Why did it flop? It's the song. It's a great song but sounds forced and tries too hard to be an anthem. If you try to write something for everyone then it means nothing to no one, the best anthems are (paradoxically) very personal and unique but transcend that and mean something to a lot of people and are helped by a large group of people singing together. Gold is more about self-empowerment but that's not what people want to hear in an anthem - still a great song though.

I think it was drowned out by other tracks. People waited a while for that next big hit after The Most Beautiful Girl In The World, but he was fighting against Warner which kinda ruined some promo..and fighting big tracks by Alanis Morissette, Tupac, Biggie, Bone Thugz, TLC....he got lost in the shuffle. P Control did better than any of the singles off this album here in Minnesota. The clubs and bars still play it and is a huge track despite not an official single.

Noodled24 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

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Yeah, crazy how the record company thought they might make some money by releasing something in time for Christmas: a legendary, much-bootlegged album.

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They didn't plan this. Shit just happened.

Yeah... releasing an album every Prince fan already had a copy of. Genius.

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The same can be said about numerous much-bootlegged albums, and yet they get released and talked about etc. Again: this was part of a deal that fell through, and this was salvaged as a "stocking filler". A legendary "lost" album + limited edition + time-limited availability (IIRC) + Christmas = ideal gift for the Prince fan in your family. This really isn't so hard to comprehend.

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I'm not saying they planned it (although logistically speaking they actually did). What I am saying is had they let Prince get on with doing his thing, WBR would have released "Come" which they did anyway. They'd have also had the much more accessible and radio friendly "Gold Experience" which Prince was actively promoting at every opportunity. Within that scenario, all they needed was for the "Come" album to break even.

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At a certain point you just gotta put your foot down and say no. Prince had gotten away with more shit in the early 1990s than most artist in their whole career, and didn't have the sales numbers to back it up. PPR had cost them millions, and here's Prince with another harebrained plan. It's "easy" to look back at all that now, but back then it was alot more complicated. Moreover, WBR was in turmoil due to takeovers etc.

.

Instead they were taking out adverts in Billboard mocking their own artist.

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What ad?

AlgeriaTouchshreek said:

"Fresh Horses!!!" - sorry, saw Garth Brooks album title there and immediately quoted Brian Blessed from Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves.

Never seen it. Garth is on tour now, but cancelled some shows because of Hurricane Matthew

BartVanHemelen said:

The same can be said about numerous much-bootlegged albums, and yet they get released and talked about etc. Again: this was part of a deal that fell through, and this was salvaged as a "stocking filler". A legendary "lost" album + limited edition + time-limited availability (IIRC) + Christmas = ideal gift for the Prince fan in your family. This really isn't so hard to comprehend.

Yet the album didn't really sell.

At a certain point you just gotta put your foot down and say no. Prince had gotten away with more shit in the early 1990s than most artist in their whole career, and didn't have the sales numbers to back it up.

PPR had cost them millions, and here's Prince with another harebrained plan. It's "easy" to look back at all that now, but back then it was alot more complicated. Moreover, WBR was in turmoil due to takeovers etc.

WBR Put their foot down and said "no Prince we're not going to release 2 albums in one year"... then they released 2 albums that year. What point were they trying to prove?

What ad?

The full page advert in billboard magazine. Common knowledge. Use the search.

alphastreet said:

One of his best songs ever, it failed cause he was telling the truth and nobody was ready to hear it.

.

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Surely you jest.

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Right?

Noodled24 said:

The album itself is one of the most cohesive pieces of work he ever produced, not to mention the album also doubling as a message to the entire music industry that when computers became ubiquitous their industry was over. Granted we use the term "playlist" rather than "experience" but other than that the guy was right.

TGE 1994 (released 95)

iTunes 2001.

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Cohesive in what way?

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And how is the "music industry" over because of computers?

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I'm not following your line of thinking. What do you believe he was right about? People listening to music on their computer?

BartVanHemelen said:

Noodled24 said:

The Prince/Warner feud wasn't completely one sided.

