There are a lot of great comments here, personal stories informative and touching. I think there are some excellent cultural/political/medical industry/human behavior issues and controversies to be debated in the General Forums. It's gone on for several pages now and I hope folks will try to get back to the topic of this thread, which is a sticky and I'd hate to see it pulled.

herb4 said:

spastic78 said:

herb4 said: Most pain management doctors also treat addiction.

Sorry, I'm ranting, but this issue pisses me off - as a drug user, as a recovering addict, as a sufferer of chronic pain

I'm with you here.

To the personal points made in your post, I just wanted to let you know good thoughts are coming your way from me. Many people don't understand and it can be so isolating. Friends are a support some of the time, others not so much, but as a stranger I wish you the best, really.

To the broader points of addiction, I'm struggling with some of the points read in this thread. I hate the word junkie, period. No one ever sets out to become an addict. There's some deep irony in defending what Prince may or may not have been doing with prescription drugs, and then throwing around judgements about others doing the same, recreational or otherwise. Fact is, at some point you have a choice and then one day you wake up and it's gone. If this was the cause of Prince's death, there really is no difference between him and that person you judge as you pass by on the street. The stereotypical image of an addict is so far from reality and a little empathy goes a long way, especially as it is shame and disappointment that can keep you there and there's a possibility that might just be what happened here. That makes me saddest of all.

spastic78 said:

The Medical Examiner hasn't released any findings as yet...nothing..not even to the police so all the heresay is BS... http://minnesota.cbslocal...y-results/ No one knows what was in Prince's body except one person -the ME and she is not talking. And her final point was that everyone metabolizes pain meds differently.

That's fair for her to say. However people die everyday and most of those deaths, even of celebrities, don't spawn lengthy investigations across multiple states and a raid on Walgreens.

Eileen said:

cardinal said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

We might as well centralize this, so people who don't want to know or read about it won't be blindsided by it being posted in an unrelated thread.

Let's post the factualy stuff that is/will come out, not the rumors and slanderous drizzle. All things related to his health/condition at the time.

i don't think I want to know either.

Please send all your moonbeam levels 2 me
Please send all your moonbeam levels 2 me
Please send all your moonbeam levels 2 me
I'm lookin' 4 a better place 2 die (Better place 2 die) ...

Please send all your moonbeam levels 2 me
Please send all your moonbeam levels 2 me
He don't, he don't, he don't really wanna die
He don't wanna, he don't wanna, he don't wanna die
He don't really wanna die

dr drew keeps pointing out the sad irony that prince lives literally 4 miles from the hazelton/ford clinic, the premier treatment center in the country for substance addiction and dependency. he keeps asking why that week did no one just put prince in the car and drive him there? not to be morbid, but at that point he would not have been in condition to put up much of a fight. he could be pissed at them later, but at least he might be alive. trying not to judge those in the moment, but damn, its hard in the pain of grief, even two weeks out. "do i have a friend tonight?" ---prince, at his last appearance in atlanta. [Edited 5/5/16 10:03am]

I'm from the area, so just to clarify, Prince was actually about an hour away from Hazelden. Chanhassen to Center City is roughly 60 miles.

spastic78 said:

Eileen said:

That's fair for her to say. However people die everyday and most of those deaths, even of celebrities, don't spawn lengthy investigations across multiple states and a raid on Walgreens.

True. It's not a common practice for sure. The comedy actor Oswald Patton's wife died unexpectedly at the age of 46 in her sleep next to him and there's no investigation or drama surrounding that case. Just sadness. It leads me to believe that someone in Prince's camp raised the "I want answers" warning and was just so vocal that they have to be careful to ensure they don't end up with a lawsuit.

There would be no basis for anything like that. They didn't kill him and they didn't refuse to save him. In fact such pressure is much more likely to be the exact opposite, to not stir up a fuss that might tarnish Prince's name or that of associates/family, to not draw undue attention to anything less than positive about his person or business affairs.

headtripparade said:

When the lawyer guy gave his press conference he said he had been contacted by the Star Tribune and told that they had the story. He said they had information that he could only assume was coming directly from a leak in the sheriff's office. Not that this guy is to be believed at every corner, I'm sure he's working an angle somewhere, but the leak seems reasonable enough to me. It happens every day. The biggest reason the photos of the Boston bombers were released when they were was because someone in the FBI office leaked them to the media and an unnamed major media outlet called the FBI and said either you release the photos by 4 PM or we will. [Edited 5/5/16 6:54am]

.

I think the lawyer guy (or someone working for him) is the one that leaked the information to the press. Helps to build advertisement for his client, while also trying to work out a defense for the client's son.

Dr Drew makes my skin crawl

Wow lots of speculating and blaming going on here considering we still don't know almost anything.

We don't know if he was addicted to anything at all, we don't know how he died, we don't know anything.

Let me quote from the KSTP article :

"Investigators still do not know Prince's official cause of death"

"Part of the [out patient] treatment, according to sources, included efforts by Prince to move away from using prescribed medication to treat his severe pain."

