Pentacle said:

Germanegro said:

Yer taliking about "back in the day" when videos were truly promotional articles, and could also be sold as physical product like VHS and DVD--and people would pay for them. That is over and done! We're talking about now, where music companies are losing money like water out of a sieve due to Internet pirating--yes, people can rip that stuff and choose not to pay anybody at all. So the sellers and content creators get 'd. Get it? Folks are looking for the best way to create entertainment, get paid for the entertainment, and advertise all this without getting less-to-nothing for their labors.

Yes, so Prince wants to get paid upfront from record companies who make no money from the music due to pirating.

Best to remain friendly with your fanbase then, because real fans wouldn't rip you off, right? Instead, he makes those who want to help him distribute HnR2 buy 500 copies. But hey, he's been paid upfront.

You are taking completely different deals and mixing them around, Pentacle.

>

Anyway, people can experiment with their business model to see what is going to work best for those involved in the situation, no?

>

Of course he should remain friendly with the fanbase.

[Edited 3/30/16 10:37am]

stuart3121 said:

What i find funny is that he posts links to youtube videos for other peoples stuff on his Twitter account, if hes so against it why promote it?

-

Well. If you want to share others' music with your fans but not everyone is on Tidal, everyone at least has access to the Tube.

You can't fix stupid.

Prince = stupid

Thank God for bootleggers.

AnnaSantana said:

You can't fix stupid.

Prince = stupid

Thank God for bootleggers.

-

On Wiki under Bootleg the first topic is Crime.

You have to thank Satan not God.

Bohemian67 said:

AnnaSantana said:

You can't fix stupid.

Prince = stupid

Thank God for bootleggers.

-

On Wiki under Bootleg the first topic is Crime.

You have to thank Satan not God.

You're not clever.

Bootleggers have been around as long AS God...and they ain't going nowhere...suck on that....

alandail said:

jayspud said:

Whilst I understand your point, Twitter isn't giving away full sings/albums entirely for free. Prince has 144k Twitter followers, decent views on the videos listed above and genuinely isn't short of publicity. Prince played the chart/sales games for decades starting the best part of 35 years ago. I would imagine that's not his main interest now. I mean, he doesn't need the money, one more No1 isn't exactly going to change his world that much.

Those really aren't decent numbers. Top videos get well over a billion views. If all of his videos were on youtube, his biggest hits would generate 10s of millions of views and help him grow his audience. How do I know this? I just saw this list a few days ago of Bee Gees video views since Sept 2014

Stayin Alive 201 million
How Deep Is Your Love 92 million
You Should be Dancing 83 million
Too Much Heaven 69 million
Night Fever 42 million
Alone 38 million
More Than a Woman 35 million
Jive Talkin 34 million
Tragedy 33 million
Starded a Joke 32 million
Nights on Broadway 23 million
You Win Again 22 million
If I cant have you 21 million
Massachusetts 19 million
Islands In the Stream Live 17 million
Closer than Close 13 million

At $2 per 1000 plays, just those 16 videos have generated $1.5 million in direct revenue, and certainly has helped generate additional revenue though back catalog album sales. The last one wasn't even a hit. Certainly Prince, who made videos for many more of his songs, should expect that ballpark of views if he posted videos for all of his hit singles.

[Edited 3/30/16 10:06am]

Firstly, really good post. I think this sort of post really adds to the thread by using the figures and doing a bit of research it gives us a better idea of the situation.

I would add a couple of points. Firstly, as you state, these are views over the past 18 months (which is impressive). However, when you drill down into it the situation gets more complicated for Prince.

The income paid by Youtube (using your figures) would be around $1.5 million over 18 months or $1 million per year. The Beegees Stayin Alive I see on Youtube is at 122 million and has taken 6 years to get there. But even taking your figures this is $1million per year. To put this into perspective (whilst it's a lot of mone to me) Prince can earn $5 million for one private party or $1 million at a concert.

I would also argue that seeing his videos on Youtube won't nessacarily translate into back catalogue sales for two reasons. Firstly people tend to watch a video and then just watch another one without buying the album. Secondly when people buy back catalogue stuff a large proportion of it is purchased from Amazon Marketplace sellers and Ebay from which the artist receives absolutely nothing.

Would it stimulate interest in Prince? It could well do but as a way of making money it isn't great. I I would love Prince to find some way of allowing his videos to be seen but seeing as the above videos amount to nearly 774millions views it does seem that the artist is not making what they should.

jayspud said:

alandail said:

Those really aren't decent numbers. Top videos get well over a billion views. If all of his videos were on youtube, his biggest hits would generate 10s of millions of views and help him grow his audience. How do I know this? I just saw this list a few days ago of Bee Gees video views since Sept 2014

Stayin Alive 201 million
How Deep Is Your Love 92 million
You Should be Dancing 83 million
Too Much Heaven 69 million
Night Fever 42 million
Alone 38 million
More Than a Woman 35 million
Jive Talkin 34 million
Tragedy 33 million
Starded a Joke 32 million
Nights on Broadway 23 million
You Win Again 22 million
If I cant have you 21 million
Massachusetts 19 million
Islands In the Stream Live 17 million
Closer than Close 13 million

At $2 per 1000 plays, just those 16 videos have generated $1.5 million in direct revenue, and certainly has helped generate additional revenue though back catalog album sales. The last one wasn't even a hit. Certainly Prince, who made videos for many more of his songs, should expect that ballpark of views if he posted videos for all of his hit singles.

[Edited 3/30/16 10:06am]

Firstly, really good post. I think this sort of post really adds to the thread by using the figures and doing a bit of research it gives us a better idea of the situation.

I would add a couple of points. Firstly, as you state, these are views over the past 18 months (which is impressive). However, when you drill down into it the situation gets more complicated for Prince.

The income paid by Youtube (using your figures) would be around $1.5 million over 18 months or $1 million per year. The Beegees Stayin Alive I see on Youtube is at 122 million and has taken 6 years to get there. But even taking your figures this is $1million per year. To put this into perspective (whilst it's a lot of mone to me) Prince can earn $5 million for one private party or $1 million at a concert.

I would also argue that seeing his videos on Youtube won't nessacarily translate into back catalogue sales for two reasons. Firstly people tend to watch a video and then just watch another one without buying the album. Secondly when people buy back catalogue stuff a large proportion of it is purchased from Amazon Marketplace sellers and Ebay from which the artist receives absolutely nothing.

Would it stimulate interest in Prince? It could well do but as a way of making money it isn't great. I I would love Prince to find some way of allowing his videos to be seen but seeing as the above videos amount to nearly 774millions views it does seem that the artist is not making what they should.

Just to clarify the official BeeGees channel has 379million views. Other videos not on their website would be unlikely to bring in income.

The youtube discussion went nowhere. He is not going to post videos to youtube unless he wants to. Unfortunately, he won't release a comprehensive video collection either. He has all the videos to watch when/if he wants. We don't. It would be really nice for US to have, not just him. Even if someone paid him what he wanted for them and they went through the process to clean it up, it will never happen.

Forget remasters, I just want an ultimate video collection.

jayspud said:

Firstly I would argue that the Original Artist/Songwriter really should receive the lions share of any income from these videos which clearly they currently don't.

Secondly there are only really two ways to put Prince videos out there.

A) Put everything out there entirely for free which would generate very little sales as people can just download the tracks for free.

B) Put out certain songs as promotional tools for albums which he has done to an extent.

All available legally on Youtube.

WAY BACK HOME - https://www.youtube.com/w...2bOp45EFgo

THIS COULD BE US - https://www.youtube.com/w...cHPdfZFW18

FUNKNROLL - https://www.youtube.com/w...9R1E4y7_Js

FUNKNROLL (LYRIC VIDEO) - https://www.youtube.com/w...ZdBH79MC94

MARZ VIDEO - https://www.youtube.com/w...1wsn4ug0tc

BREAKFAST CAN WAIT (BEHIND THE SCENES) - https://www.youtube.com/w...MWwwZB33Jo

ARSENIO HALL SHOW 2014 - https://www.youtube.com/w...UVZW6-rZKw

[Edited 3/29/16 11:15am]

[Edited 3/29/16 11:16am]

[Edited 3/29/16 11:16am]

There are a few more in fact: http://officialprincevide...ogspot.in/

(Since the mods didn't delete your links I assume I can safely post mine, and anyway legally any video that's on an official YT channel with the "embed" option active is by consent of the author something you can link at or embed at will, without any possibility for legal threats, but mods if you feel the links can't be here please feel free to edit)

AnnaSantana said:

Bohemian67 said:

-

On Wiki under Bootleg the first topic is Crime.

You have to thank Satan not God.

You're not clever.

Bootleggers have been around as long AS God...and they ain't going nowhere...suck on that....

-

And this is why we are not going to get any stuff. You little

Bohemian67 said:

Blood on the dancefloor

-

Skinhead, deadhead

Everybody gone bad

Trepidation, speculation

Everybody allegation

In the suite, on the news

Everybody dog food

Black male, blackmail

Throw your brother in jail

-

All I wanna say is.....

-

@Germanegro & @Jayspud

"Whatever happens....Heaven can Wait..."

-

Respect to believe in your dreams...

[Edited 3/30/16 9:11am]

[Edited 3/30/16 9:12am]

Germanegro said:

Pentacle said:

Yes, so Prince wants to get paid upfront from record companies who make no money from the music due to pirating.

You are taking completely different deals and mixing them around, Pentacle.

>

[Edited 3/30/16 10:37am]

I don't think so, because the system is broken.

Prince: "I want 100 million for my sexy music"

WB: 'Well, we're only making 10 million nowadays,

and your back catalogue made about 250 dollars.

There were a lot of pre-orders for the PR 30th Anniversary

but unfortunately..."

Prince: "Hundalasiliah ! I'm gonna go after YouTube.

And then I'm gonna sell HnR2 to my fans, 500 copies each!

Number 1 at the bank, mofo's!"

thedance said:

Prince is all about the money $$$$$$$$$$, this is what drives his career.

Now finally confirmed.

Welcome 2 the Dawn...

BartVanHemelen said:

SoulAlive said:

After decades of Prince saying "it's mine music! Mine! Mine! Mine! Now folks are like, "ok, you can keep it!" And here we are. The Artist Formally Known as Successful.

Scarfo said:

After decades of Prince saying "it's mine music! Mine! Mine! Mine! Now folks are like, "ok, you can keep it!" And here we are. The Artist Formally Known as Successful.

So true.

Even if he did get paid for live stuff on Youtube - he still wouldnt release it. Now that is non-sensical. He's mastered the act of being a dick. Its artist like Prince that allow the bootleg market to breed.

Pentacle said:

Germanegro said:

You are taking completely different deals and mixing them around, Pentacle.

>

[Edited 3/30/16 10:37am]

I don't think so, because the system is broken.

Prince: "I want 100 million for my sexy music"

WB: 'Well, we're only making 10 million nowadays,

and your back catalogue made about 250 dollars.

There were a lot of pre-orders for the PR 30th Anniversary

but unfortunately..."

Prince: "Hundalasiliah ! I'm gonna go after YouTube.

And then I'm gonna sell HnR2 to my fans, 500 copies each!

Number 1 at the bank, mofo's!"

^If you're referring to his 1992 contract renegotiation with WB, the 100 million payday that WB spoke about was a fiction, agreed to occur only under very special conditions. It was a setup for Prince's failure, which did occur. The details of the deal are outlined in the documentary Prince: The Slave Trade, if you'd rather view the description instead of dig through old news reports.

>

How many of those record company deals actually paid terms-free cash before sales? I don't know that any did, do you? Has Arista, Sony, Universal, or WB done this, really? Record companies typically only pay advances to the artists. And those advances are charged back for whatever recording expenses other adminstrative fees there may be or can be manufactured to recoup more of that advance. Of course the system is broken. Corporations are taking most of the cash we spend on this stuff and beyond, when they add ownership in the fine print of the deal, and the creators get woeful amounts in return. Passive consumers just enjoy the songs, clap to the beat & whatever, while the execs set up family health insurance plans, pop the Dom, and dream of future riches to come from what is derived by their contracts with these people.

>

It is the retailers who pay cash for delivery of CDs, but they are traders that exist to buy and sell; it is the deal that they exist to procure. Fans who agree to buy his CDs become traders, so OK! I can say that kind of deal wasn't for me, though. But more power to them! I'll buy my copy of HnR2 when I can find one for under 20 bucks.

>

I think that P. has learned a few things busninesswise since 1992. He's trying to change the mode from exploitation to equitable partnerships. Hundalisiliah!

>

Haters gonna hate.

[Edited 3/30/16 18:45pm]

Scarfo said:

thedance said:

Prince is all about the money $$$$$$$$$$, this is what drives his career.

Now finally confirmed.

Welcome 2 the Dawn...

Cynic!

he dont need utube or y'alls crap....

Germanegro said:

udo said:

.

No ads here.

How come you don't block them yet?

.

The Prince man is simply not in control. (1)

He appears unable to strike a PR remaster deal with WB. (2)

He also appears unable to see the profits in a deal with youtube as he simply states that they do not send him money. (3)

He appears unable to refrain from sampler use during piano shows.

Will the memoir thing ever materialise?

(1) Nope--the corporate interests are driving the car these days. He fan only do a little bit at a time on his own, without their involvement.

.

The WB deal is about money versus goodies on the discs. (multiple).

What does your response mean in this context?

.

(2) Cutting back on Youtube and other streaming services access is raising his leverage in his request that WB agrees to a better deal for musicians in their profit-sharing scheme in these licensing deals.

.

A little bit of exposure which is largely untargeted. Oh well...

.

(3) He can deal better with Youtube once he can get a better deal from the REAL moneymaker (WB), and finally allow YT some play for better marketing exposure.

>

Hey, what neat ideas these are!

.

If WB is the real moneymaker, then why didn't he offer them goodies?

Bohemian67 said:

On Wiki under Bootleg the first topic is Crime.

.

Intellectual property was invented only recently.

It only exists between your ears.

So if it is a crime is still debatable.

laurarichardson said:

SoulAlive said:

Jesus Christ,why does everything have to be about money? Isn't Prince already worth over $300 million?

- Because every should be compensated for their work. Do you work for free? In addition, those Goggle is making money off the ads do you realize that movie studios do not get to put music in films for free and T.V networks do not get to use music for free either. Why would Goggle not pay the copyright owners a licensing fee like everybody else.

Do you know any of Prince's unofficial output?
And if so, care to explain how you got it?

Famz defending Skipper's most blatant defaults once again.

For starters, you don't wear such a bad haircut, or a jacket that looks like a garbage plastic bag, and you don't wear kids shoes with flashing LEDs. You fire those good-for-nothing illustrators and photoshoppists that hang around, and get back Laura LiPuma, Jeff Katz, any decent designer will do.

In the long run, Youtube pays out. Prince is a long-trail artist. Even some marketing school student would come up with ideas on how to present him as a legend. All the material is there. Just taking dust. And I sure hope someone is making digital backups, because hey, you know what, tapes age.

Dear Famz, the nasty bootleggers, they're the ones who are the true Vault curators. They're the ones making the backups, spreading them; they make sure it's preserved.
They're the ones who respect his work to the point where getting a pristine sound version of a unreleased classic becomes a Holy Grail.
Dylan understood that. There's more respect than hate: you don't do bootlegger as a living, it's passion that drives you. And in the long run, bootleggers are the ones who turns artists into legends.

luvsexy4all said:

he dont need utube or y'alls crap....

udo said:

Bohemian67 said:

On Wiki under Bootleg the first topic is Crime.

.

Intellectual property was invented only recently.

It only exists between your ears.

So if it is a crime is still debatable.

No copyright - it would only work in a money-free society/world,

where we didn't have to worry about having enough food or clothes

because, for instance, a government or a magic fairy would supply them.

Unfortunately, we don't live in one.

.

GeorgieAto said:

Germanegro said:

udo said:

.

No ads here.

How come you don't block them yet?

.

The Prince man is simply not in control. (1)

He appears unable to strike a PR remaster deal with WB. (2)

He also appears unable to see the profits in a deal with youtube as he simply states that they do not send him money. (3)

He appears unable to refrain from sampler use during piano shows.

Will the memoir thing ever materialise?

(1) Nope--the corporate interests are driving the car these days. He fan only do a little bit at a time on his own, without their involvement.

.

The WB deal is about money versus goodies on the discs. (multiple).

What does your response mean in this context?

.

(2) Cutting back on Youtube and other streaming services access is raising his leverage in his request that WB agrees to a better deal for musicians in their profit-sharing scheme in these licensing deals.

.

A little bit of exposure which is largely untargeted. Oh well...

.

(3) He can deal better with Youtube once he can get a better deal from the REAL moneymaker (WB), and finally allow YT some play for better marketing exposure.

>

Hey, what neat ideas these are!

.

If WB is the real moneymaker, then why didn't he offer them goodies?

^^^

It's my impression that the notion of "goodies" (alt. takes, live recordings & such) added to a PR remaster was speculation from people on the outside toward what kind of deal WB had in mind for Prince. Unless WB reveals or someone can discover what they'd proposed to Prince, I can only imagine that the issue of remastered content (along with the release of Plec. Elec. & AOA) was an open subject and Prince sent them what he wanted them to have.

>

WB's objective is to maximize product value and sales. They want something novel that will be a big sell, and a lot of people will go for Princes 80s music. I feel that Prince's objectives are somewhat opposed to those of WB. Prince initially mentioned he wasn't interested in developing remasters. Of course, I can't say whether or not those comments are BS bluster. However, it has always been his pattern to move toward the next creatlve idea and a remaster is a polishing of an old one. However, since WB wants remasters he'll play the game and say if they can agree on sufficient licensing terms then this can happen. Distribution is a big monster when it comes to sales, and WB would be in good position to handle that effort, barring streaming services. WB would reap percentages from CD sales and whatever else they could tie in to the licensing, including revenue from Youtube's purchase of broadcasting rights. So big money would be coming to WB. I speculate that P. didn't offer WB "the goodies" as a bargaining tool to encourage WB to offer him a bigger percentage of revenue. I feel that Prince's acheivement of a better deal could potentially serve as a template in future dealings with more artists.

>

I'm no accountant so I don't know how this all really works, and I'm not big on collecting actual sales and revenue numbers--not my thing--so I wonder how well my thoughts gel with the actual dealings. I hope that I answerd some part of what you've asked

bonatoc says:

Famz defending Skipper's most blatant defaults once again.

For starters, you don't wear such a bad haircut, or a jacket that looks like a garbage plastic bag, and you don't wear kids shoes with flashing LEDs. You fire those good-for-nothing illustrators and photoshoppists that hang around, and get back Laura LiPuma, Jeff Katz, any decent designer will do.

In the long run, Youtube pays out. Prince is a long-trail artist. Even some marketing school student would come up with ideas on how to present him as a legend. All the material is there. Just taking dust. And I sure hope someone is making digital backups, because hey, you know what, tapes age.

That just wouldn't be fair, man. Given those changes, Prince would get ALL the women.