I remember reading this and thinking,"Wow, that was a jerk move. What the actual fuck, Prince?"

That happened in 2001. He was 42. Part of me is like, "Maybe he'd matured since then." Other part of me is like, "Lol homeslice was mad she wasn't buying it and called him out for being a jerk." And I quietly wish I could have given her my smart mouth to deal with that quick. Fortunately, I've matured since 2001, too. Mostly, anyway. (Actually, nope, he'd STILL have a problem with me for that right now.)

Interesting read. Thanks for posting that.

"Prince was not like other musicians. He wasn’t like other people. He made 39 studio albums of varying quality and commercial success, yet he viewed them all the same way — as perfect, interchangeable equals. Picking a favorite song is like picking a favorite child, he often claimed. Every track mattered. Every note mattered. They were all essential to the larger plan. And maybe every person was, too. Even a reporter who didn’t really know what she was doing, explaining exactly what he said at a press conference and still — somehow — getting it wrong.

He always knew what he was doing. Always."

Yep. That sums it up perfectly.

Wasn't that right about the time he was new to JW? He was probably trying to explain to her what he meant in terms of what the Bible says.....I mean, have you ever had a JW come to your door? You DONT EVER try to discuss a differing view point, they will talk you in circles...so maybe...that's what happened to her.

[Edited 6/10/16 15:54pm]

"He looked like the mayor of a city invented by Lewis Carroll and sustained through an economy of glam rock."

I like this.

I wish she finished the story. What happened after he stared at her? Did she just leave after that? Did she Prince again later in the evening?

Aww, Prince standing at the back of a room staring at her because he is mad. And he sent someone to tap her shoulders so she would turn around. lol. I don't know why I found this funny, but I did.

I think Prince really wanted to connect his message of God to people. I think he was frustrated when he felt he couldn't do that.

Awwww Prince was trying to glamour her and got mad when he couldnt lololol.



Whoopsie.

CROWNS1 said:

Wasn't that right about the time he was new to JW? He was probably trying to explain to her what he meant in terms of what the Bible says.....I mean, have you ever had a JW come to your door? You DONT EVER try to discuss a differing view point, they will talk you in circles...so maybe...that's what happened to her.

[Edited 6/10/16 15:54pm]

Probably. Sounds like it. It's a rough time dealing with new converts of a lot of things.

Blakbear said:

I remember reading this and thinking,"Wow, that was a jerk move. What the actual fuck, Prince?"

That happened in 2001. He was 42. Part of me is like, "Maybe he'd matured since then." Other part of me is like, "Lol homeslice was mad she wasn't buying it and called him out for being a jerk." And I quietly wish I could have given her my smart mouth to deal with that quick. Fortunately, I've matured since 2001, too. Mostly, anyway. (Actually, nope, he'd STILL have a problem with me for that right now.)

LMAO

In 2001? I would have riled the hell out of him by writing that if he was so into "traditional" gender roles per JWs' ideas why was he selecting gender expressions from a time travel buffet? Sure, dudes wore heels and makeup -- in 1789. Sure men wore eyeliner -- in ancient Egypt. If he's going to tell me about women & pants, I'd fire right back at him about Jesus's lack of pants and spandex. If you're going to time travel to select your gender roles & expression, why would you demand that women stick to 1950s America or the Jetsons or whatever part you're cherrypicking from the Bible? I mean there's Mary but there is also Jael and Mary Magdalene. Time travel buffet gender role selection defeats the whole concept of "opposite" roles; it's incoherent. Then I'd ask him how much of that embrace of those ideas is fueled by a need to have something to define himself against and a wish he had that '50s childhood and fit more readily into those slots (which he never did).

And then I would be auto-banned from all Prince related events for life.

[Edited 6/10/16 20:34pm]

RiotPaisley said:

I've just seen this in posts on the thread, I don't know much about it- I never knew too much about Prince's personal life. I knew more than a casual fan but I haven't read any books and havent had cable since I moved out of my parents so I never really caught interviews and such but... I thought I read that he kinda blamed Mayte for why they didn't have kids. I thought I read something about hair dye and nail polish. Is this possibly why his attitudes shifted about women? I know he was said to be somewhat of a misogynist but I thought that was mostly outside perspecptions and not really the truth. Based on his music I always felt he loved and respected women and treated them as equal, then I read this and remember some of the stuff I tried to pretend never happened. Anyway- I'm of the thought he turned to JW to cope with the loss of the babies and that included taking a stance that women be subservient since I thought I read he kind of blamed Mayte for it. Am I off the mark on this?

Yeah, reading stuff like that article is kind of disappointing, at least to me. While lots of people kept saying he was a misogynist I always defended him as a true supporter of women, respectful and elevating women. Those comments on Mayte are unfortunate if true. I have no idea if JW religion had defined roles for women concerning a more subservient and domestic stance.
Sure, you need to understand your role in the world, not gender wise but human wise.

craft6 said:

Why did he respond that way? I've read a few posts here saying he chilled out as he got older and more mature and while I see that in some aspects, stories like this come out and paint a different picture. Story: http://www.ew.com/article...issa-maerz

I have heard the same thing hundreds of times. ANYONE not agreeing and worshipping Prince gets treated horribly. He was a very controlling, dismissive person. Not a kind, compassionate person if you disagreed with him. No tolerance for those not hanging on his every word.

MMJas said:

RiotPaisley said:

I've just seen this in posts on the thread, I don't know much about it- I never knew too much about Prince's personal life. I knew more than a casual fan but I haven't read any books and havent had cable since I moved out of my parents so I never really caught interviews and such but... I thought I read that he kinda blamed Mayte for why they didn't have kids. I thought I read something about hair dye and nail polish. Is this possibly why his attitudes shifted about women? I know he was said to be somewhat of a misogynist but I thought that was mostly outside perspecptions and not really the truth. Based on his music I always felt he loved and respected women and treated them as equal, then I read this and remember some of the stuff I tried to pretend never happened. Anyway- I'm of the thought he turned to JW to cope with the loss of the babies and that included taking a stance that women be subservient since I thought I read he kind of blamed Mayte for it. Am I off the mark on this?

Yeah, reading stuff like that article is kind of disappointing, at least to me. While lots of people kept saying he was a misogynist I always defended him as a true supporter of women, respectful and elevating women. Those comments on Mayte are unfortunate if true. I have no idea if JW religion had defined roles for women concerning a more subservient and domestic stance.
Sure, you need to understand your role in the world, not gender wise but human wise.

A true supporter of women allowws his wife to wear the dress SHE WANTS, not dictate what she should wear. Prince literally picked out Maytes cloths whenever they went out. He told her what to eat. He tried to do the same with other women, but they were stronger than the child he groomed from 16 years old, thus the turbulant relationships with Vanity etc.

but... if he had shades on, how does she know he was looking at her??

keenly said:

MMJas said:

Yeah, reading stuff like that article is kind of disappointing, at least to me. While lots of people kept saying he was a misogynist I always defended him as a true supporter of women, respectful and elevating women. Those comments on Mayte are unfortunate if true. I have no idea if JW religion had defined roles for women concerning a more subservient and domestic stance.
Sure, you need to understand your role in the world, not gender wise but human wise.

A true supporter of women allowws his wife to wear the dress SHE WANTS, not dictate what she should wear. Prince literally picked out Maytes cloths whenever they went out. He told her what to eat. He tried to do the same with other women, but they were stronger than the child he groomed from 16 years old, thus the turbulant relationships with Vanity etc.

There's 2 sides to that though - yes, it's disturbing to want to have that level of control, but she LET him. She was super young, eager to please, probably went along with whatever he wanted. She likely looked to him for a great deal of guidance in a lot of things, & the shit went overboard (with a personality like his). Who knows...

