.

This thread links into the uncomfortable truth many face, Prince was a Black artist who made Black music that appealed to all colours of people. No white person I know would even be called Prince, unless they were a real Prince, I mean the name Prince is common amongst Black Americans and through Africa (Prince and its foreign equivalents are in the Top 10 of names in Ghana, Nigeria and the DRC), the only white Prince's I can think are royal ones and Michael Jackson's two boys, who were at least raised by a man who was born a Black American and named them after his mothers father (Prince Scruse - Katherine Jackson's father) who was a Black American born to a slave couple.

.

Nigga was a popular word in the late 80s on-wards popularised through hip hop culture and the spelling was altered to separate it from the racist epithet. I have also heard black people call each other Negro out of affirmation or derision, yet again non Blacks can not use the term as it is racist. Here I disagree, a term should be racist or not, regardless of who uses it, to me N****r is a racist term full stop, it is derogatory and inflammatory and brings up connotations and stereotypes through its usage. There is no justification for its use at all. It is up there with fuck and c**t as the most offensive words ever.

.

I don't think Prince had an identity crisis, in the early days he chose to be multiracial and not black as he saw the Chitin circuit as horrible and limiting him to one type of music, there was a true chart and music apartheid until MJ's and Lionel Richie's true crossover in 1982/83 and that bought prince, Whitney and a few others to superstar success reserved for whites, with even top Black attractions only going so far (Sam Cooke was the only one until Stevie and Michael), even huge black stars like James Brown and Parliament only went so far in the white world. A Black artist before 1982 would only break through, if they had real mass appeal to whites or incredible talent like Stevie Wonder or Michael Jackson. Okay Lover was a hit for Prince, but his true breakthrough only came with Little Red Corvette, a very white sounding pop song. By 1983, he realised he had made a mistake isolating his black core audience and by 1987 he was trying to get them back, finally achieving that in the mid 1990s and the 2000s. In reality Diamonds and Pearls was his first truly Black/urban sounding album and even that had the rock ditties Cream and Thunder. Prince wisely never forgot his white rock sound too and that is why white rock tracks were also left in with r and b and pop.

.

Unlike many artists Black and White, Prince could write and perform for all pop genres, rock, soul, funk and others. Too many other groups had one sound, but his experiments with expletive laden and racist rap songs never worked. His best rap days of wild, strangely does not have the n word in it, although Motherfucker appears a lot.

That was very well thought out and explained...although, as "cool" as you seem and as sensitive to the subject you appear, with all due respect, you as a White person are supposed to feel that way. You're supposed to feel offended, guilty, outraged, opposed to it's use. Perfect.

However, as much as I appreciate your appreciation of P's genius, as sensitive as you feel to the word, it's use, the hypocrisy you think is going on by the Black community using it or not using it, etc, etc...NonWhites can only know what "being Black" and the accompaying experiences/ramifications/social constructs/impact/legacy are up to a certain point.

I could explain more about the use of the word in our community, but to be be frank, it's outside your purview. That's not meant to be insulting, simply a fact.

Some of White resentment also stems from the fact that nonWhites know White culture better than Whites know nonWhite culture...because Whites mostly ignored other races (even the servants who stood silently in the White House but heard everything)..Other races' LIVES depended on getting to know Whites inside and out to guage thier moods and how it would affect us. White folks don't realize that we nonBlacks have forgotten more about y'all than you've ever and will ever know about us...even if you sleep next to us and love us.

Look at it this way...Say a family good-naturedly teases each other with "the dozens", it's inappropriate for someone outside the family to jump into the game and/or interrupt the fun with outrage. The "outsider" may mean well, but they should stay in thier own lane...Same with that word.

I realize that it makes White folks uncomfortable cuz historically it was invented by them and the decendants don't like being reminded of it's ugly history, also White folks feel entitled to walk the planet with a certain all-encompassing unrestricted power...being told that they can't say a word they invented must rankle, but...Oh well.

Nothing personal, sweetie.

[Edited 1/29/17 18:29pm]

Don't like it. Don't like the use of it anywhere by anyone.

LBrent said:

Adorecream said:

I think it is pointless and being 100% non African and non Negro, find it offensive, that blacks can say nigga all the time, but we cannot as it is "racist", absolute hypocrisy, anyway most of the songs with it, are his shitty trend chasing wannabe rap songs of the early and mid 1990s. Whe he was hanging out with Tony M and all those other hip black guys in his group and wanting to be down with the brothers. Yet back in 1986 he was chilling with Jerome, Greg and Wally, so wanting to be with the boyz was hradly new for Prince. It was dumb as Prince's music transcended the narrow cultural and mental bands of syncopated rap music. Songs like The Flow, Face Down and Hide the Bone are just junk, along with all of Goldnigga. He was cheapening his legacy by even recording this garbage and then putting it on albums. I am sure it was a favour to expose talentless hacks like Tony M, TC Ellis and Kirky J.

