herb4 said:

Askani said:

I understand that, but what does the line mean? I know your heart is beating, my heart tells me so.

"I can hear your heart beat in time with the drum"
"As the drum beats, so does your heart"
"Your heartbeat is your soul. The drum beat is the soul of the music"

And so forth.

I don't think it's meant to be taken literally.

That line is an absolutely brilliant one. This guy trying to dissect it is missing the point. Poetry is a nonliteral means of expression.

[Edited 1/2/16 9:45am]

the "dislike" for "Free" worries me a bit..

(Of course you are in your right to hate this song.. but it's so much greater than any s*it from Phase 2)

This is a great song on a great album, "Free" is "Purple Rain"s (the song) little brother, imho...

Great ballad and I like the message... "So be glad that u are free, free to change ur mind" etc.....

the song "Free" Prince (much later) did with Larry 'fucking irritating' Graham...

Now that song is really a bad song, I agree......

I really hate this song. Oh, along with All the critics love U in New York which is total garbage.

Se7en said:

I think the 1999 album needed another "political" song as a bookend, even though it's not a proper end-of-record bookend.

1999 & Free are the two political/social songs on the album. Otherwise (with the exception of All The Critics Love U In New York), it's all sex and partying.

*

I agree with you, but I think that 1999 as a entire collection was meant to be taken as much more than for sex and partying, espeically considering that sex has always been a metaphor through which Prince could explore other issues. With that said, I like the simplicity of "Free" along with the subtle manner in which it evokes the tone of Civil Rights or Feedom songs, which were usually sung to gospel or spiritual tunes. So, I don't think that it's a coincidence that "Free" has the sound of a gospel song. Additionally, "Free" doesn't end by saying "Hey, let's be glad and party that we are free." It ends by admonishing the listener that we must be diligent in our struggle for freedom, that freedom ain't always free, and that freedom demands constant struggle. "Soldiers are Marching./ They're writing brand new laws./ We must fight together 4 the most important cause." I don't know how this sentiment can be considered lame by anyone unless they only want Prince to write about sex and paryting. The entire song is a very realistic and sobering sentiment. One should be able to be happy for the rights that one has while understanding that one must fight to maintain those rights because evil or opposers of freedom for all never stop. I don't know what makes that a bad or lame idea. Now, I can understand if one just doesn't like gospel sounding songs, but the melody of the song evokes the sound and spirit of gospel and freedom songs quite well.

Wolfie87 said:

I really hate this song. Oh, along with All the critics love U in New York which is total garbage.

*

One person's trash is another person's treasue. I love the lyrics, sentiment, and music of "All the Critics Love U in New York," espeically the uncurrent guitar playing.

Wolfie87 said:

I really hate this song. Oh, along with All the critics love U in New York which is total garbage.

thedance said:

Wolfie87 said:

I really hate this song. Oh, along with All the critics love U in New York which is total garbage.

Throw in Something In The Water (does not compute) in the mix. Ugh . I guess I don't "get" that song (well, you can't dance to it for starters). But I know for a fact that I always have to push the next button two times before Lady Cab Driver kicks in, so fuck off you two songs before. 1999 always irritated me. That first part up til "Automatic" I adore. The second part, with the exception of LCD, I truly loathe to the point I find it unlistenable.

[Edited 1/2/16 14:21pm]

I think 1999 is Prince's best album.I don't skip over any of the tracks.

Wolfie87 said:

thedance said:

Throw in Something In The Water (does not compute) in the mix. Ugh . I guess I don't "get" that song (well, you can't dance to it for starters). But I know for a fact that I always have to push the next button two times before Lady Cab Driver kicks in, so fuck off you two songs before. 1999 always irritated me. That first part up til "Automatic" I adore. The second part, with the exception of LCD, I truly loathe to the point I find it unlistenable.

[Edited 1/2/16 14:21pm]

must be a PLANET EARTH fan then.

Wolfie87 said:

thedance said:

Throw in Something In The Water (does not compute) in the mix. Ugh . I guess I don't "get" that song (well, you can't dance to it for starters). But I know for a fact that I always have to push the next button two times before Lady Cab Driver kicks in, so fuck off you two songs before. 1999 always irritated me. That first part up til "Automatic" I adore. The second part, with the exception of LCD, I truly loathe to the point I find it unlistenable.

