RODSERLING said:

laurarichardson said:

djThunderfunk said:

You seem to think that because Prince getting ownership to his masters back means that WB does not still have access to them. Also, IIRC, that deal included WB having rights to distribution.

As for Moonbeam Levels, I'm not saying Prince didn't approve of that song, I'm saying he didn't agree to Head & Sexy MF. Furthermore, since the copy of Moonbeam Levels seems to be from the same source as the most recent bootleg copy, many fans speculate that WB didn't actually have the master to that one anyway.

As for your last sentence...

That is HILARIOUS coming from you particularly.
I disagree with your comments and I am debating them with my own, as happens in these forums.

You won't prove your opinions right or mine are wrong by claiming my motivations for arguing are because I like to argue.

--I do need to prove my opinion because it is opinion. You are speaking as if you were in the room when the master negotiation was taking place. Are you Phaedra? You have know more knowledge about that deal other than the press release we all read. You have no actual knowledge about how Prince felt about his risqué songs at the end of his life. I gave you examples and his own statements to back up my theory. If you want to think the WB is still in control go ahead and knock yourself. [Edited 1/5/17 8:54am]

Neither of us have KNOWLEDGE about how he felt about those songs when he died.

We do have knowledge about how he felt about including Sexy MF on a compilation in 2006 when he had it removed from Ultimate. We have WB saying he approved 4Ever's tracklisting. You argue that his struggles with celebacy and a report of him drinking indicates that he was softening his JW stance and had changed his mind. I argue that according to all he still identified as a JW at the time of his death and that there is no indication that he had changed his mind about including such songs on compilations.

This isn't about KNOWLEDGE, it's about BELIEF. You believe that WB is telling the truth because you believe Prince was sliding away from JW. I believe there is nothing to indicate that he was suddenly willing to include those songs. This is perfectly okay, disagreement is allowed.

djThunderfunk said:

RODSERLING said:

So, we agree about almost everything. Maybe the way of telling it differs.

In the entertainment industry, nothing is really ever cancelled, because it can still be released one day. WB will never say "this is cancelled".

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PURPLE RAIN deluxe could still be released in 2018 or 2019, under a form or another. But the hip is gone, and if they miss the first anniversary of his death, the commercial potential will be less and less appealing, so the content and the promotion will be less interesting.

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4EVER also revealed for sure that despite his death, despite promotion and ads on tv, radio, etc. It's hard to sell a prince album to a non anglo-saxon consumer.

We do agree on alot. That's cool...

I disagree on that last paragraph though. In my opinion, all 4EVER revealed is that it's hard to sell a Prince compilation that is inferior to what's already available (The Hits/The B-Sides) if only one new track is offered. Too many fans will opt to buy the track only or pirate the collection if they don't think it offers enough of value. (Not me. I bought it.)

This. I have all of these songs already. I'll just buy the song.

Live music. They need to release a live album. And not just from his heyday. From all his eras, please, to anyway who is listening.

djThunderfunk said:

laurarichardson said:

djThunderfunk said: --I do need to prove my opinion because it is opinion. You are speaking as if you were in the room when the master negotiation was taking place. Are you Phaedra? You have know more knowledge about that deal other than the press release we all read. You have no actual knowledge about how Prince felt about his risqué songs at the end of his life. I gave you examples and his own statements to back up my theory. If you want to think the WB is still in control go ahead and knock yourself. [Edited 1/5/17 8:54am]

Neither of us have KNOWLEDGE about how he felt about those songs when he died.

We do have knowledge about how he felt about including Sexy MF on a compilation in 2006 when he had it removed from Ultimate. We have WB saying he approved 4Ever's tracklisting. You argue that his struggles with celebacy and a report of him drinking indicates that he was softening his JW stance and had changed his mind. I argue that according to all he still identified as a JW at the time of his death and that there is no indication that he had changed his mind about including such songs on compilations.

This isn't about KNOWLEDGE, it's about BELIEF. You believe that WB is telling the truth because you believe Prince was sliding away from JW. I believe there is nothing to indicate that he was suddenly willing to include those songs. This is perfectly okay, disagreement is allowed.

I am on a FB group where people were commenting on P and his feelings about the JW faith towards the end of his life...Apparently, he had started referring to God / Jesus again, as opposed to Jehovah and, when asked, his family said although he hadn't recounced Witnessing (he was still attending meetings etc) he was also embracing former Christian beliefs as well as exploring others (third eye, chakras, etc).

Dibblekins said:

Dibblekins said:

djThunderfunk said:

Neither of us have KNOWLEDGE about how he felt about those songs when he died.

We do have knowledge about how he felt about including Sexy MF on a compilation in 2006 when he had it removed from Ultimate. We have WB saying he approved 4Ever's tracklisting. You argue that his struggles with celebacy and a report of him drinking indicates that he was softening his JW stance and had changed his mind. I argue that according to all he still identified as a JW at the time of his death and that there is no indication that he had changed his mind about including such songs on compilations.

This isn't about KNOWLEDGE, it's about BELIEF. You believe that WB is telling the truth because you believe Prince was sliding away from JW. I believe there is nothing to indicate that he was suddenly willing to include those songs. This is perfectly okay, disagreement is allowed.

I am on a FB group where people were commenting on P and his feelings about the JW faith towards the end of his life...Apparently, he had started referring to God / Jesus again, as opposed to Jehovah and, when asked, his family said although he hadn't recounced Witnessing (he was still attending meetings etc) he was also embracing former Christian beliefs as well as exploring others (third eye, chakras, etc).

Great! It's still a stretch to go from this to believing he changed his stance about including Sexy MF on a compilation.

I wish it were true. I was hoping for that day to come. I just don't believe that he had yet changed so much to have approved that.

We've veered off-topic anyway. Purple Rain reissue. 2017. Probably in April.

djThunderfunk said:

djThunderfunk said:

Releasing the expanded Purple Rain reissue in April isn't tacky. It makes the most sense in terms of maximising press coverage for it, tying it in with the anniversary of his passing. I'm sure we'd rather see this re-release being promoted more actively than 4Ever - so I don't quite understand any issues that a Prince fan would have with this.

And until issues with the estate are sorted out which will take some time, I doubt we'll see any other releases with unreleased material. So people may as well leak what they have

jjam said:

Releasing the expanded Purple Rain reissue in April isn't tacky. It makes the most sense in terms of maximising press coverage for it, tying it in with the anniversary of his passing.

I'd agree. April cannot be off limits in terms of album releases just because that's when he died. People would have a similar "they're doing it for the money" if everything was released in June. Purple Rain is a summer album, so May, June, July would be cool for that reason, too.

RODSERLING said:

WB has not even the right to reprint post 1993 albums, even not in digital or vynile format !

No need for us to have the same discussion over and over again but I'll just point out for others that as far as I'm concerned this is just a theory and isn't backed-up by anything factual.

According to some sources, Prince never sign anything since 1998, even for the Musicology tour, not even for the Tidal deal.

I seriously doubt BMG, Universal or Sony would have released anything without serious paperwork. This is like very much sci-fi. However I don't know and I've heard the same rumors as u.

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If it was like I suspect it an oral agreement over the PR deluxe deal, that explains a lot about why WB never forced him to give them unreleased material.

Prince thought, as usual, that WB didn't respected their part of the "contract" with the promotion of AOA / PLEC.

So he gave them the "same album, the same content, but remastered" in Prince's own words.

Please do not misquote. Prince only said "Same album, just state-of-the-art sound" (admitting the quote is exact since interviews couldn't be recorded). This doesn't clearly state that there wouldn't have beeen any additional bonus material. i'll admit the quote is ambiguous and that it could mean that, but it can easily be misinterpreted: there is no reason Prince should have been excited about throwing a couple of outtakes alonside the album and b-sides: in the end the core of the release would still have been something that would already have been released.

RODSERLING said:

laurarichardson said:

4ever did not do well because people had already gone out and brought a whole bunch of stuff after he died. The market had dried up and WB just put it out because they could. You simply do not need 4 Greatest hits packages.

Of course, but the non anglo saxon market doesn't care about Prince, dead or not.

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For instance, TVBO sold only 120.000 in France between 2001 and 2015 (!) while it sold 600.000 in the UK. After his death, TVBO sold only 20.000 in France, while it sold 160.000 in the UK.

Clearly, in France 4EVER could have had a shot, especially with the promotion campaign it had there.

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After his death, Prince sold 75 % of his sales in the Uk and US alone.

That might be because French people have virtually stopped buying records since the mid 2000's. We have no efficient law against illegal downloads and everyone is doing it. Save for a few friends who do some DJing and still buy LP's and maybe 2 others who still like having physical objects (both of them Prince fans BTW), I don't know a soul who has purchased an album in a decade, and I know a lot of people. I do not know what the situation is like in UK but I know Germans for example have more trouble with illegal downlodings (fines and stuff).

RODSERLING said:

According to some sources, Prince never sign anything since 1998, even for the Musicology tour, not even for the Tidal deal.

.

There is NO WAY that the recent WBR deal didn't involve paperwork.

djThunderfunk said:

laurarichardson said:

4ever did not do well because people had already gone out and brought a whole bunch of stuff after he died. The market had dried up and WB just put it out because they could. You simply do not need 4 Greatest hits packages.

I agree with the bolded but record companies do not. Pick almost any legacy artist and count how many compilations they have. I promise that 4Ever is not the last time we'll get a Prince compilation album.

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There was a new Bowie compilation in 2016 which was wildly inferior to one released a mere two years earlier.

.

Hell, just look at the insane amount of Bowie compilations. Wikipedia has grouped them by decade, that's how many there are...

laurarichardson said:

BartVanHemelen said:

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You're making shit up again.

I know what I read and they last time I looked January is in the first quarter.

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You continue to make shit up. Nothing ever said January 2017. Nothing ever said first quarter. All said "early 2017".

BartVanHemelen said:

djThunderfunk said:

I agree with the bolded but record companies do not. Pick almost any legacy artist and count how many compilations they have. I promise that 4Ever is not the last time we'll get a Prince compilation album.

.

There was a new Bowie compilation in 2016 which was wildly inferior to one released a mere two years earlier.

.

Hell, just look at the insane amount of Bowie compilations. Wikipedia has grouped them by decade, that's how many there are...

The new Bowie compilation contains 2 tracks from BLACKSTAR, like an update.

4EVER is not even an update of Prince's hits.

databank said:

RODSERLING said:

WB has not even the right to reprint post 1993 albums, even not in digital or vynile format !

No need for us to have the same discussion over and over again but I'll just point out for others that as far as I'm concerned this is just a theory and isn't backed-up by anything factual.

The fact is that you still can't buy since more than 20 years COME, BLACK ALBUM, GOLD, CHAOS...neither physically, nor digitally, nor in vinyle.

It would cost them nothing to sell them at least digitally.

The same could be said of Musicology for Sony, 3121 for Universal, etc.

RODSERLING said:

databank said:

The fact is that you still can't buy since more than 20 years COME, BLACK ALBUM, GOLD, CHAOS...neither physically, nor digitally, nor in vinyle.

It would cost them nothing to sell them at least digitally.

The same could be said of Musicology for Sony, 3121 for Universal, etc.

TGE is available digitally.

There's no way they won't release it. Prince was the #1 selling artist of 2016, albeit for a horrible reason, but still the best seller. I can see the execs at WB at this minute, their eyes have turned into dollar signs ( $ ) ( $ ) like in the cartoons. They're probably just trying to find a way to maximize the cash, or getting the deal set with the estate. Even if it's reissued with the b-sides and remixes on the 2nd disc, they're gonna milk it.

