Prince in his final years; getting older and older than the 21 year old girls he always surrounded himself with; his friends who were almost all employees on his pay-roll; or just alone late at night in Paisley Park, did strike me as the image of a lonely man. I think he made choices that put his art above personal relationships many years ago.

I do think he was true to himself though, for better and for worse, and that's something to be admired. I agree he had mellowed a lot in the last 10 years, it reminds me of the stories of the last decade of Miles Davis life, where Miles was just happy to be playing music and not constantly raging as he tried to change the world.

I think it was possible Prince was both happy to be playing music and a bit lonely that he was out where he was, at an almost existential level, on his own, you know? None of us know for sure, and i'm suspicious of anyone who thinks they can speak for him, happiness is hard to find for everyone.

The Grammy's could've saw to it to at least nominate "1000 Hugs and Kisses" for best R&B something!

Valid Points. But I ask this--Prince being so private, how do we know if he didn't have friends not on his payroll? After all, those not on his payroll would presumably not be musicians and therefore have no reason to be in the media. And did he pay so well that people like Kim Berry stayed with him for 25 years?

He had other celebrity friends (casual friends presumably) whom he never paid obviously. the problem might also be that music was always the avenue he used to connect to people. Therefore he is going to be working with musicans (who are of course going to need to be paid). Sort of a conundrum in a way.

As for 21 years olds, that is slightly exagerrated. There were middle aged and married women who worked for him and he seemed to be getting along with their husbands. Andy Allos existed of course -- not denying it.

jaawwnn said:

Prince in his final years; getting older and older than the 21 year old girls he always surrounded himself with; his friends who were almost all employees on his pay-roll; or just alone late at night in Paisley Park, did strike me as the image of a lonely man. I think he made choices that put his art above personal relationships many years ago.

I do think he was true to himself though, for better and for worse, and that's something to be admired. I agree he had mellowed a lot in the last 10 years, it reminds me of the stories of the last decade of Miles Davis life, where Miles was just happy to be playing music and not constantly raging as he tried to change the world.

I think it was possible Prince was both happy to be playing music and a bit lonely that he was out where he was, at an almost existential level, on his own, you know? None of us know for sure, and i'm suspicious of anyone who thinks they can speak for him, happiness is hard to find for everyone.

purplerabbithole said:

Valid Points. But I ask this--Prince being so private, how do we know if he didn't have friends not on his payroll? After all, those not on his payroll would presumably not be musicians and therefore have no reason to be in the media. And did he pay so well that people like Kim Berry stayed with him for 25 years?

Well we don't but based on what people say he wasn't one to just call and hang more than maybe once a decade unless it was feeding his art. I only have that to go on.

I'd imagine people stayed with him because they liked him and they liked the job. There are some disgruntled ex-employees but others seemed to get on just fine. I'm not saying he was a bad boss, but a boss is still a boss, there's a power dynamic.

He had other celebrity friends (casual friends presumably) whom he never paid obviously. the problem might also be that music was always the avenue he used to connect to people. Therefore he is going to be working with musicans (who are of course going to need to be paid). Sort of a conundrum in a way.

I'd be interested in what his friendship with Larry Graham and Chaka Khan and other older people was like, people who weren't just worshipping him and the chances he gave them and weren't artists in their early-twenties he was mentoring. We'll probably never know aside from the occasional tidbit.

As for 21 years olds, that is slightly exagerrated. There were middle aged and married women who worked for him and he seemed to be getting along with their husbands. Andy Allos existed of course -- not denying it.

No end of them it seems! I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't sleeping with them, he just loved the power trip of being worshipped. Mr. "single, sexy and celibate"

[Edited 12/6/16 21:18pm]

I really like Andy though at least what she appears to be. She seems to be genuinely talented independent and thoughtful. There are better musicians out there technically but she seems to have depth and intelligence...maybe I am wrong.

I think he was a massive flirt like that Maya lady said (that photographer who worked for Prince for a year).

jaawwnn said:

purplerabbithole said:

Valid Points. But I ask this--Prince being so private, how do we know if he didn't have friends not on his payroll? After all, those not on his payroll would presumably not be musicians and therefore have no reason to be in the media. And did he pay so well that people like Kim Berry stayed with him for 25 years?

Well we don't but based on what people say he wasn't one to just call and hang more than maybe once a decade unless it was feeding his art. I only have that to go on.

I'd imagine people stayed with him because they liked him and they liked the job. There are some disgruntled ex-employees but others seemed to get on just fine. I'm not saying he was a bad boss, but a boss is still a boss, there's a power dynamic.

I'd be interested in what his friendship with Larry Graham and Chaka Khan and other older people was like, people who weren't just worshipping him and the chances he gave them and weren't artists in their early-twenties he was mentoring. We'll probably never know aside from the occasional tidbit.

As for 21 years olds, that is slightly exagerrated. There were middle aged and married women who worked for him and he seemed to be getting along with their husbands. Andy Allos existed of course -- not denying it.

No end of them it seems! I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't sleeping with them, he just loved the power trip of being worshipped. Mr. "single, sexy and celibate"

[Edited 12/6/16 21:18pm]

[Edited 12/6/16 21:26pm]

Ah I have no problem with Andy, sure she was in the band! I meant his general harem hangers-on. The "photographers" and "film-makers" and the like that he found on twitter and youtube.

[Edited 12/6/16 21:27pm]

I don't understand how calling someone a narcissistic control freak and nostalgia act who built a tacky shrine to himself and who is in artistic decline isn't an insult. But, okay.

NorthC said:

I don't really see what's the problem here. The article is about one man's visit to PP. Nothing more, nothing less. Nowhere is the writer trying to diminish Prince's legacy. Okay, he calls Prince a narcissistic control freak and a nostalgia act, but he's hardly the first one to do that. Nothing to get upset about. [Edited 12/7/16 2:58am]

purplerabbithole said:

In response to your rabbit hole insult, I forgot I was the only person on his page passionate about Prince.

Agreeing with someone who not only calls this man narcissistic and controlling but also fails to bring up anything good about him---it isn't a leap to believe you are not fond of the man being described. It's called inferring, not leaping.

Personally, I don't like people whose predominant and seemingly only noticable traits are narcissism and control. And I know I am probably not alone in thinking that. Most people would like someone in spite of those (hopefully infrequent) traits and because they had redeemable traits as well. .

.

airth said:

I see. You must be the rabbit living in that purple hole because you just took a remarkable leap in logic. You think his life was sad. I think it was joyous. Why have regrets? Yes, he faced some things none of us would choose to face, but he also lived the life he wanted to live.

It seems highly unlikely that I would have wasted the last 34 years of my life putting my time, money and energy into Prince if I held any kind of feelings of hate, or even lack of fondness, towards him. I actually believe his narcissism and controlling nature both significantly contributed to his success. You would be mistaken, though, if you were to think that these characteristics were the only ones I attributed to Prince. In other words, I do exactly what you state: love, admire and respect him and his music despite any potential flaws he may have had.

You dont have to prove your love.And yes your allowed to speak free of your feelings.Back in april it was said a lot of things about prince would start surfacing.I think we all go back and forth on wanting to know and not know.What to believe and not what to believe.Defend or not defend.Some say sad because he died alone What lets me know that he was heaven sent was the way he helped anyone in need and didn't attach his name.

Militant said:

It's one guy's article in one city.

Hearing just ONE Prince song on the radio, to a new person unfamiliar with his work, is worth 100,000 newspaper articles.

And Prince knew that. And just hearing that one song will set people off down the rabbit hole that ends up where we've all been for years - the understanding that he was without peer. That he musically towered above everybody.

Prince doesn't need awards, or praise from random-ass journalists. Even Paisley Park the museum is simply an addendum to his life's work and legacy.

The music will always speak, and I hear and see his influence all over the place.

You don't need to feel bummed out. Prince's career was always about peaks and valleys. He was a divisive person. One year you'd get Purple Rain and another year you'd get 3 Chains O' Gold. One year you'd get N.E.W.S pushing out a few thousand copies and the next year you might get Musicology and the highest grossing tour of the year.

So it's kind of apt that in death things are the same. Right now, you feel sad about his legacy, but who knows - in a few months time when Purple Rain Deluxe comes out, perhaps WB will put a ton of money behind it and you'll be seeing it everywhere, and many many new people will be discovering Prince for the first time.

Prince's legacy is a complex thing. But right now you're just cherry picking a few things. Ultimately who the fuck cares about the 2017 Grammy Awards? Who the fuck cares about some random journo in Chicago? These things don't matter.

The Celebration is sold out. Lots of people are going to Paisley and enjoying it. Purple Rain deluxe is coming.

If you feel like his life was sad, that sounds like projection. The man is one of the most iconic and celebrated artists of all time. He was worth millions of dollars for basically his entire life, had the freedom to do what he wanted, slept with probably hundreds of beautiful women, worked with dozens of amazing musicians, saw and performed in a huge chunk of the world, fought and won some huge battles with the system, donated tens of millions to charities and saw the impact that that had..............I mean, what else can you really ask for in life? It's sad that he didn't get to have a family, it's sad that neither of his marriages lasted and it's sad that he succumbed to the disease of addiction that has claimed so many lives.

But let's not paint his life as a tragic figure. The man was worshipped by millions, and on his less humble days - he fucking RELISHED that. Trust me. I met him. And the man was happy.

If you want to talk about tragic figures, people that were mistreated by everyone, people that desperately needed help and didn't get it, people whose legacy is still getting attacked and torn up after death, take a look at the man who people see as Prince's biggest rival.

As for that lame word, "relevance". Well - they justified that lame-ass Madonna tribute by saying she was relevant, and that folks like Sheila E weren't. Compare Madonna's tribute to Sheila's, and we can talk about how relevance means jack.


THANK YOU...stopped crying.

rogifan said:

If you're sad just listen to this interview with Prince's piano player Cassie O'Neal. It will warm your heart and put a smile on your face. 💜 http://abcnews.go.com/Ent...d=38619160

it's crazy but i never heard of her, i've always kept up on Prince's music but never was one of these fans who saw many live shows. Great interview but she's being revisionist, I'm sure that her experience of the mature Prince and his attituce about MJ is accurate, she obviously didn't know about his jibes from the 80's. Both men had a great competition going on.

purplerabbithole said:

I don't understand how calling someone a narcissistic control freak and nostalgia act who built a tacky shrine to himself and who is in artistic decline isn't an insult. But, okay.

NorthC said:

I don't really see what's the problem here. The article is about one man's visit to PP. Nothing more, nothing less. Nowhere is the writer trying to diminish Prince's legacy. Okay, he calls Prince a narcissistic control freak and a nostalgia act, but he's hardly the first one to do that. Nothing to get upset about. [Edited 12/7/16 2:58am]

i don't think i've gotten upset over a Prince article since the 80's, there was thins one writer, I think it was in Creem magazine but not sure, anyway, he just picked the man apart, it was vicious. He ridiculed his falsetto and his singing abiilities, saying he didn't sing in his real voice until his fifth album, saying he hit himself in the mouth with the mic in the ama performance and how james brown had never done anything that clumsy, saying none of his songs were any good except for little red corvette. Usually, when guys have an agenda that hard core, it's usually because they love another artist way more and for some reason, take anyone else shining as a threat. MJ had to deal with a lot of negativity because he was a threat to Elvis and the Beatles with his success, some critics never forgave him for that.

PeteSilas said:

@ Christopher Borrelli.

rogifan said:

PeteSilas said:

rogifan said:

If you're sad just listen to this interview with Prince's piano player Cassie O'Neal. It will warm your heart and put a smile on your face. 💜 http://abcnews.go.com/Ent...d=38619160

it's crazy but i never heard of her, i've always kept up on Prince's music but never was one of these fans who saw many live shows. Great interview but she's being revisionist, I'm sure that her experience of the mature Prince and his attituce about MJ is accurate, she obviously didn't know about his jibes from the 80's. Both men had a great competition going on.

I'll admit I didn't focus much on the MJ portion of her interview as I don't have much interest in MJ.

Opinions are like A**holes and sometimes they stink.

If there is anything to be sad about, it's that Paisley Park seems to have been rushed into a museum with more focus on our cash than an actual tribute to the man. That being said, I try not to let articles and/or writers bother me. And I think ever since I became a Prince fan, I have tried not to let the fact that Prince may have been an unlikeable person, bother me. I would have cut off my right arm to be him. I hope someone, maybe one of his real fans, writes a book about him one day titled, "The Fucked Up Genius of Prince".

[Edited 12/7/16 14:09pm]

3rdeyedude said:

If there is anything to be sad about, it's that Paisley Park seems to have been rushed into a museum with more focus on our cash than an actual tribute to the man. That being said, I try not to let articles and/or writers bother me. And I think ever since I became a Prince fan, I have tried not to let the fact that Prince may have been an unlikeable person, bother me. I would have cut off my right arm to be him. I hope someone, maybe one of his real fans, writes a book about him one day titled, "The Fucked Up Genius of Prince".

[Edited 12/7/16 14:09pm]

Well, he was a human being with flaws, after all, and not a saint. He was probably loved and resented in equal proportions like most people...

as long as they get things right, i don't mind criticism but too often, my heroes come under the gun for someone else's little agenda. Fact is, honest writing is rare. People are very suggestible so ideas get repeated, take root and then perpetuate forever. With Prince, those ideas are that he was in a creative decline since the 80's, that he was a rancid human being, if those are repeated and suggested enough, most people will believe it whether it's true or not. Many people believe Elvis was nothing but a junkie after the 50's and that he didn't do anything after that, they haven't even listened for themselves to some of the fine work he did all the way up to his death. People on average are gullible and stupid though and too lazy to check things out for themselves.

Just like MJ, I think the author needs some bass in his face:

Prince needs a Ken Burns type multi episode documentary and then a huge radio retrospective on NPR, to be jumpstarted. But that will be for the grown folks not the kids.

You do realize that fretting about such things changes nothing. Right?

Of course, I do...that's exactly why it was sad.

I do not know what gender you are. But often the men I know (I am a female) act like its so easy to control one's feelings. I am not saying its reasonable to fret over things one can not change; I am saying that watching things happen that you wish someone would or could have changed gives you a weird feeling of helplessness that makes it even worse

I am not fretting today like yesterday but I always was cognizant of the inability to change a lot of things in life. I am realistic despite my tendency to be a bit too sensitive.

Genesia said:

You do realize that fretting about such things changes nothing. Right?

no she's a woman who just like's minimizing everything. I don't like negative journalism either but it doesn't ruin my day. I just think the misinformation spread doesn't do anyone any good, and I'm talking mainly the people who might want to learn from the lives of great men.

Militant said:

It's one guy's article in one city.

Hearing just ONE Prince song on the radio, to a new person unfamiliar with his work, is worth 100,000 newspaper articles.

And Prince knew that. And just hearing that one song will set people off down the rabbit hole that ends up where we've all been for years - the understanding that he was without peer. That he musically towered above everybody.

Prince doesn't need awards, or praise from random-ass journalists. Even Paisley Park the museum is simply an addendum to his life's work and legacy.

The music will always speak, and I hear and see his influence all over the place.

You don't need to feel bummed out. Prince's career was always about peaks and valleys. He was a divisive person. One year you'd get Purple Rain and another year you'd get 3 Chains O' Gold. One year you'd get N.E.W.S pushing out a few thousand copies and the next year you might get Musicology and the highest grossing tour of the year.

So it's kind of apt that in death things are the same. Right now, you feel sad about his legacy, but who knows - in a few months time when Purple Rain Deluxe comes out, perhaps WB will put a ton of money behind it and you'll be seeing it everywhere, and many many new people will be discovering Prince for the first time.

Prince's legacy is a complex thing. But right now you're just cherry picking a few things. Ultimately who the fuck cares about the 2017 Grammy Awards? Who the fuck cares about some random journo in Chicago? These things don't matter.

The Celebration is sold out. Lots of people are going to Paisley and enjoying it. Purple Rain deluxe is coming.

If you feel like his life was sad, that sounds like projection. The man is one of the most iconic and celebrated artists of all time. He was worth millions of dollars for basically his entire life, had the freedom to do what he wanted, slept with probably hundreds of beautiful women, worked with dozens of amazing musicians, saw and performed in a huge chunk of the world, fought and won some huge battles with the system, donated tens of millions to charities and saw the impact that that had..............I mean, what else can you really ask for in life? It's sad that he didn't get to have a family, it's sad that neither of his marriages lasted and it's sad that he succumbed to the disease of addiction that has claimed so many lives.

But let's not paint his life as a tragic figure. The man was worshipped by millions, and on his less humble days - he fucking RELISHED that. Trust me. I met him. And the man was happy.

If you want to talk about tragic figures, people that were mistreated by everyone, people that desperately needed help and didn't get it, people whose legacy is still getting attacked and torn up after death, take a look at the man who people see as Prince's biggest rival.

As for that lame word, "relevance". Well - they justified that lame-ass Madonna tribute by saying she was relevant, and that folks like Sheila E weren't. Compare Madonna's tribute to Sheila's, and we can talk about how relevance means jack.

Great words Militant! I also felt that he was happy. He also exuded a very palpable inner calm, which was quite amazing, considering he had had such an active evening with two concerts in a row...