Pentacle said:

He would need WB's permission....... So no.

OLIVE BRANCH.

jarronw23 said:

I was just thinking, is it possible that this HITNRUN era will be 5 seperate albums? I think so. Why?

• 1. First of all if you go on TIDAL's website and go to Prince's page, you will see that at the top of his page there are 5 different pictures. One thing that is interesting about these pictures is that each picture shows Prince with a different look and alludes to a different era in Prince's musical history. In the pictures we see Prince with the 3rdeyegirl/ Phase one look, the 2012--2013/ post W2A look, the Lovesexy era look, the Purple Rain era look, and finally the Controversy era look. It's interesting that the pictures appear in that order, in a backwards chronological order. 5 different eras = 5 different phases/albums?

• 2.It's intersting that today HITNRUN: Phase Two came out and uses the exact same picture that is on TIDAL, the picture that appears right after the photo that was the album art for HITNRUN: PHASE ONE.

• 3. Isn't it a little weird that most of the tracks that appeared on HITNRUN: Phase Two were songs that we had already heard. Most of them came out around 2011-2013, which is the era that Prince is shown in in the album art. Assuming that most of the Phase One songs were, written and produced in the 2014-2015 era, and I'm sure they were because they have Josh all over them, it would seem that Prince is releasing music on these HITNRUN albums that coincide with a certain era or period in his life. The songs released on the first two albums go with the picture on the album art. This is why we have these songs that came out a few years back and also a Prince from a few years ago, which is evidenced by his noticably smaller afro and shades that he wore at the 2012 Iheartmusic festival when he joined Mary J. on stage. HitnRun 2 tracks go backwards in time, which is just how the picyures on Prince's TIDAL page go. Maybe this will be a theme of the series?

• I think that this means that we will be getting five seperate albums or phases of the HITNRUN era. Each album will consist of tracks written and produced around the era that Prince is shown in each of these photos. The next album could consist of tracks recorded around 1986-1990 or something like that, and so on.

• Maybe this is a way for Prince to empty out some of his favorite vault tracks, which is something we all would like. I think this would be a very stylish and very Princely way to do it too. Eventhough we know he has a tendency to update or change around his vault tracks as he sees fit, it's still pretty dope.

• Also, as a sidenote, I thought it was interesting that we see such a huge gap from the PHASE 2 album art picture (2012- 2014 era) and the next picture on the page, which is the LoveSexy era (1988/89). I wondered why there was such a huge number of years in between these two pictures. He definitely went through alot of style changes through this period which is over two decades. He also recorded and also released alot of music during these times. This might be because for most of the years that followed the Lovesexy era he became more associated with and known by the Symbol, which he even changed his name too in 1993. Maybe he only wants to release the PRINCE vault tracks and not the ARTIST vault tracks. He definitely seems like a different guy now than he did for much of the 90s and ARTIST formerly known as era. Even though he didn't go by the symbol all of those years, he started using it alot more around the graffiti bridge era and most people didn't really start calling him Prince again or know that he was back to Prince until after his big mainstream comeback with the release of Musicology or even until the 3121 era.

• Or maybe it's because he actually did release alot of vault music during these years. He might feel like he already got the best material out from these eras. Along with the huge tally of albums that were released for mass consumption, in the ARTIST years and the early part of the millenium, we got Crystal Ball, Old friends 4 Sale, a few albums and tracks released on NPG music club as well as other releases I'm sure I'm sure I am forgetting. It seems that we got alot of vault material from those times, so maybe Prince sees no need to release a HITNRUN album based around these eras. I could be totally wrong and it could just be that those pictures are just the ones that Prince liked the most or they could be his own personal favorite eras of his life so this is why he chose them. Who knows. Either of these would make a pretty cool explanation though for the huge gap.

Maybe I'm wrong about all of this totally and there is no five part series yet. Nobody really knows. If you really think about it though, my explanation makes sense. We'll just have to wait and see. This is what's so cool about Prince, he keeps us guessing and on our toes. I'm definitely anxious to see where this HITNRUN series goes from here now.

Hopefully we can all be peaceful and respectful on this thread. This is all just speculation guys. No need for us to jump down each other's throats like I see going on in alot of the threads. Whether you like his music anymore or not, we are all here for the same reason which is to discuss Prince's music and artistry. We all have our different and varying opinions, let's be cool.

[Edited 12/13/15 1:55am]

I like the way you're thinking!

I imagine anything Prince recorded during the Warner Bros. years are Warner Brothers even if they were unreleased. They paid him over 100 million dollars for a time period. Also I imagine Prince wasn't sure on some of his albums which songs he was going to use and submitted various versions as well as unreleased songs (that got turned down) although I have no way of knowing if this is true.

ComeHereLetMeCutYourHair said:

I imagine anything Prince recorded during the Warner Bros. years are Warner Brothers even if they were unreleased. They paid him over 100 million dollars for a time period. Also I imagine Prince wasn't sure on some of his albums which songs he was going to use and submitted various versions as well as unreleased songs (that got turned down) although I have no way of knowing if this is true.

WB wasn't making the albums tracklists and only heard the finished products Prince submitted them, not everything he recorded. There have been a few occasions when they asked or suggested him to make changes to an album, but those occasions were relatively rare and are well documented.

Pentacle said:

tollyc said:

He would need permision for what? The songs he never gave them in the 1978-1995 era belong to him. Unrelased songs are just that, unreleased.

In theory the 1987-1989 HitnRun album could contain Adonis & Bathsheba, The Line, Cosmic Day, Grand Progression, etc...

No, it could not. WB paid for studio time etc.

Releasing Crystal Ball was actually illegal. Possibly because of the public argument WB said nothing,

but they did with the NPGMc or whatever audio shows.

.

And I'm still convinced WBR gets "first dibs" on Prince's current output. Hence him bitching about HNR2 and WBR.

BartVanHemelen said:

Pentacle said:

No, it could not. WB paid for studio time etc.

Releasing Crystal Ball was actually illegal. Possibly because of the public argument WB said nothing,

but they did with the NPGMc or whatever audio shows.

.

And I'm still convinced WBR gets "first dibs" on Prince's current output. Hence him bitching about HNR2 and WBR.

u mean 12 good of 23 tracks is his best???

BartVanHemelen said:

Pentacle said:

No, it could not. WB paid for studio time etc.

Releasing Crystal Ball was actually illegal. Possibly because of the public argument WB said nothing,

but they did with the NPGMc or whatever audio shows.

.

And I'm still convinced WBR gets "first dibs" on Prince's current output. Hence him bitching about HNR2 and WBR.

Agreed!! I'm convinced WBR still gets "first dibs" on everything that's Prince because it seems if Prince had hi way he would be releasing stuff left and right--then again, he is I wonder if Prince is so crazy he pretends that WBR is holding back the release of HNR2 so we feel sorry for him

WB doesn't get "first dibs" on that material, because it was never delivered to them in the first place. Only the albums that were originally delivered during his contract with them, or the b-sides and what-not, are subject to WB ownership. In most cases, the tunes Prince recorded were done at his home studio, or at Paisley Park, and were done on his dime. An argument COULD be made for his earlier output, since WB paid for the studio time, but that would be shaky ground legally anyway, since he did deliver the contractually obligated albums (and, at this point, the owneship of those tracks has reverted back to him anyway). Once an artist delivers the album the label pays for, all the other material is the artist's to keep until the length of the contract is up. If Prince had tried to release these tracks while under his contract, it would be a very different story, but once the contract has expired? The tracks can be released independantly.

Crystal Ball wasn't an "illegal" release. None of the versions on the disc were in dispute as being done out of Prince's contract with Warner, with the exception of "Good Love" being an edit of a previously released track. It wasn't worth Warner's time to sue over that one track, since a legal argument could be made that it was different enough to qualify as being the same as the version on the "Bright Lights, Big City" soundtrack. During that time period, you can bet that WB would have sued if they thought Prince was dicking them over.

