If Prince's drug use was initiated by physical pain, or if his drug use was initiated by anything other than physical pain?

Vox said:

No.

I agree with you. But it seems some people feel quite strongly the other way.

sro100 said:

laurarichardson said:

sro100 said:

If Prince's drug use was initiated by physical pain, or if his drug use was initiated by anything other than physical pain?

-- Here come the pro drug people again with there narrative.

No. Not at all. You're jumping to conclusions.

I just wanted to gauge what people thought and what mattered to them?

That is all.

sro100 said:

Vox said:

No.

I agree with you. But it seems some people feel quite strongly the other way.

I'm with you both. My bigger issue is that big pharma is just a legalized drug dealer. Both parties, whether a dealer on the street or a CEO of Bristol-Myers, want to take your money, and get you hooked on their product. So addiction is addiction, regardless of the source. So I guess it doesn't make any difference to me, no.

My roommate and I have this thing where we mute the TV during a local car dealer's ad (he's beyond annoying), and any drug commercial. Folks should try that sometime. When there's a drug ad, mute your TV. See how long there's silene in your house before you can unmute the sound. All that time, a pretty ad with waves crashing on a shore, people playing in the yard, or riding bikes, or reading books in a perfect coastal bungalow is trying to get you to take a pill or get an injection that could lead to dry mouth, constipation, hair loss, dizziness, irritation or redness at the injection site, a drop in blood pressure, nausea, or death.

At least the street deal doesn't sugar coat the fact that he's trying to get you high and hooked. Prince's death was an accident, and the only conspiracy was his own trying to hide what he was doing. Although, one's medical condition is as private as they want it to be. The mislabeling of the pills is bothersome. It makes it all so pointless.

sro100 said:

If Prince's drug use was initiated by physical pain, or if his drug use was initiated by anything other than physical pain?

.

Yes

.

It somehow seems more tragic when I add the pain to the equation.

.

laurarichardson said:

sro100 said:

sro100 said:

Vox said:

No.

No. Both scenarios hurt .

No, not really.

pain killers are ok, lots of elder people take this....... my mother did when she was alive.. most of her life she was in deep pain... had to take medicine against it, pain..


On the other hand:

drugs are not ok with me, it leads to the road to hell, lots of bad things happens "socially" and with your health.....

Self-medication being the operative word.

If you're self-medicating, or taking a product as strong,
without medical supervision, without regular health checks,
without monitoring any improvement,
then in my book you are doing drugs, and you may already not be aware about your own situation.

There's no way on earth you can self-medicate yourself in an appropriate manner.
OK, maybe the flu (tragicomic pun intended).

But certainly not hip pain, which, some orgers state, is excruciating.
If after some time, you mistake pain relief with being high,
you're not curing yourself, it's a delusion, and I am not sure Prince was completely naive about it or unaware of it.

The Twitter post was revealing. Like someone who has to make his big coming-out,
I think Prince was afraid to go public with his addiction, because it was so contrary
to all his past statements. But the Twitter post was maybe a way to say "I just escaped death, I learned my lesson".

Except in this case you're not fighting with yourself, you're fighting with a substance
that makes sons rub their own mothers, something pure will can't fight alone.
Hence the terrible hate I experience towards any people who understood what was going on,
and chose to look the other way. Or to be so condescendant to think we were gonna buy the fact
that flu requires an ermegency landing.

I can't blame Prince either way. When you're on opiods, whether it was physical or psychological pain
that brought you to it, it's already too late.
His reaction to MJ's death, "I'm too close to it", if true, still leaves me puzzled.

[Edited 9/3/16 15:15pm]

Camille10 said:

sro100 said:

If Prince's drug use was initiated by physical pain, or if his drug use was initiated by anything other than physical pain?

No

love Prince for his music.

Yes and no. If he was trying to manage severe pain and/or ill health, my heart breaks for him and all his true F+F. If he was chasing a high and it got out of control, my heart breaks for him and all his F+F - but I can't deny there would be some level of annoyance at his recklessness. It is like that woman with the migraines - she thought she needed to suck on those fentanyl patches but she now manages with exercise and diet. All she really needed was to get control of it (I know, easy for me to say, harder to do). Why would he risk street drugs for that (and really, from my very very limited experience of opiates (twice in hospital), the heroin was drag (it virtually paralysed me which was infuriating - hours and hours of extreme misery) and the pethidine (obviously much less potent) was nice enough, quite a mellow high, but not all that great - the same as being in a generally good mood (due to your own endorphins) - really not worth risking your life for)?

.

But ultimately, would any scenario change how I felt about him. Not at all. It was his life and he got to decide what risks/decisions to take with it. People aren't so judgemental over people who do risky sports for the adventure/high - but I would still feel annoyance with loved ones if they took any crazy risks and died.

But we know Prince's relationship with opioids had the worst possibe outcome: his death.

I think the OP was getting at something different: If the reason he initially took opiods (pain relief or some other reason) matters to you/us -- e.g., is important to how we judge Prince's life?

bonatoc said:

Self-medication being the operative word.

If you're self-medicating, or taking a product as strong,
without medical supervision, without regular health checks,
without monitoring any improvement,
then in my book you are doing drugs, and you may already not be aware about your own situation.

There's no way on earth you can self-medicate yourself in an appropriate manner.
OK, maybe the flu (tragicomic pun intended).

But certainly not hip pain, which, some orgers state, is excruciating.
If after some time, you mistake pain relief with being high,
you're not curing yourself, it's a delusion, and I am not sure Prince was completely naive about it or unaware of it.

The Twitter post was revealing. Like someone who has to make his big coming-out,
I think Prince was afraid to go public with his addiction, because it was so contrary
to all his past statements. But the Twitter post was maybe a way to say "I just escaped death, I learned my lesson".

Except in this case you're not fighting with yourself, you're fighting with a substance
that makes sons rub their own mothers, something pure will can't fight alone.
Hence the terrible hate I experience towards any people who understood what was going on,
and chose to look the other way. Or to be so condescendant to think we were gonna buy the fact
that flu requires an ermegency landing.

I can't blame Prince either way. When you're on opiods, whether it was physical or psychological pain
that brought you to it, it's already too late.
His reaction to MJ's death, "I'm too close to it", if true, still leaves me puzzled.

[Edited 9/3/16 15:15pm]

[Edited 9/3/16 15:40pm]

sro100 said:

If Prince's drug use was initiated by physical pain, or if his drug use was initiated by anything other than physical pain?

considering he sung about

'I take a pill to wipe away my doubts
But a pill can't cure my bein' alone
Vodka and seven straight to my brain
Put me under false impressions, hide all my pain'

in 1985, no. He battered his body on stage until he needed them to deal with the chronic pain. Whether it was alcohol or pills or just plain adrenaline that got him to that point doesn't really matter.

I don't think drugs help someone "standard" to be more creative.

But on a creative person, it can enhance his creativity.
Sorry, but that's just the way it is.
"Rubber Soul" is a masterpiece and a pure byproduct of smoking Marijuana.
"Heroes" is a masterpiece and a pure byproduct of snorting cocaine.
The Doors, Jimi, Led Zep, the list is endless.

But so is the list of people who died of overdose.

If it was treated as sacred, a bit like the native americans do with Peyotle,
or other tribes with other substances, then maybe O.D. would not exist, who knows.

Is it important to judge Prince's life under the prism of drugs?

I have no evidence that him taking drugs made him violent publicly.
But what about his private life? Do I have the right to put my nose
in old drawers, and consider the way some exs were treated on the account of drugs?
Heck, I dunno from zilch if he was taking drugs or not.

I mean, speculation can go a long way.

What if, "To Trip Is To Fall", the b-side of Wendy & Lisa's "Waterfall",
was directly aimed at Prince, as early as 1987?
What if drugs were the reason The Revolution disbanded?
Probably not, but that tells you how vast a problem this is.

Because if we start to add the possiblity of drugs to Prince's life,
then all the seemingly absurd career moves Prince took
can be easily blamed on drugs. No sane person would cut his own branch,
or write "slave" on his face. Clever career move, or full paranoia mode?

The way he looked so pale and frail during the Warner Wars. That too.

It's a path I would personnally not take.
To dress like that, to behave like that, to be so secret, it's just too tempting :
the most obvious reaction would be : "Oh, no wonder! He was doing drugs".

I'd rather think Prince was acting/dressing/singing the way he did because he was trying to be himself.

If Prince was the way he was because of drugs,
yes, I would be disappointed, no matter the inital reason.
Like learning the great recordman you admired for so long
won his gold medals (or Tours de France) by doping himslef.

[Edited 9/3/16 16:18pm]

Strive said:

sro100 said:

If Prince's drug use was initiated by physical pain, or if his drug use was initiated by anything other than physical pain?

considering he sung about

'I take a pill to wipe away my doubts
But a pill can't cure my bein' alone
Vodka and seven straight to my brain
Put me under false impressions, hide all my pain'

in 1985, no. He battered his body on stage until he needed them to deal with the chronic pain. Whether it was alcohol or pills or just plain adrenaline that got him to that point doesn't really matter.

It's still plausible that the line "listen to the story of a man I am not"
has a real meaning.

After all, Joni singing "Free Man In Paris" in the first person does not mean she actually is David Geffen.
It may be just a figure of writing.
Nice catch though. Very complicated subject.

laurarichardson said:

sro100 said:

If Prince's drug use was initiated by physical pain, or if his drug use was initiated by anything other than physical pain?

-- Here come the pro drug people again with there narrative.

I've seen the term pro drug people used several times. Can you explain what you mean? People who believe that he passed from taking a tainted pill he thought was hydrocodone or people who believe he was a frequent, long term drug user? Or both?

Nooriginalusername said:

laurarichardson said:

sro100 said: -- Here come the pro drug people again with there narrative.

I've seen the term pro drug people used several times. Can you explain what you mean? People who believe that he passed from taking a tainted pill he thought was hydrocodone or people who believe he was a frequent, long term drug user? Or both?

I'm interested too. I'm not pro, but I'm not naive when it comes to substances,
I just feel like we're entitled to some truth.

If it means discussing without petronizing "here we go again"s, I'm all for it, please.

So what precisely is their narrative?
Are you absolutely positive there's only one narrative/possibility/angle of perception to such a complex story?
When it comes to drugs, there's usually a lot (a ghost-looking Gregory, for instance, or a possibly biographic "Little Pill", and the list of potential suspects goes on).

My personal view on this, or rather my deepest hope,
is that painkillers were poison in the first place,
and that he got poisoned litterally, in an absurd twist of fate.
Thinking "just one emergency take doesn't mean I'm not quitting tomorrow", he took a fatal dose without knowing.

But me doesn't count.
Acceptance is acceptance of the truth, whatever this truth may be.

I cannot forgive/understand/love in advance, not knowing what I have to decide upon.
I need to gather the pieces of the puzzle, to make sure my guts are heading the right direction.

But in the end, it would not matter much.
SKipper has already deposited one hundred thousand millions credits at my Understanding Bank agency.

disch said:

sro100 said:

disch said:

GimmeThat said: