lwr001 said:

PeteSilas said:

You'd have to get their opinion from them, themselves. The very day he died, I went to see a band which had Mark Cardenas, ex-time member play. Years ago, he made it clear that he didn't think much of prince in an email i got from him, his death didn't seem to change that. his band played purple rain and no sooner was it over he wanted to play some david bowie saying "he died too" the drummer had to check him by saying "let him have his day". Brown Mark never has seemed to resolve his issues, I looked at his facebook page and it looked like he was in anguish and did mention how he never got past a lot of things but he was distraught.

In Prince's defense, you don't get to where he got by being a nice guy all the time. Music is a very tough, nasty business which is basically so chaotic that you have to be an asshole I think. I'm a musician, I stay away from other musicians because I'm just a nice guy, I can't be as aggressive as everyone else. Another thing, when you have other musicians, they always want to have control over the direction of the band, always. Bands break up, great bands, all the time because someone wants to be the boss/star and isn't getting their ego needs met. I just saw a talented friend go through a band breakup, it's sad to me, all the time and effort you put into something and then people can't get along long enough to get anywhere.

As far as forgiveness, it looks to me like most of the musicians are truly sad that the man's gone, you know, death puts grievances into perspective, makes them seem petty. Wendy and Lisa looked distraught, Morris and the others seemed sad and even Alexander O'neal had kind words for him. I'm sure some people are saying other things in private but at least publicly, I haven't seen anything less than shock and sadness.

um , who cares what Mark fucking Cardenas, bit player , hired hand, has to say

i asked him in the email if it was trut that Prince tried to make him play in Purple Rain in black face, as I'd read. the story goes that Prince threated to fire him if he didn't, Mark didn't budge. He didn't verify that story in his email, he just said something like "prince did a lot of things" and called him "ghetto" and "no genius". Mark is a fine musician but really, there are honestly a million of those. Also, speaking of Mark reminds me of another reason that prince may have been a little overbearing, musicians almost always think they are the best, they have so much attitude, I've never liked most musicians, most of them have the attitude that you ain't even fit to work with me. So, perhaps Prince, knowing this, decided to go in hard right from the git go because musicians is some ridiculous fucks.

purplerabbithole said:

Another thought I had ... if Prince was all that tough of a bandleader, why didn't his players ever stage walkouts during his more vulnerable times. Hear me out. For example, if enough of them walked out during a concert, he would have been unable to find new musicians last minute and quick enough who knew the material-- they could have easily made demands at that point. Its not like he could have sued or fired all of them when he needed them so much at that point. Aren't there musician unions as well?

wendy and lisa actually were in the process of walking out on him, mid tour when he cajoled them back, and once the tour was over, he fired the whole revolution except for Fink.

I watched purple rain for the millionth time last night and during Jungle Love I thought about all the enmity which the time had for P and also how I read that Morris was actually brought to tears in the early days because of Prince's demands on him as a singer and bandleader, this was pre-time as we know it. So, ya, prince was tough but he also knew these guys had it in them and you can't miss the star quality and charisma and cockiness that morris eventually had, none of them would have likely done anything without Prince, that is something I don't forget.

endiadj said:

Whatever with the nonsense from the past. Unless Prince killed their puppy or ran over their granny, they need to grow TFU and move on! Don't care about stupid, immature grudges being held by grown people.

that's life, famous or not that is life

laurarichardson said:

purplerabbithole said:

What did the Time members think would happen when they willingly let P write their first two albums and play all the instrumentation? That he would't want some kind of control over the brand? No one is that generous. Just because someone lets me live in the house they bought, it doesn't mean I own the house.

A grudge would be stupid at this point anyhow. He's dead and now they are free to do whatever they want. I imagine that would generate conflicted feelings. Hell, even a grudge as late as 2015 would be stupid. The people who go see the Time would know who they were even if they changed their name for their new recordings.. Most people I know don't know who MOrris Day and the Time are (using the original name ain't gonnna draw in these people anyhow). They wanted to record new music under the TIme name is my understanding, but Prince wasn't stopping them from performing under the original name. Couldn't they have recorded under the new name but stilll performed as Morris Day and the Time any songs they wanted?

I actually think they should have just changed their name to the "Band formerly known as the TIMe"..that would been hilarious.

[Edited 9/4/16 11:52am]

[Edited 9/4/16 12:01pm]

[Edited 9/4/16 12:03pm]

[Edited 9/4/16 12:03pm]

[Edited 9/4/16 12:07pm]

---- All they had to do was promote the damm CD. Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis would not go out and tour behind the CD. I can't see how that was P 's fault. Anyway Morris was at Paisely Park in January so they probaly patched things up.

I thought it was Jesse Johnson that was the blacksheep on that one?

PeteSilas said:

purplerabbithole said:

Another thought I had ... if Prince was all that tough of a bandleader, why didn't his players ever stage walkouts during his more vulnerable times. Hear me out. For example, if enough of them walked out during a concert, he would have been unable to find new musicians last minute and quick enough who knew the material-- they could have easily made demands at that point. Its not like he could have sued or fired all of them when he needed them so much at that point. Aren't there musician unions as well?

wendy and lisa actually were in the process of walking out on him, mid tour when he cajoled them back, and once the tour was over, he fired the whole revolution except for Fink.

and Mark, Mark quit

In December 2015 Kim Upsher passed away

2 months later February 2016 Vanity passed away

2 months after that Prince passed away

It looks like around December I started hearing more of Prince reaching out to people like Sheila E Morris Day then when Vanity passed he reached out to Jill Jones (who I think was still in the process, a lot of regret and disappointement there) she's going to need to heal.

BrownMark Dr Fink BobbyZ Lisa & Wendy were on friendly terms with Prince when he passed

I believe Cat sometime in the 2000s reconnect with Prince

I don't think Levi & Miko did

Like some others said the 1990's NPG members probably had a rockier existence/experience

OldFriends4Sale said:

PeteSilas said:

wendy and lisa actually were in the process of walking out on him, mid tour when he cajoled them back, and once the tour was over, he fired the whole revolution except for Fink.

and Mark, Mark quit

He said prince offered for him to stay and he just left with the rest right? Can't blame him though, Prince really did treat that man bad, kicked him on stage for breaking a string amongs other things.

OldFriends4Sale said:

In December 2015 Kim Upsher passed away

2 months later February 2016 Vanity passed away

2 months after that Prince passed away

It looks like around December I started hearing more of Prince reaching out to people like Sheila E Morris Day then when Vanity passed he reached out to Jill Jones (who I think was still in the process, a lot of regret and disappointement there) she's going to need to heal.

BrownMark Dr Fink BobbyZ Lisa & Wendy were on friendly terms with Prince when he passed

I believe Cat sometime in the 2000s reconnect with Prince

I don't think Levi & Miko did

Like some others said the 1990's NPG members probably had a rockier existence/experience

interesting thing is, as much of a hard time as prince would give the NPG, tommy barbarella says that prince said, "Oh, you guys got it easy, the Revolution had it hard" the revolution weren't the musicians the NPG was though,

PeteSilas said:

PeteSilas said:

People were awfully forgiving at times of P (even when they were past working with him). He must have been a charismatic dude.

OldFriends4Sale said:

In December 2015 Kim Upsher passed away

2 months later February 2016 Vanity passed away

2 months after that Prince passed away

It looks like around December I started hearing more of Prince reaching out to people like Sheila E Morris Day then when Vanity passed he reached out to Jill Jones (who I think was still in the process, a lot of regret and disappointement there) she's going to need to heal.

BrownMark Dr Fink BobbyZ Lisa & Wendy were on friendly terms with Prince when he passed

I believe Cat sometime in the 2000s reconnect with Prince

I don't think Levi & Miko did

Like some others said the 1990's NPG members probably had a rockier existence/experience

Excellent point.

He never told his side. Maybe, the other musicians were not always as professional or dedicated as they should have been. They are human as well with egos and flaws. Prince couldn't possibly be the only one guilty of pettiness. I almost feels like people like to write his musicans off as a bunch of slaves or minions or constant 'yes' men.

anangellooksdown said:

We can never know what goes on in other people's relationships. People can have motives for their perspectives, and since Prince was really never one to defend himself, we've always been left free to our assumptions. He took a lot of malarkey because of this. But it's also true that you don't get where prince was was being a doormat, and he had a lot to protect. I do remember reading though that he had reached out to a number of people from his past in the last year or two or his life.

It sounds like a kill or be killed mentality. Maybe, that's why musicans can't help but forgive one another.

PeteSilas said:

lwr001 said:

um , who cares what Mark fucking Cardenas, bit player , hired hand, has to say

i asked him in the email if it was trut that Prince tried to make him play in Purple Rain in black face, as I'd read. the story goes that Prince threated to fire him if he didn't, Mark didn't budge. He didn't verify that story in his email, he just said something like "prince did a lot of things" and called him "ghetto" and "no genius". Mark is a fine musician but really, there are honestly a million of those. Also, speaking of Mark reminds me of another reason that prince may have been a little overbearing, musicians almost always think they are the best, they have so much attitude, I've never liked most musicians, most of them have the attitude that you ain't even fit to work with me. So, perhaps Prince, knowing this, decided to go in hard right from the git go because musicians is some ridiculous fucks.

Wasn't that more of an artistic and personal dispute than a labor dispute? In other words, W and L wanted more credit and more input into the music (and the stuff with Susanah as well). Prince eventually fired the Revolution because he wanted to move onto something else. Maybe, I got that wrong but that's the impression I got.

PeteSilas said:

purplerabbithole said:

Another thought I had ... if Prince was all that tough of a bandleader, why didn't his players ever stage walkouts during his more vulnerable times. Hear me out. For example, if enough of them walked out during a concert, he would have been unable to find new musicians last minute and quick enough who knew the material-- they could have easily made demands at that point. Its not like he could have sued or fired all of them when he needed them so much at that point. Aren't there musician unions as well?

wendy and lisa actually were in the process of walking out on him, mid tour when he cajoled them back, and once the tour was over, he fired the whole revolution except for Fink.

PeteSilas said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

In December 2015 Kim Upsher passed away

2 months later February 2016 Vanity passed away

2 months after that Prince passed away

It looks like around December I started hearing more of Prince reaching out to people like Sheila E Morris Day then when Vanity passed he reached out to Jill Jones (who I think was still in the process, a lot of regret and disappointement there) she's going to need to heal.

BrownMark Dr Fink BobbyZ Lisa & Wendy were on friendly terms with Prince when he passed

I believe Cat sometime in the 2000s reconnect with Prince

I don't think Levi & Miko did

Like some others said the 1990's NPG members probably had a rockier existence/experience

interesting thing is, as much of a hard time as prince would give the NPG, tommy barbarella says that prince said, "Oh, you guys got it easy, the Revolution had it hard" the revolution weren't the musicians the NPG was though,

the people though that came after 1987 were riding on the established years. Hoping on the purle rain success. All the previous musicians did the hard work. Were there in the trenches before superstardom. They were the musicians. Not trying to compare anyone, drive passion energy hunger... the Revolution noituloveR had what it took

I read an old interview with Miko in which he responded to the video clip of him and P fighting and the assumption by the press that he had been subsequently fired. He claimed that he and P reconciled in a night club that night and that he told P he was resigning not because of the two of them arguing but because he didn't like the other people around P, that they weren't straight with P. I guess P had told him that he appreciated his straightforwardness and that was why he relied on him to be honest (thus the reason they could fight and be okay). LIke Barbarella said, I think Prince knew that Miko was a soundboard.

Him and Levi didn't reconcile as far as I know.

OldFriends4Sale said:

In December 2015 Kim Upsher passed away

2 months later February 2016 Vanity passed away

2 months after that Prince passed away

It looks like around December I started hearing more of Prince reaching out to people like Sheila E Morris Day then when Vanity passed he reached out to Jill Jones (who I think was still in the process, a lot of regret and disappointement there) she's going to need to heal.

BrownMark Dr Fink BobbyZ Lisa & Wendy were on friendly terms with Prince when he passed

I believe Cat sometime in the 2000s reconnect with Prince

I don't think Levi & Miko did

Like some others said the 1990's NPG members probably had a rockier existence/experience

purplerabbithole said:

Its funny because sometimes it seems like it is okay to insult Prince but not okay to insult someone who works for him. Why I don't care about Mark Cardenas is that it is likely he had limited interaction with Prince.

I am sure some people can have closure. One day I took about a half hour and read Wendy and Lisa Tweets. I found one in 2011 in which they talked lovingly about a two hour conversation they had with Prince at a club. That to me sounded like forgiveness for stuff he had done in the past. Not saying he didn't do anything since then, but he was on the right track.

As for forgiveness, maybe just maybe Prince isn't ALWAYS the one in the wrong? It seems like that was never the case. But we only get only people's sides.

Revolution said:

lwr001 said: Thats all kinds of rude dude. Live better. To answer the OP question, how could anyone have closure with him when he died so suddenly.

thank you...if they are mad at prince, its valid to some people on here..Prince must have done something other than them being overly emo

rogifan said:

purplerabbithole said:

I agree. Its a pretty one-sided take of Prince. I don't agree with where his politics went (in some cases), but he did seem like an easier guy to be around.

I recently re-read the stuff about his working on New Girl (these articles and interviews were released when he was alive) . And everyone seemed to love him on

I remember after P died watching the show The Talk and Sharon Osborne was visibly shaken and close to tears. She talked about what a sweet man he was. Bette Midler said something similar on Twitter. Van Joes was on CNN and HLN practically bawling his eyes out saying if you were in a bad place or things weren't going well for you Prince was the first one there. I do think deep down he was a good guy and I'm glad he was able to get past all this WB/slave stuff which was really unhealthy IMO.

My sister is a Producer..every production person i've encountered who has worked with him has nothing but good things to say Most describe him as very pleasant ..there are way more less than talented peopel who act way extra, he really wasnt one of them

SoulAlive said:

purplerabbithole said:

Another thought I had ... if Prince was all that tough of a bandleader, why didn't his players ever stage walkouts during his more vulnerable times. Hear me out. For example, if enough of them walked out during a concert, he would have been unable to find new musicians last minute and quick enough who knew the material-- they could have easily made demands at that point. Its not like he could have sued or fired all of them when he needed them so much at that point. Aren't there musician unions as well?

He would have quickly agreed to their demands,brought them back onstage to finish the show,then he would have fired them after the show (or after the tour),lol

so, you think that as musicians its ggod to stage a walk out and get work again as hired hands..ok

OldFriends4Sale said:

In December 2015 Kim Upsher passed away

2 months later February 2016 Vanity passed away

2 months after that Prince passed away

It looks like around December I started hearing more of Prince reaching out to people like Sheila E Morris Day then when Vanity passed he reached out to Jill Jones (who I think was still in the process, a lot of regret and disappointement there) she's going to need to heal.

BrownMark Dr Fink BobbyZ Lisa & Wendy were on friendly terms with Prince when he passed

I believe Cat sometime in the 2000s reconnect with Prince

I don't think Levi & Miko did

Like some others said the 1990's NPG members probably had a rockier existence/experience

Dont forgtet Brian Gallagher of hornheads

one thing is for certain, even Londell alluded to it shortly after his passing, Prince didnt play when it came to his stuff nor did he allow anyone else to..Further,,like MJ in BBALL, musi9c was a bloodpsort for him and you'd better be abvle to keep up or i'm sure he would let you know..Shrugs

purplerabbithole said:

Wasn't that more of an artistic and personal dispute than a labor dispute? In other words, W and L wanted more credit and more input into the music (and the stuff with Susanah as well). Prince eventually fired the Revolution because he wanted to move onto something else. Maybe, I got that wrong but that's the impression I got.

PeteSilas said:

wendy and lisa actually were in the process of walking out on him, mid tour when he cajoled them back, and once the tour was over, he fired the whole revolution except for Fink.

i recently read in alan lights book that wendy said the beginning of the end was when Prince caught wendy walking in public with a beer, he chewed her out, and as such, tifs and grievances begin. I think there was also the issue of sexuality with prince screaming to W&L that they would "rot in hell" for being lesbians and then we have Prince's ever blackening his music with horns and Wendy saying it sounded like a soul revue. Like I said, it's pretty simple, with a band, each person wants more and more and more until things reach the breaking point. guarantee you wendy wouldn't have been bithching about anything when she was first hired, she'd never even played a gig right? Prince was a bit of a dick about song credits on sott, he erased some of their work if lore is to be believed.

lwr001 said:

like i said, it's not necessarily all bad when prince was boss, musicians are ridiculous, lazy, addicted so if he had to be an asshole it was probably justified at least 75 percent of the time, the rest is kinda hard to over look but i'm telling all of you, as a musician, i won't even work with musicians in my situation, i don't want to play like that.

lwr001 said:

I hope they all have forgiven Prince and gave whatever issues they had with him to God afterall Prince did give them a chance to shine and because of him the world knows who they are...without Prince their careers may have never happened and thats the truth.

I thought the anti-homosexual stance was much later--during his JW day? and long did it actually continue (considering W and L eventually seemed to forgive him even though they stated that they were unable to forgive a producer who was homophobic?)

After all, as late as 1995, he sang about women kissing each other on the dance floor in 319 and on the Lovesexy tour, he had Cat and Sheila E leave him to walk off with one another hand-in-hand and in a suggestive way during a song.

PeteSilas said:

purplerabbithole said:

Wasn't that more of an artistic and personal dispute than a labor dispute? In other words, W and L wanted more credit and more input into the music (and the stuff with Susanah as well). Prince eventually fired the Revolution because he wanted to move onto something else. Maybe, I got that wrong but that's the impression I got.

i recently read in alan lights book that wendy said the beginning of the end was when Prince caught wendy walking in public with a beer, he chewed her out, and as such, tifs and grievances begin. I think there was also the issue of sexuality with prince screaming to W&L that they would "rot in hell" for being lesbians and then we have Prince's ever blackening his music with horns and Wendy saying it sounded like a soul revue. Like I said, it's pretty simple, with a band, each person wants more and more and more until things reach the breaking point. guarantee you wendy wouldn't have been bithching about anything when she was first hired, she'd never even played a gig right? Prince was a bit of a dick about song credits on sott, he erased some of their work if lore is to be believed.

purplerabbithole said:

I thought the anti-homosexual stance was much later--during his JW day? and long did it actually continue (considering W and L eventually seemed to forgive him even though they stated that they were unable to forgive a producer who was homophobic?)

After all, as late as 1995, he sang about women kissing each other on the dance floor in 319 and on the Lovesexy tour, he had Cat and Sheila E leave him to walk off with one another hand-in-hand and in a suggestive way during a song.

PeteSilas said:

i recently read in alan lights book that wendy said the beginning of the end was when Prince caught wendy walking in public with a beer, he chewed her out, and as such, tifs and grievances begin. I think there was also the issue of sexuality with prince screaming to W&L that they would "rot in hell" for being lesbians and then we have Prince's ever blackening his music with horns and Wendy saying it sounded like a soul revue. Like I said, it's pretty simple, with a band, each person wants more and more and more until things reach the breaking point. guarantee you wendy wouldn't have been bithching about anything when she was first hired, she'd never even played a gig right? Prince was a bit of a dick about song credits on sott, he erased some of their work if lore is to be believed.

The rot in hell comment came from an arugument that had with him about his running around on Susan. I take it as him just shooting back at them for being in his business. I doubt he disliked lesibian since Robyn Power said he loved having her go out and find girls for their get togethers.

"Prince's ever blackening his music with horns and Wendy saying it sounded like a soul revue."

This type of shit from Wendy pissed me off. Even they way she stopped Andre from Jamming the first night of the concerts. WTF is wrong with her more than half of P music is RnB/Funk.