warning2all said:

No matter how big Prince was/Is, he could have been a whole lot BIGGER. He played by his rules, but they are not the ways of record companies & the music buying public. Now that he is gone, the Estate and whoever markets The Vault and Catalog will do things as they probably should have been done all along to give the public what it wants and make maximum $$$. He actually did a lot to hurt his brand, popularity, and sales. For better or worse he did it his way, and it's a testament to his talent and the wanting of the public to like him that he was as popular as he was. So kudos to Prince for doing things his way, but that way did a lot to affect his legacy.

>

I think he got scared after Purple Rain and the can't-leave-the-house-without-being-noticed fame that followed.

We can go down the list of thing a "legacy" artist would've done.

Don't release AWTIAD after Purple Rain, and definitely not so soon. That could've been a side project.

No low-budget videos when you can easily work with the best directors in the business.

Single's choices that shouldn't have been.

Using the WB publicity machine for all it's worth a la Madonna (I mean you're already wrapped up in a mutli-year contract. Might as well make the best of it).

But if this had happened we would've missed out on the great music we got so...

Okay valid point about Kim K.. But Beyonce's new album is getting hits and acclaim (and those two things put together are almost a surefire recipe for continued relevance). Prince doesn't need 300 million hits but the low number of hits for some of his best performances is definitely disconcerning.

Ingela said:

^ You're looking at at it wrong when you compare him to a contemporary. Kim Kardashian gets a lot more hits than almost any woman alive today, and it will probably fade on day. She'll eventually get less and less hits as she approaches Prince's age when he died. And she'll die one day and get a mention and again get a lot of attention. Same with Beyoncé. Every generation Puts its focus on its own thing as it's more relevant to them. But the past eventually becomes an interesting dinosaur bone we discover and examine and appreciate. That's how it goes. But it won't make him any less interesting than Beyoncé or Kim K bones when examined by later generations. [Edited 12/3/16 9:53am]

TKO said:

Anyone who thinks his music not being available on spotify, youtube, apple, is not hurting his legacy is delusional.

Agreed.

Anyone who "can't listen to Prince" because his music is not available on spotify, youtube, itunes, is lazy.

BartVanHemelen said:

As a black musician who signed a 360 deal to one of the biggest record labels in the world at the ripe age of 18, Prince had little to no control over his work when he started.

.

This is such bullshit. There was no 360 deal, and Prince had a fuckton of control.

Yeah, that

TKO said:

Anyone who thinks his music not being available on spotify, youtube, apple, is not hurting his legacy is delusional.

Agreed. Applications like these are exactly were young people hear new music. It's criticial for his music to be avaible on these apps, and with TIDAL removing some of his songs it's only hurting his legacy more.

purplerabbithole said:

BartVanHemelen said:

As a black musician who signed a 360 deal to one of the biggest record labels in the world at the ripe age of 18, Prince had little to no control over his work when he started.

.

This is such bullshit. There was no 360 deal, and Prince had a fuckton of control.

Did 360 deals even exist back then?

anangellooksdown said:

Goddess4Real said:

Cool poster, Goddess. Any idea when that was created?

Did he really mentor Mavis Staples? And Larry Graham is an odd omission from the list.

[Edited 12/3/16 10:24am]

leecaldon said:

BartVanHemelen said:

As a black musician who signed a 360 deal to one of the biggest record labels in the world at the ripe age of 18, Prince had little to no control over his work when he started.

.

This is such bullshit. There was no 360 deal, and Prince had a fuckton of control.

*

Prince had control over the "type" of music he wanted to make, but he had no control over the amount of music he could release and how often he could release that music. That is a "proven" issue in his debate with Warner Bros along with, of course, desiring to own his masters. Now, we can argue if any artist should have that control or if it would be sound business sense for any company to allow an artist to control how much of one's music is released and at what rate that music is released. But, for Prince, it seems that how much of his music was released and how often it was released was important for him, even if that may not be important to you, me, or anyone else. So, in this sense, Prince felt that he did not have the control over his music and his career that he desired.

