databank said:

imprimis said:

This song was most likely not at the level of development we recognize it to be from the circulating outtake, in time for a release on 'Parade'. Although initially tracked in April 1985, it was worked on multiple times in late 1985 throughout mid-1986. Most of the Fairlight effects, the Lisa Coleman piano solo, and likely that showtunesy closing chorus were added late in its development. It is one of those 1985/Parade/UTCM-era tracks that didn't quite meet the standard or image of the rest of resulting album, and was held over for possible use on the next project, with an eye towards the need/desire for additional work ('Strange Relationship', 'Neon Telephone', 'Sexual Suicide', 'Go', 'Splash', possibly 'Slow Love', possibly 'Old Friends 4 Sale'). I would rank the track as we know it (presumably completed) to be an integral part of some stage of the non-existent 'Dream Factory', even if it is rooted partially in the Parade-era sound. Some of the finishing touches on this track may have been done by W&L while Prince was occupied with other engagements.

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[Edited 2/19/16 16:17pm]

I really think taking it out of Parade was a good decision, no matter how great it was.

I'm confused by the bold part though. AFAIK we have only one version circulating and that's the one from the May 1985 first config of Parade. Something doesn't add-up here.

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I don't trust that this is from a May 1985 test pressing/tape for 'Parade'. I believe we have a Late 1985, or 1986, version of this track. This track appears on studio logs well into 1986. What likely would he have been doing with it during those attested-to sessions? Was he really this facile with this new sound, and the CMI Fairlight (which can be quite complex) only a few weeks after first being introduced to it upon his return from the PR Tour?

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Why aren't we hearing any of this (let alone the relatively sophisticated use of that device as it appears in 'All My Dreams'), on any of 'New Position', 'I Wonder U', 'Under the Cherry Moon' or 'Heaven' from around the same recording period as the initial tracking for this? There may some use of it in LGWP/CTP, but it is quite basic and would be liable to the same arguments I making here as to what stage of development (when) these tracks we have are truly from.

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'Others Here with Us' should give us an idea of how far along he would have been in his explorations and familiarity with this instrument around this time.

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Likewise, the absence of the rich W&L layered vocals, similar to what appear on the circulating version of 'All My Dreams', on the alleged test pressing from May 1985 for NP and IWU (but which /do/ appear on the final 1986 released Parade versions of those two tracks).

.

In Late 1985 and throughout 1986, he became heavily involved with the Fairlight (and, it would seem, did not completely abandon it from his touring or studio 'gear rack' until sometime in 1989 or even 1990).

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Something between the alleged timeline, and an intuitive but reasoned sense of his musical development, doesn't add up.

.

And I believe that is most logically resolved by assuming the circulating version of this track not to be the one from this very early date of April/May 1985.

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The Purple authorities alleged until quite recently that the March 1984 recording session for 'Paisley Park' was the ATWIAD album track, even going as far as to draw comparisons to the supposed similarity in its drum pattern to WDC's to bolster the claim, when it has now been shown that the 'Paisley Park' recorded at that time is an entirely unrelated, and very much unalike, instrumental.

.

As an aside, I've heard /rumor/ that this track was presented to Clare Fischer at one point. If that is true, I believe the addition of those orchestral parts (and whatever would have to be removed from the mix to make way for them) would very much undermine 'All My Dream''s uniquely quaint charm.

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[Edited 2/19/16 17:54pm]

It fits better in Dream Factory prject and by a long shot.

imprimis said:

databank said:

I really think taking it out of Parade was a good decision, no matter how great it was.

I'm confused by the bold part though. AFAIK we have only one version circulating and that's the one from the May 1985 first config of Parade. Something doesn't add-up here.

.

I don't trust that this is from a May 1985 test pressing/tape for 'Parade'. I believe we have a Late 1985, or 1986, version of this track. This track appears on studio logs well into 1986. What likely would he have been doing with it during those attested-to sessions? Was he really this facile with this new sound, and the CMI Fairlight (which can be quite complex) only a few weeks after first being introduced to it upon his return from the PR Tour?

.

Why aren't we hearing any of this (let alone the relatively sophisticated use of that device as it appears in 'All My Dreams'), on any of 'New Position', 'I Wonder U', 'Under the Cherry Moon' or 'Heaven' from around the same recording period as the initial tracking for this? There may some use of it in LGWP/CTP, but it is quite basic and would be liable to the same arguments I making here as to what stage of development (when) these tracks we have are truly from.

.

'Others Here with Us' should give us an idea of how far along he would have been in his explorations and familiarity with this instrument around this time.

.

Likewise, the absence of the rich W&L layered vocals, similar to what appear on the circulating version of 'All My Dreams', on the alleged test pressing from May 1985 for NP and IWU (but which /do/ appear on the final 1986 released Parade versions of those two tracks).

.

In Late 1985 and throughout 1986, he became heavily involved with the Fairlight (and, it would seem, did not completely abandon it from his touring or studio 'gear rack' until sometime in 1989 or even 1990).

.

Something between the alleged timeline, and an intuitive but reasoned sense of his musical development, doesn't add up.

.

And I believe that is most logically resolved by assuming the circulating version of this track not to be the one from this very early date of April/May 1985.

.

The Purple authorities alleged until quite recently that the March 1984 recording session for 'Paisley Park' was the ATWIAD album track, even going as far as to draw comparisons to the supposed similarity in its drum pattern to WDC's to bolster the claim, when it has now been shown that the 'Paisley Park' recorded at that time is an entirely unrelated, and very much unalike, instrumental.

.

As an aside, I've heard /rumor/ that this track was presented to Clare Fischer at one point. If that is true, I believe the addition of those orchestral parts (and whatever would have to be removed from the mix to make way for them) would very much undermine 'All My Dream''s uniquely quaint charm.

