BillieBalloon said:

I've been revisiting the D&P album and listening to the songs and lyrics it seems this album is more fan orientated than any other. Yes I know it was intended to be a commercial success and it was. But I'm talking about the whole vibe was like "This is for you". Even the two girls are fans i.e the gett off video where they turn up pretending to be there for an audition when really they're just fans thinking they're going to a gig. Fan girls. What do you think? There are a lot of positive messages.

I think it would have been a great record w/o Tony M. He ruined both D&P and

D&P was in response to rap hitting the scene hard during that time. That is why Tony M was all over the place, same with the symbol album, and that is why Prince was rapping himself in places. Don't get me wrong, I adore both those albums, but I disagree that they were for the fans.

[Edited 5/25/16 8:36am]

To be honest, I think it was more for the "non again fans".

leadline said:

BoraBora said:

suomynona said:

The album was for his record company, to reassure that he still can produce commercial successful music. It was the last album under his old contract with WB, and his sales were dwindling for a couple of years (except for the batman soundrack).

He wanted to show WB that he can still produce hits, because he wanted a new and better contract. And he got his "100 million dollar contract" the next year.
Unfortunately prince didn't read the fineprint of the contract, didn't listen to friends and consultants who warned him, and began bitching about his record company.

BoraBora said:

To be honest, I think it was more for the "non again fans".

I also think it was to appeal to casual fans and radio listeners. The song Cream sums it up... Make some hits, nothing too complex, sell some records.

I get a little of that fan vibe too. I also agree that it was very much a commercial appeal...It still remains my favorite Prince album and album artwork

BillieBalloon said:

BoraBora said:

To be honest, I think it was more for the "non again fans".

I'm not sure what you mean... [Edited 5/25/16 8:47am]

I see D&P as the first album P made specifically with an eye to trends and mainstream to reach new audience and new fans (and new commercial success).

For all the rap rigamarole on that album, the actual song "Diamonds and Pearls" is the most sophisticated piece of music he may have ever written. It has FOUR different time signatures in it. FOUR. Wow!

BillieBalloon said:

leadline said:

D&P was in response to rap hitting the scene hard during that time. That is why Tony M was all over the place, same with the symbol album, and that is why Prince was rapping himself in places. Don't get me wrong, I adore both those albums, but I disagree that they were for the fans.

[Edited 5/25/16 8:36am]

You think if he really wanted to do something for fans he would have done purple rain: the sequel? Or Sott rides again? I don't think he would ever have gone back like that even though he knew how much his fans love that stuff.

Of course not, he would never go back and do a sequel album, he does not repeat himself. He does his albums for himself though, we are just along for the ride, if we dig it, we dig it, if we don't, we don't. Around The World In A Day is proof of that, fans wanted Purple Rain 2, he hit them with the complete opposite of that. D&P was simply how Prince sounded during that time, and in my opinion, was a reactionary album to the music that was happening in the industry during that time period. Much like how Purple Rain was how he sounded during that time, neither of those albums done for fans, although Purple Rain of course he was setting the music trend, and not following it. Now the live shows, those for both of us.

Regardless of reactionary music or the trend setting music opinion, D&P and Symbol are amongst my favorites.

BillieBalloon said:

Whether you liked it or not is another matter, I still think it was his most fan orientated album

Final musical results apart, I think this award must be given to "MPLSOUND".

ludwig said:

The album was for his record company, to reassure that he still can produce commercial successful music. It was the last album under his old contract with WB, and his sales were dwindling for a couple of years (except for the batman soundrack).

He wanted to show WB that he can still produce hits, because he wanted a new and better contract. And he got his "100 million dollar contract" the next year.
Unfortunately prince didn't read the fineprint of the contract, didn't listen to friends and consultants who warned him, and began bitching about his record company.

.

I totally agree. When his feet is put to the fire, Prince can write a very catchy, very radio friendly, pop song. "Cream", and "Gett Off" were evidence of that. While "Insatiable" wasn't the best of his ballads, it certainly trumps others, and deserves a spot in the echelon of Prince ballads.

.

After the Lovesexy Tour lost money, Graffiti Bridge was an unmitigated disaster, The Nude Tour losing money and not toured in the U.S. at all - Prince needed a hit, badly. "Batdance" wasn't enough to sustain his credibility at the record company. People can argue about dollars vs. art all day, but art doesn't keep the lights on at Paisley Park. Cash flow does. You could see the revamping of his image, his band, and his need to promote something worthwhile by 1991. Diamonds and Pearls was just that. It wasn't a fan album, it was a record company album to prove himself again. And he did.

.

His biggest undoing was going off on less than stellar tangents, once he gets a #1 hit in his back pocket, and does right back down hill again with sales and public interest. He does something that fans might appreciate, but that radio or any other media outlet can't really use. What's a fan album then? Come, ATWIAD, Exodus. What a record company album? Purple Rain, 1999, D&P, The Gold Experience. (Not even touching The Vault or Chaos And Disorder, or the contractual obligation argument here.)

i have absolutely no problem at all with songs like "cream", "gett off" or "diamonds & pearls",
i absolutely love all the prince songs and i don't even mind the ones that tony is on too much.
songs like "daddy pop" and "live 4 love" are nice enough to not be hurt too much by his raps.
sure, i'd like versions of those songs without the rap or with prince doing the rapping himself,
in his own style.

"willing and able", he's actually quite a nice fit, it's one of the most enjoyable tony features

the only songs on that album i loathe are "jughead" and "push". if those were replaced with a
couple of pure, quirky prince songs that were non-commercial and weird, i'd reach for this cd

a bit more i guess.

this is one of the reasons i've been kind of sad that almost no outtakes from this period were

ever released afterward. like on Crystal Ball for instance, there's nothing from 1990/1991 iirc.
i'm sure there's about a dozen prince solo tracks from this era we never even heard about

as it is, i still like it, but i hardly listen to it for some reason. whenever the songs pop up on
shuffle i enjoy them a lot.

TrivialPursuit is right.

Prince needed a hit with D&P. So he made a very commercial record, and on top of that? He hired Michael Jackson's former manager Frank Dileo to ensure it was a hit. And that's exactly what Frank did.

ludwig said:

The album was for his record company, to reassure that he still can produce commercial successful music. It was the last album under his old contract with WB, and his sales were dwindling for a couple of years (except for the batman soundrack).

He wanted to show WB that he can still produce hits, because he wanted a new and better contract. And he got his "100 million dollar contract" the next year.
Unfortunately prince didn't read the fineprint of the contract, didn't listen to friends and consultants who warned him, and began bitching about his record company.

This. This was Prince wanting to sell to the masses, as in those outside of his fanbase. One of the least 'for the fans' albums of his career.

And in my opinion, it's one of his worst, though I love Money Don't Matter 2 Night!

I agree with TrivialPursuit and Ludwig. This was definitely a very commercial, record company friendly album. Remember that he wrote Gett Off in particular to prove a point after the record company´s initial reaction to the album was rather lukewarm.

As far as Tony M is concerned....I doubt that his input contributed anything to Prince´s music or that he made Prince more trendy. Rappers and rap fans always had respect for Prince, most of them anyway, and if he wanted to be more accepted by them or rap listeners he could have achieved that by staying true to himself, not hiring some wannabe like Tony. Back then, Prince didn´t really "get" rap. But he learned real quick.

ON D and P, Prince played ball and I mean that in a good way. He produced expensive, well-made videos. He released the right, radio-friendly singles. It was a very safe record but I am a big fan of the record because I like the commercial side of Prince. Prince from the Graffiti Bridge era to the D and P era was in a completely different mode. D and P shows what Prince could have been commercially if he wanted it to be so. Symbol was edgier and Prince chose I believe the wrong first signle (My Name is Prince was trying to hard to be like what was on the radio) except for 7. It dulled the momentum a little bit of that album commerically and from there is was one battle after another with Warner. Other than TMBGITW, the commercial momentum Prince created with D and P was short-lived. But if Prince wanted to be bigger commerically he could have been. He could have spaced two or three years between each album, created more of an event with each commercial release. Fact is, it wasn't a huge priority.

I would love it so much more, if only...

I guess I don't have to say why - it's been covered.

Genesia said:

I would love it so much more, if only...

I guess I don't have to say why - it's been covered.

.

Let me guess, if only there was more Tony M on it?

I don't think there is such thing as an "album for the fans" we're such a diverse bunch everyone wants something different.

I don't think D&P is a particularly commercial album. There are 4 VERY obvious hit singles. There are two more that are radio friendly.

After those you're left with

Thunder

Daddy Pop

Strollin'

Walk Don't Walk

Jughead

Push

Live4Love

I don't think any of them were written with the charts in mind.

PurpleColossus said:

Genesia said:

I would love it so much more, if only...

I guess I don't have to say why - it's been covered.

.

Let me guess, if only there was more Tony M on it?

Yeah - that's it.

Noodled24 said:

I don't think there is such thing as an "album for the fans" we're such a diverse bunch everyone wants something different.

I don't think D&P is a particularly commercial album. There are 4 VERY obvious hit singles. There are two more that are radio friendly.

After those you're left with

Thunder

Daddy Pop

Strollin'

Walk Don't Walk

Jughead

Push

Live4Love

I don't think any of them were written with the charts in mind.

Well...you do have a point there.

By the way, are you familiar with the first configuration of that album? When Gett Off was still Glam Slam 91? Even though it´s basically the same album it has a totally different vibe and I doubt it would have been the success that the later configuration of Diamonds and Pearls was.

Can´t even believe that he thought that the previous configuration would make a decent album...to me it sounded all over the place and very sketchy.

GottaLetitgo said:

ON D and P, Prince played ball and I mean that in a good way. He produced expensive, well-made videos. He released the right, radio-friendly singles. It was a very safe record but I am a big fan of the record because I like the commercial side of Prince. Prince from the Graffiti Bridge era to the D and P era was in a completely different mode. D and P shows what Prince could have been commercially if he wanted it to be so. Symbol was edgier and Prince chose I believe the wrong first signle (My Name is Prince was trying to hard to be like what was on the radio) except for 7. It dulled the momentum a little bit of that album commerically and from there is was one battle after another with Warner. Other than TMBGITW, the commercial momentum Prince created with D and P was short-lived. But if Prince wanted to be bigger commerically he could have been. He could have spaced two or three years between each album, created more of an event with each commercial release. Fact is, it wasn't a huge priority.

Totally agree with you on the Symbol album. Such great songs, such a tight band, but marred by the wrong choice for the first single, the ridiculous storyline and Kirstie Alley segues, and Tony M.

It´s still a great album but the timing of the singles and the choices were all a bit odd in hindsight.

-

I actually enjoyed the commercial appeal of the D&P album and to some extent that of the Symbol album (which was later called Love Symbol on a Peach 45 rpm single´s cover).

Great videos, lots of remix maxis, lots of different versions ( Violet the Organ Grinder, etc.). Bonus tracks ( Clockin the Jizz, Get Some Solo), classy clothes, a very tight and spectacular show.

All in all, I quite liked it. If it wasn´t for Tony M. and all the hypeman antics and Hip Hop emceeing stuff. That was very unnecessary.

I never really liked "Gett Off" and dislike it more even now. One of my favorite Prince songs ever is "Strollin'" Such a fun, whimsical tune that shows a lovely side of his personality!

Always makes me feel

PurpleColossus said:

Genesia said:

I would love it so much more, if only...

I guess I don't have to say why - it's been covered.

.

Let me guess, if only there was more Tony M on it?

.

Someone apparently removed him from D&P, & albums. Hmmmmm.

.

http://prince.org/msg/7/327166

TrivialPursuit said:

PurpleColossus said:

.

Let me guess, if only there was more Tony M on it?

.

Someone apparently removed him from D&P, & albums. Hmmmmm.

.

http://prince.org/msg/7/327166

Tony M...the Jar Jar Binks of Prince's band members.

I was surprised that he didn't tour for "D & P" in the States. He did great on Arsenio's show... MTV, BET, and VH-1 played many of the videos and the title track was played heavily on R&B radio (next to Mariah and Whitney). I guess by the end of 1991 he was already done and was ready to move on.