[Edited 1/2/16 14:21pm]

I'd like to know what Prince mid/slow tempo songs you dig...

1725topp said:

Se7en said:

I think the 1999 album needed another "political" song as a bookend, even though it's not a proper end-of-record bookend.

1999 & Free are the two political/social songs on the album. Otherwise (with the exception of All The Critics Love U In New York), it's all sex and partying.

*

I agree with you, but I think that 1999 as a entire collection was meant to be taken as much more than for sex and partying, espeically considering that sex has always been a metaphor through which Prince could explore other issues. With that said, I like the simplicity of "Free" along with the subtle manner in which it evokes the tone of Civil Rights or Feedom songs, which were usually sung to gospel or spiritual tunes. So, I don't think that it's a coincidence that "Free" has the sound of a gospel song. Additionally, "Free" doesn't end by saying "Hey, let's be glad and party that we are free." It ends by admonishing the listener that we must be diligent in our struggle for freedom, that freedom ain't always free, and that freedom demands constant struggle. "Soldiers are Marching./ They're writing brand new laws./ We must fight together 4 the most important cause." I don't know how this sentiment can be considered lame by anyone unless they only want Prince to write about sex and paryting. The entire song is a very realistic and sobering sentiment. One should be able to be happy for the rights that one has while understanding that one must fight to maintain those rights because evil or opposers of freedom for all never stop. I don't know what makes that a bad or lame idea. Now, I can understand if one just doesn't like gospel sounding songs, but the melody of the song evokes the sound and spirit of gospel and freedom songs quite well.

Thank you.
The ignoramus hanging around here don't get it's a Gospel song.
Politics have nothing to do with it.
I never heard of complex or political lyrics when it comes to gospel.
Musically, "Free" is the playground for the emotional climaxes to come in TBO and PR.

Some suggested that America is first degree.
They probably think "Born in the U.S.A." is also pro-american.

bonatoc said:

Wolfie87 said:

Throw in Something In The Water (does not compute) in the mix. Ugh . I guess I don't "get" that song (well, you can't dance to it for starters). But I know for a fact that I always have to push the next button two times before Lady Cab Driver kicks in, so fuck off you two songs before. 1999 always irritated me. That first part up til "Automatic" I adore. The second part, with the exception of LCD, I truly loathe to the point I find it unlistenable.

[Edited 1/2/16 14:21pm]

I'd like to know what Prince mid/slow tempo songs you dig...

Ok, I'll clear the most obvious choices: Adore (My god!), Scandalous (haunting drum pattern) and If I Was Your Girlfriend (highest musical art in the 80's. His best song in my opinion, sounds like nothing else). Right now I'm digging Insatiable from the D&P beginnings sessions, where he shows everyone in the entertainment business that this shit just got real. Listen to that falsetto from that early recording, never sounded better. And this when he was "washed up", go figure. And last but not least "Electric Intercourse" which I'm convinced he will release. It's just to good to keep for himself. "Something in the water/.../" and "All the critics/.../" don't have an interresting sound structure, they don't go anywhere. It's just Prince kind of jamming (which I do like, but certainly not here)with a droning voice in one of the songs. Really, really boring stuff. Nothing happens!

[Edited 1/2/16 15:54pm]

[Edited 1/2/16 17:53pm]

Wolfie87 said:

I really hate this song. Oh, along with All the critics love U in New York which is total garbage.

Too funny... "listen to yourself"...

Wolfie87 said:

thedance said:

Throw in Something In The Water (does not compute) in the mix. Ugh . I guess I don't "get" that song (well, you can't dance to it for starters). But I know for a fact that I always have to push the next button two times before Lady Cab Driver kicks in, so fuck off you two songs before. 1999 always irritated me. That first part up til "Automatic" I adore. The second part, with the exception of LCD, I truly loathe to the point I find it unlistenable.

[Edited 1/2/16 14:21pm]

Oh Wolfie!

Not getting "Free" is one thing, the two others are inexcusable.

Aerogram said:

Wolfie87 said:

Throw in Something In The Water (does not compute) in the mix. Ugh . I guess I don't "get" that song (well, you can't dance to it for starters). But I know for a fact that I always have to push the next button two times before Lady Cab Driver kicks in, so fuck off you two songs before. 1999 always irritated me. That first part up til "Automatic" I adore. The second part, with the exception of LCD, I truly loathe to the point I find it unlistenable.

[Edited 1/2/16 14:21pm]

Oh Wolfie!

Not getting "Free" is one thing, the two others are inexcusable.

They do absolutely nothing for me. What the hell is the purpose of "Something in the water/.../" if it's inexcusable? Because you really challenged me with that phrase. A wierd beat. That's all I get from it. And it's not that I'm an expert in music, but if you played that song to a person outside this community, I guarantee you they will wonder what kind of insane person you are.

bonatoc said:

1725topp said:

*

I agree with you, but I think that 1999 as a entire collection was meant to be taken as much more than for sex and partying, espeically considering that sex has always been a metaphor through which Prince could explore other issues. With that said, I like the simplicity of "Free" along with the subtle manner in which it evokes the tone of Civil Rights or Feedom songs, which were usually sung to gospel or spiritual tunes. So, I don't think that it's a coincidence that "Free" has the sound of a gospel song. Additionally, "Free" doesn't end by saying "Hey, let's be glad and party that we are free." It ends by admonishing the listener that we must be diligent in our struggle for freedom, that freedom ain't always free, and that freedom demands constant struggle. "Soldiers are Marching./ They're writing brand new laws./ We must fight together 4 the most important cause." I don't know how this sentiment can be considered lame by anyone unless they only want Prince to write about sex and paryting. The entire song is a very realistic and sobering sentiment. One should be able to be happy for the rights that one has while understanding that one must fight to maintain those rights because evil or opposers of freedom for all never stop. I don't know what makes that a bad or lame idea. Now, I can understand if one just doesn't like gospel sounding songs, but the melody of the song evokes the sound and spirit of gospel and freedom songs quite well.

Thank you.
The ignoramus hanging around here don't get it's a Gospel song.
Politics have nothing to do with it.
I never heard of complex or political lyrics when it comes to gospel.
Musically, "Free" is the playground for the emotional climaxes to come in TBO and PR.

Some suggested that America is first degree.
They probably think "Born in the U.S.A." is also pro-american.

*

Yeah, I thought it was pretty funny if not confusing that some were saying that "Free" is patriotic propaganda. I was like, "Whoa, what song are they discussing?" The same is true of "America," which is also challenging America to become more democratic rather than celebrating how democratic it is. But, I guess that shows that lots of people tend to miss irony and subtlety when it's in popular music. And, yes, the same is true of "Born in the U.S.A." I remember when Reagan tried to co-op the song for his second campaign, and Springsteen stopped them immediately.

*

However, I do think that "Free" is political because it infers the notion of "laws" being made to limit people, "soldiers" being used to enforce those laws, and people needing to fight against those soldiers and the implementation of those "laws" to remain "free." Keep in mind that during the Sixties and Seventies it was common practice for Civil Rights workers to rephrase gospel songs with words that fit their particular issue. Instead of singing "Do you got good religion?," they would sing "Do you want your freedom?" Actually, this occurred during the Thirties and Forties as Labor Movement activists reworked gospel songs and added Labor Movement lyrics/themes. Thus, I would argue that Prince is working in this same vein or tradition. So, it seems that Prince is being political even though he's also ambiguous regarding which "laws" one must fight. That's Prince though. Many of his lyrics have always been just ambiguous enough to allow listeners to encode or fill in the blanks, allowing them to make the song be what it means to them. Some folks like this ambiguous style of writing and some don't. For me, it's a case by case issue. Sometimes, like with "Free," it works for me. In other cases, I'd like for him to be a bit more specific. Regardless, "Free," as you state, has an emotional power provided by the gospel tone to give weight to the more ambiguous but existent political statement.

Wolfie87 said:

bonatoc said:

I'd like to know what Prince mid/slow tempo songs you dig...

Ok, I'll clear the most obvious choices: Adore (My god!), Scandalous (haunting drum pattern) and If I Was Your Girlfriend (highest musical art in the 80's. His best song in my opinion, sounds like nothing else). Right now I'm digging Insatiable from the D&P beginnings sessions, where he shows everyone in the entertainment business that this shit just got real. Listen to that falsetto from that early recording, never sounded better. And this when he was "washed up", go figure. And last but not least "Electric Intercourse" which I'm convinced he will release. It's just to good to keep for himself. "Something in the water/.../" and "All the critics/.../" doesn't have an interresting sound structure, they don't go anywhere. It's just Prince kind of jamming (which I do like, but certainly not here)with a droning voice in one of the songs. Really, really boring stuff. Nothing happens!

[Edited 1/2/16 15:54pm]

*

Okay, I like and agree with the choices you cited. I'll only add that for me it is the vocal delivery of "Something in the Water (Does not Compute)" that moves me. The contrast between the urgency in Prince's voice against the monotone computer groove creates the tension. I've always perceived the monotone computer groove as a symbol or metaphor for the cold-hearted female to whom Prince is pouring out his emotions, which, again, for me is the urgency in his delivery. I'm not saying that you must hear it as well but just that the same urgency that I hear/feel in "Adore," "Scandalous," "If I Was Your Girlfriend," and "Insatiable," I hear in "Something in the Water (Does not Computer)." It may be a bit more restrained, but there seems to be a brief dramatic pause between each line, such as "Some people tell me I got great legs" (pause) "Can't figure out why you make me beg" (pause) that provides the urgency in the delivery. Then, by the end, he can no longer retain his composure and releases with "I"ll buy U clothing. I'll buy u fancy cars." By this point in the song, the pauses are gone and its just raw emotion flowing freely. Again, not saying that you must hear it, but it's the same emotion I've heard in the other songs you listed, just delivered differently.

1725topp said:

Wolfie87 said:

Ok, I'll clear the most obvious choices: Adore (My god!), Scandalous (haunting drum pattern) and If I Was Your Girlfriend (highest musical art in the 80's. His best song in my opinion, sounds like nothing else). Right now I'm digging Insatiable from the D&P beginnings sessions, where he shows everyone in the entertainment business that this shit just got real. Listen to that falsetto from that early recording, never sounded better. And this when he was "washed up", go figure. And last but not least "Electric Intercourse" which I'm convinced he will release. It's just to good to keep for himself. "Something in the water/.../" and "All the critics/.../" doesn't have an interresting sound structure, they don't go anywhere. It's just Prince kind of jamming (which I do like, but certainly not here)with a droning voice in one of the songs. Really, really boring stuff. Nothing happens!

[Edited 1/2/16 15:54pm]

*

Okay, I like and agree with the choices you cited. I'll only add that for me it is the vocal delivery of "Something in the Water (Does not Compute)" that moves me. The contrast between the urgency in Prince's voice against the monotone computer groove creates the tension. I've always perceived the monotone computer groove as a symbol or metaphor for the cold-hearted female to whom Prince is pouring out his emotions, which, again, for me is the urgency in his delivery. I'm not saying that you must hear it as well but just that the same urgency that I hear/feel in "Adore," "Scandalous," "If I Was Your Girlfriend," and "Insatiable," I hear in "Something in the Water (Does not Computer)." It may be a bit more restrained, but there seems to be a brief dramatic pause between each line, such as "Some people tell me I got great legs" (pause) "Can't figure out why you make me beg" (pause) that provides the urgency in the delivery. Then, by the end, he can no longer retain his composure and releases with "I"ll buy U clothing. I'll buy u fancy cars." By this point in the song, the pauses are gone and its just raw emotion flowing freely. Again, not saying that you must hear it, but it's the same emotion I've heard in the other songs you listed, just delivered differently.

Great reply. I don't feel the music or the lyrics at all. But I definitely respect your take on the song. And mind you all, I'm probably in the minority who really loathe those two songs and that whole section of 1999. I really wanted more swing and dance and funk and partying around that mark.

Here's what's really interesting about the 1999 album....

The first record (Sides one and two) is the "party" segment (from the title track to "DMSR")

The second record (Sides three and four) gets a little more darker and more serious (On "Automatic" and "Something In The Water",Prince is going crazy over some chick....lol..."Lady Cab Driver" features a sexual interlude where Prince unleashes his fury (lol))

Wolfie87 said:

1725topp said:

*

Okay, I like and agree with the choices you cited. I'll only add that for me it is the vocal delivery of "Something in the Water (Does not Compute)" that moves me. The contrast between the urgency in Prince's voice against the monotone computer groove creates the tension. I've always perceived the monotone computer groove as a symbol or metaphor for the cold-hearted female to whom Prince is pouring out his emotions, which, again, for me is the urgency in his delivery. I'm not saying that you must hear it as well but just that the same urgency that I hear/feel in "Adore," "Scandalous," "If I Was Your Girlfriend," and "Insatiable," I hear in "Something in the Water (Does not Computer)." It may be a bit more restrained, but there seems to be a brief dramatic pause between each line, such as "Some people tell me I got great legs" (pause) "Can't figure out why you make me beg" (pause) that provides the urgency in the delivery. Then, by the end, he can no longer retain his composure and releases with "I"ll buy U clothing. I'll buy u fancy cars." By this point in the song, the pauses are gone and its just raw emotion flowing freely. Again, not saying that you must hear it, but it's the same emotion I've heard in the other songs you listed, just delivered differently.

Great reply. I don't feel the music or the lyrics at all. But I definitely respect your take on the song. And mind you all, I'm probably in the minority who really loathe those two songs and that whole section of 1999. I really wanted more swing and dance and funk and partying around that mark.

*

I definitely understand your point about the manner in which the album switches gears. We'll be moving and enjoying one direction or flow, and without much warning Prince will do a 180. When he does it, sometimes it works better than others.

bonatoc said:

1725topp said:

*

I agree with you, but I think that 1999 as a entire collection was meant to be taken as much more than for sex and partying, espeically considering that sex has always been a metaphor through which Prince could explore other issues. With that said, I like the simplicity of "Free" along with the subtle manner in which it evokes the tone of Civil Rights or Feedom songs, which were usually sung to gospel or spiritual tunes. So, I don't think that it's a coincidence that "Free" has the sound of a gospel song. Additionally, "Free" doesn't end by saying "Hey, let's be glad and party that we are free." It ends by admonishing the listener that we must be diligent in our struggle for freedom, that freedom ain't always free, and that freedom demands constant struggle. "Soldiers are Marching./ They're writing brand new laws./ We must fight together 4 the most important cause." I don't know how this sentiment can be considered lame by anyone unless they only want Prince to write about sex and paryting. The entire song is a very realistic and sobering sentiment. One should be able to be happy for the rights that one has while understanding that one must fight to maintain those rights because evil or opposers of freedom for all never stop. I don't know what makes that a bad or lame idea. Now, I can understand if one just doesn't like gospel sounding songs, but the melody of the song evokes the sound and spirit of gospel and freedom songs quite well.

Thank you.
The ignoramus hanging around here don't get it's a Gospel song.
Politics have nothing to do with it.
I never heard of complex or political lyrics when it comes to gospel.
Musically, "Free" is the playground for the emotional climaxes to come in TBO and PR.

Some suggested that America is first degree.
They probably think "Born in the U.S.A." is also pro-american.

The exact opposite is true. I think the same superficial listeners who think "Born in the USA" is pro-American are exactly the ones who would hear "Free" and just think it's a nice, uplifting ditty offering encouragement to a lost soul. The truth is it's a hybrid song. The verses (which are great) offer a pretty simple sentiment - "look on the bright side" he's saying, but in the chorus he offers a consolation to this poor, lonely soul that is straight out of the propaganda book.

Anyone who can't hear that this is jingoism has to find a way to explain the middle-eight section which is EXPLICITLY militaristic. He talks about soldiers fighting for freedom (he even rams the point home at the end by having the sound of soldiers' marching feet). You cannot ignore the fact that Prince is an American who - like all Americans - has been told his whole life that his country is a "beacon of freedom". All the wicked things America has done were done in the name of promoting this "freedom". Don't believe me? We can easily confirm it by going back to the era in which "Free" was written. Reagan was in the White House. He was supporting an Islamic terrorist group at the time called the mujahideen. You may have heard of them. Some guy called Osama bin Laden was prominent among them. Here's what Reagan said about them in 1983...

"To watch the courageous Afghan freedom fighters battle modern arsenals with simple hand-held weapons is an inspiration to those who love freedom. Their courage teaches us a great lesson—that there are things in this world worth defending.

To the Afghan people, I say on behalf of all Americans that we admire your heroism, your devotion to freedom, and your relentless struggle against your oppressors."

Yeah, these Islamofascists were "freedom fighters" according to Ronnie. Here he is getting cozy with these terrorists, err, sorry, I mean "freedom fighters" at the White House in 1985.

Loved this song since the first time I heard it: the music, the lyrics, the subject. Beautiful. Never understood the attitude it gets here on the org. I have always included "Free" on my slow jams tapes and playlists. The piano is SO pretty. Simple and melodic like a nursery rhyme sung to a child (in the same vein as "A Place In Heaven") yet adult with the dark poignancy of the refrain. I love these songs of his where you get this juxtaposition of opposing emotional forces, with the song's blend of inspired lyrics of hope and heroism, and somber unease of the coda at the songs conclusion. Personally evocative and very touching.

bonatoc said:

Supporting the Mujahideens was just one move amongst others in the Cold War. Reagan was fighting the U.S.S.R., nothing more. I doubt they were terrorists at the time. The movement originated from the will of kicking out the British occupation. I need proof of Prince being a Ronald Reagan supporter...

What the fuck? The mujahideen were ALWAYS a group of extreme Islamist oppressors. They have no belief in "freedom" at all. They were actually worse than the Soviets. At least in the USSR women didn't have to cover their face and you were allowed to listen to music. You wouldn't be stoned to death for adultery. The mujahideen didn't just become bad guys in the 1990s. Their ideology was always explicitly fascist. Wake the fuck up. Reagan knew what they were yet he justified his arming, training and funding them by invoking that catch all propaganda phrase "freedom".

I could quite easily fill up ten pages of this thread with different examples of America doing bad things in the name of "freedom". I only chose the mujahideen one because it was happening at the same time as Prince wrote, recorded and released "Free". And let's be clear. I'm not saying Prince supported Reagan. I'm saying that Americans have that propaganda about "freedom" drummed into their heads all throughout their lives. It's frequently tied to militarism. Prince's song echoes that in a way which cannot be dismissed as coincidence.

I'm not saying he's a right-winger or anything. The truth is I don't think he thought too deeply about any of these things at all. I think he was just writing all the time and so this propaganda he'd ingested would sometimes come out. We all have subconcious, taken-for-granted assumptions that we've inherited from our environment and culture. Prince was just showing some of his in that song.

Bluu said:

Loved this song since the first time I heard it: the music, the lyrics, the subject. Beautiful. Never understood the attitude it gets here on the org. I have always included "Free" on my slow jams tapes and playlists. The piano is SO pretty. Simple and melodic like a nursery rhyme sung to a child (in the same vein as "A Place In Heaven") yet adult with the dark poignancy of the refrain. I love these songs of his where you get this juxtaposition of opposing emotional forces, with the song's blend of inspired lyrics of hope and heroism, and somber unease of the coda at the songs conclusion. Personally evocative and very touching.

I think the combination of the piano and Prince's voice on the first verse especially is one of the best moments of his whole recording career. And yes, the coda is a marvellous finishing touch as well.

midnightmover said:

Anyone who can't hear that this is jingoism has to find a way to explain the middle-eight section which is EXPLICITLY militaristic. He talks about soldiers fighting for freedom (he even rams the point home at the end by having the sound of soldiers' marching feet).

Or perhaps he was using 'soldiers' as a metaphor for people fighting for freedoms denied us by the government, bigots or societal norms. Isn't it possible Prince was influenced by the military metaphors found in the New Testament.

Alternatively, have you never questioned which side those soldiers are on?

"Soldiers are a marching, they're writing brand new laws
Will we all fight together 4 the most important cause?"

This could quite easily be interpreted as people standing up against the military to stop new legislation granting them more powers.

The way I see it, the fact you so strongly believe Prince is advocating jingoism says more about your world view than his lyrics.

airth said:

midnightmover said:

Anyone who can't hear that this is jingoism has to find a way to explain the middle-eight section which is EXPLICITLY militaristic. He talks about soldiers fighting for freedom (he even rams the point home at the end by having the sound of soldiers' marching feet).

Or perhaps he was using 'soldiers' as a metaphor for people fighting for freedoms denied us by the government, bigots or societal norms. Isn't it possible Prince was influenced by the military metaphors found in the New Testament.

Alternatively, have you never questioned which side those soldiers are on?

"Soldiers are a marching, they're writing brand new laws
Will we all fight together 4 the most important cause?"

This could quite easily be interpreted as people standing up against the military to stop new legislation granting them more powers.

The way I see it, the fact you so strongly believe Prince is advocating jingoism says more about your world view than his lyrics.

No, I think you're contorting yourself and getting very creative to try and avoid the obvious, particularly since Prince wrote a song with similar themes just a few years later called "America" which he said himself was "straightforwardly patriotic". I think the "straightforwardly patriotic" explanation works perfectly well for both that song and "Free", so I don't feel the need to dream up wild, alternative explanations.

Prince was regurgitating the brand of "patriotism" that he had ingested his whole life. It is very "straightforward" in that sense. It's just a shame that at that stage he hadn't thought too deeply about what that conflating of patriotism and freedom actually entails. But like I said earlier, he was young at the time so we should probably cut him some slack.

midnightmover said:

No, I think you're contorting yourself and getting very creative to try and avoid the obvious, particularly since Prince wrote a song with similar themes just a few years later called "America" which he said himself was "straightforwardly patriotic". I think the "straightforwardly patriotic" explanation works perfectly well for both that song and "Free", so I don't feel the need to dream up wild, alternative explanations.

Prince was regurgitating the brand of "patriotism" that he had ingested his whole life. It is very "straightforward" in that sense. It's just a shame that at that stage he hadn't thought too deeply about what that conflating of patriotism and freedom actually entails. But like I said earlier, he was young at the time so we should probably cut him some slack.

Until I read this thread, it had honestly never occurred to me to view 'Free' in the way you do. There's no contorting, creativity or wild dreaming going on. I've always heard it as a statement about freedoms in our everyday lives. We just think differently.

I didn't know that Prince said 'America' was "straightforwardly patriotic". It'd be nice to know the context as I can only imagine he was being sarcastic. It's clearly a song written out of fear of communism while at the same time conceding how terrible life can be in democratic America. I don't see how that matches the definition of patriotic: "expressing devotion to and vigorous support for one’s country".

airth said:

midnightmover said:

No, I think you're contorting yourself and getting very creative to try and avoid the obvious, particularly since Prince wrote a song with similar themes just a few years later called "America" which he said himself was "straightforwardly patriotic". I think the "straightforwardly patriotic" explanation works perfectly well for both that song and "Free", so I don't feel the need to dream up wild, alternative explanations.

Prince was regurgitating the brand of "patriotism" that he had ingested his whole life. It is very "straightforward" in that sense. It's just a shame that at that stage he hadn't thought too deeply about what that conflating of patriotism and freedom actually entails. But like I said earlier, he was young at the time so we should probably cut him some slack.

Until I read this thread, it had honestly never occurred to me to view 'Free' in the way you do. There's no contorting, creativity or wild dreaming going on. I've always heard it as a statement about freedoms in our everyday lives. We just think differently.

I didn't know that Prince said 'America' was "straightforwardly patriotic". It'd be nice to know the context as I can only imagine he was being sarcastic. It's clearly a song written out of fear of communism while at the same time conceding how terrible life can be in democratic America. I don't see how that matches the definition of patriotic: "expressing devotion to and vigorous support for one’s country".

Sorry, but those explanations you came up with earlier were a bit of a stretch. My explanation requires much less creativity. And you're showing how much you're deluding yourself here by saying that Prince was surely being sarcastic when he described "America" as "straightforwardly patriotic". I assure you he wasn't. It was in a 1986 interview with a DJ from Detroit whose name escapes me. Take a listen to it if you can find it. There's no sarcasm there. Prince had a patriotic streak. Nothing wrong with that by itself but unfortunately it often goes hand in hand with an arrogant militarism.

But I think "Free" is a great song nonetheless. I like "America" too.