I don't blame you for asking so early in the year because they need to bring it on so I'll have something different to listen to. There's certainly nothing new from any other artists to look forward to.

Doozer said:

Four pages of made-up crap.

Pretty much.

Doesn't matter what Prince thought about PR reissue. He's dead, without a will (which could have said something like "under no circumstances shall X ever be released, I direct my executor to destroy/erase all of Y, and Z shall be released no sooner than 10 years after I die"). Authority and decisions about any assets (including recordings) are now up to the estate.

NouveauDance said:

leecaldon said:

RODSERLING said:

The fact is that you still can't buy since more than 20 years COME, BLACK ALBUM, GOLD, CHAOS...neither physically, nor digitally, nor in vinyle.

It would cost them nothing to sell them at least digitally.

The same could be said of Musicology for Sony, 3121 for Universal, etc.

TGE is available digitally.

Is it outseide of Tidal?

RODSERLING said:

databank said:

The fact is that you still can't buy since more than 20 years COME, BLACK ALBUM, GOLD, CHAOS...neither physically, nor digitally, nor in vinyle.

It would cost them nothing to sell them at least digitally.

The same could be said of Musicology for Sony, 3121 for Universal, etc.

If you knew how many hundeds of albums owned by the majors, some by relatively well known acts, have been out of print for decades, even digitally... It's simply too much to handle. Those post 93 albums sold under the million, which was pretty low by Prince's standards at the time, we could simply assume they did not represented a priority for WB. Besides, Come and TVOF4S are on iTunes.

The only album that was subject to a specific contract was TBA, and yes that one may not be reprintable. But given that Come, TGE, C&D and TVOF4S were compulsory for Prince to handle I fail to see why WB would have agreed on any such thing, particularly if they weren't gonna give the masters back to Prince.

.

Now I can't prove you wrong and you can't prove me wrong.

But I maintain that it cannot rationally be stated for a fact that WB can't when it's just possible that WB wouldn't. You can say "it's likely" if you will, but not "it is".

RODSERLING said:

WB has not even the right to reprint post 1993 albums.

WB doesn't need Prince's permission. The Estate (family), grants the permissions now and you'd better believe they want to pay that tax bill so they themselves can start getting paid.

leecaldon said:

RODSERLING said:

The fact is that you still can't buy since more than 20 years COME, BLACK ALBUM, GOLD, CHAOS...neither physically, nor digitally, nor in vinyle.

It would cost them nothing to sell them at least digitally.

The same could be said of Musicology for Sony, 3121 for Universal, etc.

TGE is available digitally.

Where ? Because on amazon it's not on it. But you can buy the album for 750 e

databank said:

RODSERLING said:

The fact is that you still can't buy since more than 20 years COME, BLACK ALBUM, GOLD, CHAOS...neither physically, nor digitally, nor in vinyle.

It would cost them nothing to sell them at least digitally.

The same could be said of Musicology for Sony, 3121 for Universal, etc.

If you knew how many hundeds of albums owned by the majors, some by relatively well known acts, have been out of print for decades, even digitally... It's simply too much to handle. Those post 93 albums sold under the million, which was pretty low by Prince's standards at the time, we could simply assume they did not represented a priority for WB. Besides, Come and TVOF4S are on iTunes.

The only album that was subject to a specific contract was TBA, and yes that one may not be reprintable. But given that Come, TGE, C&D and TVOF4S were compulsory for Prince to handle I fail to see why WB would have agreed on any such thing, particularly if they weren't gonna give the masters back to Prince.

.

Now I can't prove you wrong and you can't prove me wrong.

But I maintain that it cannot rationally be stated for a fact that WB can't when it's just possible that WB wouldn't. You can say "it's likely" if you will, but not "it is".

Quote me an album from an artist who sold 200 millions record worldwide (albums + singles) that is not downloadable on amazon ? Especially after being the #1 artist of the year ?

BartVanHemelen said:

RODSERLING said: