---if so, was Prince instrumental in causing this?

I re-read that Rolling Stone article about P during NPG era..and it didn't paint him in the best way, but the musicans interviewed seemed to understand and attribute his past behavior to insecurity, unhappiness about the WB masters issues, and perfectionism. Plus in their and Prince's defense, Rolling stones' questions were probably slanted that way. Rolling Stone is the opposite of sentimental and probably spent no time asking what was the funniest thing Prince did or about the best time they may have had? And Barbarella stated an interesting thing--he stated that to save face Prince would sometimes gang up on you if you disagreed with him, but that in one-on-one conversation it was very different (more than likely he was referring to the 1990's here). {this statement struck me as proof that perhaps there was a difference between Prince and Prince Rogers Nelson...and Prince was at his most unlikable when those two aspects of his personality conflicted with one another--the name change starts to make sense when you think about it}

Another interview (which not-surprisingly seemed kinder than the RS interview)..with Bland, Barbarella and Thompkins (SIC) after Prince's death stated that Prince had kept in contact with them occassionally working with them. Thompkins was a childhood friend and remained one. Prince saw Barbarella perform I believe and Prince occassionally jammed and recorded with Bland.

Anyhow, my question is...Did Prince make amends (in an indirect or direct way) or did time and his death heal wounds? Was working with these fellas again a sign of good will?

Actually, I did research Bland a bit and he was kinder about Prince in interviews before his death, stating that he liked working with him. He did however admit that the rumors about P were mostly true and stated that Prince was a complicated man like all geniuses.

You'd have to get their opinion from them, themselves. The very day he died, I went to see a band which had Mark Cardenas, ex-time member play. Years ago, he made it clear that he didn't think much of prince in an email i got from him, his death didn't seem to change that. his band played purple rain and no sooner was it over he wanted to play some david bowie saying "he died too" the drummer had to check him by saying "let him have his day". Brown Mark never has seemed to resolve his issues, I looked at his facebook page and it looked like he was in anguish and did mention how he never got past a lot of things but he was distraught.

In Prince's defense, you don't get to where he got by being a nice guy all the time. Music is a very tough, nasty business which is basically so chaotic that you have to be an asshole I think. I'm a musician, I stay away from other musicians because I'm just a nice guy, I can't be as aggressive as everyone else. Another thing, when you have other musicians, they always want to have control over the direction of the band, always. Bands break up, great bands, all the time because someone wants to be the boss/star and isn't getting their ego needs met. I just saw a talented friend go through a band breakup, it's sad to me, all the time and effort you put into something and then people can't get along long enough to get anywhere.

As far as forgiveness, it looks to me like most of the musicians are truly sad that the man's gone, you know, death puts grievances into perspective, makes them seem petty. Wendy and Lisa looked distraught, Morris and the others seemed sad and even Alexander O'neal had kind words for him. I'm sure some people are saying other things in private but at least publicly, I haven't seen anything less than shock and sadness.

PeteSilas said:

You'd have to get their opinion from them, themselves. The very day he died, I went to see a band which had Mark Cardenas, ex-time member play. Years ago, he made it clear that he didn't think much of prince in an email i got from him, his death didn't seem to change that. his band played purple rain and no sooner was it over he wanted to play some david bowie saying "he died too" the drummer had to check him by saying "let him have his day". Brown Mark never has seemed to resolve his issues, I looked at his facebook page and it looked like he was in anguish and did mention how he never got past a lot of things but he was distraught.

In Prince's defense, you don't get to where he got by being a nice guy all the time. Music is a very tough, nasty business which is basically so chaotic that you have to be an asshole I think. I'm a musician, I stay away from other musicians because I'm just a nice guy, I can't be as aggressive as everyone else. Another thing, when you have other musicians, they always want to have control over the direction of the band, always. Bands break up, great bands, all the time because someone wants to be the boss/star and isn't getting their ego needs met. I just saw a talented friend go through a band breakup, it's sad to me, all the time and effort you put into something and then people can't get along long enough to get anywhere.

As far as forgiveness, it looks to me like most of the musicians are truly sad that the man's gone, you know, death puts grievances into perspective, makes them seem petty. Wendy and Lisa looked distraught, Morris and the others seemed sad and even Alexander O'neal had kind words for him. I'm sure some people are saying other things in private but at least publicly, I haven't seen anything less than shock and sadness.

um , who cares what Mark fucking Cardenas, bit player , hired hand, has to say

PeteSilas said:

You'd have to get their opinion from them, themselves. The very day he died, I went to see a band which had Mark Cardenas, ex-time member play. Years ago, he made it clear that he didn't think much of prince in an email i got from him, his death didn't seem to change that. his band played purple rain and no sooner was it over he wanted to play some david bowie saying "he died too" the drummer had to check him by saying "let him have his day". Brown Mark never has seemed to resolve his issues, I looked at his facebook page and it looked like he was in anguish and did mention how he never got past a lot of things but he was distraught.

