This is just my opinion, but I think he "went off the rails" in the early 90s. After being the boss and an international icon for over a decade - with probably no one saying "no" to him - he was emotionally and perhaps mentally gone IMO until the early 2000s - definitely by 2004. But then the last five years ... I just don't know. He was different - not more mature - but a different person, and a different persona. The constant rotation of 20-something girls, the almost uncontrollable changes, the obsessive compulsive need to be in control always for decades ...

1Sasha said:

This is just my opinion, but I think he "went off the rails" in the early 90s. After being the boss and an international icon for over a decade - with probably no one saying "no" to him - he was emotionally and perhaps mentally gone IMO until the early 2000s - definitely by 2004. But then the last five years ... I just don't know. He was different - not more mature - but a different person, and a different persona. The constant rotation of 20-something girls, the almost uncontrollable changes, the obsessive compulsive need to be in control always for decades ...

I agree. There is very little I like between about 92/3 and 2002 (the ONA aftershows totally kick ass), and I find it pretty hard to watch a lot of the performances. It just feels to me like he's not there. We can theorize a bunch about it, but I wonder if it actually started in the late eighties (Susannah leaving, the Revolution disintegrating, then the whole ecstasy trip/Black album thing...ppl say it was a very turbulent time, and some kind of unraveling began which picked up pace into the next decade)...but that's just a suspicion...

Jayseajay, I agree. Something went on. Maybe we'll never know ...

LBrent said:

jayseajay said:

I wonder also if that's also connected to what all the bathing was about (in part at least). It's the thing your mother does for you...just that kind of pure, unconditional care and tenderness. Sometimes people do things to others because it is what they want themselves, and for whatever reason they can't ask...

Very very good points.

Interesting connection...never thought of that

WeDaBest said:

LBrent said:

Very very good points.

Interesting connection...never thought of that

Which leads me to wonder if he ever experienced unconditional love as an adult and still left that relationship cuz he wasn't ready to accept it and/or it scared him?

[Edited 2/3/17 12:07pm]

LBrent said:

WeDaBest said:

Interesting connection...never thought of that

Which leads me to wonder if he ever experienced unconditional love as an adult and still left that relationship cuz he wasn't ready to accept it and/or it scared him?

[Edited 2/3/17 12:07pm]

Yup, or he felt smothered...(Jill defintely says this (as does her song))...which might be how the fear manifests itself. I'm not sure about exactly how this works, but I think it might be the unworthiness again...if they get too close they'll see and/or, if he gets what he wants and loses it (maybe because they'll see), then what? This is kind of why The Breakdown kills me (and maybe why it was such an emotional song for him)...by the end he knew it was his defense mechanisms throwing a spanner in the works (maybe he always knew)...it's like he almost got there...*more sniff*

LBrent said:

WeDaBest said:

Interesting connection...never thought of that

Which leads me to wonder if he ever experienced unconditional love as an adult and still left that relationship cuz he wasn't ready to accept it and/or it scared him?

[Edited 2/3/17 12:07pm]

That would be typical for Borderline Personality Disorder - trying desperately to find unconditional love but running away (or making the other one leave) once you found true love. So before the other one might leave you one day you destroy everything yourself because you are too scared

jayseajay said:

LBrent said:

Which leads me to wonder if he ever experienced unconditional love as an adult and still left that relationship cuz he wasn't ready to accept it and/or it scared him?

[Edited 2/3/17 12:07pm]

Yup, or he felt smothered...(Jill defintely says this (as does her song))...which might be how the fear manifests itself. I'm not sure about exactly how this works, but I think it might be the unworthiness again...if they get too close they'll see and/or, if he gets what he wants and loses it (maybe because they'll see), then what? This is kind of why The Breakdown kills me (and maybe why it was such an emotional song for him)...by the end he knew it was his defense mechanisms throwing a spanner in the works (maybe he always knew)...it's like he almost got there...*more sniff*

But then again, it's never quite clear to me that Prince the man actually always knew what the songs knew, which is kinda weird, but I sometimes get a strong impressions the songs knew things he wasn't actually able to hold on to...or that in some sense they sometimes knew more than he did...

Or maybe he just enjoyed sleeping around because he could . And was too much of a control freak and not willing to compromise to be in a relationship where both partners are on the same level instead of being with young women who could be his daughters or grand daughters and adored him like fans or even were fans from the very beginning.

jayseajay said:

But then again, it's never quite clear to me that Prince the man actually always knew what the songs knew, which is kinda weird, but I sometimes get a strong impressions the songs knew things he wasn't actually able to hold on to...or that in some sense they sometimes knew more than he did...

I know exactly what you mean, but I've never spoken it aloud or tried to articulate it. You expressed it perfectly!

Serious said:

Or maybe he just enjoyed sleeping around because he could . And was too much of a control freak and not willing to compromise to be in a relationship where both partners are on the same level instead of being with young women who could be his daughters or grand daughters and adored him like fans or even were fans from the very beginning.

Yes, but that's also a form of self saboutage, no?

jayseajay said:

LBrent said:

jayseajay said:

But then again, it's never quite clear to me that Prince the man actually always knew what the songs knew, which is kinda weird, but I sometimes get a strong impressions the songs knew things he wasn't actually able to hold on to...or that in some sense they sometimes knew more than he did...

I know exactly what you mean, but I've never spoken it aloud or tried to articulate it. You expressed it perfectly!

I'm kind of obsessed with Computer Blue/The Hallway Speech at the moment, and it's almost the whole story right there: Why has my lover left me? Because there is something wrong with me. What's wrong with me? I have all these dark, negative feelings, and I believe that if I let someone see them they'll leave me. So, instead, I treat women like butterflies (something to attract, capture, and try and pin down) when I know they're people (computers) too. When am I going to learn they're people too? I'm going to end up/carry on being lonely unless I get reprogrammed. He knew this when he was what, 24/25? And then he never does the obvious thing you would think someone would do if they really knew and understood what they seem to...or maybe rather, there is a really weird dynamic between how expressive he is in song, and how repressive he is in life...like the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing...

Paisleypearl, I have almost the same list of questions. I would add did anyone ever confront him on how he conducted his personal life? I am sure that most people who might have were terminated from his life, but someone at some time must have pierced that veil. Did anyone around him in the last six months of his life do anything after noticing his deteriorating physical condition? His mental condition since the early 90s has been a question for me, but the past couple of years ... What happened?

LBrent said:

jayseajay said:

But then again, it's never quite clear to me that Prince the man actually always knew what the songs knew, which is kinda weird, but I sometimes get a strong impressions the songs knew things he wasn't actually able to hold on to...or that in some sense they sometimes knew more than he did...

I know exactly what you mean, but I've never spoken it aloud or tried to articulate it. You expressed it perfectly!

Serious said:

Or maybe he just enjoyed sleeping around because he could . And was too much of a control freak and not willing to compromise to be in a relationship where both partners are on the same level instead of being with young women who could be his daughters or grand daughters and adored him like fans or even were fans from the very beginning.

Yes, but that's also a form of self saboutage, no?

Hmm depending on if he was longing for a serious lasting relationship and according to some of his lyrics he probably did maybe yes.

paisleypearl said:

jayseajay said:

But then again, it's never quite clear to me that Prince the man actually always knew what the songs knew, which is kinda weird, but I sometimes get a strong impressions the songs knew things he wasn't actually able to hold on to...or that in some sense they sometimes knew more than he did...

Yes I've had that same impression, I just want to yell *dont you get what you're saying??? Will you pay attention to yourself?! * It's like a brick wall was denying his awareness of himself.

Ha, yeah. I mentally shout at him all the time too. Particularly the 'put the spoon down' line in The Love We Make . And the bit in Empty Room where he's all 'why has she abandoned me?'...and I'm all 'BECAUSE YOU CHEATED ON HER DOOFUS.'

Um. Yeah.

I gotta go do some schtuff...Enjoy...

jayseajay said:

1Sasha said:

This is just my opinion, but I think he "went off the rails" in the early 90s. After being the boss and an international icon for over a decade - with probably no one saying "no" to him - he was emotionally and perhaps mentally gone IMO until the early 2000s - definitely by 2004. But then the last five years ... I just don't know. He was different - not more mature - but a different person, and a different persona. The constant rotation of 20-something girls, the almost uncontrollable changes, the obsessive compulsive need to be in control always for decades ...

Re the last 5 years: perhaps the pain medication for his hip problems eased both his physical AND emotional pain as well as muting the pointless hypersexuality? So it was all good...until it wasn't.

jayseajay said:

1Sasha said:

BillieBalloon said:

Prince doesnt strike me as someone who sat around reflecting on why he made the decisions he did.

This.

paisleypearl said:

1Sasha said:

Paisleypearl, I have almost the same list of questions. I would add did anyone ever confront him on how he conducted his personal life? I am sure that most people who might have were terminated from his life, but someone at some time must have pierced that veil. Did anyone around him in the last six months of his life do anything after noticing his deteriorating physical condition? His mental condition since the early 90s has been a question for me, but the past couple of years ... What happened?

There are actually people who will argue that he didn't look sick at all in his last months, so the people who COULD have helped him just jump on that bandwagon of denial. What answers did his girlfriend or wife get when she asked him Why do you keep cheating on me??? But I think I'm freaking people out with my questions, and if so I apologize.

I find it incredible really. He looked sick from the end of 2012/early 2013, and by the end...I don't know, yeah, maybe ppl just ignored it because they had no way of confronting him given how he was...and that in itself makes me sad. And I like your questions (Oh, re: the bathing, AFAIK, both...in the Toure book he says sometimes they just got sent home afterwards. Can you imagine? I would lose my damn mind).

CatB said:

BillieBalloon said:

Prince doesnt strike me as someone who sat around reflecting on why he made the decisions he did.

This.

I agree.

starkitty said:

No disrespect- who is CatB?

CatB was generous enough to share her experience of meeting P.

Scroll back in this thread for the link.

Cat's good people.

paisleypearl said:

1Sasha said:

Paisleypearl, I have almost the same list of questions. I would add did anyone ever confront him on how he conducted his personal life? I am sure that most people who might have were terminated from his life, but someone at some time must have pierced that veil. Did anyone around him in the last six months of his life do anything after noticing his deteriorating physical condition? His mental condition since the early 90s has been a question for me, but the past couple of years ... What happened?

There are actually people who will argue that he didn't look sick at all in his last months, so the people who COULD have helped him just jump on that bandwagon of denial. What answers did his girlfriend or wife get when she asked him Why do you keep cheating on me??? But I think I'm freaking people out with my questions, and if so I apologize.

I loved all your questions..... Just want the answers and there's nowhere to get them now.

LBrent said:

IMO asking these questions isn't being nosey at all. I just think we are all trying to process this huge, unnecessary loss of an extraordinary person. Maybe we are trying to fit together the puzzle pieces so we can move on to final acceptance. Ultimately, he lived and died alone - alone like the 13-year-old boy kicked to the curb by the two people who should have loved him unconditionally all those years ago.

[Edited 2/3/17 15:09pm]

starkitty said:

LBrent said:

CatB was generous enough to share her experience of meeting P.

Scroll back in this thread for the link.

Cat's good people.

So hard to see user names on a phone! I think I found the story of CatB meeting him after an award show but why are people asking her (or you, cat, if you see this) such intimate questions?

I'll just go have a seat in the corner since this question doesn't concern me...