.

But he was trend chasing way before that, he was inventing Morris Day to play his streetwise jive style and at heart Prince was one of the Black men who chilled on the corner. I know he had light skin and could write music to rival some of the classic composers, and no doubt many white fans, have this fantasy of him as a white artist writing poppy music for whites. In reality Prince said it himself "Just another N****r singing". Prince was an R and B artist first whether he wanted pigeon holing or not, he may have not wanted that in the 70 and 80s, but by the 90s through to now, he wanted to be taken seriously as a Black man and Black musician again.

The early Time songs and recordings like Baconskin, Chocolate and Do yourself a favour, show Prince adopting a Black pimp like role and it reprises even with all the Jive talking on the Black album and Lovesexy "My name is Andre Crabtree the Third and I have more holes than a golfcourse" that is all Prince. Morris's lines in Chili Sauce - that was all Prince living a fantasy of a streetwise, jive ass Black male hustler. These later rap songs are more of the same. Later on by the 2000s, Prince's music was more R and B and jazz and had a Blacker sound than his mid to late 80s pop offerings and by 2013 Prince had an afro and spoke about blackness all the time, his last albums were full of Black empowerment jams like Baltimore, Black Muse and Mr Man amongst others. Prince achieved piece with his identity by then.

.

This thread links into the uncomfortable truth many face, Prince was a Black artist who made Black music that appealed to all colours of people. No white person I know would even be called Prince, unless they were a real Prince, I mean the name Prince is common amongst Black Americans and through Africa (Prince and its foreign equivalents are in the Top 10 of names in Ghana, Nigeria and the DRC), the only white Prince's I can think are royal ones and Michael Jackson's two boys, who were at least raised by a man who was born a Black American and named them after his mothers father (Prince Scruse - Katherine Jackson's father) who was a Black American born to a slave couple.

.

Nigga was a popular word in the late 80s on-wards popularised through hip hop culture and the spelling was altered to separate it from the racist epithet. I have also heard black people call each other Negro out of affirmation or derision, yet again non Blacks can not use the term as it is racist. Here I disagree, a term should be racist or not, regardless of who uses it, to me N****r is a racist term full stop, it is derogatory and inflammatory and brings up connotations and stereotypes through its usage. There is no justification for its use at all. It is up there with fuck and c**t as the most offensive words ever.

.

I don't think Prince had an identity crisis, in the early days he chose to be multiracial and not black as he saw the Chitin circuit as horrible and limiting him to one type of music, there was a true chart and music apartheid until MJ's and Lionel Richie's true crossover in 1982/83 and that bought prince, Whitney and a few others to superstar success reserved for whites, with even top Black attractions only going so far (Sam Cooke was the only one until Stevie and Michael), even huge black stars like James Brown and Parliament only went so far in the white world. A Black artist before 1982 would only break through, if they had real mass appeal to whites or incredible talent like Stevie Wonder or Michael Jackson. Okay Lover was a hit for Prince, but his true breakthrough only came with Little Red Corvette, a very white sounding pop song. By 1983, he realised he had made a mistake isolating his black core audience and by 1987 he was trying to get them back, finally achieving that in the mid 1990s and the 2000s. In reality Diamonds and Pearls was his first truly Black/urban sounding album and even that had the rock ditties Cream and Thunder. Prince wisely never forgot his white rock sound too and that is why white rock tracks were also left in with r and b and pop.

.

Unlike many artists Black and White, Prince could write and perform for all pop genres, rock, soul, funk and others. Too many other groups had one sound, but his experiments with expletive laden and racist rap songs never worked. His best rap days of wild, strangely does not have the n word in it, although Motherfucker appears a lot.

That was very well thought out and explained...although, as "cool" as you seem and as sensitive to the subject you appear, with all due respect, you as a White person are supposed to feel that way. You're supposed to feel offended, guilty, outraged, opposed to it's use. Perfect.

However, as much as I appreciate your appreciation of P's genius, as sensitive as you feel to the word, it's use, the hypocrisy you think is going on by the Black community using it or not using it, etc, etc...NonWhites can only know what "being Black" and the accompaying experiences/ramifications/social constructs/impact/legacy are up to a certain point.

I could explain more about the use of the word in our community, but to be be frank, it's outside your purview. That's not meant to be insulting, simply a fact.

Some of White resentment also stems from the fact that nonWhites know White culture better than Whites know nonWhite culture...because Whites mostly ignored other races (even the servants who stood silently in the White House but heard everything)..Other races' LIVES depended on getting to know Whites inside and out to guage thier moods and how it would affect us. White folks don't realize that we nonBlacks have forgotten more about y'all than you've ever and will ever know about us...even if you sleep next to us and love us.

