Are we supposed to panic or not? Is there a leak of false information that needs to be plugged?

6 months of tail chasing is exhausting.

bonatoc said:

1Sasha said:

And remember we do not know how much of what is in the vault belongs to Prince's estate. There may be work product in there which belongs to WB or other entities he had signed contracts with. Such other ownership may significantly reduce the value of the estate. No one knows yet.

He had one off deals after he left WB and he retained the master recordings so I think things post 96 are good. As far as WB is concerned his contracts with them ended so if he never turned something into them how can they claim ownership.

Ingela said:

It's called being facetious. Which sometimes takes ignorance and lack of culture to understand. But in any case. The Paul McCartney and Bob Dylan are BOTH STILL ALIVE and capable of managing their own affairs and have corporations that are their caretakers. So more ignorable and lack of culture maybe. So chill baby with your ignorance and lack of culture shit lol

You're the kind who thinks I have to look for "facetious" in the Wiktionary.
That's harsh.

Well, I'm glad to know they're still alive, in fact I listen to their records still, do you?
You do know they actually don't deal with their own affairs all by themselves, do you?
They just knew when it was time to delegate.
And they could still be alive, and have some clowns messing up the catalogue.
Being dead has nothing to do with it, and we know how Prince
had a tendency to take the wrong decisions when it came to market himself.

Maybe we were close to a situation where Prince would let the experts deal
with his catalogue when he was still alive, we'll never know.
The biography looked like a good hint in this direction. Even the museum idea.

Prince pursued his dream of being a mainstream rock star.
But I'm glad he was for just a brief moment.

He thought he could sell like Abba or Queen,
but it's just impossible. Too cryptic, too rich in innuendos,
in a way too intellectual, even when it comes to sex.
"Erotic City" is no "Love to Love You Baby".

You just can't expect for an album like "Love Symbol" to sell
more than what it sold. There are not so many people on the planet
with the culture required to fully grasp it.

laurarichardson said:

1Sasha said:

And remember we do not know how much of what is in the vault belongs to Prince's estate. There may be work product in there which belongs to WB or other entities he had signed contracts with. Such other ownership may significantly reduce the value of the estate. No one knows yet.

He had one off deals after he left WB and he retained the master recordings so I think things post 96 are good. As far as WB is concerned his contracts with them ended so if he never turned something into them how can they claim ownership.

They can claim ownership as IP during the contract. I know most employers claim that during employment if material is created, they (the employer) regain ownership. At least that is how it worked with my current and past employers. And to be clear, I am not employed in the entertainment industry, so arguably, yes, it can be different.

I also believe WB has to have some form of ownership, they monitored the Crytal Ball release. And from the conversations here on the Org, WB basically chin cheeked Prince on that release. It all depends on the language of the contracts with WB.

If Prince did get his masters back, what was the agreement on? Could he have gain his IP as well during his contract years?

bonatoc said:

warning2all said:

Artistically & historically speaking, the best of the Vault is priceless. In terms of earning potential, any Vault compilation won't sell more than "Chaos and Disorder", or "Planet Earth", so $35 million makes sense.As long as the music gets out

Well we are lucking you are not running anything. Any company that markets and distrubutes the music is going to get a cut of the profits for doing nothing more then ads, streaming and maybe if we are lucky a box set.

The musis is already done. No production costs, no musicians to pay and a ready to spend fanbase.

rogifan said:

fbueller said:

All the people related to the Prince estate should understand that many fans had already grown tired of Prince's guessing games and mysterious announcements. It's way past time to just be straight forward. Announce and communicate things clearly. #NoRiddles

So every time a rumor comes up the estate needs to issue a formal statement or press release? That's ridiculous. This was reported in Billboard not breaking news on CNN. And it didn't take long for Londell to deny it on Twitter.

Actually, I was making a general reference about the communication styles of Prince estate related representatives. I'm aware that Londell responded about this particular Billboard article. The post I responded to - the person commented about frustrating Prince-like communications.

PennyPurple said:

I don't think Billboard just made this story up.

The old saying is, 'where there is smoke, there is fire'.

Something IS going on with the vault.

CherryMoon57 said:

Prince’s much-vaunted vault of unreleased music is being shopped for as much as $35 million by estate advisers Charles Koppelman and L. Londell McMillan, a source close to the situation tells Billboard. All three major labels are said to be in talks for rights to the music, the source said.

http://www.billboard.com/...xe-edition

Saw this: http://www.bbc.com/news/e...s-37641654

bonatoc said:

^ So what you're saying is that it is either the cancer,
or the bubonic pest.

You're kind of legitimating greed. A bit.

I'm not keen on excusing ignorance and lack of culture.
I would prefer for the Vault to fall into good hands.
Someone who knows exactly what (s)he's dealing with.

cheers, bonatoc

So Londell's update is that there is no update. Thanks guy. Any chance of an update?

Prince himself admitted that making money from albums these days was getting near impossible. He was going for one off pay deals with publications. The CD's he released since then did not sell well.

His estate was kept in business by touring, much like many legacy acts today.

$35 million sounds reasonable, depending exactly what is on offer. Remastered classic albums tend to sell in the region of 10,000 to 20,000 copies, and Prince probably has probably 7 of those, tops. Re-releases / remasters of the other 32 will be niche in sales terms.

Do the maths on those numbers at 50% wholesale cost and its not huge.

The real estate worth is in the real estate followed by the royalty payments of the hits.

jaawwnn said:

So Londell's update is that there is no update. Thanks guy. Any chance of an update?

That is the update.

SquirrelMeat said:

nelcp777 said:

anangellooksdown said:

laurarichardson said:

I think they are looking for someone to market and distrube the music which way he did not squash it completly. I don't think they are trying to do a fire sale.

Maybe. But I just want someone in this whole situation to be direct and honest. One look at Londell's twitter account and I see a grown businessman using terms like "RIP" and "lol". I mean, really? He may be a nice person but is he truly up to this task? I am beginning to see that there might not be anyone in this whole Prince situation who possesses integrity, intelligence, directness and basic common decency all together. Why the need for manipulation? Because that's "the way of the world"? Prince died. This is serious. We need to treat his legacy with love and care and respect. No wonder Prince did everything by himself.

Exactly!

NME01 said:

SquirrelMeat said:

Prince himself admitted that making money from albums these days was getting near impossible. He was going for one off pay deals with publications. The CD's he released since then did not sell well.

His estate was kept in business by touring, much like many legacy acts today.

$35 million sounds reasonable, depending exactly what is on offer. Remastered classic albums tend to sell in the region of 10,000 to 20,000 copies, and Prince probably has probably 7 of those, tops. Re-releases / remasters of the other 32 will be niche in sales terms.

Do the maths on those numbers at 50% wholesale cost and its not huge.

The real estate worth is in the real estate followed by the royalty payments of the hits.

Exactly. The estate need to work on a long term plan to keep Prince profile high enough that he's always played on the radio, that will pay the bills and keep Paisley going. Plus a few seven-figure brand / sync deals every few years. Camille / Roadhouse Garden / Parade Tour Live won't keep the wolf from the door.

Radio will be "kinda dead" in a few years.

The massive growth the video business is experiencing indicates that motion media is on the rise.
If Youtube one day wins the audio/video streaming wars, music without visuals could be presented as less interesting to the consumer.
Given the visuals of Prince, be it live, movies, videos that sit in The Vault,
you have possibly years of monthly paid subscriptions at hand.

Let's say 9.99 a month times 100.000 people, try to sustain that subscription base for 5 years : You make $60M, minus 15 for marketing and operational costs. Maybe an extra 5 in royalties for the record companies owning such and such song.

5 years seems reasonable. 12 episodes a year. There must be some bloopers of UTCM somewhere. SOTT outtakes without overdubs, Zanalee finally in HD, the making of 3 Chains... You have lots of thematics: you just have to browse the org history if you lack inspiration.

Even better: You can make a monthly episode sync'ed to a month in the past!
Interested in June 1986? Buy it for $9.99 and get access to Cobo Hall HD,
plus all the songs/outtakes/side projects recorded that month.
Heck, I'd gladly pay $77 for that kind of deal.

Let's imagine re-introducing the NPGMC mixing console, only this time loaded with real multi-tracks, and the ability for the listener to solo/mute every single track on every song of an album — you get tons of amateur musicians on the spot.
But you need one heck of a dev team. Hopefully the first alumnis of YesWeCode will be brought in.
You also need to make Princevault.com a partner, for their content.
It's just a matter of sampling each track, no big deal.

It's not a problem to make Prince a legend. All the ingredients are here.
The story-telling has to be right.
If you excite the teen in the proper way, it's sold.
Because there's substance.
Prince is the shit, and while we know it for quite some time now,
there's no reason the initial impact can't be recreated.
The Beatles can be passed from a generation to another,
because they kick ass, no matter what year.

In the end, we're talking about the most bitchin' pop performer there ever was,
with hours of video of concerts just waiting to be remastered.
If you issue City Lights in video, even if for some concerts you have some fixed shots only, you can still sell a million of Blu-Ray spread across several volumes.
That makes you ten million bucks for live concerts only.

You can also be thematic and do a Guitar Series, in episodes: The Prinz, the Cloud (White, Canary, Blue Angel, Batcave eras), the Symbol, all with record and live appearances listed, and audio/video highlights.
Pedal/Amps settings described by his engineers, so you can try to replicate his sound at home.

Personally, I could make a 50 minutes episode with only dissecting the production of the song "Hello".
OK, maybe not everyone is as hardcore...

But even with 50.000 subscribers a month on average (subscribers will come and go, it's inevitable),
you have yourself a running business.

Again, if told properly, Prince's career is fascinating.
And there's so much unheard soundtrack and unheard visuals to bring to the table.
12 episodes a year is easy to handle for a competent production team.
But it has to become a reference in music documentaries. No less.
Form must follow content.

petalthecat said:

Ingela said:

laurarichardson said:

heathilly said:

It seems low but music doesnt sell like it used to and this stuff will mostly only appeal to hardcore fans. So its about right to turn a profit.

Selling the entire Vault for 35 million is not maximing the music.

His estate could get royalties on all individual sells you just dont know? They have a tax bill to pay would you rather the government take control of paisley? Also what do you think about cirque du soleil doing a show on prince. It worked great for the beatles and mj. Prince could use the new fans he really made himself irrelevant to a younger audience which is sad.

[Edited 10/14/16 0:35am]

[Edited 10/14/16 0:35am]

[Edited 10/14/16 0:48am]

fbueller said:

bonatoc said:

^ So what you're saying is that it is either the cancer,
or the bubonic pest.

You're kind of legitimating greed. A bit.

I'm not keen on excusing ignorance and lack of culture.
I would prefer for the Vault to fall into good hands.
Someone who knows exactly what (s)he's dealing with.

cheers, bonatoc

Hi Ferris.

All that I'm saying is that there must be more creative ways to handle all of this.

The haste of all this shows that the family is still in shock, as we are.
I don't blame them (well ok, my big mouth is always on the run), but I simply wish they'd take some time.

Lawyers are inventive when you want them to be.
With a good, viable business model I don't see why the state of Minnesota wouldn't alow for a tax payment delay. It has been suggested that this years taxes are already taken care of by this spring's string of Top Sales on the music platforms.

Personally I only see an academy for the arts slash museum as a concrete basis.
If only because all of this top notch equipment is just going to rust in there.
Or get old, and become obsolete.

Minneapolis may have the chance to get a state-of-the-art school for the audio/video/stage/music production, wordly renowned.

A school is no cash-cow. But you can still make a profit.
And a museum in this era is a mutimedia/tablet/mobile user experience.
Not a sad, silent SSL console no one will ever touch again.

— Grm... SNif... Pass the handkerchief, mothafuckaz...

[Edited 10/14/16 4:21am]

[Edited 10/14/16 4:23am]

SquirrelMeat said:

Prince himself admitted that making money from albums these days was getting near impossible. He was going for one off pay deals with publications. The CD's he released since then did not sell well.

His estate was kept in business by touring, much like many legacy acts today.

$35 million sounds reasonable, depending exactly what is on offer. Remastered classic albums tend to sell in the region of 10,000 to 20,000 copies, and Prince probably has probably 7 of those, tops. Re-releases / remasters of the other 32 will be niche in sales terms.

.

Exactly. For context: http://www.newser.com/sto...ities.html Note the MASSIVE difference between Prince and MJ, and I don't think there was any significant MJ release this year.

.

There simply is no huge market for Prince product; only expanded + remastered editions of his 1980s classics will do well, and possibly related releases form that era (e.g. a "lost" album like Dream Factory) provided they don't flood the market and provided there's plenty of PR e.g. coordination with magazines like Mojo or Uncut or Rolling Stone and availability of band members who were involved to provide "exclusive" interviews.

.

Nobody cares about his post-WB releases, or even about his 1990s output.

hollywooddove said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Sometimes mere spite.

.

I'm not joking. Look up why NPGQ was shelved; it's in Mobeen Azhar's book.

rogifan said:

ladygirl99 said:

People, put your emotions aside a bit. Because eventually the estate is going to have to make some tough choices because bills have to be paid and they have to consider this as Prince's core fanbase are aging and Prince is no longer around to generate money as he made lot of his money off touring, and among other reasons.

I agree 35 million is very paltry for a superstar like Prince.

And Londell is suspect.

Around here it seems everyone is suspect.

.

Considering the shitfest that the Tribute concert turned into I don't see why anyone would trust Londell to organise a piss-up in a brewery. I've always felt his reputation was waaaay overrated; Prince "getting out" of his WBR deal had far more to do with Mo Ostin being a nice guy than with Londell being a savvy lawyer.

BartVanHemelen said:

SquirrelMeat said:

Prince himself admitted that making money from albums these days was getting near impossible. He was going for one off pay deals with publications. The CD's he released since then did not sell well.

His estate was kept in business by touring, much like many legacy acts today.

$35 million sounds reasonable, depending exactly what is on offer. Remastered classic albums tend to sell in the region of 10,000 to 20,000 copies, and Prince probably has probably 7 of those, tops. Re-releases / remasters of the other 32 will be niche in sales terms.

.

Exactly. For context: http://www.newser.com/sto...ities.html Note the MASSIVE difference between Prince and MJ, and I don't think there was any significant MJ release this year.

.

Nobody cares about his post-WB releases, or even about his 1990s output.

You have all the young metalheadz. Careful not to undersestimate the underground quality of the 1990's.
It just requires good story-telling. You just have to market the songs right.

There's no reason a music lover would not appreciate Come, Exodus, the Chaos and Disorder and TGE left-overs if presented and explained through the paranoia and self-isolation the guy went on and off and through.
Elvis got his schmaltzy fat years, SKipper had his skinny rococo years.

It's a niche market sure, but some made Marley a brand while keeping the mystics intact, why wouldn't be the same possible for Prince? You don't have to be voyeuristic to make out a good story.
It's a man fighting for his absolute independence and freedom.
What a rock'n'roll teaser!

If carefully chosen, there's a hell of a 90's soundtrack to go with it.
Hold on to your wigs!