Iamtheorg said:

JudasLChrist said:

I think SOTT was a Wendy and Lisa record as well.

Nah because he erased most of their contributions

just because U erase someones contributions doesn't remove the energy and synergy that created it.
Plus they weren't full removed from Strange relationships, and perform on IGBABN and Slow Love
Susannah Melvoin in on Play In the Sunshine Ballad of Dorothy Parker Starfish & Coffee (Rock Hard In A Funky Place) those are just the obvious

My dream band is Bobby Z Dr Fink BrownMark (I love the Mark Andre double bass at that last show though) Dr Fink Lisa Coleman Wendy Melvoin Dez Dickerson Eric Leeds Eddie M Atlanta Bliss Juan Escovedo Cat Jerome( and Kimberly Ann Delfin(dancer from Raspberry Beret video) 4 the 3 dancers)) David Coleman Novi Novog & Suzi Katayama on live strings

OldFriends4Sale said:

donnyenglish said:

Lovesexy the Album was great and is almost universally loved by his hard core fans. SOTT is clearly his most critically aclaimed album and is always at the top of any polls amongst fans. The fact that he made that album after The Revolution, in fact, immediately after The Revolution era really debunks any notion that he lost his creativity after they broke up. In fact, his best live performance and band was immediately after the Revolution broke up.

most hardcore fans I've talked to even here have always expressed a weird reaction to it. From questioning the cover to the intent. I love it too,.

What album are you saying that he made after the Revolution? Lovesexy or SOTT. 95% of the SOTT music was done way before the Revolution was departed ie Dream Factory. The SOTT band did not work on that music outside of Dr Fink Atlanta Bliss & Eric Leeds

Also the fullness of creative energies can pass easily into a few following years.
Again my favorite years and people with Prince are 1978-1989 forever...

Did The Revolution have any input on the SOTT album? If so, which tracks did they help write or play on?

donnyenglish said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

most hardcore fans I've talked to even here have always expressed a weird reaction to it. From questioning the cover to the intent. I love it too,.

What album are you saying that he made after the Revolution? Lovesexy or SOTT. 95% of the SOTT music was done way before the Revolution was departed ie Dream Factory. The SOTT band did not work on that music outside of Dr Fink Atlanta Bliss & Eric Leeds

Also the fullness of creative energies can pass easily into a few following years.
Again my favorite years and people with Prince are 1978-1989 forever...

Did The Revolution have any input on the SOTT album? If so, which tracks did they help write or play on?

we can go into that but

and some of the best Graffiti Bridge tracks (along with Theives in the Temple)
I mean It's Gonna Be a Beautiful Night is the Revolution on the Parade tour...

I love Lovesexy as being a part of that period I love the tour the look etc but the album is never on the high scales of the albums for me, and I do like the album

I know a lot of people don't care for it by musically Rainbow Children hearkens back to a mix of musical style from the 80s period. It sound closest to the 'Prince sound' out of most of his post 1989 albums for me

Wendy and Lisa are very musicians and I am a huge fan of theirs and they inspired me of getting into music scoring and to experiement sounds and music. But I am also a logical thinker and Prince had good creative and added into his music before and after they came along.

Feel like so much of the key to the Revolution stuff was about the Middle Eastern influences (and Clare Fischer strings) they were incorporating. IMO it was more that than any individual contributors that made those albums so unique.

rob1965 said:

paulludvig said:

NouveauDance said:

Duck for cover.

Poorlovelycomputer said:

Those two factors added brought that colour he spoke of SOTT is from the knowledge we have a pieced together double album from 3 projects WB and personnel changes made SOTT what it is like it's been said after 86 no one challenged him to come up with something like ATWIAD or Parade solo prince got lost in grunge and hip hop movements all his musicians were top notch

I loved Parade, but I love 3121 just as much. And I sure as hell did not want anything else like atwiad, but that's just me. I don't consider Prince or any other artist lost for outgrowing one influence in favor of another...they should have that freedom.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Iamtheorg said:

Nah because he erased most of their contributions

just because U erase someones contributions doesn't remove the energy and synergy that created it.

Geezus. Will you please get your tongue off of their clits? lol

come on of4s stop the worship

.

[Edited 10/31/16 14:58pm]

rob1965 said:

He said they were a tight band who he could give songs to rehearse and they would perform them to perfection. But, he wanted to evolve, to have a band he could jam with onstage, a band that could improvise

That quote needs to be taken in context. Prince when he said that was trying to put people's attention on his new album and 3rd Eye Girl. The idea that The Revolution couldn't improvise is absurd, and he knew it.

donnyenglish said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

most hardcore fans I've talked to even here have always expressed a weird reaction to it. From questioning the cover to the intent. I love it too,.

What album are you saying that he made after the Revolution? Lovesexy or SOTT. 95% of the SOTT music was done way before the Revolution was departed ie Dream Factory. The SOTT band did not work on that music outside of Dr Fink Atlanta Bliss & Eric Leeds

Also the fullness of creative energies can pass easily into a few following years.
Again my favorite years and people with Prince are 1978-1989 forever...

Did The Revolution have any input on the SOTT album? If so, which tracks did they help write or play on?

The band played on Slow Love, W&L on Strange Relationship (although burried in the mix). No writing credits for the band on these songs. It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night. Based on a live recording with the Rev. Leeds and Fink got writing credits on this one. That's all.

[Edited 11/1/16 2:42am]

jaypotton said:

paulludvig said:

I think that refers to Strange Relationship (and only that). W&L's contribution was burried in the mix.

Ok I have no idea if quoting from PrinceVault is allowed so this might get snipped but here goes... "In early July 1986, Prince recorded Train for the album, and in mid-July, he recorded The Cross and Sign O' The Times, and revamped the 1982 track I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man to complete the album. The final double LP configuration containing 18 tracks was compiled on 18 July 1986. When Wendy Melvoin and Lisa Coleman told Prince they wanted to leave his band in late July, however, the album was abandoned. Prince instead decided to eliminate most of the Revolution's input on tracks and to expand on the project by incorporating other tracks recorded later in 1986, resulting in the three-disc set Crystal Ball (which eventually was pared down to become Prince's next officially released album, Sign O' The Times). Although many of the tracks were solo recordings by Prince, several include other members of the Revolution. Many of the tracks considered for the Dream Factory album have been released in one form or another. The Ballad Of Dorothy Parker, Strange Relationship, Starfish And Coffee, It, Slow Love, I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man, Sign O' The Times and The Cross were all included on the Sign O' The Times album." I suggest you have a read about Dream Factory and see the different track lists/configurations and you will see just how many songs ended up on SOTT. While Prince no doubt recorded some fully solo (he always did during the Revolution era) it is pretty safe to assume many of the original versions of the songs had the band or some of the band on them.

Not at all. We know who recorded what. Of the songs that ended up on SOTT only Slow Love, Strange Relationship and IGBABN features members of the band. There aren't alternative takes of others songs with the band.

OldFriends4Sale said:

paulludvig said:

I think that refers to Strange Relationship (and only that). W&L's contribution was burried in the mix.

the vibe and flow of music was with the Revolution. So even though it was released after the band was departed, it still came out of the Dream Factory sessions.
Not to mention they the Revolution Susannah were on songs on the SOTT album etc etc etc

But the songs that made the final cut weren't recorded with the band or W&L.

OldFriends4Sale said:

donnyenglish said:

Did The Revolution have any input on the SOTT album? If so, which tracks did they help write or play on?

we can go into that but

and some of the best Graffiti Bridge tracks (along with Theives in the Temple)
I mean It's Gonna Be a Beautiful Night is the Revolution on the Parade tour...

I love Lovesexy as being a part of that period I love the tour the look etc but the album is never on the high scales of the albums for me, and I do like the album

I know a lot of people don't care for it by musically Rainbow Children hearkens back to a mix of musical style from the 80s period. It sound closest to the 'Prince sound' out of most of his post 1989 albums for me

So are you saying W&L wrote or played on Thieves In The Temple?

Iamtheorg said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

just because U erase someones contributions doesn't remove the energy and synergy that created it.

Geezus. Will you please get your tongue off of their clits? lol

come on of4s stop the worship

.

[Edited 10/31/16 14:58pm]

I'm not talking about W & L if you read back I'm talking about a bigger community

Yeah

In this bed I scream
Lonely nights I lay awake thinking of you
And if I'm cursed with a dream
A thousand times I feel whatever I've put you through

Tell me, how're we gonna put this back together?
How're we gonna think with the same mind?
Knowing all along that life is so much better
Living and loving together all the time

Living and loving

In this bed I, in this bed I, in this bed I scream

In this car I drive
I'm looking for the road that leads back to the soul we shared
With my very life
I'd gladly be the body upon the cross we bear (Cross we bear)

How did we ever lose communication? (How did we?)
How did we ever lose each other's sound? (I don't know)
Baby, if you wanna, we can fix the situation
Maybe we can stop the rain from coming down

just because U erase someones contributions doesn't remove the energy and synergy that created it.

dodger said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

we can go into that but

and some of the best Graffiti Bridge tracks (along with Theives in the Temple)
I mean It's Gonna Be a Beautiful Night is the Revolution on the Parade tour...

I love Lovesexy as being a part of that period I love the tour the look etc but the album is never on the high scales of the albums for me, and I do like the album

I know a lot of people don't care for it by musically Rainbow Children hearkens back to a mix of musical style from the 80s period. It sound closest to the 'Prince sound' out of most of his post 1989 albums for me

So are you saying W&L wrote or played on Thieves In The Temple?

no, I'm saying Theives in the Temple is one of the best tracks on Graffiti Bridge

FUNKNROLL said:

Well if you go by what Prince thinks, the mural on PP's wall is very clear about his own influences and the people he believes he influenced. As the tour guides explain - The mural shows W&L to the left as persons he influenced. Whereas Stevie Wonder and Chaka Khan are on his right, indicating they inspired him. Runs away...

We're splitting hairs about what tracks on SOTT had input and which didn't, but you look back through the 3 'official' Revolution albums and it's still largely Prince; rarely with the full band, sometimes with input from one or two people (like W&L, or Sheila, or with vocals from Jill, Susannah etc). But it's still very much The Prince Show except for those few full band performances. All the band members and people around, their influence is important and can definately be felt, but that's not always found in 'tangible' credits, it's more about that interplay of the girls voices with his, or that cocky and playful, imaginative edge Prince had at the time because he was in a good place creatively. That's the magic, it's not just about liner note credits of who wrote and played on what and who didn't before and after 1986.

.

You can see the amount of crossover there is between Dream Factory and SOTT, and the only difference in the shared tracks is, what, some of the stuff on Strange Relationship is buried deeper in the mix on SOTT than it was on Dream Factory? Had DF come out he might've made those changes any way - the idea that it was solely done to purposefully remove W&L's input after they left seems weak to me. Since Strange Relationship was held over for Camille, it's just as likely he felt the sitar sounded a bit too flowery for that batch of songs which harks back to the sparser synth-funk of pre-Revolution 80s sound - which does seem purposeful and a precursor to what he was trying to achieve with the Black Album also.

It seems as the Dream Factory tracklist evolved, he was already removing certain tracks whilst still working on it as a Revolution record. So had SOTT (or DF) come out as a Revolution album - and still had the same mix of band/non-band songs, would there still be this discussion? Lovesexy is a Prince "solo" album, but I still hear Sheila, Cat, Boni, Eric, Atlanta all over it, and yet it's not credited to 'Prince & band'.

.

In other words: Whether it says "and the Revolution" or "and the NPG" or just "Prince" - it's still the same combination - it's Prince's vision, shaped with various collaborators yes, but Prince is the captain of the ship. Always.

.

If you think Prince "lost" something at a particular point in his career, I don't think you can put it down to one specific reason, like a band member's departure. For a start all artists have that golden period, and if Prince's lasted 'only' two thirds of a decade, that's a lot longer than most.

paulludvig said:

I think a lot of the W&L credit is just plain ole coincidence - they were around during his absolute commercial and critical peak. Keep this in mind: Lisa was around a LOT longer, so why doesn't she get more credit?

Are we really saying that things really changed when Wendy and Wendy alone came around?

Se7en said:

I think a lot of the W&L credit is just plain ole coincidence - they were around during his absolute commercial and critical peak. Keep this in mind: Lisa was around a LOT longer, so why doesn't she get more credit?

Are we really saying that things really changed when Wendy and Wendy alone came around?

probably not, especially since we know that being female helped...
it was bigger than those 2 though
Prince himself in a 1998 interview called that period a 'community' for himself...
That he talked about it, looking back, say a lot about the periods of 1982-1986

the community changed, it shrunk considerably, he no longer had what he called his mirror competitions via the progete bands like with the Time Sheila E (and others)...

When Lisa came Uptown and Morris Day(the Time) were there, we see a huge change/opening in style and much more music over the years...
Dez had a huge affect on Prince's fashion too

THE REVOLUTION
WERE THE ONLY PRINCE BAND

THAT THE GENERAL PUBLIC

EVER KNEW OR CARED ABOUT.

And the entire band/vibe/music/look

elevated 'Prince' to heights he hadn't seen before or after them.

OldFriends4Sale said: