Sure of THEIR big money making artist, but Prince isn't their's anymore. Getting his stuff at bargain basement prices? ALL of it. Sounds like the same crap that happens on those storage war shows, they pick out a few items they think have the biggest potential and maximize it's value, make more than they spend on those few items and dump the rest. Talking about what they have the capacity to do versus what they have shown williness to do is just wishful thinking in my mind. Proof is in what you see them actually do. Hell, it looks like even MTV will show all of us what it thinks of it's veteran artist, and they are very invested to the big corps.
I doubt that would happen. Why trash their own investment? On the contrary they want a steady stream they could maximize profits for, for as long as possible. That's how business works.
Bull. I wasn't born yesterday, I've seen how business works. Some things they are willing to put their best efforts towards and some things they just want pick out the parts they think are the most beneficial to them and move on to the next best thing. What have you seen that says they think Prince fans are worth giving the best effort to?
This may not be 'a good thing' as some have noted. In my opinion, it is very likely, that in the 'wrong hands', a lot of the unreleased music may never be released how we all want it. A lot of amazing songs may just be given to 'in' groups or singers, and not actually released as new Prince material. How the fuck will we be responding on here when that shit happens!
This may not be 'a good thing' as some have noted. In my opinion, it is very likely, that in the 'wrong hands', a lot of the unreleased music may never be released how we all want it. A lot of amazing songs may just be given to 'in' groups or singers, and not actually released as new Prince material. How the fuck will we be responding on here when that shit happens!
It's Storage Wars or Treasure Hunters or any other of those kind of businesses. Get something for as dirt cheap as you can get it, pick out what you want and toss the rest. When someone really want something they'll splurge to get it.
Sure of THEIR big money making artist, but Prince isn't their's anymore. Getting his stuff at bargain basement prices? ALL of it. Sounds like the same crap that happens on those storage war shows, they pick out a few items they think have the biggest potential and maximize it's value, make more than they spend on those few items and dump the rest. Talking about what they have the capacity to do versus what they have shown williness to do is just wishful thinking in my mind. Proof is in what you see them actually do. Hell, it looks like even MTV will show all of us what it thinks of it's veteran artist, and they are very invested to the big corps.
I doubt that would happen. Why trash their own investment? On the contrary they want a steady stream they could maximize profits for, for as long as possible. That's how business works.
Bull. I wasn't born yesterday, I've seen how business works. Some things they are willing to put their best efforts towards and some things they just want pick out the parts they think are the most beneficial to them and move on to the next best thing. What have you seen that says they think Prince fans are worth giving the best effort to?
Bull. I wasn't born yesterday, I've seen how business works. Some things they are willing to put their best efforts towards and some things they just want pick out the parts they think are the most beneficial to them and move on to the next best thing. What have you seen that says they think Prince fans are worth giving the best effort to?
Bull. I wasn't born yesterday, I've seen how business works. Some things they are willing to put their best efforts towards and some things they just want pick out the parts they think are the most beneficial to them and move on to the next best thing. What have you seen that says they think Prince fans are worth giving the best effort to?
SquirrelMeat said: So when people throw out this $300m estate figure what is that based on if his music is only worth $35m? Sony bought out MJ's 50% stake in the Sony/ATV publishing for $750m. Part of the reasons Prince albums didn't sell as much post WB is distribution. Right now there's 20 years worth of music that the only place you can buy it is Tidal. And until earlier this year even Tidal didn't have a lot of these albums. Most people listen to music on streaming services like Spotify, Music and Google Play and purchase albums via iTunes. Having to buy stuff from Tidal and then figure out how to merge it with your other music library is a pain and a lot of people won't go through the effort. If they don't see it on iTunes they assume it doesn't exist. I would like to see the Estate get h8s music on as many platforms as possible.
Of course none of us know the estate value at the moment, but my bet is its nowhere near $300m. Celebrity estates are always trumped up in the press, much like the contract figures for deals (Prince's $100m deal in 93 as an example). We hear all the time about celebrities who go bankrupt, when they were being touted as being worth tens or hundreds of millions. It doesn't take long for a large estate to hemorrhage money.
For a start I would guess that the estate cashflow is was almost non existent. Prince was frequently late with bills and no album had shifted any significant numbers in 12 years. I would say he was far from broke, but nothing was liquid. It wouldn't surprise me if the Piano & a Microphone tour was a short term income generator, with good low overheads. Prince was very good at bringing well paid gigs in when he needed to (including private shows). But equally, his personal overheads were always very large, from jets to security and he was happy to give money away and help good causes, and I don't think he was the type to do it for tax breaks.
The sales around the time of his death are highly likely to be the career peak. So if we look at his pre tax earnings from Oct 1st 2015 to Oct 1st 2016, its $25m. That is a time period where he had high yeald concert earnings, a 4000% spike in record sales and a similar spike in airplay royalties. It won't ever get any higher.
Remembering that its pre tax gross, in an exceptional year. £25m, before the estate running costs and taxes. I bet legal bills alone have swallowed the last remaining cash flow. That would explain the rush to monitize the estate that we are seeing.
Beyond the limited real estate, that of course leave the music. The main reason MJ's estate and earnings are worth so much is because of his investment in the huge publishing house, not his own royalties. He invested very well (ironically on Paul McCartneys advice).
There is value in the music, but retrospective catalogue sales are much lower than people imagine, even for the likes of Pink Floyd or Springsteen. Anyone outside of the estate looking to profit from the vault is going to want a return on investment, and that would usually be between 3 and 10 time the investment value.
If Prince sales, at a modern day peak (including touring) brought in £25m pre tax, then any potential purchaser would be looking at less that half of that on a good year, pre tax and more importantly, pre cost of sales.
A good indicator would be the 2012 sale of the Elvis estate. The entire catalogue, image rights and the real cash cow, Graceland Holdings fetched $125m. I would argue the Elvis estate holds far greater value as its a time proven institution in its own right.
The other factor in its value will be how they sweat the asset. Musicals, Circus De Soleil, adverts. Its questionable how marketable Prince would be as a commercial product, and how the fans would take to it if he was sold in that manner.
Of course none of us know the estate value at the moment, but my bet is its nowhere near $300m. Celebrity estates are always trumped up in the press, much like the contract figures for deals (Prince's $100m deal in 93 as an example). We hear all the time about celebrities who go bankrupt, when they were being touted as being worth tens or hundreds of millions. It doesn't take long for a large estate to hemorrhage money.
For a start I would guess that the estate cashflow is was almost non existent. Prince was frequently late with bills and no album had shifted any significant numbers in 12 years. I would say he was far from broke, but nothing was liquid. It wouldn't surprise me if the Piano & a Microphone tour was a short term income generator, with good low overheads. Prince was very good at bringing well paid gigs in when he needed to (including private shows). But equally, his personal overheads were always very large, from jets to security and he was happy to give money away and help good causes, and I don't think he was the type to do it for tax breaks.
The sales around the time of his death are highly likely to be the career peak. So if we look at his pre tax earnings from Oct 1st 2015 to Oct 1st 2016, its $25m. That is a time period where he had high yeald concert earnings, a 4000% spike in record sales and a similar spike in airplay royalties. It won't ever get any higher.
Remembering that its pre tax gross, in an exceptional year. £25m, before the estate running costs and taxes. I bet legal bills alone have swallowed the last remaining cash flow. That would explain the rush to monitize the estate that we are seeing.
Beyond the limited real estate, that of course leave the music. The main reason MJ's estate and earnings are worth so much is because of his investment in the huge publishing house, not his own royalties. He invested very well (ironically on Paul McCartneys advice).
There is value in the music, but retrospective catalogue sales are much lower than people imagine, even for the likes of Pink Floyd or Springsteen. Anyone outside of the estate looking to profit from the vault is going to want a return on investment, and that would usually be between 3 and 10 time the investment value.
If Prince sales, at a modern day peak (including touring) brought in £25m pre tax, then any potential purchaser would be looking at less that half of that on a good year, pre tax and more importantly, pre cost of sales.
A good indicator would be the 2012 sale of the Elvis estate. The entire catalogue, image rights and the real cash cow, Graceland Holdings fetched $125m. I would argue the Elvis estate holds far greater value as its a time proven institution in its own right.
The other factor in its value will be how they sweat the asset. Musicals, Circus De Soleil, adverts. Its questionable how marketable Prince would be as a commercial product, and how the fans would take to it if he was sold in that manner.
Only time will tell.
I hope Theo in the middle buys the vault. He runs a lingerie chain. Right up Prince's street.
If all of that is true then what would be the big whoop about tweeting the articles are false? Seems to me you'd tweet how great that news was and how great the potential is, blah, blah, blah.
At the end of the day P's legacy needs to live on and to do that his music needs to be accessible. Hello? Even hard-core fans can't buy some of his albums! There was no distribution, zero marketing or promotion. I bet most average people wasn't even aware he was still making music. So no one really knows how successful he would have been these past 15 years or so with the right backing. I don't really care how they go about making him accessible to people now, why be so precious about it? For example...if tomorrow they got Calvin Harris to remix a track it would probably go to number one and be a stepping stone to people seeking out his other music. I don't want Prince to become some 2bit cult artist. We need him to be passed down from generation to generation so that in 40-50 years time he will have a legacy and estate as strong as Hendrix or Bob Marley.
There's always a rainbow 🌈 , at the end of every rain ☔️
At the end of the day P's legacy needs to live on and to do that his music needs to be accessible. Hello? Even hard-core fans can't buy some of his albums! There was no distribution, zero marketing or promotion. I bet most average people wasn't even aware he was still making music. So no one really knows how successful he would have been these past 15 years or so with the right backing. I don't really care how they go about making him accessible to people now, why be so precious about it? For example...if tomorrow they got Calvin Harris to remix a track it would probably go to number one and be a stepping stone to people seeking out his other music. I don't want Prince to become some 2bit cult artist. We need him to be passed down from generation to generation so that in 40-50 years time he will have a legacy and estate as strong as Hendrix or Bob Marley.
Hmmm, I believe he didn't want to be a "celebrity", or indeed anyone's puppet. He wanted the artistic freedom to do whatever kind of music he liked and release it to people he knew would appreciate it. Whether it was popular he didn't care. As long as his affairs were ticking over nicely he didn't crave the cash. Bill's needed paying, no problem he would go on tour. The estate no longer has that luxury. How Prince wanted to live and how he wanted to be remembered may well be two totally different things.
There's always a rainbow 🌈 , at the end of every rain ☔️
If all of that is true then what would be the big whoop about tweeting the articles are false? Seems to me you'd tweet how great that news was and how great the potential is, blah, blah, blah.
Londell is still in a twitter fight with Billboard asking them to retract the story. Lots of numbers being thrown around but none of us know for sure what his income generation was. We don't have access to his tax returns. Obviously he wasn't moving a lot of records but most older acts don't; that's why they continue to tour well into old(er) age.
At this point what I care most about is keeping PP off the auction block. I want it to be a place people want to visit for years to come. Most reports I've read so far of those who did the tour were positive. And that's on something that was pulled together in less than 6 months. Imagine what it could become over time even beyond the museum aspect. Whatever needs to be done with the music to help keep PP up and running every year I would support. That's why I hope the Estate is working on getting all his albums on iTunes and all his music on streaming sites beyond Tidal. What Prince would/wouldn't have done does t matter as he's not here to generate income via tours and new music.
At the end of the day P's legacy needs to live on and to do that his music needs to be accessible. Hello? Even hard-core fans can't buy some of his albums! There was no distribution, zero marketing or promotion. I bet most average people wasn't even aware he was still making music. So no one really knows how successful he would have been these past 15 years or so with the right backing. I don't really care how they go about making him accessible to people now, why be so precious about it? For example...if tomorrow they got Calvin Harris to remix a track it would probably go to number one and be a stepping stone to people seeking out his other music. I don't want Prince to become some 2bit cult artist. We need him to be passed down from generation to generation so that in 40-50 years time he will have a legacy and estate as strong as Hendrix or Bob Marley.
Using Calvin would be brilliant! What a great idea! Get that music into clubs, bars, anywhere kids congregate - it has to go viral in order for the whole catalogue to survive.
Hmm...not sure what to think aside from $35M being awfully low.
Llondel tweeted billboard to tell them this was inacurate.
