jaypotton said:

Gonna stick my neck out here and say... most of the stuff in the Vault should never see the light of day, I have hundreds of unreleased songs. Without doubt some are absolute gems BUT a lot of them are awful. Curiosities at best but certainly not worthy of release. Prince was music and lived for music. His leisure time was spent recording or performing (and recording what he performed) but this was often just for fun. can't really speak for what was recorded post Warner Bros as Prince's security seemed to miraculously tighten up once he was out of contract...but I reckon I have the vast majority of unreleased material from the WB years. the general quality of material from the 80s outstrips the material from the 90s for my money (remember he officially released vastly more material during the 90s compared to the 80s suggesting that what was left in the vault was literally the out takes and left overs. Anyway, no doubt there is a good number of quality tracks that can be carefully curated and released that will enhance Prince's legacy but I truly and genuinely hope the rest does not come out as IMHO it could damage his legacy.

mix the good with the "bad" and box set 'em....

EyeOfOlympus said:

I would laugh so hard if the majority of the stuff in the "vault" was most the stuff from the "ivault" that's been available for some time anyway now.

May I ask why?

dalboy2 said:

Interesting viewpoint http://blogs.spectator.co...very-good/ There’s a good reason why Prince didn’t release his archive – most of it isn’t very good Prince at the Ritz, New York, 1981. Photo: Gary Gershoff/Getty Images Prince’s vast archive of unreleased music is legendary. The ‘vault’ in Paisley Park, the late musician’s home-cum-studio complex in suburban Minneapolis, contains thousands of hours of recordings that have never seen the inside of a tape deck. The unpublished music tells a story. Material was shelved when band members left, after the tragic death of his newborn son, and at the end of his first marriage. Some projects were cancelled for more prosaic (commercial and legal) reasons. The Black Album, which was abandoned in mysterious circumstances a week before it was due to be released, became one of the most bootlegged records of all time. Because so much of the vault’s contents have leaked over the years, fans with realistic expectations know roughly what will be available posthumously. They also know that most of the tracks that were banished were simply not good enough, and Prince’s untimely death doesn’t change that. The vault is worth very much more as a concept – a myth – than the sum of the recordings inside it, the very best of which would nicely fill a double disc set. Between 1982 and 1989 Prince created an unparalleled amount of work. He developed and perfected a distinct and instantly recognisable style which influences the sound of popular music to this day. Everything he released in this period was a critical and commercial success, and some of the outtakes are as good, if not better, than what was published. Unfortunately, Prince had no idea what to do with the gold mine he created. ‘Extraloveable’ is an illustrative case. Originally recorded (but not released) in 1982, it is one of the finest examples of his signature sound, in which old school funk meets new-wave pop. The lyrics – rape threats and all – are spat at the microphone in an urgent, breathy falsetto. A sanitised, easy-listening version was included on his most recent album last year. It wouldn’t sound out of place in the repertoire of a hotel jazz band. The raw energy of the original is entirely lost. This is nothing short of vandalism, and it’s awful to imagine what, in his dotage, he might have done to other gems in the vault. How could he have ruined ‘Electric Intercourse,’ the bittersweet piano ballad that was almost included on Purple Rain? What horrors could he inflict on ‘All My Dreams’, the surreal synth opera that should have been the final track on Sign o’ the Times? As a live performer and bandleader Prince was unparalleled, but his recent studio efforts have been hit-and-miss, to put it diplomatically. He peaked creatively 30 years ago, which explains the vault’s mythical appeal to his army of devoted fans. He was still capable of creating interesting music (several of the tracks on 2014’s Art Official Age are reminiscent of his best work from the nineties) but he was no longer innovative. His legacy is best preserved by someone else, someone who isn’t embarrassed by his past. Someone who doesn’t shy away from lyrics about incest, masturbation and ‘rivers’ of menstrual blood. Someone who understands the importance of the Minneapolis sound, and the effect that it had on a generation of musicians. Anyone other than Prince.

That was a weird piece. He goes in saying most of the vault material isn't very good, and he ends up saying it's great, but it would have been ruined by Prince, had he released it himself.

Yeah, weird.

dalboy2 said:

Interesting viewpoint http://blogs.spectator.co...very-good/ There’s a good reason why Prince didn’t release his archive – most of it isn’t very good Because so much of the vault’s contents have leaked over the years, fans with realistic expectations know roughly what will be available posthumously. They also know that most of the tracks that were banished were simply not good enough, and Prince’s untimely death doesn’t change that.

The writer of that article, Daniel Jackson, comes off as a typical known-it-all that doesn't know what he's talking about. We haven't even heard most of what's in the vault because most of the songs weren't stolen from Pailsey Park and bootleged in the '80s and '90s, unless Susan Rogers is lieing when she says, "When I left in 1987, it was nearly full. Row after row of everything we’d done. I can’t imagine what they’ve done since then."

[Edited 5/8/16 14:47pm]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_PRINCE_ESTATE_QA?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

In this article, the Associated Press notes that regarding the Bremer trust. they are likely tallying up whatever may be in the vault.

I wonder if we'll ever see a fraction of what's in the vault.

Will it ever make financial sense for Prince's exectutors to do it? To catalogue the (presumably) thousands of hours of recordings?

To repair degraded tapes / clean up the audio / mix the tracks.

And then how much can they expect to recoup by actually releasing them, physically or on a virtual service? It probably is just the hardcore who would pay, given the state of the music industry generally - and the commercial performance of eg AOA - and I wonder how far our money would go in terms of paying for the archive to be cleaned up and released.

I can see a few songs / demos making it out as parts of deluxe reissues of existing albums (All My Dreams on a Parade reissue etc)... but I wonder if most of it will be lost forever.

Hope I'm wrong.

eyewishuheaven said:

dalboy2 said:

Interesting viewpoint http://blogs.spectator.co...very-good/ There’s a good reason why Prince didn’t release his archive – most of it isn’t very good Prince at the Ritz, New York, 1981. Photo: Gary Gershoff/Getty Images Prince’s vast archive of unreleased music is legendary. The ‘vault’ in Paisley Park, the late musician’s home-cum-studio complex in suburban Minneapolis, contains thousands of hours of recordings that have never seen the inside of a tape deck. The unpublished music tells a story. Material was shelved when band members left, after the tragic death of his newborn son, and at the end of his first marriage. Some projects were cancelled for more prosaic (commercial and legal) reasons. The Black Album, which was abandoned in mysterious circumstances a week before it was due to be released, became one of the most bootlegged records of all time. Because so much of the vault’s contents have leaked over the years, fans with realistic expectations know roughly what will be available posthumously. They also know that most of the tracks that were banished were simply not good enough, and Prince’s untimely death doesn’t change that. The vault is worth very much more as a concept – a myth – than the sum of the recordings inside it, the very best of which would nicely fill a double disc set. Between 1982 and 1989 Prince created an unparalleled amount of work. He developed and perfected a distinct and instantly recognisable style which influences the sound of popular music to this day. Everything he released in this period was a critical and commercial success, and some of the outtakes are as good, if not better, than what was published. Unfortunately, Prince had no idea what to do with the gold mine he created. ‘Extraloveable’ is an illustrative case. Originally recorded (but not released) in 1982, it is one of the finest examples of his signature sound, in which old school funk meets new-wave pop. The lyrics – rape threats and all – are spat at the microphone in an urgent, breathy falsetto. A sanitised, easy-listening version was included on his most recent album last year. It wouldn’t sound out of place in the repertoire of a hotel jazz band. The raw energy of the original is entirely lost. This is nothing short of vandalism, and it’s awful to imagine what, in his dotage, he might have done to other gems in the vault. How could he have ruined ‘Electric Intercourse,’ the bittersweet piano ballad that was almost included on Purple Rain? What horrors could he inflict on ‘All My Dreams’, the surreal synth opera that should have been the final track on Sign o’ the Times? As a live performer and bandleader Prince was unparalleled, but his recent studio efforts have been hit-and-miss, to put it diplomatically. He peaked creatively 30 years ago, which explains the vault’s mythical appeal to his army of devoted fans. He was still capable of creating interesting music (several of the tracks on 2014’s Art Official Age are reminiscent of his best work from the nineties) but he was no longer innovative. His legacy is best preserved by someone else, someone who isn’t embarrassed by his past. Someone who doesn’t shy away from lyrics about incest, masturbation and ‘rivers’ of menstrual blood. Someone who understands the importance of the Minneapolis sound, and the effect that it had on a generation of musicians. Anyone other than Prince.

That was a weird piece. He goes in saying most of the vault material isn't very good, and he ends up saying it's great, but it would have been ruined by Prince, had he released it himself.

Yeah, weird.

Agreed. Writing like this always comes across as having one purpose: to attract eyes and provoke reaction of any kind.

Robbajobba said:

Robbajobba said:

I wonder if we'll ever see a fraction of what's in the vault.

Will it ever make financial sense for Prince's exectutors to do it? To catalogue the (presumably) thousands of hours of recordings?

To repair degraded tapes / clean up the audio / mix the tracks.

And then how much can they expect to recoup by actually releasing them, physically or on a virtual service? It probably is just the hardcore who would pay, given the state of the music industry generally - and the commercial performance of eg AOA - and I wonder how far our money would go in terms of paying for the archive to be cleaned up and released.

I can see a few songs / demos making it out as parts of deluxe reissues of existing albums (All My Dreams on a Parade reissue etc)... but I wonder if most of it will be lost forever.

Hope I'm wrong.

It's a valid argument, however we need to see on the long run. I doubt that the material will be lost forever: given the importance of Prince as an artist I could even imagine a fund being created, or kickstater projects to allow the material to be made available to those who are interested in it. Logic would dictate that whomever ends-up being in charge will focus on the most accessible and profitable material. When it comes to more obscure material there will come a time when it becomes an ethics vs. money argument, i.e. Prince's work has to be saved from destruction and progressively made available regardless of profits. But it may happen long after we're all gone. It's truly hard to know how history will treat the legacy of major pop stars on the long run because there is no precedent in human history, but Prince's sessionography has already been researched in a manner more obsessive than most pop artists, and I believe this is an indication of the fact that a lot of people will see a historical interest in preserving it and making it available.

We'll definitely see album remasters with additioanl material, then there will be large expensive box-sets of certain eras. then hopefully some unreleased albums such as Roadhouse Garden.

or just set up a PRINCE ARCHIVES series vol1-100. and just released them yearly.

I'd call it

Prince: The Legendary Vault

Dandroppedadime said:

We'll definitely see album remasters with additioanl material, then there will be large expensive box-sets of certain eras. then hopefully some unreleased albums such as Roadhouse Garden.

or just set up a PRINCE ARCHIVES series vol1-100. and just released them yearly.

I'd call it

Prince: The Legendary Vault

Maybe Geraldo Rivera could open the vault on live TV ::rimshot::

If it were me, and it were finanacially feasible;

I'd have a Paisley Park digital store online where the bulk of the tracks would eventually go. Update it gradually over time as more tracks were digitized and cleaned up.

Then you could have discs released once a year or something... covering each era, a CD-worth (or two) of the best released that would, in effect, not only bring in profit of it's own but direct others toward the PP website where more could be purchased.

The roll out would take years and years of course... and include live material, videos, etc...

he said himself he didnt give reco co best material to release...so there goes the theory the vault sucks

Keep The Faith, Purple Army!

Lets face it, in the right hands and with the right promotion, the next release has the potential to be big and a commercial success. And if the right album is chosen that captures the imagination of the younguns out there, it could be the start of a very viable run of commercial success. However, if whoever gets control starts releasing obscure stuff with little commercial value then it wont be long before we are back to square one where all the revenue comes from us lot alone, and the rest of the world carries on in complete ignorance. Personally I would prefer the latter but Im not naive enough to think that someone may want/need to make big buck out of this and try and milk it for everything they can.

Have you heard the top 5 songs on Billboard? Nothing today sounds like Prince (except that "Purple Rain" was number 4)

..but the other songs that top the charts are barely listenable by me! How would 80's or 90's Prince compete with that?

It would have to be remixed and put in a blender before it would chart. Which, it my very humble opinion, is very sad indeed.

.

I love Prince, always will

I'm probably in the minority as I'm still new here. And it may be too soon to indeed want material but the Act 2 tour is actually first on my personal list of wants. I got giddy as hell when it was said he recorded most if not all his live tours or concerts! I hope that's true. I need that tour. I have a "certain video" but it's from the crowd.

heymistermusic said:

Have you heard the top 5 songs on Billboard? Nothing today sounds like Prince (except that "Purple Rain" was number 4)

..but the other songs that top the charts are barely listenable by me! How would 80's or 90's Prince compete with that?

It would have to be remixed and put in a blender before it would chart. Which, it my very humble opinion, is very sad indeed.

.

I love Prince, always will

But did Prince in the 80s sound anything like what was charting then? Did Prince in the 90s sound like whatever was current then? Not really, yet his music broke through. Whilst he was alive, he no longer broke through in the end, but with his untimely death and a new interest in his music, I dont see why he couldnt break through again with some good promotion. It may not last too long, but if a new album is released in the next year, I think it could be quite big. And you and I both know that there is probably a very long queue of people wanting to be involved in that next (and first) vault release.

antonb said:

Yes it is kinda surprising that not many people seem to be excited by the fact that Prince filmed most of his shows. That's another treasure trove of greatness right there. And all the videos he made and rehearsals I think he filmed . I mean, WOW. Please, let's hope they see the light of day.

Im not too bothered about the shows. I have enough on my hard drive. But the aftershows, thats what I would like to see.

paulludvig said:

antonb said:

Yes it is kinda surprising that not many people seem to be excited by the fact that Prince filmed most of his shows. That's another treasure trove of greatness right there. And all the videos he made and rehearsals I think he filmed . I mean, WOW. Please, let's hope they see the light of day.

It sounds great in theory, but I think it's very likely that most of those filmed shows are static one-camera setups, intended only for Prince to watch and give performance notes to the band.

eyewishuheaven said:

antonb said:

Yes it is kinda surprising that not many people seem to be excited by the fact that Prince filmed most of his shows. That's another treasure trove of greatness right there. And all the videos he made and rehearsals I think he filmed . I mean, WOW. Please, let's hope they see the light of day.

It sounds great in theory, but I think it's very likely that most of those filmed shows are static one-camera setups, intended only for Prince to watch and give performance notes to the band.

Would still be interesting if you went to that part. show. If you attended, that was also a one-location viewing experience...

Of course not for big bucks. But i would be interested in downloading all the shows i attended.

dalboy2 said:

Interesting viewpoint http://blogs.spectator.co...very-good/ There’s a good reason why Prince didn’t release his archive – most of it isn’t very good Prince at the Ritz, New York, 1981. Photo: Gary Gershoff/Getty Images Prince’s vast archive of unreleased music is legendary. The ‘vault’ in Paisley Park, the late musician’s home-cum-studio complex in suburban Minneapolis, contains thousands of hours of recordings that have never seen the inside of a tape deck. The unpublished music tells a story. Material was shelved when band members left, after the tragic death of his newborn son, and at the end of his first marriage. Some projects were cancelled for more prosaic (commercial and legal) reasons. The Black Album, which was abandoned in mysterious circumstances a week before it was due to be released, became one of the most bootlegged records of all time. Because so much of the vault’s contents have leaked over the years, fans with realistic expectations know roughly what will be available posthumously. They also know that most of the tracks that were banished were simply not good enough, and Prince’s untimely death doesn’t change that. The vault is worth very much more as a concept – a myth – than the sum of the recordings inside it, the very best of which would nicely fill a double disc set. Between 1982 and 1989 Prince created an unparalleled amount of work. He developed and perfected a distinct and instantly recognisable style which influences the sound of popular music to this day. Everything he released in this period was a critical and commercial success, and some of the outtakes are as good, if not better, than what was published. Unfortunately, Prince had no idea what to do with the gold mine he created. ‘Extraloveable’ is an illustrative case. Originally recorded (but not released) in 1982, it is one of the finest examples of his signature sound, in which old school funk meets new-wave pop. The lyrics – rape threats and all – are spat at the microphone in an urgent, breathy falsetto. A sanitised, easy-listening version was included on his most recent album last year. It wouldn’t sound out of place in the repertoire of a hotel jazz band. The raw energy of the original is entirely lost. This is nothing short of vandalism, and it’s awful to imagine what, in his dotage, he might have done to other gems in the vault. How could he have ruined ‘Electric Intercourse,’ the bittersweet piano ballad that was almost included on Purple Rain? What horrors could he inflict on ‘All My Dreams’, the surreal synth opera that should have been the final track on Sign o’ the Times? As a live performer and bandleader Prince was unparalleled, but his recent studio efforts have been hit-and-miss, to put it diplomatically. He peaked creatively 30 years ago, which explains the vault’s mythical appeal to his army of devoted fans. He was still capable of creating interesting music (several of the tracks on 2014’s Art Official Age are reminiscent of his best work from the nineties) but he was no longer innovative. His legacy is best preserved by someone else, someone who isn’t embarrassed by his past. Someone who doesn’t shy away from lyrics about incest, masturbation and ‘rivers’ of menstrual blood. Someone who understands the importance of the Minneapolis sound, and the effect that it had on a generation of musicians. Anyone other than Prince.

There's enough people who were worked with him in the studio to know he had a lot of great material in the vault, plus he was on and off again about releasing the "Roadhouse Garden" album.

I'm sure they could do "rock", "blues", "jazz", "funk" instrumental collections where the performances are blazing but might have been unfinished. That's just marketing and making concept albums where there's a flow to the songs.

Songs that had to be edited down, now can be heard in their full glory,and that's only possible in the past few years.

"No longer innovative"... the SAME thing was said about Miles Davis.... 25 years ago. They're STILL finding new material and getting Grammy nominations.

The link to the article about the 99 items in the vault is fascinating. As a huge Bob Mould fan, the "Bockwinkel" project caught my eye. Nick Bockwinkel was a professional wrestler, and Bob is huge into pro wrestling, so this seemed plausible.

However, Bob posted on his Facebook that he never spoke to Prince. What a shame given that Bob is also a Minneapolis icon. It seems strange that this report emerged with a tinge of facial accuracy, but needless to say I entirely credit Bob's statement that he never spoke to Prince.

AlexHahn said:

The link to the article about the 99 items in the vault is fascinating. As a huge Bob Mould fan, the "Bockwinkel" project caught my eye. Nick Bockwinkel was a professional wrestler, and Bob is huge into pro wrestling, so this seemed plausible.

However, Bob posted on his Facebook that he never spoke to Prince. What a shame given that Bob is also a Minneapolis icon. It seems strange that this report emerged with a tinge of facial accuracy, but needless to say I entirely credit Bob's statement that he never spoke to Prince.

Yeah, it was cruel how plausible and amazing some of those things were, until you saw one that was obviously a put-on.

.

The Bob Mould one caught my interest too before I got the painful joke.

Are these well known boots?

If not Prince definitely had another great album in him.