CalhounSq said:

keenly said:

A true supporter of women allowws his wife to wear the dress SHE WANTS, not dictate what she should wear. Prince literally picked out Maytes cloths whenever they went out. He told her what to eat. He tried to do the same with other women, but they were stronger than the child he groomed from 16 years old, thus the turbulant relationships with Vanity etc.

There's 2 sides to that though - yes, it's disturbing to want to have that level of control, but she LET him. She was super young, eager to please, probably went along with whatever he wanted. She likely looked to him for a great deal of guidance in a lot of things, & the shit went overboard (with a personality like his). Who knows...

Wealth power and fame and genius is no match for a 16 yr old girl whose MOM pimped her to a rockstar...I will always defend Mayte becasue she doesnt even really realize how she was manipulated to this day.

Mayte had no chance to develop her own agency and boundaries at a critical time in her adolesence - its still evident today that she's still a little girl. It's her mother & Princes fault. They essentially trained her to be a damn geisha.

PurpleBabied said:

Blakbear said:

I remember reading this and thinking,"Wow, that was a jerk move. What the actual fuck, Prince?"

That happened in 2001. He was 42. Part of me is like, "Maybe he'd matured since then." Other part of me is like, "Lol homeslice was mad she wasn't buying it and called him out for being a jerk." And I quietly wish I could have given her my smart mouth to deal with that quick. Fortunately, I've matured since 2001, too. Mostly, anyway. (Actually, nope, he'd STILL have a problem with me for that right now.)

LMAO

In 2001? I would have riled the hell out of him by writing that if he was so into "traditional" gender roles per JWs' ideas why was he selecting gender expressions from a time travel buffet? Sure, dudes wore heels and makeup -- in 1789. Sure men wore eyeliner -- in ancient Egypt. If he's going to tell me about women & pants, I'd fire right back at him about Jesus's lack of pants and spandex. If you're going to time travel to select your gender roles & expression, why would you demand that women stick to 1950s America or the Jetsons or whatever part you're cherrypicking from the Bible? I mean there's Mary but there is also Jael and Mary Magdalene. Time travel buffet gender role selection defeats the whole concept of "opposite" roles; it's incoherent. Then I'd ask him how much of that embrace of those ideas is fueled by a need to have something to define himself against and a wish he had that '50s childhood and fit more readily into those slots (which he never did).

And then I would be auto-banned from all Prince related events for life.

Right? I'd totally start asking him about makeup, heels and those frilly ass shirts he insisted on wearing mot of his life. Noooope, son, you don't get to have a crazy idea about how women and men should be traditional if you aren't going to be traditional.

Also, I would have casually flipped him off for staring, and making sure I knew he was staring.

AUTO-BAN.

[Edited 6/10/16 20:34pm]

I've seen a couple of interviews around that time and was a bit startled by what felt like an undercurrent of anger in 2001.

Kevin Smith jokes about it in a talk at Kent State, but the purpose of his "documentary" seemed to be almost a mix of a focus group for a new album, and a captured audience for a JW preaching.

https://youtu.be/8LhcParuzpc

In another long interview, also in 2001, his words are "love Jesus" but feel the anger under those words.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqyjwhFiQqg

Wasn't this around the time Mayte left him? In five years he'd lost two children (the baby son and then an unborn daughter). Then his hand selected wife who it sounds like from what you've all said, he would not allow to grow into a woman.

In the Oprah interview the week their son died, they are on air and cooing to each other. for the cameras. It is hard to imagine how hard that had to have been for Mayte, but she smiled and cooed back at him. He had her head. She trusted and believed him when he said there would be many more children.

In an interview shortly after his death, she talked about the way things fell apart after she lost their second child. A little girl. He withdrew. She could not reach him. That happens to couples after the loss of a child and this couple lost two children. Prince made recordings of their heart beats and wove them into songs.