In Prince's defense, you don't get to where he got by being a nice guy all the time. Music is a very tough, nasty business which is basically so chaotic that you have to be an asshole I think. I'm a musician, I stay away from other musicians because I'm just a nice guy, I can't be as aggressive as everyone else. Another thing, when you have other musicians, they always want to have control over the direction of the band, always. Bands break up, great bands, all the time because someone wants to be the boss/star and isn't getting their ego needs met. I just saw a talented friend go through a band breakup, it's sad to me, all the time and effort you put into something and then people can't get along long enough to get anywhere.

As far as forgiveness, it looks to me like most of the musicians are truly sad that the man's gone, you know, death puts grievances into perspective, makes them seem petty. Wendy and Lisa looked distraught, Morris and the others seemed sad and even Alexander O'neal had kind words for him. I'm sure some people are saying other things in private but at least publicly, I haven't seen anything less than shock and sadness.

You nailed it. I also think Prince was coming around to an understanding that he needed to take the high road more often too, even when his grudges were justifiable. He mellowed a bit with age, but, not that much really. He remained hard on himself even if he was a bit more forgiving with others. A lot of people probably didn't get closure.

lwr001 said:

Its funny because sometimes it seems like it is okay to insult Prince but not okay to insult someone who works for him. Why I don't care about Mark Cardenas is that it is likely he had limited interaction with Prince.

I am sure some people can have closure. One day I took about a half hour and read Wendy and Lisa Tweets. I found one in 2011 in which they talked lovingly about a two hour conversation they had with Prince at a club. That to me sounded like forgiveness for stuff he had done in the past. Not saying he didn't do anything since then, but he was on the right track.

As for forgiveness, maybe just maybe Prince isn't ALWAYS the one in the wrong? It seems like that was never the case. But we only get only people's sides.

Revolution said:

lwr001 said:

um , who cares what Mark fucking Cardenas, bit player , hired hand, has to say

Thats all kinds of rude dude. Live better. To answer the OP question, how could anyone have closure with him when he died so suddenly.

Another thought I had ... if Prince was all that tough of a bandleader, why didn't his players ever stage walkouts during his more vulnerable times. Hear me out. For example, if enough of them walked out during a concert, he would have been unable to find new musicians last minute and quick enough who knew the material-- they could have easily made demands at that point. Its not like he could have sued or fired all of them when he needed them so much at that point. Aren't there musician unions as well?

purplerabbithole said:

Another thought I had ... if Prince was all that tough of a bandleader, why didn't his players ever stage walkouts during his more vulnerable times. Hear me out. For example, if enough of them walked out during a concert, he would have been unable to find new musicians last minute and quick enough who knew the material-- they could have easily made demands at that point. Its not like he could have sued or fired all of them when he needed them so much at that point. Aren't there musician unions as well?

For an artist like MJ, that would be tragic, but all Prince needs to do is grab his acoustic, or sit at the piano, and all is movin along in purple goodness.

I sometimes wonder if Prince ever patched up things with Jellybean Johnson before he died, I remember Jellybean giving some interviews where he seemed really pissed off with Prince, I forget why for most of the reasons but I think that Prince's not letting The Family and The Time use their original names for their new albums played a big part.

Whatever with the nonsense from the past. Unless Prince killed their puppy or ran over their granny, they need to grow TFU and move on! Don't care about stupid, immature grudges being held by grown people.

Yeah, but he was a perfectionist too. I doubt he would want to just bust out an accoustic guitar last minute. He could do it but he wouldn't want to.

leadline said:

purplerabbithole said:

Another thought I had ... if Prince was all that tough of a bandleader, why didn't his players ever stage walkouts during his more vulnerable times. Hear me out. For example, if enough of them walked out during a concert, he would have been unable to find new musicians last minute and quick enough who knew the material-- they could have easily made demands at that point. Its not like he could have sued or fired all of them when he needed them so much at that point. Aren't there musician unions as well?

For an artist like MJ, that would be tragic, but all Prince needs to do is grab his acoustic, or sit at the piano, and all is movin along in purple goodness.

What did the Time members think would happen when they willingly let P write their first two albums and play all the instrumentation? That he would't want some kind of control over the brand? No one is that generous. Just because someone lets me live in the house they bought, it doesn't mean I own the house.