Look at it this way...Say a family good-naturedly teases each other with "the dozens", it's inappropriate for someone outside the family to jump into the game and/or interrupt the fun with outrage. The "outsider" may mean well, but they should stay in thier own lane...Same with that word.

I realize that it makes White folks uncomfortable cuz historically it was invented by them and the decendants don't like being reminded of it's ugly history, also White folks feel entitled to walk the planet with a certain all-encompassing unrestricted power...being told that they can't say a word they invented must rankle, but...Oh well.

Nothing personal, sweetie.

[Edited 1/29/17 18:29pm]

I get what you are saying here LBrent. I think it is empowering for a culture to take baack a word that was used so derogatively towards them in midst of such horrific inequality. As the old song said, they can bend it, shape it,anyway they want it. I doubt it will ever will FEEL the same when a white person says it. That's not so hard to get, even for a whitie such as myself .

gandorb said:

LBrent said:

That was very well thought out and explained...although, as "cool" as you seem and as sensitive to the subject you appear, with all due respect, you as a White person are supposed to feel that way. You're supposed to feel offended, guilty, outraged, opposed to it's use. Perfect.

However, as much as I appreciate your appreciation of P's genius, as sensitive as you feel to the word, it's use, the hypocrisy you think is going on by the Black community using it or not using it, etc, etc...NonWhites can only know what "being Black" and the accompaying experiences/ramifications/social constructs/impact/legacy are up to a certain point.

I could explain more about the use of the word in our community, but to be be frank, it's outside your purview. That's not meant to be insulting, simply a fact.

Some of White resentment also stems from the fact that nonWhites know White culture better than Whites know nonWhite culture...because Whites mostly ignored other races (even the servants who stood silently in the White House but heard everything)..Other races' LIVES depended on getting to know Whites inside and out to guage thier moods and how it would affect us. White folks don't realize that we nonBlacks have forgotten more about y'all than you've ever and will ever know about us...even if you sleep next to us and love us.

Look at it this way...Say a family good-naturedly teases each other with "the dozens", it's inappropriate for someone outside the family to jump into the game and/or interrupt the fun with outrage. The "outsider" may mean well, but they should stay in thier own lane...Same with that word.

I realize that it makes White folks uncomfortable cuz historically it was invented by them and the decendants don't like being reminded of it's ugly history, also White folks feel entitled to walk the planet with a certain all-encompassing unrestricted power...being told that they can't say a word they invented must rankle, but...Oh well.

Nothing personal, sweetie.

[Edited 1/29/17 18:29pm]

I get what you are saying here LBrent. I think it is empowering for a culture to take baack a word that was used so derogatively towards them in midst of such horrific inequality. As the old song said, they can bend it, shape it, anyway they want it. I doubt it will ever will FEEL the same when a white person says it. That's not so hard to get, even for a whitie such as myself .

That's all I'm sayin.

I didn't mind it, wasn't offended by it. As a black man there was nothing inappropriate about Prince using it in his lyrics, or in the way he used it. Some people tend to over-think some things, this being one of them imo. (Would feel different if it were a white performer using the word, but of course that's an entirely different story.)

[Edited 1/30/17 1:28am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

Don't like it. Don't like the use of it anywhere by anyone.

I know...and I understand, honest.

This reminds me of a post I made recently regarding race.

Firstly, I'm not asking to know your race.

A comment was by a White person who felt that discussing racial tension was attacking him personally and he commented "I'm not racist! I don't see color!"

I replied with something a White person reading this may not realize when they say they don't "see color".

I know you may not be racist or are trying to say< "I like you for who you are." But saying you don't see color is not a compliment. NonWhites who like you may not say anything because they like you, but it sounds like, "I'm so awesomely White that I have the power to ignore your race and absolve you of the sin of not being White because I like you."

Sorta like expecting an attaboy for saying, "I love you so much that I don't even see how fat you are. Aren't I the bestestest???" or the infamous, "Colin Powell is so well spoken!" Again...not a compliment...He was an incredibly well educated man, he's supposed to be articulate. Doh.

For a White person to say, "I hate that word and don't use it and don't want anyone else to use it", it actually reads as, "I don't particularly like that word, but I resent not having the option of using it taken away from me cuz I'm White and am accustomed to doing pretty much as I wish but in this case if I use that word I either end up looking like a racist azzhole when all I wanna be is 'down with y'all' or if I push the issue with the right n*gga I might end up with a fat lip and my front teeth in a plastic cup so I'mma chill...but I don't like it!"