That is a lot of personal loss and grief.

Around this time his father died, then his mother. Prince remarried and then she left him though he did not want a divorce, according to another story. It is a lot of loss for anyone. If the JW helped him during this time, well done. Later we read that was a bit less compelling and the dogma began to have his own spin on it.

After this time though he seems different in interviews. The Warner contract still hovered overhead, but he seemed lighter. More playful. Not so angry. His performances with Misty Copeland--you know her schedule didn't wait on him--were inspired. She attributes her confidence on stage to him. She said she learned showmanship from him, stage presence (though she apparently had plenty to start).That was almost a decade later.

The idea that he felt each of his musical creations was perfect has to be so. He worked so hard on each, editing and redoing and pulling them together until the final work was as he heard it in his head. Perfectly Prince.

People seemed to want him to be that brash, 20 something forever, but from the stories and the work he matured into his genius. A full human being. Watching the few live performances available online, you see he was his music. He moved from sensational showman to pure vibrations in the air that is music. Amazing. Sorry this is so long.

Wow, what a great article by Melissa Maerz-- I like that she presents it as two people trying to understand each other. Some positives to take away are that, while Prince may have been a jerk here, he was upfront and honest with her (even the act of walking away in a huff is an honest response that was not lost on her in this article, even if it may have taken her some years of reflection to see). At least he didn't kick her out or have her removed from the premises, haha. He walked away and let her be. Maybe he was just too angry, but it does sound as if her column and her thoughts really gave him some food for thought.

CalhounSq said:

keenly said:

A true supporter of women allowws his wife to wear the dress SHE WANTS, not dictate what she should wear. Prince literally picked out Maytes cloths whenever they went out. He told her what to eat. He tried to do the same with other women, but they were stronger than the child he groomed from 16 years old, thus the turbulant relationships with Vanity etc.

There's 2 sides to that though - yes, it's disturbing to want to have that level of control, but she LET him. She was super young, eager to please, probably went along with whatever he wanted. She likely looked to him for a great deal of guidance in a lot of things, & the shit went overboard (with a personality like his). Who knows...

Tina LET Ike beat her by your logic, she did not leave.

Prince was an abuser. Face the facts.

To me, this was heartbreaking. I was too shy and too green as a journalist to challenge him on it in front of the room. And honestly, I was a little afraid I’d get kicked out of the room. But later, I went back to my office and wrote a column. It was terribly written. Hey, I was 22 years old. But this was the gist of it: How can someone who so revolutionized gender roles with his androgynous style and fluid, freeing approach to sexuality suddenly insist that we should all stick to ‘ “traditional” values?

Thanks, Jehovah Witnesses!!!

keenly said:

CalhounSq said:

There's 2 sides to that though - yes, it's disturbing to want to have that level of control, but she LET him. She was super young, eager to please, probably went along with whatever he wanted. She likely looked to him for a great deal of guidance in a lot of things, & the shit went overboard (with a personality like his). Who knows...

Tina LET Ike beat her by your logic, she did not leave.

Prince was an abuser. Face the facts.

Wow - so you're comparing beating someone's ass to telling them what to wear? That's a stretch. Here's what I'll face - that I wasn't in their relationship & don't know wtf happened, no one really knows but THEM. You should face some facts yourself

I agree w/ the whole grooming thing that terrig brought up though, forgot about that...

keenly said:

CalhounSq said:

There's 2 sides to that though - yes, it's disturbing to want to have that level of control, but she LET him. She was super young, eager to please, probably went along with whatever he wanted. She likely looked to him for a great deal of guidance in a lot of things, & the shit went overboard (with a personality like his). Who knows...

Tina LET Ike beat her by your logic, she did not leave.

Prince was an abuser. Face the facts.

I read somewhere he told his wife what to eat, too. That's where the crap would STOP you know? I didn't know he was abusive, but I figured so.