They didn't want to put out Come/Gold because it was too much.

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Among other things, yeah. Why would they release two albums, one of them clearly one that Prince would not promote, at the same time, adding to an already bloated discography, shortly after the disappointing sales of The Hits?

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But the same year they released Come, they also released The Black Album. Which was a big fuck you to Prince who'd spent all of 1994 promoting the material on "The Gold Album".

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TBA was the leftover of a deal that included TGE.

How did The Hits do commercially compared to what was expected?

CAL3 said:

Noodled24 said:

The album itself is one of the most cohesive pieces of work he ever produced, not to mention the album also doubling as a message to the entire music industry that when computers became ubiquitous their industry was over. Granted we use the term "playlist" rather than "experience" but other than that the guy was right.

TGE 1994 (released 95)

iTunes 2001.

.

Cohesive in what way?

Cohesive as a band, in the sound of the album.

And how is the "music industry" over because of computers?

You'd have to go and read up on Napster.

I'm not following your line of thinking. What do you believe he was right about? People listening to music on their computer?

About the effect computers would have on music, artists and the industry. Long before mp3s existed.
Radiohead were seen as visionary when they released "In Rainbows" online in 2007. Prince was doing that in the 90s.

leadline said:

dandan said:

The lyrics are childlike and contrived. It's pure cheese, in the worst way. People compare it to Purple Rain but I just don't see it AT ALL! It just doesnt compare. Purple Rain had the movie; that iconic image of him from that time that is as embedded in popular culture as the song itself. I doubt people even knew what P looked like at the time of Gold. The name change didn't help. Purple Rain was exciting. Gold wasn't. The lyrics in Purple Rain are just that perfect blend of ambiguity, empathetic and relatable. What's Purple Rain? It doesn't matter because everyone sings it like they know exactly what it means. The fact it's a live recording from the first night they'd played the song as a band just adds that whole new level of depth, emotion and a certain mythos to it all.

Gold... not so much

Prince even compared it to Purple Rain at one point in the 90's, forgot which interview.

He also said Parade was a bad record.

Let's try to ignore what Prince had to say about his own music.
He sold us every next album like Apple does with a new iPhone.
This is the best record that I have ever done.
And then you get MPLS.

It's just not a single. It's perfect for closing such a big, paranoid album.
As bergowitz said, it's too insular.

It's Prince-o-centric.
At least "Emancipation" is a gospel with a bunch of friends.

If you're into Prince, you can dive in its grandiloquent scenery:
Big fat synths... The mountain mighty high...
But then you have "you cannot see the top unless you fly",
and with it comes a sudden urge to focus on the music only.

What makes you stick is the faith that exsudes from the singing.
Any other singer singing "Gold" would be ridiculous.
It's a one-man tour de force, whereas you'll always picture Wendy
playing the intro of "Purple Rain".
"Purple Rain" is a love song.
"Gold" is a song where Prince seems to coach himself.
There are days when I think "Gold" kicks ass like no other song,
but I think it still requires the indulgence of a long-time fan.

You can apply the theory of "parallel worlds" with SKipper.
In a parallel world, "Dolphin" has reached #1.
In a parallel world, "Life Can Be So Nice" was a Parade single.
etc.

On top of the Warner Wars, we had the Loudness Wars.
While such levels of audio compression may work well on "Exodus"
(much needed to make a 64 tracks piece like "The Exodus Has Begun" clearer),
it's just oppressive on TGE.

Some orgers suggest "Gold" would have been a hit on the radio with proper promotion.
The thing is, no radio is going to air a sound that is already that compressed.

Radios have their own audio compression chain, which levels are already off the roof.
Add the sonic abomination of TGE's mastering, and it becomes inaudible.
It pumps so much you feel like the beat is pumping in reverse.
Kick and snare get damped, and harmonies hiccup in-between beats.


As for Dolphin being a curious choice for a song,
in France the word dolphin is used to describe the heir to the Throne,
in other words, the Prince.
Possibly a play on words on P's part?

leecaldon said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

TBA was the leftover of a deal that included TGE.

How did The Hits do commercially compared to what was expected?

.

Compared to compilations from other artists: dismal. These are the kind of releases that are supposed to do big numbers at Christmas and then continue to be mainstays. There's a Bob Marley album that's the top selling reggae album of the year in just about every year since it has been released decades ago. Madonna's compilations sold millions easily.

Noodled24 said:

CAL3 said:

You'd have to go and read up on Napster.

I'm not following your line of thinking. What do you believe he was right about? People listening to music on their computer?

About the effect computers would have on music, artists and the industry. Long before mp3s existed.
Radiohead were seen as visionary when they released "In Rainbows" online in 2007. Prince was doing that in the 90s.

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I'm not at all convinced TGE explored the effect computers would have on the music industry.

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In fact, none of the content of the album has anything to do with that topic. The now badly-dated (and always intrusive) segues envisioned selecting tracks to listen to from a computer. That's about as exploratory as it got. Otherwise it's a collection of unrelated songs.

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Yes, the music industry has changed as a result of file sharing and the unscrupulous practices of millions who believe music should be "free" - but somehow the music industry is not "over."

BartVanHemelen said:

leecaldon said:

How did The Hits do commercially compared to what was expected?

.

Compared to compilations from other artists: dismal. These are the kind of releases that are supposed to do big numbers at Christmas and then continue to be mainstays. There's a Bob Marley album that's the top selling reggae album of the year in just about every year since it has been released decades ago. Madonna's compilations sold millions easily.

The Hits 1 was the first time, age 14, that I really got an idea of his back catalogue. But couldn't afford to get The Hits 2 (and also assumed that it was the inferior collection).

I'm sure a single disc release, although it would have been vastly inferior, would have done much better commercially (like the terrible Very Best of has).

CAL3 said:

Noodled24 said:

.

I'm not at all convinced TGE explored the effect computers would have on the music industry.

Does your version of the album not have the segues?

In fact, none of the content of the album has anything to do with that topic. The now badly-dated (and always intrusive) segues envisioned selecting tracks to listen to from a computer. That's about as exploratory as it got. Otherwise it's a collection of unrelated songs.

The content? You're right... it's pop/rock/funk.

But the segues laid out the concept. They might sound dated in 2016. But in 1994 very few people had computers. Yet Prince saw that they were going to change the music world forever.

Yes, the music industry has changed as a result of file sharing and the unscrupulous practices of millions who believe music should be "free" - but somehow the music industry is not "over."

He educated a generation of artists. Prior to Prince people were happy with their 360 deals. He was also one of the first to make that direct contact with fans.

leecaldon said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Compared to compilations from other artists: dismal. These are the kind of releases that are supposed to do big numbers at Christmas and then continue to be mainstays. There's a Bob Marley album that's the top selling reggae album of the year in just about every year since it has been released decades ago. Madonna's compilations sold millions easily.

The Hits 1 was the first time, age 14, that I really got an idea of his back catalogue. But couldn't afford to get The Hits 2 (and also assumed that it was the inferior collection).

I'm sure a single disc release, although it would have been vastly inferior, would have done much better commercially (like the terrible Very Best of has).

I mean to be fair "Dismal" paints a picture of a trainwreck.

First, IIRC Prince urged fans no to buy this release. He wasn't happy WB wanted a hits package as he saw them as something an artist did at the end of their career.

In the UK:

The Hits 1 reached #5 on the charts and was on the chart for 36 weeks

The Hits 2 reached #5 on the charts and was on the chart for 32 weeks
The Hits/B-Sides reached #4 on the charts and was on the charts for 18 weeks

One album, gave him 3 top 10 albums and spent a combined total of 86 weeks on the charts. I'm sure there are artists out there who would give their right arm to have such a dismal performance.

[Edited 10/14/16 10:06am]

Noodled24 said:

But the segues laid out the concept. They might sound dated in 2016. But in 1994 very few people had computers. Yet Prince saw that they were going to change the music world forever.

Yes, the music industry has changed as a result of file sharing and the unscrupulous practices of millions who believe music should be "free" - but somehow the music industry is not "over."

He educated a generation of artists. Prior to Prince people were happy with their 360 deals. He was also one of the first to make that direct contact with fans.

.

I think that first point is being a bit overly generous. The concept as executed on the album is quite thin - with the seques serving more as a novelty than anything that suggested the music world was on the verge of worldwide change.

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As to the second point, it's certainly arguable to what degree his business plan impacted other artists. Certainly Prince would've never been in the position to make direct contact with fans had an army of PR people and a major label not spent years and tons of money putting him in that position. I'm not sure his ideas on how to do business were clearly communicated enough to constitute being "educuational." Though provoking, at least, I would say that.

.

Plus all that had nothing to do with the content/concept of the TGE album anyway.

^I dunno, anything that is new or out of the norm constitute a potential "role model" example.
But it comes such after such behaviour has been proven successul.

[Edited 10/14/16 11:42am]

CAL3 said:

Noodled24 said:

.

I think that first point is being a bit overly generous.

On the contrary. Nobody was talkiing about it until Prince wrote slave on his face. Though that isn't played out on the album.

The concept as executed on the album is quite thin - with the seques serving more as a novelty than anything that suggested the music world was on the verge of worldwide change.

If the album was an isolated case I'd agree. But the intro to the Exodus album continues further along the same path when he talks about downloading your work onto fans computers. Again... mp3s at this point (1995) did not exist, and people considered a 1GB hard disk "More space than your could ever possibly need".

Here's Prince saying; actually everyone is going to listen to music on a computer one day, and they'll listen in playlists "Here is a playlist thats great for dancing and improving self esteem" / "Here's a playlist that covers courtship, sex..."

I wouldn't argue that it's a fairly thin concept. But it was also around the time of the Interactive CDROM. So in reality he really was thinking of new ways he could use computers. The interactive CDROM is a good indication of where he would have gone had broadband been a thing back then.

[Edited 10/14/16 14:04pm]

I love Prince and the fact that he went independent but I'm pretty conflicted about his treatment of it.

.

I don't know if I have time to post all I think about it here right now but I will - and I'm someone who is relatively familiar with these things.

.

Will post my feelings later tonight. It will be a novel - and please keep in mind that I love Prince and am not a hater - I just think that he really really jumped the gun on it and didn't understand the business side of certain things. In fact, that may be another thread actually. I suppose a bit of a dissection on this wouldn't really relate to this single. I'll post the thread here though when I create it.

Noodled24 said:

leecaldon said:

The Hits 1 was the first time, age 14, that I really got an idea of his back catalogue. But couldn't afford to get The Hits 2 (and also assumed that it was the inferior collection).

I'm sure a single disc release, although it would have been vastly inferior, would have done much better commercially (like the terrible Very Best of has).

I mean to be fair "Dismal" paints a picture of a trainwreck.

First, IIRC Prince urged fans no to buy this release. He wasn't happy WB wanted a hits package as he saw them as something an artist did at the end of their career.

In the UK:

The Hits 1 reached #5 on the charts and was on the chart for 36 weeks

The Hits 2 reached #5 on the charts and was on the chart for 32 weeks
The Hits/B-Sides reached #4 on the charts and was on the charts for 18 weeks

One album, gave him 3 top 10 albums and spent a combined total of 86 weeks on the charts. I'm sure there are artists out there who would give their right arm to have such a dismal performance.

[Edited 10/14/16 10:06am]

But all sold barely 1 million each... Keep in mind Madonna's greatest hits sold 30 million plus as will as Michael Jackson's History sold over 20 million...

For a greatest hits of an artist of Prince's stature in the music industry, the sales are not too impressive.

feeluupp said:

Noodled24 said:

I mean to be fair "Dismal" paints a picture of a trainwreck.

First, IIRC Prince urged fans no to buy this release. He wasn't happy WB wanted a hits package as he saw them as something an artist did at the end of their career.

In the UK:

The Hits 1 reached #5 on the charts and was on the chart for 36 weeks

The Hits 2 reached #5 on the charts and was on the chart for 32 weeks
The Hits/B-Sides reached #4 on the charts and was on the charts for 18 weeks

One album, gave him 3 top 10 albums and spent a combined total of 86 weeks on the charts. I'm sure there are artists out there who would give their right arm to have such a dismal performance.

[Edited 10/14/16 10:06am]

But all sold barely 1 million each... Keep in mind Madonna's greatest hits sold 30 million plus as will as Michael Jackson's History sold over 20 million...

Jackson is an anomaly not a benchmark. A million (3 million) copies isn't huge but it's also not terrible.

Again... I wonder how deep this goes. Prince wanted to release a 3CD set for years. WB always said no. Then released a 3CD hits set, despite Prince saying he wasn't keen on those kind of compilations. Right around the time he decided he wasn't going to play the hits anymore...

For a greatest hits of an artist of Prince's stature in the music industry, the sales are not too impressive.

Not impressive, but Prince did nothing to support the album. Jackson had several 50 foot statues around the world and a tour to support HIStory. Equally Madonna did a lot to support The Immaculate Collection. In contrast. When WB released the Hits/Bsides Prince stopped playing the hits.

[Edited 10/16/16 6:52am]

Do you think the musical climate also had something to do with it? eg. Country music becoming really mainstream with Shania Twain etc. What were the top selling albums of 1995?

Goddess4Real said:

NorthC said:

Goddess4Real said:

Do you think the musical climate also had something to do with it? eg. Country music becoming really mainstream with Shania Twain etc. What were the top selling albums of 1995?

Go back to page 4. Micky Dolenz was so kind to post the Billboard charts of that year.

Thanks , looking at the charts in 1995 it was a mixed bag back then. I think Gold is a great song, and maybe and it didn't get enough tv and radio exposure (but then again there was the fall out from WB). Also Billboard changed the way they compiled the end of year charts, and that might have played a part. I found this link called FAQs About The Billboard Year End Top 100 Songs Chart http://www.bobborst.com/p...-year/faq/ which explains the changes since 1992.

Noodled24 said:

feeluupp said:

Jackson is an anomaly not a benchmark. A million (3 million) copies isn't huge but it's also not terrible.

.

The FIRST, long awaited compilation of a prolific artist should have sold much more. Selling a million copies is basically what a decent Prince album did at that time without too much effort.

.

Again... I wonder how deep this goes. Prince wanted to release a 3CD set for years. WB always said no. Then released a 3CD hits set, despite Prince saying he wasn't keen on those kind of compilations. Right around the time he decided he wasn't going to play the hits anymore...

.

He'd just done a hits tour in Europe. And there's a massive difference between a 3-LP of new music and a box set of hits hits hits combined with a CD of all those B-Sides, often appearing on CD for the first time. And if that box set was too expensive there were the two individual Hits collections, each fileld to the brim with classics.

.

For a greatest hits of an artist of Prince's stature in the music industry, the sales are not too impressive.

Not impressive, but Prince did nothing to support the album.

.

Bob Marley's been dead for decades. Yet his Legend is usually the best selling reggae album each year. Currently, the album sells approximately 3,000 to 5,000 US copies per week.

.

Jackson had several 50 foot statues around the world and a tour to support HIStory. Equally Madonna did a lot to support The Immaculate Collection. In contrast. When WB released the Hits/Bsides Prince stopped playing the hits.

.

Compilations are supposed to sell without such effort.

BartVanHemelen said:

The FIRST, long awaited compilation of a prolific artist should have sold much more. Selling a million copies is basically what a decent Prince album did at that time without too much effort.

Which iit likely would had it not been such a blatent cash-grab... A Prince hts compilation was released BUT if you want "Purple Rain" & "When Doves Cry" then you need to buy 2 CDs.

He'd just done a hits tour in Europe. And there's a massive difference between a 3-LP of new music and a box set of hits hits hits combined with a CD of all those B-Sides, often appearing on CD for the first time. And if that box set was too expensive there were the two individual Hits collections, each fileld to the brim with classics.

But I'm guessing the 1 CD VBOP sold better? Because it was just the hits people know.

Bob Marley's been dead for decades. Yet his Legend is usually the best selling reggae album each year. Currently, the album sells approximately 3,000 to 5,000 US copies per week

In breaking news, it's confirmed Prince is not Bob Marley.

Compilations are supposed to sell without such effort.

Every album is supposed to sell. I guess WBR got it wrong.

Are you saying Madonna put no effort into promoting the immaculate collection?

[Edited 10/17/16 5:30am]

Noodled24 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

The FIRST, long awaited compilation of a prolific artist should have sold much more. Selling a million copies is basically what a decent Prince album did at that time without too much effort.

Which iit likely would had it not been such a blatent cash-grab... A Prince hts compilation was released BUT if you want "Purple Rain" & "When Doves Cry" then you need to buy 2 CDs.

In breaking news, it's confirmed Prince is not Bob Marley.

Compilations are supposed to sell without such effort.

Every album is supposed to sell. I guess WBR got it wrong.

Are you saying Madonna put no effort into promoting the immaculate collection?

[Edited 10/17/16 5:30am]

.

Oh for crying out loud, they were trying to sum up ten plus years into one package. Look at how fans were bitching about not every single being included etc. Summing up Prince's career at that time in a single disc was just not feasible, especially not if they needed a "safe" album that could be sold without a parental warning sticker.

.

And yes, Madonna did promote TIC. But that set would probably have sold a fuckload anyway, now it went stratospheric. Prince's compilation never went beyond "average" Prince numbers, i.e. it didn't do much business outside of his fan base, and thus it was a disappointment sales-wise. That's simply a fact.

.

Calling TH/TBS a "cash grab" is just absurd. It wasn't like you had to buy all three to get the full collection, you could buy either one or two of the single volumes, or spend a little bit more and buy the "box set" which included more than an hour of rare tunes, including the awesome as fuck "Power Fantastic".

BartVanHemelen said:

Noodled24 said:

Every album is supposed to sell. I guess WBR got it wrong.

Are you saying Madonna put no effort into promoting the immaculate collection?

[Edited 10/17/16 5:30am]

.

Oh for crying out loud, they were trying to sum up ten plus years into one package. Look at how fans were bitching about not every single being included etc. Summing up Prince's career at that time in a single disc was just not feasible, especially not if they needed a "safe" album that could be sold without a parental warning sticker.

But eight years later it became possible to sum up Prince's catalog on the one disc VBOP... which sold better due to being more concise. Rather than a blatent cash grab.

And yes, Madonna did promote TIC. But that set would probably have sold a fuckload anyway, now it went stratospheric. Prince's compilation never went beyond "average" Prince numbers, i.e. it didn't do much business outside of his fan base, and thus it was a disappointment sales-wise. That's simply a fact.

So WBR thought that even though Prince wasn't selling tens of millions of albums (with one exeption in 1984)... if they threw together a hits set it'd just sell tens of millions of copies?

Why do you think it didn't sell?

Calling TH/TBS a "cash grab" is just absurd. It wasn't like you had to buy all three to get the full collection, you could buy either one or two of the single volumes, or spend a little bit more and buy the "box set" which included more than an hour of rare tunes, including the awesome as fuck "Power Fantastic".

The single volumes don't work as "hits" collections. If you want "Purple Rain" AND "When doves cry" you have to buy Volume 1 & Volume two... £32.99 that's practically the definition of a cash crab. It's all about the upsell.

In 2001 they managed to put out (unfeasably as you put it) a 1 CD hits package at a decent price. This is the disc that re-entered the charts anytime he did anything.