$35 million for vault materal probably isn't far off. I mean we're not talking songs with worldwide recognition like "Kiss". We're talking songs nobody has ever heard. There are potentially some hits in there but how do you value something unproven?
Even if it is true, they could simply be asking $35 million upfront from a record company. It seems likely the estate would also get a share of the profits from each album. I doub't they're going to sell the back catalog for $35 million, the hits alone would likely generate that from licencing.
If all of that is true then what would be the big whoop about tweeting the articles are false? Seems to me you'd tweet how great that news was and how great the potential is, blah, blah, blah.
Londell is still in a twitter fight with Billboard asking them to retract the story. Lots of numbers being thrown around but none of us know for sure what his income generation was. We don't have access to his tax returns. Obviously he wasn't moving a lot of records but most older acts don't; that's why they continue to tour well into old(er) age.
At this point what I care most about is keeping PP off the auction block. I want it to be a place people want to visit for years to come. Most reports I've read so far of those who did the tour were positive. And that's on something that was pulled together in less than 6 months. Imagine what it could become over time even beyond the museum aspect. Whatever needs to be done with the music to help keep PP up and running every year I would support. That's why I hope the Estate is working on getting all his albums on iTunes and all his music on streaming sites beyond Tidal. What Prince would/wouldn't have done does t matter as he's not here to generate income via tours and new music.
My attitude is PP stands because Prince gave a damn and put in the work necessary, period. Blah, blah, blah about bottom line.
My thoughts about big labels concerning what they can do with Prince's stuff.. Every single time they say why they didn't or won't do is because it's too risky, while I'm watching people gab on about what they have the capacity to do. Yep my main concern in all this is their bottom line, not what they're willing to do for the fans, they haven't done jack but shine some colored lights and put up some pictures.
At the end of the day P's legacy needs to live on and to do that his music needs to be accessible. Hello? Even hard-core fans can't buy some of his albums! There was no distribution, zero marketing or promotion. I bet most average people wasn't even aware he was still making music. So no one really knows how successful he would have been these past 15 years or so with the right backing. I don't really care how they go about making him accessible to people now, why be so precious about it? For example...if tomorrow they got Calvin Harris to remix a track it would probably go to number one and be a stepping stone to people seeking out his other music. I don't want Prince to become some 2bit cult artist. We need him to be passed down from generation to generation so that in 40-50 years time he will have a legacy and estate as strong as Hendrix or Bob Marley.
Live 4 Love ~ Love is God, God is love, Girls and boys love God above
It's true. See Billboard Awards, What they COULD have done for fans greiving versus what they DID. The reason, it was too (insert excuse) for their bottom line, so many other things to consider. So much concern for Prince fans and their wishlist. Take a handful of HS interns let them take a spin on some tech, give us lights, fluff and the PR song for 40,000 time get several million $ for some stuff.
Is there some kind of restriction on known P albums right now?
It's true. See Billboard Awards, What they COULD have done for fans greiving versus what they DID. The reason, it was too (insert excuse) for their bottom line, so many other things to consider. So much concern for Prince fans and their wishlist. Take a handful of HS interns let them take a spin on some tech, give us lights, fluff and the PR song for 40,000 time get several million $ for some stuff. Is there some kind of restriction on known P albums right now?
I would love to know who runs the PRNFamily twitter account. They just re-tweeted this Billboard story:
Prince Music Vault Being Shopped for $35 Million: Source | Billboard
#WhatWouldPrinceDo Thoughts?
To which Londell McMillan replied:
#Prince would ignore them b/c this is absurd! He would have me or someone set them straight-which we did already! ☔️
Sigh. Does no one in the family know Londell McMillan already responded saying the story was false and asking Billboard to retract? Can the estate and family please get on the same page messaging wise? Even if they don't always agree...keep disagreements behind closed doors and present a unified message to the public.
^ I'd imagine the family has more of a say as to what happens with the vault than Llondel. If the family decide that's what they want to do, I'm not sure how Llondel would stop them? Maybe the family have already decided they just want the money. Llondel could be the one who didn't get the memo.
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I hope Theo in the middle buys the vault. He runs a lingerie chain. Right up Prince's street.