I'm just being honest. Lol

LBrent said:

Adorecream said:

I think it is pointless and being 100% non African and non Negro, find it offensive, that blacks can say nigga all the time, but we cannot as it is "racist", absolute hypocrisy, anyway most of the songs with it, are his shitty trend chasing wannabe rap songs of the early and mid 1990s. Whe he was hanging out with Tony M and all those other hip black guys in his group and wanting to be down with the brothers. Yet back in 1986 he was chilling with Jerome, Greg and Wally, so wanting to be with the boyz was hradly new for Prince. It was dumb as Prince's music transcended the narrow cultural and mental bands of syncopated rap music. Songs like The Flow, Face Down and Hide the Bone are just junk, along with all of Goldnigga. He was cheapening his legacy by even recording this garbage and then putting it on albums. I am sure it was a favour to expose talentless hacks like Tony M, TC Ellis and Kirky J.

.

But he was trend chasing way before that, he was inventing Morris Day to play his streetwise jive style and at heart Prince was one of the Black men who chilled on the corner. I know he had light skin and could write music to rival some of the classic composers, and no doubt many white fans, have this fantasy of him as a white artist writing poppy music for whites. In reality Prince said it himself "Just another N****r singing". Prince was an R and B artist first whether he wanted pigeon holing or not, he may have not wanted that in the 70 and 80s, but by the 90s through to now, he wanted to be taken seriously as a Black man and Black musician again.

The early Time songs and recordings like Baconskin, Chocolate and Do yourself a favour, show Prince adopting a Black pimp like role and it reprises even with all the Jive talking on the Black album and Lovesexy "My name is Andre Crabtree the Third and I have more holes than a golfcourse" that is all Prince. Morris's lines in Chili Sauce - that was all Prince living a fantasy of a streetwise, jive ass Black male hustler. These later rap songs are more of the same. Later on by the 2000s, Prince's music was more R and B and jazz and had a Blacker sound than his mid to late 80s pop offerings and by 2013 Prince had an afro and spoke about blackness all the time, his last albums were full of Black empowerment jams like Baltimore, Black Muse and Mr Man amongst others. Prince achieved piece with his identity by then.

.

This thread links into the uncomfortable truth many face, Prince was a Black artist who made Black music that appealed to all colours of people. No white person I know would even be called Prince, unless they were a real Prince, I mean the name Prince is common amongst Black Americans and through Africa (Prince and its foreign equivalents are in the Top 10 of names in Ghana, Nigeria and the DRC), the only white Prince's I can think are royal ones and Michael Jackson's two boys, who were at least raised by a man who was born a Black American and named them after his mothers father (Prince Scruse - Katherine Jackson's father) who was a Black American born to a slave couple.

.

Nigga was a popular word in the late 80s on-wards popularised through hip hop culture and the spelling was altered to separate it from the racist epithet. I have also heard black people call each other Negro out of affirmation or derision, yet again non Blacks can not use the term as it is racist. Here I disagree, a term should be racist or not, regardless of who uses it, to me N****r is a racist term full stop, it is derogatory and inflammatory and brings up connotations and stereotypes through its usage. There is no justification for its use at all. It is up there with fuck and c**t as the most offensive words ever.

.

I don't think Prince had an identity crisis, in the early days he chose to be multiracial and not black as he saw the Chitin circuit as horrible and limiting him to one type of music, there was a true chart and music apartheid until MJ's and Lionel Richie's true crossover in 1982/83 and that bought prince, Whitney and a few others to superstar success reserved for whites, with even top Black attractions only going so far (Sam Cooke was the only one until Stevie and Michael), even huge black stars like James Brown and Parliament only went so far in the white world. A Black artist before 1982 would only break through, if they had real mass appeal to whites or incredible talent like Stevie Wonder or Michael Jackson. Okay Lover was a hit for Prince, but his true breakthrough only came with Little Red Corvette, a very white sounding pop song. By 1983, he realised he had made a mistake isolating his black core audience and by 1987 he was trying to get them back, finally achieving that in the mid 1990s and the 2000s. In reality Diamonds and Pearls was his first truly Black/urban sounding album and even that had the rock ditties Cream and Thunder. Prince wisely never forgot his white rock sound too and that is why white rock tracks were also left in with r and b and pop.

.

Unlike many artists Black and White, Prince could write and perform for all pop genres, rock, soul, funk and others. Too many other groups had one sound, but his experiments with expletive laden and racist rap songs never worked. His best rap days of wild, strangely does not have the n word in it, although Motherfucker appears a lot.

That was very well thought out and explained...although, as "cool" as you seem and as sensitive to the subject you appear, with all due respect, you as a White person are supposed to feel that way. You're supposed to feel offended, guilty, outraged, opposed to it's use. Perfect.

However, as much as I appreciate your appreciation of P's genius, as sensitive as you feel to the word, it's use, the hypocrisy you think is going on by the Black community using it or not using it, etc, etc...NonWhites can only know what "being Black" and the accompaying experiences/ramifications/social constructs/impact/legacy are up to a certain point.

I could explain more about the use of the word in our community, but to be be frank, it's outside your purview. That's not meant to be insulting, simply a fact.

Some of White resentment also stems from the fact that nonWhites know White culture better than Whites know nonWhite culture...because Whites mostly ignored other races (even the servants who stood silently in the White House but heard everything)..Other races' LIVES depended on getting to know Whites inside and out to guage thier moods and how it would affect us. White folks don't realize that we nonBlacks have forgotten more about y'all than you've ever and will ever know about us...even if you sleep next to us and love us.

Look at it this way...Say a family good-naturedly teases each other with "the dozens", it's inappropriate for someone outside the family to jump into the game and/or interrupt the fun with outrage. The "outsider" may mean well, but they should stay in thier own lane...Same with that word.

I realize that it makes White folks uncomfortable cuz historically it was invented by them and the decendants don't like being reminded of it's ugly history, also White folks feel entitled to walk the planet with a certain all-encompassing unrestricted power...being told that they can't say a word they invented must rankle, but...Oh well.

Nothing personal, sweetie.

[Edited 1/29/17 18:29pm]

Erm, Adorecream is part Maori and part white New Zealander... People are not just black or white

Chakradelica said:

FullLipsDotNose said:

Does it bother you? And if you don't have black ancestry, does it bother you that you shouldn't sing some of his songs (unless you alter the lyrics)?

How do you feel when Prince says in Whole of the Moon, "U lied and called me a coon"?

I think it's perfect! Complements the rest of the lyrics well

sonshine said:

I didn't mind it, wasn't offended by it. As a black man I felt there was nothing inappropriate about him using it in his lyrics, or in the way he used it. Some people tend to over-think some things, this being one of them imo. (Would feel different if it were a white performer using the word, but of course that's an entirely different story.)

I know, I have Asperger's Syndrome and this is my favourite activity

I'm glad to see all sides of this discussion. I'm a white woman who teaches on issues of race and colonialism at the college level - and my personal solution is that I don't use the n-word in class myself, though we do deal with writing and lyrics that use it.

I struggled with this in a class I just taught, and I decided to tell the students that I don't use any slurs that refer to identity (b•itch, c•nt, f•aggot - a-hole's okay, because it's universal....) as my own personal choice, but that we would be hearing these words - and that Prince himself did not use in performance in his later career. I don't ban students from using these words themselves, but I do encourage them to think about whether their use of the words will move classroom conversation forward or if it could disturb others enough that it prevents participation.

But they left my classroom not even knowing GoldNigga exists - and I'm very conflicted about that. This is also partly because it wasn't available on the streaming service we used as the "textbook", and it wasn't feasible to order it for the library.

I did teach "P. Control", but referred to it by the sanitized name (mostly - I might have used the whole word in discussing the lyrics).

Just throwing another experience into the mix.

Peace and be wild.

[Edited 1/30/17 0:09am]

FullLipsDotNose said:

Chakradelica said:

How do you feel when Prince says in Whole of the Moon, "U lied and called me a coon"?

I think it's perfect! Complements the rest of the lyrics well

So about when he says, "In a real battle those loops y'all got suffer TKO's, Until U're playing in front of 70,000 U'll never know, n*" in Y Should I Do That When I Can Do This?

FullLipsDotNose said:

Erm, Adorecream is part Maori and part white New Zealander... People are not just black or white

Yes...I'm aware of that in more ways than you can know, however, for the purposes of clarity in this discussion on US Black and White racial interaction as pertains to P, Moari where not pertinent nor were Samoans or other Pacific Islanders for that matter (although I'd be willing to make them pertinent if only to have an excuse to see All Blacks do the haka For research...Ahem.).

There are many nonWhite races, which is why when I meant Black I put that and when I meant White I put that and when I meant nonBlack but not necessarily White, I put nonBlack and when I meant nonWhite but not necessarily Black, I put nonWhite. (I was a career nurse, documenting specifics for clarity was a large part of my work.)

But I digress...

LittleProfessor said:

I'm glad to see all sides of this discussion. I'm a white woman who teaches on issues of race and colonialism at the college level - and my personal solution is that I don't use the n-word in class myself, though we do deal with writing and lyrics that use it.

I struggled with this in a class I just taught, and I decided to tell the students that I don't use any slurs that refer to identity (b•itch, c•nt, f•aggot - a-hole's okay, because it's universal....) as my own personal choice, but that we would be hearing these words - and that Prince himself did not use in performance in his later career. I don't ban students from using these words themselves, but I do encourage them to think about whether their use of the words will move classroom conversation forward or if it could disturb others enough that it prevents participation.

But they left my classroom not even knowing GoldNigga exists - and I'm very conflicted about that. This is also partly because it wasn't available on the streaming service we used as the "textbook", and it wasn't feasible to order it for the library.

I did teach "P. Control", but referred to it by the sanitized name (mostly - I might have used the whole word in discussing the lyrics).

Just throwing another experience into the mix.

Peace and be wild.

[Edited 1/30/17 0:09am]

I'm not surprised to see this well-balanced stance taken by an educator. Bravo!

Now if we could just clone you...

[Edited 1/30/17 0:38am]

Chakradelica said:

FullLipsDotNose said:

I think it's perfect! Complements the rest of the lyrics well

So about when he says, "In a real battle those loops y'all got suffer TKO's, Until U're playing in front of 70,000 U'll never know, n*" in Y Should I Do That When I Can Do This?

I don't like it, but that's because it's a superfluous word. The rhyme is already there and the word sort of kills it

FullLipsDotNose said:

LBrent said:

That was very well thought out and explained...although, as "cool" as you seem and as sensitive to the subject you appear, with all due respect, you as a White person are supposed to feel that way. You're supposed to feel offended, guilty, outraged, opposed to it's use. Perfect.

However, as much as I appreciate your appreciation of P's genius, as sensitive as you feel to the word, it's use, the hypocrisy you think is going on by the Black community using it or not using it, etc, etc...NonWhites can only know what "being Black" and the accompaying experiences/ramifications/social constructs/impact/legacy are up to a certain point.

I could explain more about the use of the word in our community, but to be be frank, it's outside your purview. That's not meant to be insulting, simply a fact.

Some of White resentment also stems from the fact that nonWhites know White culture better than Whites know nonWhite culture...because Whites mostly ignored other races (even the servants who stood silently in the White House but heard everything)..Other races' LIVES depended on getting to know Whites inside and out to guage thier moods and how it would affect us. White folks don't realize that we nonBlacks have forgotten more about y'all than you've ever and will ever know about us...even if you sleep next to us and love us.

Look at it this way...Say a family good-naturedly teases each other with "the dozens", it's inappropriate for someone outside the family to jump into the game and/or interrupt the fun with outrage. The "outsider" may mean well, but they should stay in thier own lane...Same with that word.

I realize that it makes White folks uncomfortable cuz historically it was invented by them and the decendants don't like being reminded of it's ugly history, also White folks feel entitled to walk the planet with a certain all-encompassing unrestricted power...being told that they can't say a word they invented must rankle, but...Oh well.

Nothing personal, sweetie.

[Edited 1/29/17 18:29pm]

Erm, Adorecream is part Maori and part white New Zealander... People are not just black or white

LBrent, I agree, being white I could never have that inside knowledgea nd I think you views about the cultural baggage such terms engenders does mean a lot to the African and African American people. and jealousy does stem from so called White experts on Black culture, and I agree, that emrely outside looking in will never be teh same as being a member of a community. You can study a different culture, immerse yourself in it and live it, but you can never be it.

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Full lips you are right, but The Maoris are not Black or African derived, we are an Asian (Mongoloid) people and Iam primarily white anyway. Maori were treated poorly in colonialism, but we were never enslaved or subjected to the same levels of racism and other bullshit Black people in all the Americas were, also Maoris do not have the same rich musical heritage and gifts the African American people including Prince and Michael Jackson have offered the world. We are all richer for their contributions.

If there is really a such thing, I've, more than once, been told that I don't know how to say curse words. ?? O.o Yeah. I rarely use profanity and some words will never come from my lips even if I was the only one in the room. Well, I thought Prince didn't sound right using profanity--in a way to make me believe he really didn't desire using profanity at all but had his reasons for doing so.

FullLipsDotNose said:

Does it bother you? And if you don't have black ancestry, does it bother you that you shouldn't sing some of his songs (unless you alter the lyrics)?

P was Black. How can a black person saying "nigga" be offensive? It's like Woody Allen or South Park making jokes on Jews, they can because they're Jew.

databank said:

FullLipsDotNose said:

Does it bother you? And if you don't have black ancestry, does it bother you that you shouldn't sing some of his songs (unless you alter the lyrics)?

P was Black. How can a black person saying "nigga" be offensive? It's like Woody Allen or South Park making jokes on Jews, they can because they're Jew.

I had a black schoolmate that hated the word, so there are black people that have a problem with the word apparently.

That's the way he chose to express himself at the time. I never saw Prince as this big curser anyway. They are and were people industy that cuss and used the n- word more then Prince ever did. How can people have an issue with Prince using the n-word but criticize Prince's choice to change lyrics or not sing cuss words in his later career.

I don't think anyone of any color should say it. Period. It always amused me that Prince seemed to be trying to be gangsta, when he was always the classiest guy around - he walked the walk and talked the talk with an attitude that was unmatched by anyone.

1Sasha said:

I don't think anyone of any color should say it. Period. It always amused me that Prince seemed to be trying to be gangsta, when he was always the classiest guy around - he walked the walk and talked the talk with an attitude that was unmatched by anyone.

Even when he imitated an old guy? I think he wanted to embrace as many characters as possible.

databank said:

FullLipsDotNose said:

Does it bother you? And if you don't have black ancestry, does it bother you that you shouldn't sing some of his songs (unless you alter the lyrics)?

P was Black. How can a black person saying "nigga" be offensive? It's like Woody Allen or South Park making jokes on Jews, they can because they're Jew.

Lots of African-Americans find the word offensive.
In the early 1990s as Hip Hop began expanding in the music world, there were many live debates on the pro & con on the use of this.
.
Also the use of Nigga as a term of endearment is bogus. Too many 'brothas' yell that word at another black man during a fight, during an assault etc A person doesn't yell 'friend/brother' when they are beating someone down.

.

I'm a big fan of the Roots & Common(rapper) and I've always wanted to share their music with people who only knew certain types of rap as official rap. But they used that term too often in their music.

.
NIGGA is just country-slang for the real word that ends in ER

coldasice said:

I just took it as him finally claiming his roots. He never really spoke about his race and even the mixed parents in Purple Rain. Gold Nigga!!!

There was a rising awareness of being black for Prince at the time. Racial issues were almost never addressed in any of his works prior to that (contributing to make him as "white" as a black artist could be). Then all of a sudden we got that whole bunch of songs: The Sacrifice Of Victor, Black MF In The House, Color, Super Hero, Uncle Sam, Paris 1798430, We March, Race... In that aspect and many others Prince embraced certain traditions of Black music that he'd been ignoring so far, and Gold Nigga and Exodus, those 2 albums, were very much an expression of that. Like the Time before it, The NPG became a vessel for a more R&B side of Prince's music, but with a certain political awareness that was totally ignored with The Time, save maybe a little in Ice Cream Castles' lyrics (the "I am black, u r white" line). People blamed him for trying to be trendy when embracing hip-hop, and getting a less idiosyncratic sound than before, but I think P sort of wanted to reconcile himself with his musical/cultural roots.

2freaky4church1 said:

He did it in context.

Ice-T liked it:

Hell yes.

CLASSIC! Hadn't heard that one in a minute, pushed play and I'm bopping my head and singing along and I'm white....

Based on everything I've ever heard Ice-T say (as a fan of his for 30 years) I am certain he would be cool with that.

As for Prince, lyrics aren't as much of a problem as an album with the title Gold Nigga.

If I'm discussing P's albums there is no way in hell I'm calling that one "Gold N-Word".
The album is called Gold Nigga and if I'm speaking on it in context I'm gonna call it "Gold Nigga".

As for how I "feel" about it? I don't. I was already listening to Ice-T & NWA and others before Prince started doing it, so, I never thought much about it. Besides, he didn't do it a lot like the rappers did, you could probably fit all his songs with the word on one CD.

djThunderfunk said:

CLASSIC! Hadn't heard that one in a minute, pushed play and I'm bopping my head and singing along and I'm white....

Based on everything I've ever heard Ice-T say (as a fan of his for 30 years) I am certain he would be cool with that.

As for Prince, lyrics aren't as much of a problem as an album with the title Gold Nigga.

If I'm discussing P's albums there is no way in hell I'm calling that one "Gold N-Word".
The album is called Gold Nigga and if I'm speaking on it in context I'm gonna call it "Gold Nigga".

As for how I "feel" about it? I don't. I was already listening to Ice-T & NWA and others before Prince started doing it, so, I never thought much about it. Besides, he didn't do it a lot like the rappers did, you could probably fit all his songs with the word on one CD.

I've read a few opinions by black scholars and they said that if the word "nigga" is in a name, title or quote, you should write it or say it the way it was written or said originally. It was within the author's intentions and if you rewrite it, you basically misquote someone. It's also easier for reference. If every non-black orger said Gold N-Word instead of Gold Nigga, it would be harder to look up posts about the album.

[Edited 1/30/17 7:15am]

databank said:

coldasice said:

I just took it as him finally claiming his roots. He never really spoke about his race and even the mixed parents in Purple Rain. Gold Nigga!!!

There was a rising awareness of being black for Prince at the time. Racial issues were almost never addressed in any of his works prior to that (contributing to make him as "white" as a black artist could be). Then all of a sudden we got that whole bunch of songs: The Sacrifice Of Victor, Black MF In The House, Color, Super Hero, Uncle Sam, Paris 1798430, We March, Race... In that aspect and many others Prince embraced certain traditions of Black music that he'd been ignoring so far, and Gold Nigga and Exodus, those 2 albums, were very much an expression of that. Like the Time before it, The NPG became a vessel for a more R&B side of Prince's music, but with a certain political awareness that was totally ignored with The Time, save maybe a little in Ice Cream Castles' lyrics (the "I am black, u r white" line). People blamed him for trying to be trendy when embracing hip-hop, and getting a less idiosyncratic sound than before, but I think P sort of wanted to reconcile himself with his musical/cultural roots.

Puerto Ricans use that word too

It's a sad state if someone needs to use that term to claim roots or reconcile with roots. Which he was always reconciled with... view rock rnb disco jazz-(the main root via his parents)

I don't have black ancestry and I can sing all of his songs just fine. And I never thought twice about any words he used in his songs, except maybe "rape" in ExtraLovable was a little strong.

.

.

I was always more concerned how he "cleaned up" some of his songs like DMSR and Days of Wild and really messed them up. But he was human and not perfect and made some bad decisions like we all do.

[Edited 1/30/17 7:33am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

databank said:

There was a rising awareness of being black for Prince at the time. Racial issues were almost never addressed in any of his works prior to that (contributing to make him as "white" as a black artist could be). Then all of a sudden we got that whole bunch of songs: The Sacrifice Of Victor, Black MF In The House, Color, Super Hero, Uncle Sam, Paris 1798430, We March, Race... In that aspect and many others Prince embraced certain traditions of Black music that he'd been ignoring so far, and Gold Nigga and Exodus, those 2 albums, were very much an expression of that. Like the Time before it, The NPG became a vessel for a more R&B side of Prince's music, but with a certain political awareness that was totally ignored with The Time, save maybe a little in Ice Cream Castles' lyrics (the "I am black, u r white" line). People blamed him for trying to be trendy when embracing hip-hop, and getting a less idiosyncratic sound than before, but I think P sort of wanted to reconcile himself with his musical/cultural roots.

Puerto Ricans use that word too

It's a sad state if someone needs to use that term to claim roots or reconcile with roots. Which he was always reconciled with... view rock rnb disco jazz-(the main root via his parents)

OldFriends4Sale said:

databank said:

There was a rising awareness of being black for Prince at the time. Racial issues were almost never addressed in any of his works prior to that (contributing to make him as "white" as a black artist could be). Then all of a sudden we got that whole bunch of songs: The Sacrifice Of Victor, Black MF In The House, Color, Super Hero, Uncle Sam, Paris 1798430, We March, Race... In that aspect and many others Prince embraced certain traditions of Black music that he'd been ignoring so far, and Gold Nigga and Exodus, those 2 albums, were very much an expression of that. Like the Time before it, The NPG became a vessel for a more R&B side of Prince's music, but with a certain political awareness that was totally ignored with The Time, save maybe a little in Ice Cream Castles' lyrics (the "I am black, u r white" line). People blamed him for trying to be trendy when embracing hip-hop, and getting a less idiosyncratic sound than before, but I think P sort of wanted to reconcile himself with his musical/cultural roots.

Puerto Ricans use that word too

It's a sad state if someone needs to use that term to claim roots or reconcile with roots. Which he was always reconciled with... view rock rnb disco jazz-(the main root via his parents)

Yup, it's common here in NY. But there's still tension BETWEEN races using it. In other words, each group might use it among themselves, Dominicans also use it among themselves, also I have heard younger Asians and Whites into hip-hop use it among themselves. Lawd, when Eminem hit the scene it was mayhem hearing "Wiggers" use that word! BUT, it's frowned upon for any of them to use it outside thier own ethnic group...and still, not around Blacks...there are rare exceptions and they use it innocently as slang that they think is simply part of the hip-hop culture but I'm tellin y'all, they say it in the right place around the right person and it'll be on and poppin...and not in a good way. Lol

2freaky4church1 said:

He did it in context.

Ice-T liked it:

Hell yes.

I remember this song. Love IceT. L&O4Life!

LMAO

But on a serious note...For every White boy who loved this song and loved hip-hop and is far from racist, I hope they got IceT's message at the very very very end where a clearly White voice uses the word in a gesture of "I'm down with you" solidarity...and you hear gunshots and IceT says, "I don't play that."

I'll bet as close as he is with Richard Belzer, a NY Jew, Belz ain't using that word around IceT. Lol

So, yes, sing the songs with that word the way the artist intended...just do yourself a favor and don't misinterpret that as a license to use that word casually among Black folks. Listen to a Gary Owen comedy show if you get that reckless urge.