.

[Edited 2/19/16 17:54pm]

I have to admit I'm always impressed by how much thoughts you give all that stuff

Thing is... IDK. As you know I tend to believe that you sometimes overspeculate but on the other hand it's educated speculation to say the least. IDK who provided Uptown with the May 1st 1985 date for the Parade configuration we have, but since Old Friends 4 Sale segues into AMD it doesn't seem to be a random compilation. However it seems quite certain by now that Girls & Boys and Love Or Money come from from the same leaked tape, and both are from July 1985, so the tape has to be from at least Summer 85.

As for Clare Fischer on All My Dreams, rumor aside the belief seems to be that the song was discarded from Parade before Prince sent all those tracks to Fischer, and that it was therefore spared the orchestral treatment.

Madhouseman has revisited all those sessions and I'd really like to read what he has to say on your contributions.

databank said:

imprimis said:

.

I don't trust that this is from a May 1985 test pressing/tape for 'Parade'. I believe we have a Late 1985, or 1986, version of this track. This track appears on studio logs well into 1986. What likely would he have been doing with it during those attested-to sessions? Was he really this facile with this new sound, and the CMI Fairlight (which can be quite complex) only a few weeks after first being introduced to it upon his return from the PR Tour?

.

Why aren't we hearing any of this (let alone the relatively sophisticated use of that device as it appears in 'All My Dreams'), on any of 'New Position', 'I Wonder U', 'Under the Cherry Moon' or 'Heaven' from around the same recording period as the initial tracking for this? There may some use of it in LGWP/CTP, but it is quite basic and would be liable to the same arguments I making here as to what stage of development (when) these tracks we have are truly from.

.

'Others Here with Us' should give us an idea of how far along he would have been in his explorations and familiarity with this instrument around this time.

.

Likewise, the absence of the rich W&L layered vocals, similar to what appear on the circulating version of 'All My Dreams', on the alleged test pressing from May 1985 for NP and IWU (but which /do/ appear on the final 1986 released Parade versions of those two tracks).

.

In Late 1985 and throughout 1986, he became heavily involved with the Fairlight (and, it would seem, did not completely abandon it from his touring or studio 'gear rack' until sometime in 1989 or even 1990).

.

Something between the alleged timeline, and an intuitive but reasoned sense of his musical development, doesn't add up.

.

And I believe that is most logically resolved by assuming the circulating version of this track not to be the one from this very early date of April/May 1985.

.

The Purple authorities alleged until quite recently that the March 1984 recording session for 'Paisley Park' was the ATWIAD album track, even going as far as to draw comparisons to the supposed similarity in its drum pattern to WDC's to bolster the claim, when it has now been shown that the 'Paisley Park' recorded at that time is an entirely unrelated, and very much unalike, instrumental.

.

As an aside, I've heard /rumor/ that this track was presented to Clare Fischer at one point. If that is true, I believe the addition of those orchestral parts (and whatever would have to be removed from the mix to make way for them) would very much undermine 'All My Dream''s uniquely quaint charm.

.

[Edited 2/19/16 17:54pm]

I have to admit I'm always impressed by how much thoughts you give all that stuff

Thing is... IDK. As you know I tend to believe that you sometimes overspeculate but on the other hand it's educated speculation to say the least. IDK who provided Uptown with the May 1st 1985 date for the Parade configuration we have, but since Old Friends 4 Sale segues into AMD it doesn't seem to be a random compilation. However it seems quite certain by now that Girls & Boys and Love Or Money come from from the same leaked tape, and both are from July 1985, so the tape has to be from at least Summer 85.

As for Clare Fischer on All My Dreams, rumor aside the belief seems to be that the song was discarded from Parade before Prince sent all those tracks to Fischer, and that it was therefore spared the orchestral treatment.

Madhouseman has revisited all those sessions and I'd really like to read what he has to say on your contributions.

.

Is there a reason we cannot leave open the idea that 'Old Friends 4 Sale' endured past 'Parade'/UTCM, as a possible candidate (of course, among a vast assortment of material) for a 1986/87 (DF or equivalent) album? As another aside, I believe that he changed the lyrics in 1985 or 1986, whether to expunge personal references or simply for aesthetic reasons, and not 1991. And it seems some are now suggesting the song was never the deeply personal statement we had for years thought it to be in the first place?

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And isn't the segued version the one with a bit of overdubbing? Not the Clare Fischer overdubs, but some slight additional synth and background vocals?

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Yet, the non-overdubbed version, I believe, leaked to some radio stations later in 1985.

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'All My Dreams' seems to be built on a very simplistic, mostly analogue backing, with a lot of 'sampled'/Fairlight overdubs on top of that, and in a way that contrasts to the point I can't imagine that he intended it to be exactly this way when he first put it in the can. And I don't know how he, or W&L, could become as versed in as complicated an instrument as the Fairlight such a short period of time, and it would seem neither Prince nor W&L had been introduced to the instrument until March/April 1985. The apparently completed version we have has to have been worked on beyond April 1985. And none of this addresses the appearance of the track on several 1986 studio session logs. It could just be mixing, I suppose, or working it into some arrangement of an album, etc.

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And 'Love or $' is such a rough, basic demo, and an incomplete leak of it at that, I find it hard to believe that it could have been sourced from a serious, working version of an album configuration, however early its progress may have been at that point.

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More likely is that these all were sourced from somewhere and someone during the late 1980s Prince tape trading scene (with the resulting bootlegs drawing these from a single leaked tape made up of a lot of these goodies), and the official source or sources these are in turn drawn from are called into question.

[Edited 2/19/16 20:19pm]