*

Now, it can be argued that Prince did seem to want it both ways. He wanted to control when, how much, and how often he would release music, but he always wanted record companies to pay him a substantial advance for this. That is where one might want to say that Prince was hypocritical or maybe even a bit delusional. Yet, I can only add that it is difficult for some people to understand how the world changes, in all of its aspects. As such, while Prince was a pioneer--as far as "major acts" to embrace the internet, he also seemed unable to focus himself long enough to develop an efficient website that enabled him to release music when he wanted and to the degree/amount and regularity that he wanted. It is the age old conundrum of "I want my freedom, but I want the check from my evil controllers as well." So, the issue of Prince desiring more control is not "bullshit," but one of "why was he never able to accept that with more freedom comes a more responsibly to manage the daily activities of one's business affairs, such as, again, developing an effective online presence that allowed him to release work as he desired and make money?” The answer seems to be that Prince is like the rest of us—good in some areas of life and not so good in other areas of life. Very few of us make all A’s or are successful in every aspect of life. Prince was great at making music, but he was not so great at managing the administrative aspects of that music, especially when it came to marketing it. I, for one, didn’t care because as terrible as he was at marketing his music to the masses, I was able to obtain every song and album he released. There was never an album or song that Prince officially released that I could not obtain. So, in that regard, I have no problem with his business model even if it limited his mass appeal. As someone who was a Prince fan long before Purple Rain and long after it, I seemed to enjoy my fandom most when he was to the side of the mainstream doing his own thang.

*

For me, selfishly, I don’t really give a shit that the next generation doesn’t have as much access to Prince’s music. I’m just a grumpy old man who thinks that most of what passes for music today is bullshit and that most of this generation can’t tell the difference between great music and bullshit so it doesn’t really matter if they had access to Prince’s music. I don’t think that they could appreciate it. Anytime a Janelle Monae is appreciated less than a Nicki Minaj, that tells me everything I need to know about this generation and its ability to appreciate Prince.

This article is ill-informed, and bullshit.

Not to mention INCREDIBLY short-sighted. Wah, kids only use Youtube, they won't hear Prince.

The kids who only get their culture input and music education from YouTube are fucking idiots, who deserve to miss out on the good stuff.

The kids with half a brain will use Youtube as one of THOUSANDS of ways of accessing music. As humans have done for generations, they will think 'I want to know more... I will go deeper'. It's that simple.

Prince's legacy is Prince's legacy. They will come to him, not the other way around. As long as there are kids who are interested in what's good, BEYOND what the coroporations are spoon-feeding them this week, then there will always be kids discovering good music, and that will include Prince.

If there are no kids with that kind of intuituve interest, prepared to use their initiative, then we're fucked anyway and the least of our problems will be who is or isn't listening to Prince.

And streaming services are the listening choice du jour. Everyone's thinking, oh that's it now, people will only ever listen to music via streaming? Oh, like you mean we were only going to buy LPs now, not 78s? We were only going to buy CDs now, not LPS? Give me a break. Shortsighted.

Again, the article is bullshit. Total waste of time.

purplerabbithole said:

if they would release some of those aftershows ..people would start to get the picture..

There was no youtube or internet streaming sites in the time of Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, and yet their music stll exists and their legacy lives on. There were none of these in the times of Hendrix, Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, Robert Johnson, and yet their legacies live on in the hearts and souls of those that carried their music forward and inspired the generations that followed. Prince's legacy is not tied to youtube or internet streaming, it lives on in the hearts and souls of those he touched and inspired with his music. Real music survives, lives on, and is carried forward. Prince's legacy will survive because it lives on within us and all those he has touched and we will carry it forward, whether it be through those that will cover his songs while they are performing a concert, playing it to our children and our children's children, being performed in schools of music and art, being studied during music appreciation and music history. I have no worries about Prince's legacy, it will survive and last for centuries and in the future they will be teaching about him, along side Mozart, Bach, Beethoven. His legacy will survive long after we are gone.

Amen! His music has to be in the clubs, in arenas, streaming, a You Tube channel ... it has to be everywhere. Oh yes, commercials, movies, TV ... It is a different world.

I am going to add something else. His earlier work - including the hits - has to bring the people in. His later work won't do it. Go back to American Bandstand: "It has a good beat and you can dance to it." That is what his legacy needs - DJs have to play his music in clubs around the world.

[Edited 12/3/16 12:12pm]

benni said:

There was no youtube or internet streaming sites in the time of Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, and yet their music stll exists and their legacy lives on. There were none of these in the times of Hendrix, Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, Robert Johnson, and yet their legacies live on in the hearts and souls of those that carried their music forward and inspired the generations that followed. Prince's legacy is not tied to youtube or internet streaming, it lives on in the hearts and souls of those he touched and inspired with his music. Real music survives, lives on, and is carried forward. Prince's legacy will survive because it lives on within us and all those he has touched and we will carry it forward, whether it be through those that will cover his songs while they are performing a concert, playing it to our children and our children's children, being performed in schools of music and art, being studied during music appreciation and music history. I have no worries about Prince's legacy, it will survive and last for centuries and in the future they will be teaching about him, along side Mozart, Bach, Beethoven. His legacy will survive long after we are gone.

benni, how old are you? I grew up when Prince did. I ask about you because I don't think young kids know who Muddy, John Lee, Robert and similar artists are. The Stones just released a blues album that is supposed to be sensational, but their influences were from the 50s and 60s. Those in their teens and twenties aren't going to buy that record; I will. My age group. Prince's influences were from the same time periods as mine, as well as the early 70s. Without some type of saturation, his music will not reach its potential IMO.

1Sasha said:

benni said:

There was no youtube or internet streaming sites in the time of Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, and yet their music stll exists and their legacy lives on. There were none of these in the times of Hendrix, Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, Robert Johnson, and yet their legacies live on in the hearts and souls of those that carried their music forward and inspired the generations that followed. Prince's legacy is not tied to youtube or internet streaming, it lives on in the hearts and souls of those he touched and inspired with his music. Real music survives, lives on, and is carried forward. Prince's legacy will survive because it lives on within us and all those he has touched and we will carry it forward, whether it be through those that will cover his songs while they are performing a concert, playing it to our children and our children's children, being performed in schools of music and art, being studied during music appreciation and music history. I have no worries about Prince's legacy, it will survive and last for centuries and in the future they will be teaching about him, along side Mozart, Bach, Beethoven. His legacy will survive long after we are gone.

benni, how old are you? I grew up when Prince did. I ask about you because I don't think young kids know who Muddy, John Lee, Robert and similar artists are. The Stones just released a blues album that is supposed to be sensational, but their influences were from the 50s and 60s. Those in their teens and twenties aren't going to buy that record; I will. My age group. Prince's influences were from the same time periods as mine, as well as the early 70s. Without some type of saturation, his music will not reach its potential IMO.

1Sasha, I grew up when Prince did, as well, slightly younger than Prince. You might say that young kids don't know who these people are, and for the most part, perhaps that is true; however, having said that, they do teach about some of these people in music appreciation in colleges and universities. I remember studying about them and their influences on music overall and how music grew from their contributions. Again, Prince's legacy will survive and he will be studied for many years to come. They may not buy records, but that does not mean Prince's legacy will not survive. Again, Mozart, Bach, Beethoven lived centuries ago and today we still hear their music being performed in many places. Their legacy survived because of their musical expertise and the beauty of their work. They influenced future artists, who took those influences and music continued to evolve from that. Prince is the most influential artist of our time. His music defined, not just a single generation, but many generations. His music crossed racial, economical, religious boundaries to reach so many people. There are still young teenagers that are finding prince.org today, because they did find his music, heard it, and decided to explore his music and get to know our man. Real music doesn't die Sasha, it never has, it evolves. And what potential? Without Prince here to perform and create more music, his music is at it's potential. But we are not talking about potential, we are not talking about mass marketing and mass production and mass saturation, we are talking about his legacy and his legacy will survive.

Completely agree with Benni on this one.

Rimshottbob said:

BartVanHemelen said:

As a black musician who signed a 360 deal to one of the biggest record labels in the world at the ripe age of 18, Prince had little to no control over his work when he started.

.

This is such bullshit. There was no 360 deal, and Prince had a fuckton of control.

Thank you, Bart. That was my initial response to that sentence too. As to the rest - I think only history will tell. WB and the family will put out music in much the same way the Reconrd Companies and families of other musicians who have died have done so. Time will be the main factor, once everything is put in order.

anangellooksdown said:

Goddess4Real said:

Cool poster, Goddess. Any idea when that was created?

I came across it on the Genius Homepage while reading some articles http://genius.com/a/infog...-of-prince

[Edited 12/3/16 18:00pm]

Noodled24 said:

purplerabbithole said:

Maybe you can if you do this... Give everyone a taste for his music by making it super accessible and highly promoted for a short period of time. And once they get a taste for it, then make it only accessible by paying for it. Even if people do rip off his music in that short period of time, at least a fan base might be built up.

Kind of like how Disney puts out limited edition DVD's of classic movies that used to be easily accessible (like Bambi). The fan base was already there.

Maybe, but it'd be impossible (not to mention annoying) if they put it all out there. Then retracted it all... peoples playlists going missing etc. They'd have to do it every couple of years.

I do think his music videos should be on Youtube/Vevo etc. He has many more than people realise and they're never going to generate any real cash. I can't think of a reason not to have them available.

Or...

You make short snippets of his songs / videos available on streaming / online forums, thereby giving people just enough of a taster of all of his material to want to buy it 'properly'.

SimonCharles said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

This is such bullshit. There was no 360 deal, and Prince had a fuckton of control.

Thank you, Bart. That was my initial response to that sentence too. As to the rest - I think only history will tell. WB and the family will put out music in much the same way the Reconrd Companies and families of other musicians who have died have done so. Time will be the main factor, once everything is put in order.

Let's not get carried away. WBR were good with Prince in the early days, and in return over that decade he made them hundreds of millions of dollars... something his music continues to do.

WBR didn't mind telling Prince his 3CD set had to be cut down to 2 CDs. WBR weren't shy about wanting hit singles.. and videos for singles although it was WBR who passed on the Big Daddy Kane version of Batdance. By the late 80s & early 90s they weren't exactly as hands off as they'd been in the early days.

They bitched about Prince releasing too much music, then proceeded to release FIVE CDs in a 2 year period.

TKO said:

Anyone who thinks his music not being available on spotify, youtube, apple, is not hurting his legacy is delusional.

I agree...

GET IT OUT THERE NOW..

1725topp said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

This is such bullshit. There was no 360 deal, and Prince had a fuckton of control.

*

Prince had control over the "type" of music he wanted to make, but he had no control over the amount of music he could release and how often he could release that music.

.

He got waaaay more leeway than any comparable artist. Dude ate up the budget for three records on his first and WBR didn't blink. Dude wanted a bunch of demo-like songs released (one about incest) and WBR did so. Dude retracted an album mere days before release and WBR obliged. Etc.

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Hell, just look at the records by The Time and Sheila E etc.

.

But, for Prince, it seems that how much of his music was released and how often it was released was important for him, even if that may not be important to you, me, or anyone else. So, in this sense, Prince felt that he did not have the control over his music and his career that he desired.

.

This is an incredibly juvenile way to look at A MILLION DOLLAR BUSINESS.

.

*

So, the issue of Prince desiring more control is not "bullshit,"

.

Yes it was. He boasted about the $100 million deal (which was a lie HE promoted in his press release, and WBR were upset at that BS.) Hell, D&P was him showing WBR "look I can be the responsible pop artist you want and make hit records and tour world wide etc." in order to get that huge deal. All that BS about control came after, when he needed a stick to beat a dog. Hell, afterwards he worked with frikking Clive Davis -- how the fuck is that about wanting control?

Why when it comes to Prince everything is doom and gloom? The article is full of crap. As for WBR they let him do what he wanted when he was a up and comer and making hits but when that stoped they wanted to control him. I don't believed WBR leaped on everything Prince brought to them.