A grudge would be stupid at this point anyhow. He's dead and now they are free to do whatever they want. I imagine that would generate conflicted feelings. Hell, even a grudge as late as 2015 would be stupid. The people who go see the Time would know who they were even if they changed their name for their new recordings.. Most people I know don't know who MOrris Day and the Time are (using the original name ain't gonnna draw in these people anyhow). They wanted to record new music under the TIme name is my understanding, but Prince wasn't stopping them from performing under the original name. Couldn't they have recorded under the new name but stilll performed as Morris Day and the Time any songs they wanted?

I actually think they should have just changed their name to the "Band formerly known as the TIMe"..that would been hilarious.

RaspBerryGirlFriend said:

I sometimes wonder if Prince ever patched up things with Jellybean Johnson before he died, I remember Jellybean giving some interviews where he seemed really pissed off with Prince, I forget why for most of the reasons but I think that Prince's not letting The Family and The Time use their original names for their new albums played a big part.

[Edited 9/4/16 11:52am]

[Edited 9/4/16 12:01pm]

[Edited 9/4/16 12:03pm]

[Edited 9/4/16 12:03pm]

[Edited 9/4/16 12:07pm]

I agree. Its a pretty one-sided take of Prince. I don't agree with where his politics went (in some cases), but he did seem like an easier guy to be around.

I recently re-read the stuff about his working on New Girl (these articles and interviews were released when he was alive) . And everyone seemed to love him on that set--legitimately. It wasn't "he's cool" kind of praise...it was glowing flowerly praise.

(

rogifan said:

I'd love to hear more from band members from the 2000s onward. I don't think Prince in the 90s was in a very good place. I see a lot of anger and not the happiness and joy you got from him later in life. People can hate on Larry all they want or hate that Prince became a JW but I honestly think it made him a better human being.

[Edited 9/4/16 12:16pm]

leadline said:

Well,no one has the right to tell someone how they should or shouldn't feel.They dealt with him WE DIDN'T.People go through an array of emotions its for them to work it out.

Where did anyone say that? My original post was a question not a statement.

destinyc1 said:

Well,no one has the right to tell someone how they should or shouldn't feel.They dealt with him WE DIDN'T.People go through an array of emotions its for them to work it out.

rogifan said:

leadline said:

For an artist like MJ, that would be tragic, but all Prince needs to do is grab his acoustic, or sit at the piano, and all is movin along in purple goodness.

You saying this made me think of something I saw on FB the other day. Apparently Prince was planning another tour that would have been half Prince on piano/guitar and half with full band. How awesome would that have been.

It saddens me that so much will never be. All we can do is continue to celebrate what was.

purplerabbithole said:

HE still could be a diva...don't get me wrong. He was tough on John Blackwell and sometimes Blackwell would need breaks from P. However, he also said that it wasn't long (with him hanging out at home with his wife and kids driving him nuts) before he would contact P to ask if he had any things he needed recorded. In other words, he'd missing hanging with him and working with him. He said he bawled his eyes out when Prince died.. He said P was like a brother and a father. Prince had a tendency to be tougher on male musicians than female musicians which Prince stated was one of the reasons he hired so many females. It must have bothered Prince sometimes when he was tough on people like John. I imagine P would have been pretty upset over Blackwell's recent health issues.

rogifan said:

purplerabbithole said:

I agree. Its a pretty one-sided take of Prince. I don't agree with where his politics went (in some cases), but he did seem like an easier guy to be around.

I recently re-read the stuff about his working on New Girl (these articles and interviews were released when he was alive) . And everyone seemed to love him on

I remember after P died watching the show The Talk and Sharon Osborne was visibly shaken and close to tears. She talked about what a sweet man he was. Bette Midler said something similar on Twitter. Van Joes was on CNN and HLN practically bawling his eyes out saying if you were in a bad place or things weren't going well for you Prince was the first one there. I do think deep down he was a good guy and I'm glad he was able to get past all this WB/slave stuff which was really unhealthy IMO.

[Edited 9/4/16 12:38pm]

[Edited 9/4/16 12:39pm]

[Edited 9/4/16 12:41pm]

purplerabbithole said:

purplerabbithole said:

Another thought I had ... if Prince was all that tough of a bandleader, why didn't his players ever stage walkouts during his more vulnerable times. Hear me out. For example, if enough of them walked out during a concert, he would have been unable to find new musicians last minute and quick enough who knew the material-- they could have easily made demands at that point. Its not like he could have sued or fired all of them when he needed them so much at that point. Aren't there musician unions as well?

I think it's got a lot to do with how much respect they had for him as a musician. He was a pain in the ass, but they understood why he was a pain in the ass for the most part (I'm talking just about the bandleader thing not anything else), and they wanted to play in his band, and carry on playing in his band...because, y'know, it was his band. No one had to work for P, I'm sure they knew what they were getting into, and they still did it, for all the grief it might have been sometimes, because, man, who wouldn't want to play in that band?

purplerabbithole said:

He's worked for him a long time. I think it was around 2000 when he started. I think they had a falling out last year but John basically implied that it was fixable and forgivable...and that he wanted to say sorry to P as well but P. died before he could do so...which was part of the reason he was crying so much.

I agree that he probably just had super high expectations for Blackwell. Prince respected his musicans enough to shout their names out at almost every concernt. SO, I am sure it is exactly what you said. Blackwell is an outstanding drummer (but probably a showboater LOL).

rogifan said:

purplerabbithole said:

HE still could be a diva...don't get me wrong. He was tough on John Blackwell and sometimes Blackwell would need breaks from P. However, he also said that it wasn't long (with him hanging out at home with his wife and kids driving him nuts) before he would contact P to ask if he had any things he needed recorded. In other words, he'd missing hanging with him and working with him. He said he bawled his eyes out when Prince died.. He said P was like a brother and a father. Prince had a tendency to be tougher on male musicians than female musicians which Prince stated was one of the reasons he hired so many females. It must have bothered Prince sometimes when he was tough on people like John. I imagine P would have been pretty upset over Blackwell's recent health issues.

When did John first start working with Prince? He was my favorite NPG drummer. I wonder if sometimes he was hard on people because he knew how good they were and wanted to bring out the best in them. I'm sure like just about anybody sometimes he said things and acted in ways that he latter regretted.

[Edited 9/4/16 13:14pm]

YOu could still play in his band (and respect the hell out of him) and ocassionally stage walk-outs? LOL.

jayseajay said:

purplerabbithole said:

Another thought I had ... if Prince was all that tough of a bandleader, why didn't his players ever stage walkouts during his more vulnerable times. Hear me out. For example, if enough of them walked out during a concert, he would have been unable to find new musicians last minute and quick enough who knew the material-- they could have easily made demands at that point. Its not like he could have sued or fired all of them when he needed them so much at that point. Aren't there musician unions as well?

I think it's got a lot to do with how much respect they had for him as a musician. He was a pain in the ass, but they understood why he was a pain in the ass for the most part (I'm talking just about the bandleader thing not anything else), and they wanted to play in his band, and carry on playing in his band...because, y'know, it was his band. No one had to work for P, I'm sure they knew what they were getting into, and they still did it, for all the grief it might have been sometimes, because, man, who wouldn't want to play in that band?

rogifan said:

purplerabbithole said:

I agree. Its a pretty one-sided take of Prince. I don't agree with where his politics went (in some cases), but he did seem like an easier guy to be around.

I recently re-read the stuff about his working on New Girl (these articles and interviews were released when he was alive) . And everyone seemed to love him on

I remember after P died watching the show The Talk and Sharon Osborne was visibly shaken and close to tears. She talked about what a sweet man he was. Bette Midler said something similar on Twitter. Van Joes was on CNN and HLN practically bawling his eyes out saying if you were in a bad place or things weren't going well for you Prince was the first one there. I do think deep down he was a good guy and I'm glad he was able to get past all this WB/slave stuff which was really unhealthy IMO.

Yeah, the nineties were bad...so much anger. Can't watch most of it, what I love about him just seems so absent, and I agree, whatever reservations we might have about the JW, it clearly helped him get his head together, and get back on form. My take, P basically had an incredibly good heart, he was genuine and generous and kind and funny, nobody with a rotten soul could make music like that...but he had also had a really rough childhood, and as a result was also temperamental, jealous, controlling and a total jerk sometimes, and both of these things are true, and it is why he fell out with a lot of people, and it's also why almost all of those people still loved the hell out of him, and I just feel really bad for those of them that never got a chance to set things right with him, or were in one of the phases when things weren't right when he died.

endiadj said:

Whatever with the nonsense from the past. Unless Prince killed their puppy or ran over their granny, they need to grow TFU and move on! Don't care about stupid, immature grudges being held by grown people.

purplerabbithole said:

Another thought I had ... if Prince was all that tough of a bandleader, why didn't his players ever stage walkouts during his more vulnerable times. Hear me out. For example, if enough of them walked out during a concert, he would have been unable to find new musicians last minute and quick enough who knew the material-- they could have easily made demands at that point. Its not like he could have sued or fired all of them when he needed them so much at that point. Aren't there musician unions as well?

He would have quickly agreed to their demands,brought them back onstage to finish the show,then he would have fired them after the show (or after the tour),lol

rogifan said: