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Thread started 10/08/16 4:54pm

Militant

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Prince & Michael Jackson : A Roundtable Discussion from The MJCast! [Part 1]


Hey guys,



So, a couple friends of mine run The MJCast, one of the best Michael Jackson podcasts out there. Think of your favorite Prince podcasters - whether it's Peach & Black, or Michael Dean, etc....That's the calibre of The MJCast, for MJ fans.

I approached them a while back about having a full on round table discussion about Prince and Michael, respectfully comparing and discussing their careers, their feelings about each other, their different approaches to making music, etc, etc. The aim being that people who are mostly into one, might learn about the other.



The recording was a huge success, and went on for so long that it's been split into two episodes. The discussion group was made up of very knowledgeable fans (including myself) all of whom are fans of both artists and can intellectually discuss both without silly tabloid rivalry discussions. It was a fantastic discussion with lots of different opinions and great topics covered.



The first episode is out now. You can listen to it by clicking the picture below, or you can search for it using your regular podcasting apps.


Topics covered in Part 1 include :

  • Our own views and experiences around Michael Jackson and Prince
  • Sexuality
  • Studio musicianship
  • Live performance


I know we generally have a rule about putting MJ stuff over in the Sticky in Non:Music, but I'm hoping my fellow mods don't lock this thread up wink

For those of you who enjoy listening to podcasts, I think you'll really enjoy this one!

Peace...

Militant (Casey Rain)


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Reply #1 posted 10/08/16 5:22pm

nonames

All Michael Jackson threads get locked, and this one is a sticky?
(All due respect to the MJ Cast and to yourself, by the way, my issue is with how the org is run sometimes...)
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Reply #2 posted 10/08/16 5:55pm

laurarichardso
n

Militant said:


Hey guys,



So, a couple friends of mine run The MJ Cast, one of the best Michael Jackson podcasts out there. Think of your favorite Prince podcasters - whether it's Peach & Black, or Michael Dean, etc....That's the calibre of The MJ Cast, for MJ fans.

I approached them a while back about having a full on round table discussion about Prince and Michael, respectfully comparing and discussing their careers, their feelings about each other, their different approaches to making music, etc, etc. The aim being that people who are mostly into one, might learn about the other.



The recording was a huge success, and went on for so long that it's been split into two episodes. The discussion group was made up of very knowledgeable fans (including myself) all of whom are fans of both artists and can intellectually discuss both without silly tabloid rivalry discussions. It was a fantastic discussion with lots of different opinions and great topics covered.



The first episode is out now. You can listen to it by clicking the picture below, or you can search for it using your regular podcasting apps.


Topics covered in Part 1 include :

  • Our own views and experiences around Michael Jackson and Prince
  • Sexuality
  • Studio musicianship
  • Live performance


I know we generally have a rule about putting MJ stuff over in the Sticky in Non:Music, but I'm hoping my fellow mods don't lock this thread up wink

For those of you who enjoy listening to podcasts, I think you'll really enjoy this one!

Peace...

Militant (Casey Rain)


MJ and musicianship eek

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Reply #3 posted 10/08/16 6:00pm

EnDoRpHn

rolleyes

Two skinny black guys who produced pop music in the 1980s.

That's about as far as the similarities go.

[Edited 10/8/16 18:01pm]

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Reply #4 posted 10/08/16 8:02pm

Dibblekins

Took a wee while to get going there, Militant - 40 minutes of preamble!? wink biggrin Nevertheless, I'm enjoying it - I'm up to 2 hours 45 minutes and will listen to the rest later.

.

I'm not a big MJ fan (my favourite thing of his is Eddie Van Halen's guitar solo in 'Beat It', lol) but it makes for enlightening listening so my thanks to all participants. It's great to hear the enthusiasm for Prince - none of my friends / family are fans so I rarely get to hear actual VOICES speaking about him, and it's just very, very nice. yes

.

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Reply #5 posted 10/08/16 8:17pm

purplethunder3
121

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This sounds really interesting. I look forward to listening to the podcast.

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato
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Reply #6 posted 10/08/16 8:34pm

LBrent

bored
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Reply #7 posted 10/08/16 8:36pm

AnnaStesia10

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Very kool thanx for info and I will b listening to it. Big fan of both Prince and MJ. Bigger for Prince he has just always been my everything. Good stuff!
"A strong spirit transcends rules." - Prince
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Reply #8 posted 10/08/16 11:59pm

TheEnglishGent

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Isn't there already a sticky for this?

Why do things been recently moved to fan meet ups, other artists, or other alternate forums when they're talking about Prince, yet this gets to be a sticky when every single thread which gives a passing mention to MJ gets locked and told to post in the MJ sticky.

It may well be an interesting feature but there needs to be one rule for all, not a separate one just for the moderators.

RIP sad
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Reply #9 posted 10/09/16 3:33am

LuxLove

I hate when they're compared. Prince is a true artist, MJ was an entertainer. Props forever for the moonwalk and that demonic leaning thing he used to do tho!

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Reply #10 posted 10/09/16 8:48am

LBrent

TheEnglishGent said:

Isn't there already a sticky for this?

Why do things been recently moved to fan meet ups, other artists, or other alternate forums when they're talking about Prince, yet this gets to be a sticky when every single thread which gives a passing mention to MJ gets locked and told to post in the MJ sticky.

It may well be an interesting feature but there needs to be one rule for all, not a separate one just for the moderators.




LuxLove said:

I hate when they're compared. Prince is a true artist, MJ was an entertainer.



Right?
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Reply #11 posted 10/09/16 9:09am

smoothcriminal
12

Wow @ the flippant responses in this thread. I, for one, respect both as the awesome, influential, genius black musicians that they were and look forward to listening to this. Good looking out, Militant!

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Reply #12 posted 10/09/16 11:13am

Purpleone4Eva

TheEnglishGent said:

Isn't there already a sticky for this?

Why do things been recently moved to fan meet ups, other artists, or other alternate forums when they're talking about Prince, yet this gets to be a sticky when every single thread which gives a passing mention to MJ gets locked and told to post in the MJ sticky.

It may well be an interesting feature but there needs to be one rule for all, not a separate one just for the moderators.

As an information professional/librarian, I've studied classification and understand the desire for neat categorization. But things here really make me scratch my head. In organizing threads, the user should be thought of first. That includes which forums they're most likely to visit for information. I never go to the fan gatherings area, and would expect like many others for info on tours of paisley park to be in this main forum. Then having a single thread for all things MJ (even when Prince related) is another head scratcher. There's no better way to frustrate a user and ensure discussion is squashed than forcing people to scroll through a long multi-topic thread to see if any discussion is taking place on a particular aspect of the bigger topic.

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Reply #13 posted 10/09/16 11:56am

2olskool4u

nonames said:

All Michael Jackson threads get locked, and this one is a sticky?
(All due respect to the MJ Cast and to yourself, by the way, my issue is with how the org is run sometimes...)

Strange that! The mere mention of mj, the mods are all over it like a rash!
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Reply #14 posted 10/09/16 12:04pm

1Sasha

MJ was a superbly talented entertainer, but Prince was an artist and entertainer, exceptionally gifted. Prince could do everything. There is no comparison IMO.

[Edited 10/9/16 12:05pm]

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Reply #15 posted 10/09/16 1:45pm

bboy87

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1Sasha said:

MJ was a superbly talented entertainer, but Prince was an artist and entertainer, exceptionally gifted. Prince could do everything. There is no comparison IMO.

[Edited 10/9/16 12:05pm]


The show isn't comparing them. It's more about how they approached music and the what the roundtable loved about them


Two black men who grew up in the midwest who grew up performing and honing their craft to become two of the most successful artists ever and redefined what a male pop star was. Both broke the racial barriers on MTV and radio.

Both shy, released great music, great dancers, wrote their own songs (Although MJ collaborated with other writers and had songwriters write songs for him throughout his career) and heavily involved in the creative process in their albums, videos, and other projects
[Edited 10/9/16 16:13pm]
"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #16 posted 10/09/16 1:47pm

bboy87

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Great job Militant on the show

Prince and Mike were true artists and I still can't imagine and world without them or their work
"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #17 posted 10/09/16 3:36pm

LBrent

2olskool4u said:

nonames said:
All Michael Jackson threads get locked, and this one is a sticky? (All due respect to the MJ Cast and to yourself, by the way, my issue is with how the org is run sometimes...)
Strange that! The mere mention of mj, the mods are all over it like a rash!

I think it's admirable that a spot has been designated for someone other than than P...on a website designed specifically for P.

I'm confused why it appears to be resented that there has been a specific spot designated for...anyone other than P. I get the distinct impression that somehow it's considered not enough. I don't understand that because if I designed a website specifically about knitting named KNITTING.ORG, then generously provided an area where people who knit could also discuss crochetting...What's the problem?

In any event, I agree...MJ was an entertainer. There are many fans of his brand so his appeal to them is on record.

P was an artistist AND an entertainer, amoung many other talents that cannot be disputed.

I've never understood the comparisons however. The only things that I see that they have in common are that they were Black males of a similar age who sang and danced and the beginnings of their solo careers ran parallel during the same time period. Other than that, there isn't much else to compare.

I realize there are fans who like both, but I don't see points of camparison between them any more than comparing P to Madonna or Whitney or Mariah or...

Oh, I should mention...I've seen both in concert many times. No comparison.

[Edited 10/9/16 15:38pm]

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Reply #18 posted 10/09/16 4:07pm

FlyOnTheWall

Purpleone4Eva said:

TheEnglishGent said:

Isn't there already a sticky for this?

Why do things been recently moved to fan meet ups, other artists, or other alternate forums when they're talking about Prince, yet this gets to be a sticky when every single thread which gives a passing mention to MJ gets locked and told to post in the MJ sticky.

It may well be an interesting feature but there needs to be one rule for all, not a separate one just for the moderators.

As an information professional/librarian, I've studied classification and understand the desire for neat categorization. But things here really make me scratch my head. In organizing threads, the user should be thought of first. That includes which forums they're most likely to visit for information. I never go to the fan gatherings area, and would expect like many others for info on tours of paisley park to be in this main forum. Then having a single thread for all things MJ (even when Prince related) is another head scratcher. There's no better way to frustrate a user and ensure discussion is squashed than forcing people to scroll through a long multi-topic thread to see if any discussion is taking place on a particular aspect of the bigger topic.

yes

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Reply #19 posted 10/09/16 4:44pm

LBrent

Purpleone4Eva said:

TheEnglishGent said:

Isn't there already a sticky for this?

Why do things been recently moved to fan meet ups, other artists, or other alternate forums when they're talking about Prince, yet this gets to be a sticky when every single thread which gives a passing mention to MJ gets locked and told to post in the MJ sticky.

It may well be an interesting feature but there needs to be one rule for all, not a separate one just for the moderators.

As an information professional/librarian, I've studied classification and understand the desire for neat categorization. But things here really make me scratch my head. In organizing threads, the user should be thought of first. That includes which forums they're most likely to visit for information. I never go to the fan gatherings area, and would expect like many others for info on tours of paisley park to be in this main forum. Then having a single thread for all things MJ (even when Prince related) is another head scratcher. There's no better way to frustrate a user and ensure discussion is squashed than forcing people to scroll through a long multi-topic thread to see if any discussion is taking place on a particular aspect of the bigger topic.

Conventional wisdom would imply that maybe numerous threads for the purpose of discussing someone other than P on a website specifically designed to discuss P might be better suited to spread out comfortably on a website specifically designed for that someone else. Wouldn't that make more sense than continually bump heads against the perceived ceiling of a P website?

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Reply #20 posted 10/10/16 10:36am

FunkyBrotha

Prince and Michael Jackson were both special

1) they were culturally significant
2) they normalised black music within Europe and the rest of the world
3) they were both born in the same year
4) they both dominated the 80s
5) they were both inspired by similar artists
6) they both performed in falsetto
7) many prince fans were MJ fans and vice versa
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Reply #21 posted 10/10/16 10:39am

FunkyBrotha

And saying Michael Jackson was ' just a performer' and not a musical artist is naive.

Have you listened to his home recordings and demos.

An artist is someone who creates something out of nothing.. Michael did that many many times.

You don't need to be a guitar player to be a musician
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Reply #22 posted 10/11/16 6:12am

laurarichardso
n

FunkyBrotha said:

And saying Michael Jackson was ' just a performer' and not a musical artist is naive. Have you listened to his home recordings and demos. An artist is someone who creates something out of nothing.. Michael did that many many times. You don't need to be a guitar player to be a musician

Prince played more than guitar. The only people who think Michael was this steller musician are MJ fanatics. I have never read one critic state that MJ was some musical genuis as a musician.

I have never read other musicians and entertainers discuss his musicianships. He did not create a genre of music, he was not an enginner, he was not a musician, he was not a record company owner, producer/song writer with a vast catalogue and not a visionary when it came to artist rights,self-distrubtuion or an advocate for anyone.

He was a great dancer, singer, and entertainer.

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Reply #23 posted 10/11/16 7:10am

LuxLove

laurarichardson said:

FunkyBrotha said:

And saying Michael Jackson was ' just a performer' and not a musical artist is naive. Have you listened to his home recordings and demos. An artist is someone who creates something out of nothing.. Michael did that many many times. You don't need to be a guitar player to be a musician

Prince played more than guitar. The only people who think Michael was this steller musician are MJ fanatics. I have never read one critic state that MJ was some musical genuis as a musician.

I have never read other musicians and entertainers discuss his musicianships. He did not create a genre of music, he was not an enginner, he was not a musician, he was not a record company owner, producer/song writer with a vast catalogue and not a visionary when it came to artist rights,self-distrubtuion or an advocate for anyone.

He was a great dancer, singer, and entertainer.


yeahthat

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Reply #24 posted 10/11/16 7:21am

Noodled24

I tried to liisten to this but the podcast just stopped about an hour and 13 mins in.

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Reply #25 posted 10/11/16 7:27am

Noodled24

FunkyBrotha said:

And saying Michael Jackson was ' just a performer' and not a musical artist is naive. Have you listened to his home recordings and demos. An artist is someone who creates something out of nothing.. Michael did that many many times. You don't need to be a guitar player to be a musician



With respect, it difficult to label MJ as a Musician because nobody has ever seen him play an instrument live (correct me if I'm wrong, but please don't point to the pepsi commercial and tell me it's live)

You're right that you don't have to be a guitar player, but you need to play something. I find it hard to believe MJ could spend 50 years in the business and never learn to play anything... but he wasn't willing to be seen playing anything.

It's a shame really because he'd have got so much more respect for it. As a beatboxer he's arguably one of the best... that clip where he sings all the different parts to billie jean I still watch that in disbelief that those sounds are coming from his mouth.

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Reply #26 posted 10/11/16 8:02am

laurarichardso
n

Noodled24 said:

FunkyBrotha said:

And saying Michael Jackson was ' just a performer' and not a musical artist is naive. Have you listened to his home recordings and demos. An artist is someone who creates something out of nothing.. Michael did that many many times. You don't need to be a guitar player to be a musician



With respect, it difficult to label MJ as a Musician because nobody has ever seen him play an instrument live (correct me if I'm wrong, but please don't point to the pepsi commercial and tell me it's live)

You're right that you don't have to be a guitar player, but you need to play something. I find it hard to believe MJ could spend 50 years in the business and never learn to play anything... but he wasn't willing to be seen playing anything.

It's a shame really because he'd have got so much more respect for it. As a beatboxer he's arguably one of the best... that clip where he sings all the different parts to billie jean I still watch that in disbelief that those sounds are coming from his mouth.

but he wasn't willing to be seen playing anything.

Because he was not proficent at any instrument. No musician is going to hide their playing if they are even passable at their instrutment and it is too bad he did not learn I am sure he would have been good.

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Reply #27 posted 10/11/16 1:00pm

heathilly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ke-1_PjJp0

heres a video I found of mj playing piano although you really cant see him well

from 56 seconds to the end

He playing cantaloupe island by herbie hancock

But his ability to play or not play instruments shouldn't make him any less credible as an artist in my opinion he composed through beatboxing and thats what he was good at and he wrote alot of good songs that way.

[Edited 10/11/16 13:14pm]

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Reply #28 posted 10/11/16 1:53pm

laurarichardso
n

heathilly said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ke-1_PjJp0



heres a video I found of mj playing piano although you really cant see him well


from 56 seconds to the end



He playing cantaloupe island by herbie hancock



But his ability to play or not play instruments shouldn't make him any less credible as an artist in my opinion he composed through beatboxing and thats what he was good at and he wrote alot of good songs that way.



[Edited 10/11/16 13:14pm]


Stop with this clip already and no one has ever said MJ had no credibility as a artist because he was not a musicians. He was just not a musician plain and simple it means no more or less than that.
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Reply #29 posted 10/11/16 8:57pm

bboy87

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Noodled24 said:



FunkyBrotha said:


And saying Michael Jackson was ' just a performer' and not a musical artist is naive. Have you listened to his home recordings and demos. An artist is someone who creates something out of nothing.. Michael did that many many times. You don't need to be a guitar player to be a musician



With respect, it difficult to label MJ as a Musician because nobody has ever seen him play an instrument live (correct me if I'm wrong, but please don't point to the pepsi commercial and tell me it's live)

You're right that you don't have to be a guitar player, but you need to play something. I find it hard to believe MJ could spend 50 years in the business and never learn to play anything... but he wasn't willing to be seen playing anything.

It's a shame really because he'd have got so much more respect for it. As a beatboxer he's arguably one of the best... that clip where he sings all the different parts to billie jean I still watch that in disbelief that those sounds are coming from his mouth.



He knew some music theory and played piano on a very basic level but definitely not enough to perform on stage with one.

If we go by the definition of a musician as someone who performs, sings and writes music, then he definitely fits into that category but he was never an instrumentalist for sure. I don't really think he cared about that aspect tbh
"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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