So much for grounds to blame people ("enablers" etc) or already establishing Prince as an addict on here.

For all i know it's still possible he could have died of a simple heart attack for instance.

As for blaming people - you are aware that in the time span of 4 days ahead to his death Prince had given a dance party, was at a record shop, was seen at least twice cycling with his bike and had seen a doctor ?! So to say people around him were "enablers" or didn't take enough care or were yes-men (his inner circle, family, Kirk etc) is pretty astonishing to say the least.

You guys should calm down with the speculation and blame game really.

[Edited 5/5/16 22:47pm]

For me the worst part is the waiting because as we are seeing right now people are coming out of the woodwork speculating. Its like rubbing salt in wound and it hurts I was watching Fox News and they were bascially parroting what the Uk tabloids are saying, while CNN and Dr Drew on speed dial.....is it aids, the flu, drugs, was it the full moon that killed him? Until everything comes back (autopsy, tox etc) we just don't know.

For me the worst part is not outside speculation from the media or the general public (that was to be expected) but the drama that lots of people on here are adding to an already very very sad story by constantly jumping from conclusion to conclusion and establishing rumours as facts as if there was no tomorrow.

[Edited 5/5/16 22:51pm]

beachy said:

Suzee said:

There is a lot of speculation because some things just don't add up. For me starting with why was he left alone to die in an elevator? If his representatives reached out to a doctor in CA because of a grave medical condition, then why would they leave him alone? I can't imagine the burden of guilt his representatives, inner circle, paid staff etc must be feeling now. It's sad that a man like him who had everything had an "inner circle" instead of a family.

I wouldn't find it hard to believe if Prince said (ordered) to them: "leave me. I'm fine".

As I understand, he often had the house emptied for people at night time

[Edited 5/6/16 4:13am]

Suzee said:

There is a lot of speculation because some things just don't add up. For me starting with why was he left alone to die in an elevator? If his representatives reached out to a doctor in CA because of a grave medical condition, then why would they leave him alone?

Please, with all due respect and sincerity, this has been discussed on this board and in this specific thread for pages and pages and pages (and pages) already. Do you have any new, specific point leading off from all the replies that have already been posted to those exact same questions?

herb4 said:

XxAxX said:

many years ago i popped a disc in my cervical neck and the herniated disc pinched a nerve in my arm. the pain was unbearable, interolerable and as each second dragged by it pissed me off. when i was diagnosed, my surgery was set for a week out and i received a scrip for 60 percocet. i remember the pharmacist called to speak to my Dr to make sure it was legit. anyway, that week floated by in a soft, pink puffy dream. that hideous, screaming howling bitch of a nerve pain in my arm was gone.

.

i can understand completely where prince was coming from. if the surgery hadn't fixed me, i hate to say i would've gone right back to those magic pills. they really do work on pain, big time.

Worth noting too that often surgery doesn't work at all (especially operations having to do with nerve clusters and sensitive joints) and is prohibitively expensive on top of it for the average person.

That's the other thing. Given the sorry state of health care coverage in the U.S., it's entirely reasonable for someone to opt for opioids over a surgery that not only may not fix the problem, but which also can bankrupt most people. The cortisone shot I got in my spine hurt worse than than the regular back pain, took my pain level down from a 9 to an 8 and was not covered by insurance because it was considered "exploratory" or something. It was bullshit.

I'm undergoing depression treatment and it's a similar thing. The meds the prescribe do fuck all and actually make me noticeably worse. My psychiatrist has mentioned some sort of magnetic brain stimulation thing. "TMS"

HEre it is:

https://neurostar.com/

But my insurance won't cover it at all (and I have good insurance right now) unless I first try FIVE anti depressant medications first, which not only take 30-60 days before it can be determined what effect they're having but also often, as I said, make my depression and my behavior even worse and often have horrible side effects (eretcile dysfunction, mania, lack of impulse control, apathy, forgetfulness, drowsiness). So that means I have to experiment for 10 months with DRUGS that fuck up my life worse than the depression ever did in order to try an scientific NON DRUG approach.

I am also required to visit my doctor every 30 days (same with the pain meds) which conflicts with my family, my job and my schedule and often makes the stress that contributes to these ills even worse, so my issues intesnify.

The sorry fucking state of medicine in this country infuriates me and somehing's going to have to be done about it.

1000% agree! i have ranted my displeasure with the medical iundustry here before; it boils down to money again. america is fucked over by greed. we've lost sight of what means what. medical treatment is alll about follow the dollar and Big Pharma is calling the shots literally. imo our medical system is well and truly broken.

herb4 said:

spastic78 said:

herb4 said: Most pain management doctors also treat addiction.

Most pain management doctors very simply don't prescribe enough to get you hooked. They can't, unless the want the DEA all over their ass.

Like I said, I had a good two week run with little to no pain, didn't need the drugs and didn't take them. I spoke with the doc about it and he said the same thing. "You're not prescribed enough to be addicted". I know a few things about adiction. I'm a recovering cocaine adict (25 years clean), a smoker and a highly functioning alcoholic. I've had my issues with weed, porn...All sorts of things.

A drug is a drug, period. Legal or not. Nicotine is a drug, caffeine, booze...

When you're rich and famous though, and surrounded by a circle of yes men and, to some extent, "enablers" I guess, it's easier to tilt over and overdo this shit because no one says "no" and money talks.

I hate terms like "gateway drug" and "enabler" though.

No one, and I mean NO ONE, can keep an addict from using. If they don't cop it from Tony, they'll go around the block and get it from Steve. Or Doctor Nick. I'm about to get divorced primarily because my wife doesn't understand addiction and can no longer deal with it. I'm not dependant - on porn, alcohol or anything else - but I AM an addict and always will be. All the laws and punishment in the world won't stop me or cure me. There is no cure.

People like my Mother, who has so many prescribed pills in her purse it sounds like a box of tic-tacs, like to delude themselves that they're not addicts because a DOCTOR prescrbed it. Truth is, if you want it, you can find a Doctor to prescribe just about anything, especially, like I said, if you're rich and famous. The onyl difference really is that if a Dr. gives it to you, it not only removes the stigma and provides a smug air superiority to your average street junkie, but it also gives you legal recourse if you're stopped and searched.

But it's still DRUGS.

The way this nation (and this world really) treats the drug issue is Draconian and backwards. It only makes the problem worse. Look at all the veterans who came back from Nam hooked on morphine and shit, geting thier legs shot off for no reason at all, the diet pill wives, the steroid freaks, the people serving 10 years in jail for a half ounce of grass via the "Three Strikes" laws, the black teens who get 10 years extra sentences just because their cocaine was rocked up instead of powdered like Danny The Day Trader's was. The covert wars waged by our own government that were funded by drug trafficking.

Look at how prohibition and the Volstead act gave rise to an entire generation of gangsters and killers. The grossly disproportional application of the law and the sentencing guidelines for poor minority communities...

Sorry, I'm ranting, but this issue pisses me off - as a drug user, as a recovering addict, as a sufferer of chronic pain, and as a victim of our stupid health care system - and a lot of the comments I'm reading in this thread are pissing me off too ("Charge the Doctors", "Prosecute Everyone!", "Where was everybody?").

Punish. Punish. Punish.

Prince had free will. He LIVED by it. Fought for it. Strove for it. ACHEIVED IT. At least now his pain is gone and his gifts live forever.

well said. agree completely

BeauGurl said:

Was Prince avoiding having hip surgery (replacement) due to JW restrictions on blood transfusions? I read that Morris Day had his done and was trying to convince Prince to do the same as he was pain free. I read Prince had treatment in 2010 but not replacement - and clearly his constant pain has been referenced multiple times by those close to him since his death.

I keep hearing different reports on whether he had hip replacement surgery or not. sometimes i wondered if he was in LA for such a long time recuperating from it. And even whether he hid having the surgery from Larry Graham and his Jehovah's Witness Kingdom Hall?

2funkE said:

Was Prince avoiding having hip surgery (replacement) due to JW restrictions on blood transfusions? I read that Morris Day had his done and was trying to convince Prince to do the same as he was pain free. I read Prince had treatment in 2010 but not replacement - and clearly his constant pain has been referenced multiple times by those close to him since his death.

As it turns out that does seem to be the case and now I am just a little annoyed. Prince seemed to be self medicating to deal with pain because he could not address his discomfort due to JW restrictions on surgery.

http://www.etonline.com/news/187644_prince_used_percocet_to_treat_persistent_pain_from_hip_and_ankle_injuries_starting_2006/

friend2001 said:

I keep hearing different reports on whether he had hip replacement surgery or not. sometimes i wondered if he was in LA for such a long time recuperating from it. And even whether he hid having the surgery from Larry Graham and his Jehovah's Witness Kingdom Hall?

"Prince has suffered from hip problems for over a decade. He needs a double-hip replacement, but his faith as a Jehovah’s Witness prevents him from having a blood transfusion, which makes surgery near impossible. Despite their abstention from such such life-saving procedures, it has led to some major breakthroughs in bloodless medicine."

http://heavy.com/entertainment/2016/04/prince-dead-death-cause-age-health-songs-wife-children-awards-net-worth-height/

friend2001 said:

I keep hearing different reports on whether he had hip replacement surgery or not. sometimes i wondered if he was in LA for such a long time recuperating from it. And even whether he hid having the surgery from Larry Graham and his Jehovah's Witness Kingdom Hall?

From what I have read/heard, Prince did have "corrective" hip surgery. <This type of surgery is a lot less invasive than a complete joint replacement. From what I have read/heard, Prince had not yet had complete hip replacement surgery - which may or may not have relieved his pain anyway. I do not have personal knowledge of Prince's health - I am just passing on my theory. I have had a complete joint replacement myself.

Rest In Peace, Prince. We will NEVER forget you. Thank you so much.