That statement about him listening to outside opinions and the force Hip hop and alternative was having affected his vision and direction honestly. Once the innovator the same one that created Dead on it basically making fun of rappers recruits a sub par like Tony M that in most cases prince rapped better than.

His rap in face down,push,and my name is prince proved he could have saved some money leaving tony and the game Boyz out the mix. At times it seemed kinda corny compared to what real hip hop was doing and musicology was an adult affair (the hits)with maceo and the old school vibe of it all.

Poorlovelycomputer said:

His rap in face down,push,and my name is prince proved he could have saved some money leaving tony and the game Boyz out the mix. At times it seemed kinda corny compared to what real hip hop was doing and musicology was an adult affair (the hits)with maceo and the old school vibe of it all.

The biggest rapper at that time was MC Hammer so how was Tony M any cornier.

What was going in real hip-hop as you call it was total ignorance of gangster rap and now rap is much worst then anything Tony M was doing. The adult fair with real music grossed 80 million dollars.

CAL3 said:

laurarichardson said:

Wow all those million plus people who went to the Musicology Tour and the O2 must not have realized he was following trends. When was Prince following trends. When he did rap he went out found his own rapper and did not have him do rap in a traditional manner.

He has a hugh catalogue do yourself a favor and educate yourself.

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Most of the millions who went to Musicology were only interested in '80s nostalgia.

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I didn't realize Tony M was such an innovator!

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Yes, including Tony and other hip hop elements was entirely playing 'catch up' with the evolving trends in pop music. He become a follower in that regard.

Never said he was an innovator but he was not a gangster rapper which was very popular at the time. Actually, it is called I need to sell some records to keep WB off my ass because it is a business.

Poorlovelycomputer said:

That statement about him listening to outside opinions and the force Hip hop and alternative was having affected his vision and direction honestly. Once the innovator the same one that created Dead on it basically making fun of rappers recruits a sub par like Tony M that in most cases prince rapped better than.

Sheila E's Transmississippi rap on IGBABN kills everything Tony M did with Prince

laurarichardson said:

Poorlovelycomputer said:

His rap in face down,push,and my name is prince proved he could have saved some money leaving tony and the game Boyz out the mix. At times it seemed kinda corny compared to what real hip hop was doing and musicology was an adult affair (the hits)with maceo and the old school vibe of it all.

The biggest rapper at that time was MC Hammer so how was Tony M any cornier.

What was going in real hip-hop as you call it was total ignorance of gangster rap and now rap is much worst then anything Tony M was doing. The adult fair with real music grossed 80 million dollars.

The biggest rapper at that time was MC Hammer so how was Tony M any cornier.

.

It means he was chasing trends.

laurarichardson said:

CAL3 said:

.

Most of the millions who went to Musicology were only interested in '80s nostalgia.

.

I didn't realize Tony M was such an innovator!

.

Yes, including Tony and other hip hop elements was entirely playing 'catch up' with the evolving trends in pop music. He become a follower in that regard.

Never said he was an innovator but he was not a gangster rapper which was very popular at the time. Actually, it is called I need to sell some records to keep WB off my ass because it is a business.

.

I need to sell some records to keep WB off my ass because it is a business.

.

Tony M didn't sell Prince a single record that he wouldn't have sold without him.

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At any rate, kowtowing to the suits doesn't make something artistically valid.

OldFriends4Sale said:

They music from Dream Factory consisted of music recorded with W&L/the Rev and music he recorded solo. He discarded the music he recorded with W&L and kept the music he recorded on his own. His solo work,the music he actually chose to release,shows him moving in a new direction.

The pressure was there to sell records Prince like Madonna and U2 had to acknowledge the change in music to stay relevant if that meant using any gimmick to do it

CAL3 said:

laurarichardson said:

Never said he was an innovator but he was not a gangster rapper which was very popular at the time. Actually, it is called I need to sell some records to keep WB off my ass because it is a business.

.

I need to sell some records to keep WB off my ass because it is a business.

.

Tony M didn't sell Prince a single record that he wouldn't have sold without him.

.

At any rate, kowtowing to the suits doesn't make something artistically valid.

Never said it did. It is the reality of the music business. D&P sold about 5 million copies this was after the recent disaster of GB and people saying Batman soundtrack was successful only because of the movie. He needed to move some records. Like it or not corny rap was selling at the time. Just like shitty corny rap is selling now.

Poorlovelycomputer said:

The pressure was there to sell records Prince like Madonna and U2 had to acknowledge the change in music to stay relevant if that meant using any gimmick to do it

Exactly, you have to keep up.

It was actually the title track, cream,money don't matter tonight,gett off tracks like that which made d&p the 5 million seller it was.

OldFriends4Sale said:

It's the PR movie and the accompanying soundtrack that pushed Prince into the stratosphere. Prince is the star of that film. After that, everything that revolved around him also became popular.

He was more than able to take over the rap parts in his songs.would have preferred that no song tony was featured on never did good commercially really.

He was more than able to take over the rap parts in his songs.would have preferred that no song tony was featured on never did good commercially really.

laurarichardson said:

CAL3 said:

.

I need to sell some records to keep WB off my ass because it is a business.

.

Tony M didn't sell Prince a single record that he wouldn't have sold without him.

.

At any rate, kowtowing to the suits doesn't make something artistically valid.

Never said it did. It is the reality of the music business. D&P sold about 5 million copies this was after the recent disaster of GB and people saying Batman soundtrack was successful only because of the movie. He needed to move some records. Like it or not corny rap was selling at the time. Just like shitty corny rap is selling now.

.

And YOU think Tony M is the reason D&P sold millions? That's your take on it??

The gold gun microphone prince began using was definitely "gangsta rap" inspired

Cat was even a better rapper

BillieBalloon said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Not in the 80s. And I'm talking about all of them.
The bands,, his and the proteges

It had a big part of what made that period so huge

It's the PR movie and the accompanying soundtrack that pushed Prince into the stratosphere. Prince is the star of that film. After that, everything that revolved around him also became popular.

Yes definately but without all the other parts U just have Prince. Actually even Prince admitted to a degree Morris stole the scenes from him. I think Prince did good though. Especially with scene connected to his family.

But in general I meant Prince's camp made it his kingdom much bigger, before and after Purple Rain, Vanity 6 What Time Is It (the Time) 1999 tour was a huge success for that

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

That is the 'saving face reason' What was such a different direction during 1987-88? Don't do music from Dream Factory if you want to go into a different direction. Even the response to critics saying he lost the funk and such... how does Lovesexy reflect that?

Now by 1989 Sheila E leaving because 'the music had no more melody' and not liking the overt sexpot image he wanted her to go into is 1 example of a different direction. GB era was a watered down Lovesexy era with many failed protege projects... Jill Jones Dr Fink & Miko Weaver being the last of the purple friends order (oh well Levi was kept around before relegated to the halls of paisley Park where he left bitter)

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In a 1990 interview he talked about it being hard to be a boss & a friend... that is also why a lot of the people from the 80s ended up outside of Prince's camp, not just Lisa & Wendy

.

He has said many things that made it clear there was an emotional reason. In This Bed I Scream screams that it was an emotional reason...

They music from Dream Factory consisted of music recorded with W&L/the Rev and music he recorded solo. He discarded the music he recorded with W&L and kept the music he recorded on his own. His solo work,the music he actually chose to release,shows him moving in a new direction.

It is all the same direction of the 1985-86 recording. Even Graffiti Bridge was mostly outtakes from 1981-1986

CAL3 said:

laurarichardson said:

Never said it did. It is the reality of the music business. D&P sold about 5 million copies this was after the recent disaster of GB and people saying Batman soundtrack was successful only because of the movie. He needed to move some records. Like it or not corny rap was selling at the time. Just like shitty corny rap is selling now.

.

And YOU think Tony M is the reason D&P sold millions? That's your take on it??

I did not say that I said corny rap was selling at the time. Work on your reading skills.

Poorlovelycomputer said:

The gold gun microphone prince began using was definitely "gangsta rap" inspired

Using a gun mike is not the same as rapping about selling crack and killing people.

So in other words prince didn't need to incorporate a less talented rapper into the mix to sell 5 mill.

Waving a fake gun around implies the gun toting crack selling thugs prince image previously was never about that.a change for the better??

I do think Prince was a better rapper than Tony M. Partly because Tony M's raps just seemed like intrusions in otherwise decent songs. Prince's raps were often funny and even a bit like parody. They at times even seemed imitative of other rappers. Pussy Control is the only rap I don't really like of P's...that he did himself (the sentiment doesn't bother me--just the rapping.).

I like Face Down, Now, Sexy MF, Gett Off and Days of Wild. They are funny, wiry, vulgar, and angry but never even attempt to be gangster (and thank god for that.).

Poorlovelycomputer said:

That statement about him listening to outside opinions and the force Hip hop and alternative was having affected his vision and direction honestly. Once the innovator the same one that created Dead on it basically making fun of rappers recruits a sub par like Tony M that in most cases prince rapped better than.

[Edited 11/2/16 14:15pm]

I don't doubt that he did send mixed messages but I also think W and L had their own egos to contend with as well. Even collaboraters have to realize that if the 'band' is called Prince and the Revolution that Prince is the boss. Now, if it was just called the Revolution, I would see their point. As far as I could tell, it wasn't a 50/50 working relationship even if they did contribute. Okay, maybe Dream Factory and a handful of other songs were 50/25/25. But are people arguing that Prince, Wendy and Lisa were the equivalent of Lennon and McCartney?

Poorlovelycomputer said:

The boss changed their relationship to collaborators.meaning they probably considered themselves as more valuable as far as the creative process goes but without a voice. From dez, to vanity,to st.paul,to Morris most left the prince camp with tension between them and prince. We all know it was his party but as fan I accept that he sometimes drove people to leave the party before it was over

[Edited 11/2/16 14:27pm]

The prince and vanity song "if a girl answers" comes to mind it's humorous and the delivery sounds like his attempt at early hip hop

Acknowledging them and being more sympathetic would have made them that much more of a stronger unit.
[Edited 11/2/16 14:33pm]

Dream factory in reality never materialized so it didn't get to the relationship Paul and John had where they worked on songs together and separately and then put their songs on one album. The lyrics and vision was always Prince's. Their talent and knowledge of other styles brought a whole new road for him to go down. the David Coleman instrumental gave prince inspiration for ATWIAD
[Edited 11/2/16 14:53pm]
[Edited 11/2/16 14:58pm]

Maybe, they were shortchanged for some songs (Power Fantastic credits) and Prince could have been more vocally thankful, but we know their names because he let us know who they were, they were called out in his songs, and they were given screen time in videos and in Purple Rain. Weren't they even on a Rolling Stone cover with him. And I am sure he mentioned their names on stage. Hell, he acknowledged LIsa in the Piano and Microphone tour 30 years later.

I think they wanted more input.

Poorlovelycomputer said:

Acknowledging them and being more sympathetic would have made them that much more of a stronger unit. [Edited 11/2/16 14:33pm]

[Edited 11/2/16 14:59pm]