Honestly though, I much preferred his 90's work more than his 80's work. yup i said it. bring in the pitchforks.

it's a pretty interesting era i gotta admit.

joeycocopuffs said:

Honestly though, I much preferred his 90's work more than his 80's work. yup i said it. bring in the pitchforks.

it's a pretty interesting era i gotta admit.

While it's very tempting to go get my pitchfork out of the shed, I'll leave it where it is and say I love your art.

databank said:

oscarchristio777 said:

SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

I was introduced to Prince's 90s work, namely the "Diamonds and Pearls" and "LoveSymbol" album, then researched into his earlier work.

I always visualise a 1991-era Prince (how he looked and dressed in the "D&P" video) rather than a 1984 era Prince, which is his most famous era.

So yeah, considering his 90s music wasn't as up-there with his 80s work, I do enjoy listening to albums like "Come", "Emancipation" and "Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic".

I don't know if I have bad music taste without realising it, or I just have a tendency toward 90s music in general?

Prince really stretched out his musical muscles and delved into playing a wide range of stuff thats what made him extra interesting.

There is nothing wrong with your tendency to the 90's era Prince, I dont think it means you got bad taste. You probably have your reasons why you feel that era is more special for you.

Personally I probably see alltogether the ol school 80's Prince era as the coolest and I think thats probably when he was on his most consistant roll.

But again this possibly has a lot to do with the fact that I discovered him in around 1983 when I myself was in my very early teens and hence I went through all my youthfull years with this connection to Princes music. Still even if I am objective about it I do see that era as being his most consistant.

But I think Prince did some strong stuff in the 90's ...

From the 90's I particuliarly like : Graffitti Bridge, LoveSymbol, Diamonds and Pearls, and Emancipation.

From the 00's I particuliarly like : One Night Alone, The Rainbow Children, 3121, PlanetEarth, LotusFlow3r.

From the 80's I particuliarly like : Dirty Mind, Controversy, 1999, Purple Rain, Around the World in A Day, Parade, Sign of the Times, Lovesexy, Batman.

[Edited 10/6/16 3:26am]

[Edited 10/6/16 3:28am]

[Edited 10/6/16 3:38am]

I agree with you. He also added more jazz sound especially in the mid-90s.

EmmaMcG said:

databank said:

The only reasons why people shit on P's 90's music work is either because:

They can't help comparing it to earlier works without realizing that every artist do evolve, losing some and getting some in the process

or

They're Bruce Springsteen, Bob Dylan or Paul McCartney fans who don't know a thing about Black music, which Prince embraced in the 90's

U're perfectly normal

Well, I am a Bruce Springsteen fan (though I don't like Dylan or McCartney) and I wouldn't claim to be an expert on "black music" but I know what I like. I know what sounds good to me. I like the majority of Prince’s 90's stuff but Love Symbol, save for maybe 3 songs, doesn't appeal to me. The (c)rap is embarrassing, even for the time. Compare Tony M and even Prince himself to A Tribe Called Quest. I'm all for experimentation in music but it was evident from the beginning that as much of a genius as Prince was, rap music was not one of his strong points. Prince was best when doing music he was passionate about. Pretty much every time he chased trends he came up short (no pun intended). However, that's my opinion. Yours may differ. But to say that people don't like his 90's stuff because they are fans of Springsteen etc and know nothing of black music is not only stupid, but very surprising to hear coming from someone who normally has more intelligent arguments to make.

Yeah that was what I found so wrongheaded about the post you're quoting (and I generally find Databank to be a very reasonable and intelligent poster.) I'm not claiming to be an expert on early 90s Hip-Hop and compared to a true head I have a very cursory knowledge of rap from that era but there's a lot of stuff from around that time that I like that shits all over what Prince was doing with the NPG imo (although I have recently developed a certain fondness for Goldnigga.) I Was just listening to Pete Rock & CL Smooth's debut album today, that shit is incredible and far far better than Prince's attempts at the genre at around the same time period. So it's not really a case of my being ignorant about black music but on the whole I don't particularly enjoy how Prince intergrated some of the trends in commerical music into his work at the time (there's a bigger argument to be had imo about defining Prince's 90s output as "blacker" than his 80s which imo is quite a simplistic take on it but I can't be bothered to go into that right now lol.)

I also think it's quite arrogant for people to imply that people who don't enjoy Prince's 90s output are "close-minded" by comparison with those who do, at the end of the day it's all subjective opinion and if someone doesn't enjoy that music then that's that really. Maybe some people who think Prince didn't write a single good song in the 90s are indeed close-minded but you're tarring a lot of people with a broad brush.

I grew up on Prince in the 1980s and I love the 91-95 period too.

Prince was great in the 70s, 80s, 90s, 00, 10s.

.

I really don't know why people have their heads stuck in the 80s - sadly it means they miss out on so much great music.

.

I even listened to TRC today and it was awesome.... lyrically bonkers and deluded but musically incredible!!!

.

It means you're A TOTAL BADASS!

.

#onhere maybe. but i like a lot of his later stuff more than the earlier stuff. it's taken a while to even appreciate it and listen to it with an open mind. other stuff has grown on me.

I would say open minded.

Songs such as:

- Question of U

- Elephant & Flowers

- Joy in Repetion

- Gett Off

- Love to the 9s

- 7

- Come

- The Love We make

- Dreaming About U

- Strange But True

- Love U But I Don't Trust U

- Come On

- Shy

- 319

..are all up there with his best.

However, afterwards, with The Rainbow Children he really rivalled his best 80s work though.

CAL3 said:

databank said:

They're Bruce Springsteen, Bob Dylan or Paul McCartney fans who don't know a thing about Black music

.

.

wow... what an assessment. Nothing like good ol' fashioned, race-based stereotyping. Way to add to the discussion!

This has nothing to do with race, I'm talking musical genres.

EmmaMcG said:

databank said:

The only reasons why people shit on P's 90's music work is either because:

They can't help comparing it to earlier works without realizing that every artist do evolve, losing some and getting some in the process

or

They're Bruce Springsteen, Bob Dylan or Paul McCartney fans who don't know a thing about Black music, which Prince embraced in the 90's

U're perfectly normal

Well, I am a Bruce Springsteen fan (though I don't like Dylan or McCartney) and I wouldn't claim to be an expert on "black music" but I know what I like. I know what sounds good to me. I like the majority of Prince’s 90's stuff but Love Symbol, save for maybe 3 songs, doesn't appeal to me. The (c)rap is embarrassing, even for the time. Compare Tony M and even Prince himself to A Tribe Called Quest. I'm all for experimentation in music but it was evident from the beginning that as much of a genius as Prince was, rap music was not one of his strong points. Prince was best when doing music he was passionate about. Pretty much every time he chased trends he came up short (no pun intended). However, that's my opinion. Yours may differ. But to say that people don't like his 90's stuff because they are fans of Springsteen etc and know nothing of black music is not only stupid, but very surprising to hear coming from someone who normally has more intelligent arguments to make.

The "You say XXX is like that but I'm XXX and I'm not like that" comes up EVERY TIME one tries to talk about a certain category of people, and is therefore unacceptable. It's almost become a different sort of Godwin point in itself.

Rap is nearly absent of the album, and it was hardly chasing trends at all save the occasional bit here and there. Chasing trends would have been to go all new jack swing or hip-hop with drum machines and samples, while instead we have a totally epic, absurdly epic I may even say, record that features mostly live drums and was so experimental in nature that it scared the masses away (everybody was WTF at the time, I remember that). If there's an album that is Prince being himself to the point that he's going to antagonize the masses, it's . D&P certainly was an effort to release an easy to grasp, not-too-risky record. , to WB's dismay, was more a Lovesexy type of record. So basically IDK what you're talking about. As for Tony's rap, while not being memorable, it was not embarrassing at all (do you remember what was on the Top-40 in 1992?!! All the lame rappers popping-up in every possible song for no reason at all?), and wasn't the center of focus for people criticizing Prince at the time (his ego trip was): only hardcore Prince fans were infuriated by Tony back then, the rest of the world seeing in him just another guest rapper in an era when virtually every R&B or dance single had a guest rapper at its end.

We could possibly talk about Gold Nigga and Carmen Electra, which are P's closest attempts to proper rap albums, the first being quite a brilliant record IMHO, in the sense that it did more than trying to emulate commercial rap and really tried to be a hip thing by merging jazz, funk and rap at a time when this was still a very innovative trend (even though P wasn't the only one doing it), and the second being the absolute disaster we know because of Carmen herself, and very lazy songwriting from the part of Prince.

[Edited 10/6/16 22:45pm]

RaspBerryGirlFriend said:

EmmaMcG said:

databank said: Well, I am a Bruce Springsteen fan (though I don't like Dylan or McCartney) and I wouldn't claim to be an expert on "black music" but I know what I like. I know what sounds good to me. I like the majority of Prince’s 90's stuff but Love Symbol, save for maybe 3 songs, doesn't appeal to me. The (c)rap is embarrassing, even for the time. Compare Tony M and even Prince himself to A Tribe Called Quest. I'm all for experimentation in music but it was evident from the beginning that as much of a genius as Prince was, rap music was not one of his strong points. Prince was best when doing music he was passionate about. Pretty much every time he chased trends he came up short (no pun intended). However, that's my opinion. Yours may differ. But to say that people don't like his 90's stuff because they are fans of Springsteen etc and know nothing of black music is not only stupid, but very surprising to hear coming from someone who normally has more intelligent arguments to make.

Yeah that was what I found so wrongheaded about the post you're quoting (and I generally find Databank to be a very reasonable and intelligent poster.) I'm not claiming to be an expert on early 90s Hip-Hop and compared to a true head I have a very cursory knowledge of rap from that era but there's a lot of stuff from around that time that I like that shits all over what Prince was doing with the NPG imo (although I have recently developed a certain fondness for Goldnigga.) I Was just listening to Pete Rock & CL Smooth's debut album today, that shit is incredible and far far better than Prince's attempts at the genre at around the same time period. So it's not really a case of my being ignorant about black music but on the whole I don't particularly enjoy how Prince intergrated some of the trends in commerical music into his work at the time (there's a bigger argument to be had imo about defining Prince's 90s output as "blacker" than his 80s which imo is quite a simplistic take on it but I can't be bothered to go into that right now lol.)

I also think it's quite arrogant for people to imply that people who don't enjoy Prince's 90s output are "close-minded" by comparison with those who do, at the end of the day it's all subjective opinion and if someone doesn't enjoy that music then that's that really. Maybe some people who think Prince didn't write a single good song in the 90s are indeed close-minded but you're tarring a lot of people with a broad brush.

The thing is your reasoning (and Emma's) makes no sense at all in the first place: you are quoting A Tribe Called Quest or Pete Rock & CL Smooth, 2 of the most important hip-hop acts from that era (if not ever), and bands that did pure hip-hop, and then you compare it to Prince albums (D&P and ) that are basically not hip-hop at all but feature certain hip-hop elements here and there, and a guest rapper on some songs, and say this is proof that Prince failed at doing hip-hop, when he just... wasn't. To some extent the reasoning would be like taking the orchestral elements on Parade and saying Prince had failed at doing contemporary classical music by comparison to Steve Reich or Danny Elfman, the only difference being that, of course and I won't deny this, in 91-92 Prince was trying to sound up-to-date by incorporating hip-hop elements into his music, and that gave a certain amount of superficiality to it. But Prince was not making hip-hop, so it's senseless to compare him to the hip-hop giants of that time.

.

Now with Carmen Electra and Gold Nigga Prince really made 2 hip-hop records. And interestingly you yourself admit that you are fond of GN. So when Prince did try to make hip-hop, at least one out of 2 attemps can be considered successful even though certainly not of the level of Public Enemy or NWA. Unfortunately CE was a disaster because in that case, P was after a hit and had no clue what he was doing, when obviously GN was recorded with honesty, without any hope to score a hit.

.

As for Prince embracing his R&B roots in the 90's we could discuss it, I'm open to discussion regarding that point. To me some of the points are that beginning with GB Prince included current R&B trends in his music, that he composed a great deal of songs about racial issues in the early 90's, while there was virtually nothing in his 80's lyrics that mentioned his being Black, that he made more and more covers of R&B classics in the 90's... In the 80's Prince was desperate to cross-over, and to appeal to every audience black and white, and there is a certain level of what I would call European intellectualism (or NY intellectualisme if you will) to his music, from the new wave of DM to the psychedilia of ATWIAD to the house music of Batdance. In the 90's, overall, his musical universe and lyrics reflected a more urban, streets level environment, with more racial concerns and what I would call a very American approach.

.

As for what you and Emma say about my arguments usually being more elaborate or smarter than that, I'll give you that, and I am aware that I am a bit radical, but you have to understand that I've been through 15 years of reading idiots and madmen posting abosulute nonsense on the Org, people being confused to the point of absurdity regarding what was their subjective perception of the world and what is reasonable analysis of factual reality and/or critical thinking. Only on the Org am I confronted to psychotic people like that on a regular basis (hardly ever in real life, very rarely on social networks) and it took its toll. Obviously with reasonable people like you 2 I'm open to conversation, but most of the posts I've read about Prince's work in the 90's, over the course of those 15 years, were utter BS written by people who had no idea what they were talking about, no now when the topic is addressed I feel like sweeping the madmen away from the first post.

[Edited 10/6/16 22:44pm]

databank said:

EmmaMcG said:

databank said:

The "You say XXX is like that but I'm XXX and I'm not like that" comes up EVERY TIME one tries to talk about a certain category of people, and is therefore unacceptable. It's almost become a different sort of Godwin point in itself.

Rap is nearly absent of the album, and it was hardly chasing trends at all save the occasional bit here and there. Chasing trends would have been to go all new jack swing or hip-hop with drum machines and samples, while instead we have a totally epic, absurdly epic I may even say, record that features mostly live drums and was so experimental in nature that it scared the masses away (everybody was WTF at the time, I remember that). If there's an album that is Prince being himself to the point that he's going to antagonize the masses, it's . D&P certainly was an effort to release an easy to grasp, not-too-risky record. , to WB's dismay, was more a Lovesexy type of record. So basically IDK what you're talking about. As for Tony's rap, while not being memorable, it was not embarrassing at all (do you remember what was on the Top-40 in 1992?!! All the lame rappers popping-up in every possible song for no reason at all?), and wasn't the center of focus for people criticizing Prince at the time (his ego trip was): only hardcore Prince fans were infuriated by Tony back then, the rest of the world seeing in him just another guest rapper in an era when virtually every R&B or dance single had a guest rapper at its end.

We could possibly talk about Gold Nigga and Carmen Electra, which are P's closest attempts to proper rap albums, the first being quite a brilliant record IMHO, in the sense that it did more than trying to emulate commercial rap and really tried to be a hip thing by merging jazz, funk and rap at a time when this was still a very innovative trend (even though P wasn't the only one doing it), and the second being the absolute disaster we know because of Carmen herself, and very lazy songwriting from the part of Prince.

[Edited 10/6/16 22:45pm]

The main point I was trying to make was that everyone has different opinions on what they think is good. To dismiss someone's opinion on the basis that they don't know what they're talking about is a little short sighted. The Love Symbol album is a no go for me. Three songs. That's all I like from it. Gold Nigga and Carmen Electra have nothing to offer me. I don't compare them to his 80's work though. I take each album on an individual basis and listen to it and if I like it, I like it. If I don't, I don't. For what it's worth, I think Prince's albums from the mid to late 90's range from good to great. Diamonds and Pearls is just OK in my opinion. Looking at things subjectively, I don't think Prince was a good rapper. Tony M's voice irritates me. But worse than that, and the reason I find it embarrassing, is what they're rapping about. Its childish and frankly, beneath him. I don't agree that Love Symbol was Prince being himself. If it was, he would have continued to put out albums like that in later life when he wasn't so worried about sales. It was about trying to appeal to a younger demographic.

I have to say I do not believe everyone is entitled to having an opinion about everything. I mean they are entitled to the right of having an opinion and voicing it, but they should be prepared to be smoked if they don't know what they're talking about. That's my vision of freedom of speech: the right for anyone to say anything has to be balanced by the right of anyone to dismiss and bash uneducated opinions, or you end-up with idiots ruling the world.

.

Putting aside subjective appreciations, and specifically regarding , one has to acknowledge the dramatic, EPIC qualities of that album: everything on it is so totally exaggerated, lyrically and musically, it's the most daring ego-trip! By comparison one has to look at Carmen Electra, which was obviously conceived by Prince as a female counterpoint to , only what is flamboyant on is gross on CE, because when both music and lyrics on reveal a three-dimentional, emotional fragility behind the arrogance, CE is just a flat statement by a go-go dancer bragging how hot she is (how Prince could achieve such different results from a similar concept, and at the same time mind you, is beyond me! On the other hand there was always an emotional distachment in P's side projects that made them lose some of the strength his solo work had).

.

Now I can understand and respect that you'd feel that a 34 year-old man should and could have been adressing more mature topics than to go on a messianic and sexually driven ego-trip, but at the same time we're talking Prince at a time in his life when, according to biographers, he was at the peak of his fame and very much detached from other people, and the realities of the world. It seems after 1996 and became more down to earth again, and that's most likely why his music and lyrics took other directions. Also, singing things like The Continental would have been gross after a certain age, I guess, and Prince knew better than to make the mistake Madonna made, i.e. still singing in underwear at 55 (and losing a lot of credibility in the process).

.

Musically, is also more ambitious than anything Prince had done earlier: Prince has his most solid band ever and took advantage of it, as well as of the opportunities offered by the Hornheads and MBN's talent as an arranger. It cannot be denied that there are many experimental elements on the album: even though it uses many formulas it's not formulaic at all as a whole, it's all over the place, incorporating elements from a lot of pop genres, and it's not afraid to feature many songs that just ignore the typical verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/verse/chorus structure you'd expect from a mainstream pop album such as that. 3 Chains O' Gold comes to mind but not just that one. The Flow (with its horn,s extravaganza) and Arrogance are everything but your typical hip-hop song, and neither could have been a single. Love 2 The 9's was extremely visionary at the time, jumping from a very harmonic neo-soul to cold hearted hip-hop in the course of a single track. Etc.

.

Everything on is ambitious, expressed with a radical musical and lyrical vocabulary. It's was a very hard record to like for most people back then, because there was little in it they could relate to it, it's got nothing to do with our every day, ordinary lives. It's also quite dark in the end, as in most Prince works you can feel the tension inside the sweetness, as TTD would say, but it's more brutal here than in most other records save maybe The Black Album: there is a lot of sexual and emotional violence in most songs (the blood line in Melt With U alone is... wow!), much more than ordinary folks like to hear when they listen to music for fun.

.

Certainly, Prince was convinced he has a hit with this record (and he did to some extent, though sales most likely beneficiated from the D&P hype and WB's huge efforts to promote the record) but my impression is that he did what he did often at the time: after securing sales with a more accessible record (D&P), he went back to doing exactly what he wanted without caring for sales, assuming that the world would praise him for his genius (and getting mad when the world would not). Fact is that there is no "obvious" single on . D&P had 3 of the most formùulaic, accessible singles in P's career (Cream, D&P and Money). had no such song really: MNIP lacked a melody while not being proper hip-hop either and its message was so openly arrogant that it immediately antagonized most people, Sexy MF was too 70's for 1992 and had the profanity problem, The Morning Papers lacked a proper chorus despite having a catchy melody, 7 was weird with cryptic religious lyrics, and The Continental (which was considered as a single) was probably too overtly sexual to appeal to the masses (who wouldn't have identified themselves to it). In the end Blue Light may have been a better choice of a single than any of those, that's saying

.

The reason why I fancy that record, beyond my personal history with it (it made a crucial impression on me when released, I was 15 and totally blown away), is how radical a work of art it is. It makes no compromise. And there's an incredible amount of energy in it: sexual energy, anger, religious fervor, emotional violence, you get the whole package with a music that's extremely danceable for the most part. Try and listen to the whole album very loud, with your eyes closed, and even better if you're drunk: it's a hell of a journey from start to finish!

.

I'm sorry, I'm not much of a critic and some other people may be better than me at conveying their analysis of a record, but I did my best. I do not hope to convince you or make u like that record any better than you do, but I hope I will have shown you another side of it that, at least intellectually, you may accept as being valid.

[Edited 10/7/16 1:06am]

databank said:

Yewdale said:

joeycocopuffs said:

Honestly though, I much preferred his 90's work more than his 80's work. yup i said it. bring in the pitchforks.

it's a pretty interesting era i gotta admit.

While it's very tempting to go get my pitchfork out of the shed, I'll leave it where it is and say I love your art.

lmao thanks

EmmaMcG said:

databank said:

I have to say I do not believe everyone is entitled to having an opinion about everything. I mean they are entitled to the right of having an opinion and voicing it, but they should be prepared to be smoked if they don't know what they're talking about. That's my vision of freedom of speech: the right for anyone to say anything has to be balanced by the right of anyone to dismiss and bash uneducated opinions, or you end-up with idiots ruling the world.

.

Putting aside subjective appreciations, and specifically regarding , one has to acknowledge the dramatic, EPIC qualities of that album: everything on it is so totally exaggerated, lyrically and musically, it's the most daring ego-trip! By comparison one has to look at Carmen Electra, which was obviously conceived by Prince as a female counterpoint to , only what is flamboyant on is gross on CE, because when both music and lyrics on reveal a three-dimentional, emotional fragility behind the arrogance, CE is just a flat statement by a go-go dancer bragging how hot she is (how Prince could achieve such different results from a similar concept, and at the same time mind you, is beyond me! On the other hand there was always an emotional distachment in P's side projects that made them lose some of the strength his solo work had).

.

Now I can understand and respect that you'd feel that a 34 year-old man should and could have been adressing more mature topics than to go on a messianic and sexually driven ego-trip, but at the same time we're talking Prince at a time in his life when, according to biographers, he was at the peak of his fame and very much detached from other people, and the realities of the world. It seems after 1996 and became more down to earth again, and that's most likely why his music and lyrics took other directions. Also, singing things like The Continental would have been gross after a certain age, I guess, and Prince knew better than to make the mistake Madonna made, i.e. still singing in underwear at 55 (and losing a lot of credibility in the process).

.

Musically, is also more ambitious than anything Prince had done earlier: Prince has his most solid band ever and took advantage of it, as well as of the opportunities offered by the Hornheads and MBN's talent as an arranger. It cannot be denied that there are many experimental elements on the album: even though it uses many formulas it's not formulaic at all as a whole, it's all over the place, incorporating elements from a lot of pop genres, and it's not afraid to feature many songs that just ignore the typical verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/verse/chorus structure you'd expect from a mainstream pop album such as that. 3 Chains O' Gold comes to mind but not just that one. The Flow (with its horn,s extravaganza) and Arrogance are everything but your typical hip-hop song, and neither could have been a single. Love 2 The 9's was extremely visionary at the time, jumping from a very harmonic neo-soul to cold hearted hip-hop in the course of a single track. Etc.

.

Everything on is ambitious, expressed with a radical musical and lyrical vocabulary. It's was a very hard record to like for most people back then, because there was little in it they could relate to it, it's got nothing to do with our every day, ordinary lives. It's also quite dark in the end, as in most Prince works you can feel the tension inside the sweetness, as TTD would say, but it's more brutal here than in most other records save maybe The Black Album: there is a lot of sexual and emotional violence in most songs (the blood line in Melt With U alone is... wow!), much more than ordinary folks like to hear when they listen to music for fun.

.

Certainly, Prince was convinced he has a hit with this record (and he did to some extent, though sales most likely beneficiated from the D&P hype and WB's huge efforts to promote the record) but my impression is that he did what he did often at the time: after securing sales with a more accessible record (D&P), he went back to doing exactly what he wanted without caring for sales, assuming that the world would praise him for his genius (and getting mad when the world would not). Fact is that there is no "obvious" single on . D&P had 3 of the most formùulaic, accessible singles in P's career (Cream, D&P and Money). had no such song really: MNIP lacked a melody while not being proper hip-hop either and its message was so openly arrogant that it immediately antagonized most people, Sexy MF was too 70's for 1992 and had the profanity problem, The Morning Papers lacked a proper chorus despite having a catchy melody, 7 was weird with cryptic religious lyrics, and The Continental (which was considered as a single) was probably too overtly sexual to appeal to the masses (who wouldn't have identified themselves to it). In the end Blue Light may have been a better choice of a single than any of those, that's saying

.

The reason why I fancy that record, beyond my personal history with it (it made a crucial impression on me when released, I was 15 and totally blown away), is how radical a work of art it is. It makes no compromise. And there's an incredible amount of energy in it: sexual energy, anger, religious fervor, emotional violence, you get the whole package with a music that's extremely danceable for the most part. Try and listen to the whole album very loud, with your eyes closed, and even better if you're drunk: it's a hell of a journey from start to finish!

.

I'm sorry, I'm not much of a critic and some other people may be better than me at conveying their analysis of a record, but I did my best. I do not hope to convince you or make u like that record any better than you do, but I hope I will have shown you another side of it that, at least intellectually, you may accept as being valid.

[Edited 10/7/16 1:06am]

Now there's the Databank I know! I know we're veering off topic here but you've convinced me to give it another go. I doubt I'll like it any more than I do but if I'm honest, I haven't listened to it in over a year so maybe it's due a reappraisal. Funny you should mention The Continental, it's one of the songs on the album I like. Maybe it's because I was 2 when the album came out and didn't actually hear it until around 2008 but that sound is something I just couldn't warm to. 3121 is probably to me what Love Symbol is to you. It was the album that made me curious to go back and catch what I missed up to that point.

My 3121 would actually be Batman. I was already a hardcore fan in Fall 1992, about to turn 16. Prince was literally my role model at the time (he would be for a long time) and I leave to your imagination the impact an album as insane as had on that impressionable teen-ager, who literally molded parts of his personality around Prince's lyrics. IDK how u perceived 3121 at the time but I was 29 in 2006, and to me it more a moment when my maturity and Prince's were echoing each other, with a lot of serenity coming from 3121 IMHO, nothing like the hysteria of .

.

In 1992 Prince's music clearly wasn't anymore perceived at being really innovative but it was still getting attention bringing some new things on the plate (typically Love 2 The 9's as I said earlier), and in the context of 92 remained an interesting mixture of typical "princey" elements, trendy elements, mainstream pop and odd things that seemed like out of nowhere. I believe Gold Nigga could have had been received quite well by critics, had it not been released so confidentially (sold at some shows only, then thru mail order). In 1993 mixing jazz, funk and hip-hop was about to become the ultimate hype, with the whole acid-jazz scene from UK on one hand, and the ever-alternative NY scene on the other. Albums by the likes of Guru, Brooklyn Funk Essentials, Buckshot LeFonque, Ronny Jordan, Me'shell or the Red Hot + Cool compilation received a lot of praise back then and Prince had the merit of taking yet another approach on GN (i.e. adding hip-hop elements on traditional grooves instead of adding traditional elements on hip-hop grooves). On the other hand he may also have been criticized as Miles was with Doo Bop: had Doo Bop been the record of a new kid, it would have been acclaimed, but because it was Miles people tended to shrug and say "Miles was trying to sound like the young", quickly forgetting that it was among the very first jazz-rap experiments at that time, therefore very innovative.

.

But back to topic...

The D&P//CE/GN era was only a short a phase that would lead to 2 more important ones IMHO: the Come/TGE era (94-96), then the so-called plastic years (96-01).

To me the Come/TGE era was a return to form of sorts, with Prince getting back to a rawer sound and something of an independent artist's stature that was reminiscent of his early, pre-PR years. It was a fascinating time to be a fan and both his music and career took many surprising directions at that time, directions that one wouldn't have suspected in 1992.

Then the plastic years were universally rejected by fans and critics alike (the general public wasn't even aware of what was going on anymore at that point), and I could go on all night defending P's music during those times (it may be my favorite era on many levels, but I'll admit there is also a strong nostalgia factor), but it had at the very least the merit (or default depending how you see it) of redefining the sound of Prince's music in a way that would last until the very end: in many ways, the sound he embraced in 1996 would last longer and represent much more music than the classic Mpls sound that became P's trademark, and this alone is something that, IMHO, means that future "princeologists" will have to revisit those years with more attention that has been paid by researchers and biographers so far. In a way my feeling was that P's music reached a certain level of stagnation after the short jazz era of 2001-2003 (which doesn't mean I don't like it, but nothing really new happened ever since 2004 except for Josh, but his contributions were an outside element, not Prince himself). At least all throughout the 90's Prince's music was constantly evolving, albeit at a much slower pace than in the 80's. There was still a sense of a musical journey. And the fact that Prince, IMHO, embraced his Black roots in full at that time also brought many new interesting perspectives in his music and lyrics.

.

All I can say is that I was lucky enough to become a Prince fan in the early 90's. While I began with his 80's work I grew-up alongside his 90's music and even though I was aware of the fact that it lacked some of the sheer originality and innovation of his earlier works, I was taking part in a journey and I was open-minded enough to embrace things as they came instead of, as some other would do, be waiting for each album to recreate the "magic" of Prince's earlier years. Yes I had a certain feeling of "it was better before" when listening to most albums for the first time, but after some months I had to realize that nevertheless, each new album had been making my day, day after day, for months, and that I was madly in love with it. What more could have I asked?

I actually enjoy a lot of his '90s albums more than his '80s ones. I love Purple Rain and SOTT, but for some reason his '90s (early '90s in particular) gets a lot more play from me. The only exception to that is probably Lovesexy though- I play that album a hell of a lot.

No love it all!! I am more of a fan of the 80s and 2000s material.

NouveauDance said:

It makes you a fan, welcome to the club of millions.

Pretty much.

If you're looking to feel unique for digging 90's Prince, this is the wrong forum for that.

I tend to listen to the newer music first. I played the 80's stuff so much back in the day I visit it rarely. My car currently carried Plectrum Spectrum (self playlist of 3EG material), HNR II and 20Ten.

SquirrelMeat said:

I tend to listen to the newer music first. I played the 80's stuff so much back in the day I visit it rarely. My car currently carried Plectrum Spectrum (self playlist of 3EG material), HNR II and 20Ten.

I have one called PlectrumAge, that incorporates AOA and PE material. I also mixed "Way Back Home" and affirmation into one track, it's really nice. Before HitNRun stuff was out, I also have "Rock N Roll Love Affair", "Screwdriver" in there, too. I need to flip exchange a few tracks and freshen it up a bit. Here's the initial playlist as I put it in iTunes:

1. WOW
2. Rock and Roll Love Affair (Original Radio Edit) (switching this one out w/ HnR version)
3. MARZ
4. Screwdriver (Intro’d Edit)
   
5. WAY BACK HOME (The Affirmation Blend)
6. FIXURLIFEUP
7. CLOUDS (Speechless Mix)
8. FUNKNROLL (PLECTRUM version)
9. BREAKDOWN
10. ANOTHERLOVE
11. THIS COULD BE US (iffy on this one in this list)
12. Same Page Different Book
13. TIME (iffy)
14. PLECTRUMELECTRUM (gotta pull this one)
    
    

I might add "Da Bourgeoise", "Big City", "Groovy Potential", and "Baltimore". I wanted the early section of the playlist to be more rock oriented. I cut out the tiny bit of silence at the end of "Marz" so it blasts right into "Screwdriver" (which has a short intro). I guess I tended to just put together some of the higher energy songs early on.

The '93/'94 era is already well respected. A lot of P fans would say that was a great, great era. He was prolific and put out a lot of great stuff. Earlier than that (D&P/Symbol), yeah there are great songs to be found obviously but I'm not into it as much. Same with Emancipation up to Rave. It just seemed weaker for whatever reason, but there were still some brilliant songs on all his albums really.

I like Prince's 90's music. Symbol and the Gold Experience are some of my favorite cd. Also like Emancipation and Choas & Disorder

databank said:

EmmaMcG said:

databank said: Well, I am a Bruce Springsteen fan (though I don't like Dylan or McCartney) and I wouldn't claim to be an expert on "black music" but I know what I like. I know what sounds good to me. I like the majority of Prince’s 90's stuff but Love Symbol, save for maybe 3 songs, doesn't appeal to me. The (c)rap is embarrassing, even for the time. Compare Tony M and even Prince himself to A Tribe Called Quest. I'm all for experimentation in music but it was evident from the beginning that as much of a genius as Prince was, rap music was not one of his strong points. Prince was best when doing music he was passionate about. Pretty much every time he chased trends he came up short (no pun intended). However, that's my opinion. Yours may differ. But to say that people don't like his 90's stuff because they are fans of Springsteen etc and know nothing of black music is not only stupid, but very surprising to hear coming from someone who normally has more intelligent arguments to make.

The "You say XXX is like that but I'm XXX and I'm not like that" comes up EVERY TIME one tries to talk about a certain category of people, and is therefore unacceptable. It's almost become a different sort of Godwin point in itself.

Rap is nearly absent of the album, and it was hardly chasing trends at all save the occasional bit here and there. Chasing trends would have been to go all new jack swing or hip-hop with drum machines and samples, while instead we have a totally epic, absurdly epic I may even say, record that features mostly live drums and was so experimental in nature that it scared the masses away (everybody was WTF at the time, I remember that). If there's an album that is Prince being himself to the point that he's going to antagonize the masses, it's . D&P certainly was an effort to release an easy to grasp, not-too-risky record. , to WB's dismay, was more a Lovesexy type of record. So basically IDK what you're talking about. As for Tony's rap, while not being memorable, it was not embarrassing at all (do you remember what was on the Top-40 in 1992?!! All the lame rappers popping-up in every possible song for no reason at all?), and wasn't the center of focus for people criticizing Prince at the time (his ego trip was): only hardcore Prince fans were infuriated by Tony back then, the rest of the world seeing in him just another guest rapper in an era when virtually every R&B or dance single had a guest rapper at its end.

We could possibly talk about Gold Nigga and Carmen Electra, which are P's closest attempts to proper rap albums, the first being quite a brilliant record IMHO, in the sense that it did more than trying to emulate commercial rap and really tried to be a hip thing by merging jazz, funk and rap at a time when this was still a very innovative trend (even though P wasn't the only one doing it), and the second being the absolute disaster we know because of Carmen herself, and very lazy songwriting from the part of Prince.

[Edited 10/6/16 22:45pm]

I agree with a lot of the comments here about the Lovesymbol album, and Im someone who never really got much into hip hop.

For me I thought straight out it was quite a good album, musically a live band sound on lotta tracks , really good production and some really good songs that sequently flowed well and balanced out the album.

I include this album on my preferred 90's era albums.

I think its probably one of the better ones.

I wasnt personally really into Prince's flirting with hip hop that much but as for the poster who equates it with this album then I like point out there was already some rapping on Graffitti Bridge, and Diamonds and Pearls.

I started with Prince in early 80's and Ive said I think that was his most consistant era, but I like

Graffitti Bridge, Diamonds and Pearls, LoveSymbol, {Emancipation but only about 1 cd worth of songs}

Some really nice atmospheric tracks on Come album, but I feel somehow this album feels incomplete, I dont think the track listing balances out so well. Only listen to 3 or 4 songs on it.

Gold Experience has some tracks I quite like eg...shhh, Endorphin machine, and few others but the tracks I dont like I find so annoying they affects my whole impression of the album.

Chaos and Disorder I find not bad, some good stuff, but over all somehow album doesnt balance out well for me, somehow falls short. I felt he was trying to fit in with something in parts of this album.

Rave Albums: couple good tracks, really like Manowar, SoFar SoPleased, otherwise for me very much hit n miss

The Black Album: Im one of the few Prince fans that didnt really dig this album, but "when 2 r in love" is awesome.

I like BobDylan, P.M mostly when he was in Beatles, like some B.Springsteen, but also always like lot of Black Music ... not tooo much Hip Hop, but mostly... Funk Artists, Blues,Soul, RNB,Reggae.

[Edited 10/8/16 1:05am]

[Edited 10/8/16 1:10am]

[Edited 10/8/16 1:13am]

CAL3 said:

I like ALL of his music. The 1990s Prince output was just as important as 1980s Prince, 1970s Prince, 2000s Prince and 2010s Prince. It was a time of change for Prince, moving from being a most releveant and current artist to the cult figure he became in the 2000s.

.

The early 1990s was better than the late 90s, but even that period gave us gems like Come On and Beautiful strange. The thing about Prince and why he has remained a favourite of mine, is that no matter how bad the album was, there was at leat one or two songs that were interesting or blew your head.

.

You're not a weirdo freak for liking the 90s, you're just a really cool fan who obviously understands and digs Prince.

NorthC said:

CAL3 said:

.

.

wow... what an assessment. Nothing like good ol' fashioned, race-based stereotyping. Way to add to the discussion!

Not only that, I'm a fan of both Bob Dylan AND James Brown, Sly Stone, P-Funk. And I'm one of those who thinks Prince's 90s music wasn't as strong as his 80s work. Maybe that is because I do know black music: when I hear a record like Exodus, it makes me think, yeah, Sly and George did that twenty years earlier... He focused more on funky music in the 90s and that made him sound a bit unoriginal compared to his 80s work. And yes, databank does have a point that when you like singer-songwriters, you're probably not going to be impressed by Days of Wild or Now or Funky Design.

He focused more on funky music in the 90s and that made him sound a bit unoriginal compared to his 80s work. And yes, databank does have a point that when you like singer-songwriters, you're probably not going to be impressed by Days of Wild or Now or Funky Design.

He focused more on funky music in the 90s and that made him sound a bit unoriginal compared to his 80s work. And yes, databank does have a point that when you like singer-songwriters, you're probably not going to be impressed by Days of Wild or Now or Funky Design.

I never thought about it the way u put it here, but

yeh Im feelin that.

I still find lots stuff from 90's enjoyable, but I had always felt 80's stuff packed more punch in terms of having a fresh and original feel...

I realise nothing is probably entirely 100% original but there was somehow a particuliar sound and style that pretty much belonged to Prince in the 80's.