JediMaster said:

WB doesn't get "first dibs" on that material, because it was never delivered to them in the first place. Only the albums that were originally delivered during his contract with them, or the b-sides and what-not, are subject to WB ownership. In most cases, the tunes Prince recorded were done at his home studio, or at Paisley Park, and were done on his dime. An argument COULD be made for his earlier output, since WB paid for the studio time, but that would be shaky ground legally anyway, since he did deliver the contractually obligated albums (and, at this point, the owneship of those tracks has reverted back to him anyway). Once an artist delivers the album the label pays for, all the other material is the artist's to keep until the length of the contract is up. If Prince had tried to release these tracks while under his contract, it would be a very different story, but once the contract has expired? The tracks can be released independantly.

Crystal Ball wasn't an "illegal" release. None of the versions on the disc were in dispute as being done out of Prince's contract with Warner, with the exception of "Good Love" being an edit of a previously released track. It wasn't worth Warner's time to sue over that one track, since a legal argument could be made that it was different enough to qualify as being the same as the version on the "Bright Lights, Big City" soundtrack. During that time period, you can bet that WB would have sued if they thought Prince was dicking them over.

I'll take Alan Leeds' word over yours, sorry. He clearly stated that anything recorded by Prince during the WB years couldn't be released without WB's agreement.

The edit of Good Love is irrelevant: editing a track doesn't annihilate the ownership of its master. Imagine the craziness if it was that easy for an artist to claim a song back! This last bit shows you don't know what you are talking about. No personal offense meant, just making a point. Interactive also belonged to WB (as stated by the CD-Rom's indicia). And WB would have had a great deal to say about the remixes of Come and TGE tracks. Same with rereleasing Horny Pony and Thieves In The Temple on NPGMC.

I don't think WB had anything to gain from sueing Prince over an independent release, a low profile costly box-set: Prince would have lost but he would also have turned the whole thing into another public plea for artists' freedom and I guess at this point WB didn't care much for so much trouble. Thing is if P couldn't release vault material without WB's agreement, WB couldn't either release any such material without Prince delivering it to them, and they couldn't force his hand. The material was literally stuck in limbo unless both parties reched an agreement, so there was no loss per se for WB. I guess maybe they freaked out when they learned P was rereleasing "their" songs on the internet: they probably felt if they would let him continue he probably would push it too far and begin selling lots of WB material on his website without paying them their share. Then again we don't know whether they reacted to CB, Rave or NPGMC and if so what they said, this is just speculation from my part. Alan Leeds' claims, however, are not.

Possible 5 Phases of the HitNRun Albums:

FUNKY!!!! 777

[Edited 12/16/15 10:44am]

databank said:

The edit of Good Love is irrelevant: editing a track doesn't annihilate the ownership of its master. Imagine the craziness if it was that easy for an artist to claim a song back!

He seemed to have learned about these technicalities after the fact which drove him to start rerecording things. I can't remember which year it was when there were rumors he was rerecording his entire unreleased catalogue or something along those lines.

how many songs we know of remain?

laurarichardson said:

funksterr said:

Even if that is true, it's a terrible idea, and a it's plan that is being terribly executed. First the title, HnR:Phase, is a greebly mouthful of nothing. As a consumer, you don't need to know what's on the album to just feel like, "PASS". Second, is there even a market for one Prince album, right now? What about 8 in less than 2 years? That's just too much. And then consider that none of the albums have anything close to a hot single on them and.... YES. I think this must be Prince's plan. Because it's every bit as ridiculous as anything he's come up with in the past.

/--/ He has good singles for the Urban Ac chart he has. Song on that chart right now. He has no chance at almost 60 years of age. Pop station do not play music by 60 year old guys. He is making music for the audience that is supporting him.

You said that when he was 40 too... just sayin'.

lezama said:

databank said:

The edit of Good Love is irrelevant: editing a track doesn't annihilate the ownership of its master. Imagine the craziness if it was that easy for an artist to claim a song back!

He seemed to have learned about these technicalities after the fact which drove him to start rerecording things. I can't remember which year it was when there were rumors he was rerecording his entire unreleased catalogue or something along those lines.

Rerecording is something entirely different than editing/remixing.

According to Boris, Prince indeed rerecorded his entire catalogue around 97-99. hard to believe but Boris knows his shit.

databank said:

JediMaster said:

WB doesn't get "first dibs" on that material, because it was never delivered to them in the first place. Only the albums that were originally delivered during his contract with them, or the b-sides and what-not, are subject to WB ownership. In most cases, the tunes Prince recorded were done at his home studio, or at Paisley Park, and were done on his dime. An argument COULD be made for his earlier output, since WB paid for the studio time, but that would be shaky ground legally anyway, since he did deliver the contractually obligated albums (and, at this point, the owneship of those tracks has reverted back to him anyway). Once an artist delivers the album the label pays for, all the other material is the artist's to keep until the length of the contract is up. If Prince had tried to release these tracks while under his contract, it would be a very different story, but once the contract has expired? The tracks can be released independantly.

Crystal Ball wasn't an "illegal" release. None of the versions on the disc were in dispute as being done out of Prince's contract with Warner, with the exception of "Good Love" being an edit of a previously released track. It wasn't worth Warner's time to sue over that one track, since a legal argument could be made that it was different enough to qualify as being the same as the version on the "Bright Lights, Big City" soundtrack. During that time period, you can bet that WB would have sued if they thought Prince was dicking them over.

I'll take Alan Leeds' word over yours, sorry. He clearly stated that anything recorded by Prince during the WB years couldn't be released without WB's agreement.

The edit of Good Love is irrelevant: editing a track doesn't annihilate the ownership of its master. Imagine the craziness if it was that easy for an artist to claim a song back! This last bit shows you don't know what you are talking about. No personal offense meant, just making a point. Interactive also belonged to WB (as stated by the CD-Rom's indicia). And WB would have had a great deal to say about the remixes of Come and TGE tracks. Same with rereleasing Horny Pony and Thieves In The Temple on NPGMC.

I don't think WB had anything to gain from sueing Prince over an independent release, a low profile costly box-set: Prince would have lost but he would also have turned the whole thing into another public plea for artists' freedom and I guess at this point WB didn't care much for so much trouble. Thing is if P couldn't release vault material without WB's agreement, WB couldn't either release any such material without Prince delivering it to them, and they couldn't force his hand. The material was literally stuck in limbo unless both parties reched an agreement, so there was no loss per se for WB. I guess maybe they freaked out when they learned P was rereleasing "their" songs on the internet: they probably felt if they would let him continue he probably would push it too far and begin selling lots of WB material on his website without paying them their share. Then again we don't know whether they reacted to CB, Rave or NPGMC and if so what they said, this is just speculation from my part. Alan Leeds' claims, however, are not.

Well, I'll take the word over the folks that I know that used to work for P (and, I suspect, some of my sources may have been the same as BorisFishPaw's). No offense taken though. We're both basing what we know on third party knowledge. The editing thing, though, is a legal loophole that has been debated for quite some time, especially since Prince owns the actual publishing of the track (and that is a key factor in all of this as well). This is why he was rerecording his catalog at one point, and some of those "rerecordings" are just a change in vocal tracking or a bit of instrumentation. Not all of them are as drastic as "1999: The New Master". I personally question how solid of a legal move it is, but Prince DEFINITELY thought he was on safe ground when he was putting together CB.

I know Alan Leeds is in the know on certain things, but I also think it depends on each different case. In some cases, I don't think it is clear what was recorded on WB's dime, and which ones were recorded independently. You use the example of "Interactive", and that is a perfect example: It was delivered, on more than one occassion, to WB. Since it was actually released, THAT version of Interactive definitely belongs to WB, but the other edit that was released on CB? It's a bit murky, but I doubt WB had much legal ground on that one.

Another possibility that none of us are considering here, is we don't know what negotiations were made between the legal teams of Prince and WB when he was released from his contract. It could very well be that they agreed to let him keep the majority of his vault songs to release on his own, in exchange for other considerations. All I can say for sure, is that the folks I knew who were in the Prince camp at the time (this was the mid-to-late-90's), were under the distinct impression that Prince could release any of his vault tracks on his own, and was only restricted from using material that was released on the Warner albums.

JediMaster said:

databank said:

I'll take Alan Leeds' word over yours, sorry. He clearly stated that anything recorded by Prince during the WB years couldn't be released without WB's agreement.

The edit of Good Love is irrelevant: editing a track doesn't annihilate the ownership of its master. Imagine the craziness if it was that easy for an artist to claim a song back! This last bit shows you don't know what you are talking about. No personal offense meant, just making a point. Interactive also belonged to WB (as stated by the CD-Rom's indicia). And WB would have had a great deal to say about the remixes of Come and TGE tracks. Same with rereleasing Horny Pony and Thieves In The Temple on NPGMC.

I don't think WB had anything to gain from sueing Prince over an independent release, a low profile costly box-set: Prince would have lost but he would also have turned the whole thing into another public plea for artists' freedom and I guess at this point WB didn't care much for so much trouble. Thing is if P couldn't release vault material without WB's agreement, WB couldn't either release any such material without Prince delivering it to them, and they couldn't force his hand. The material was literally stuck in limbo unless both parties reched an agreement, so there was no loss per se for WB. I guess maybe they freaked out when they learned P was rereleasing "their" songs on the internet: they probably felt if they would let him continue he probably would push it too far and begin selling lots of WB material on his website without paying them their share. Then again we don't know whether they reacted to CB, Rave or NPGMC and if so what they said, this is just speculation from my part. Alan Leeds' claims, however, are not.

Well, I'll take the word over the folks that I know that used to work for P (and, I suspect, some of my sources may have been the same as BorisFishPaw's). No offense taken though. We're both basing what we know on third party knowledge. The editing thing, though, is a legal loophole that has been debated for quite some time, especially since Prince owns the actual publishing of the track (and that is a key factor in all of this as well). This is why he was rerecording his catalog at one point, and some of those "rerecordings" are just a change in vocal tracking or a bit of instrumentation. Not all of them are as drastic as "1999: The New Master". I personally question how solid of a legal move it is, but Prince DEFINITELY thought he was on safe ground when he was putting together CB.

I know Alan Leeds is in the know on certain things, but I also think it depends on each different case. In some cases, I don't think it is clear what was recorded on WB's dime, and which ones were recorded independently. You use the example of "Interactive", and that is a perfect example: It was delivered, on more than one occassion, to WB. Since it was actually released, THAT version of Interactive definitely belongs to WB, but the other edit that was released on CB? It's a bit murky, but I doubt WB had much legal ground on that one.

Another possibility that none of us are considering here, is we don't know what negotiations were made between the legal teams of Prince and WB when he was released from his contract. It could very well be that they agreed to let him keep the majority of his vault songs to release on his own, in exchange for other considerations. All I can say for sure, is that the folks I knew who were in the Prince camp at the time (this was the mid-to-late-90's), were under the distinct impression that Prince could release any of his vault tracks on his own, and was only restricted from using material that was released on the Warner albums.

Interesting, thx for sharing. Boris never mentioned that those tracks contained any parts of the original tracks (though 1999 remaster does contain some but it's basically only the intro and some drum machine IIRC -I'd have to listen again- and that was at this time when he was toying with legal limits or so I think.)

.

It's possible that Alan Leeds was unaware of further negociations indeed. He could even be wrong for all we know, though he seems to be quite picky with details and aware of contractual closes. And it's also possible that Prince thought he could release unreleased vault material and was mistaken: typically he seems disconnected from such technicalities: according to a report he was convinced until mid 1994 that if he left WB he'd be able to take the whole WB catalogue with him and he was pissed as hell when his lawyers told him it wasn't the case. IDK how much of that story is true, though: thist party again.

.

What I find very doubtful though, even though I'm no lawyer, is that editing part: just imagine it's true: then Prince would have been free to release a Greatest Hits package under NPG Records by just editing out a portion, or delivering a slightly altered mix of the original tracks. Any artist would therefore be able to do that and release contract albums or compilations of tracks from a former label and get 100% of the money. The mere fact that there is no precedent (AFAIK) tells me it's impossible. Moreover one can't even use a 10 seconds sample from a track without permission of the masters owner of said track: licencing of course is usually automatic but technically a label could oppose the use of a sample if they wished to (it's happened, in that case there are precedents). And that even applies to one's own songs (see for example how George Clinton had to licence himself from past labels to use samples of past material on Hey Man... Smell My Finger). I fail to see how one could need a licence to use a short sample, including a sample of one's own work, but could be allowed to use a song as such, minus 30 seconds of it (or by adding 3 minutes to it) without restrictions. Even the short 2 seconds WB samples on that segue on Musicology would theorically have needed licencing from WB (but P got away with it). And usually licencing compulsarily goes with a permission notice on the album's booklet, and there was none on CB. And this does not explain the totally unaltered Thieves In The Temple on NPGMC.

.

So my take is that OK, it is very possible that Prince thought he could use vault material and maybe even he could. However then I'm puzzled at how NOT a SINGLE vault track from the WB years surfaced after 2001, studio or live, but it's possible Prince just changed his mind about the vault. Maybe he also thought toying with WB tracks was something he could do but I am absolutely convinced that he was wrong if this is the case for the aforementioned reasons. Now whether WB told him to cut the crap or not, IDK.

.

I'd be very much interested in knowing more of what you know from your sources about those rerecording the whole catalogue sessions: Boris said little about it in the end except that P did indeed rerecord everything (quite crazy!), that Larry had to leave the studio when P was recording curses and that according to Boris the tracks sounded much like Purple Medley (which would make sense if the samples of Let's Work and Endorphinmachine on the NPGMC site were from such sessions, but were they?). I also know from another third party that none of those tracks contained any new horns. But that's pretty dim in the end, I'd love to hear more about it!

funksterr said:

I think you're dead-on with regard to the whole editing thing. I think Prince THOUGHT he could do that, but was later counseled otherwise. It was definitely something he thought could be a legal loophole, but later found out otherwise. I think WB didn't press the issue with regards to "Good Love" because...why bother? It wasn't a hit, and the soundtrack wasn't in print at that point.

As to the story you heard about Prince thinking his masters would come with him, that jibes with what I've heard. In fact, the story I was told was that he thought he owned all his material, until a conversation with Nona Gaye hipped him to the fact that she didn't own any of her father's material. It was, at that point, that he called his lawyers and found out that he definitely did NOT own the masters. Shortly after, we started seeing "slave" scrawled on his face.

What you're describing regarding the rerecordings is also in line with what I've heard. No new horns, and (in many cases), only a vocal track and guitar or bass line being replaced. Any of the instrumentation provided by the Clare Fisher Orchestra was also intact in all of the tracks to feature it. In most cases, he kept the backing vocal tracks from the original recordings intact, especially if it involved other singers besides himself (Wendy and Lisa, Susanna, Jill Jones, etc., were usually left in their backing vocals spots). In other instances, I've heard of the entire song being done from scratch (I've heard this with regard to Let's Work and Sexy MF, specifically). Now, I've also heard he only rerecorded the tracks that were on albums or b-sides...no vault songs, but that doesn't exactly surprise me. I was told, at one point, P was in the studio at all hours doing new versions of as much material as he could. The story about Larry is accurate, and I've also heard P recorded two vocal tracks in a few cases, with "clean" lyrics, at Larry's urging. A "Greatest Hits" package was put together at one point, containing all new recordings, but it was later shelved. This is around the time I lost contact with my sources, so I can't speculate as to what happened there. Unfortunately, I never got to hear any of the tracks myself, but Boris definitely knew his stuff...so I'd trust his assesment completely.

You may very well be correct about all the material post-2001. Perhaps WB decided to make an issue of it? Maybe a lawyer got involved that thought they could make a buck off the issue? Maybe it was Prince being Prince? Who knows, but you make a good point in all of this: even with sources like Alan Leeds or former Paisley/NPG employees, there still is a lot of unknowns when it comes to the specifics and the legalities surrounding these recordings

Databank, congratulations on a fine post, I checked the Tidal page and sure enough, there are the five images of Prince. I can't wait to see what is on Phases 3, 4 and 5 and assume if this is true and Phase 3 will arrive in March/April with a horn enhanced version of Good Love and then Phase 4 in June/July (Waiting for a jazzed up Roadhouse Garden and Electric Intercourse) and Phase 5 in Sep 2016 with the inevitable Private Joy with extended sax solo and feel u up with whammy bar!

.

My thoughts - one theory is he has skipped 1989- 2010 as the period was well covered by albums (The 20Ten album and PLE/AOA had a 51 month period of no new albums between them, just tours, new singles like Screwdriver and Breakfast can wait, and a lot of hype, this was the longest ever period with no new official album.

.

Another theory is that Prince want's to leave his trend chasing rap phase (1990 - 1993) behind and also the plastic drums/pop phase of 1996 - 2000 in the past and his creativity dried up them, just since 2005 he has hit this seam as the elder statesman of funk, where artists like Andy Allo, Lianne lahavas and Eryn Allen Kane are told to be authentic and real (Prince told Kane to put her soul into the Baltimore track!).

.

Also there is not that much material after 1988/89, the work and ivault collections have at least 40 songs for each folder from 1982 to 1988, but after that there is a lot of remxies and various takes of several songs, it is like after Lovesexy, the creativity wore thin.

.

My other point is where is Warner Brothers in all of this, my Phase1 CD has no insignia about WB on it like AOA and PLE did, just a Copyright 2015 NPG Records, Prince has been releasing product on NPG since 1996 and had other labels distribute, but is NPG distributing this one? Was Warners just a once off project like all his other recent label dalliances.

.

The other question is , where is 3rd eye girl, we know Josh is producing, but is the group going to be involved in the other phases, Phase 2 sounds like the Hornheadz and possibly members of the NPG current version (Which of 3EG only Ida has been in on Bass).

.

Anyway throught provoking and lets hope there are phases 3 to 5. I don't care about hot singles, Prince is mature artist with a mature following, most of us hardcore fans are in our 40s and even 50s, at 39 I am a relative baby, there are many fans in the teens and 20s, but most of us according to org surveys were in our teens in the 1980s and a 2014 survey revealed an average age of 42 with many fans being 44 (Who were 12 or 13 when they got into purple rain) and 39/40 (People aged 13 - 16 when Diamonds and Pearls came out). We are not the core audience of "Hot singles" which is mainly 12 - 20 year olds, who will buy the latest crap with Justin Bieber, Nicki Minaj, Marron 5, Ed Sheeran, Katie Perry or Beyonce on it. Also a test is how many of us like 2015's most popular song, Silento's watch me with the annoying "Watch me nae nae line" Silento is 17 and probably never heard of Prince.

.

People the day Prince puts a hit out with Nicki Minaj or Silento guesting is the day, I stop liking him. My guess is in Prince's move for authenticity he considers shit hop and cheaply made rap dance songs, the height of crappiness like me.

JediMaster said:

I think you're dead-on with regard to the whole editing thing. I think Prince THOUGHT he could do that, but was later counseled otherwise. It was definitely something he thought could be a legal loophole, but later found out otherwise. I think WB didn't press the issue with regards to "Good Love" because...why bother? It wasn't a hit, and the soundtrack wasn't in print at that point.

As to the story you heard about Prince thinking his masters would come with him, that jibes with what I've heard. In fact, the story I was told was that he thought he owned all his material, until a conversation with Nona Gaye hipped him to the fact that she didn't own any of her father's material. It was, at that point, that he called his lawyers and found out that he definitely did NOT own the masters. Shortly after, we started seeing "slave" scrawled on his face.

What you're describing regarding the rerecordings is also in line with what I've heard. No new horns, and (in many cases), only a vocal track and guitar or bass line being replaced. Any of the instrumentation provided by the Clare Fisher Orchestra was also intact in all of the tracks to feature it. In most cases, he kept the backing vocal tracks from the original recordings intact, especially if it involved other singers besides himself (Wendy and Lisa, Susanna, Jill Jones, etc., were usually left in their backing vocals spots). In other instances, I've heard of the entire song being done from scratch (I've heard this with regard to Let's Work and Sexy MF, specifically). Now, I've also heard he only rerecorded the tracks that were on albums or b-sides...no vault songs, but that doesn't exactly surprise me. I was told, at one point, P was in the studio at all hours doing new versions of as much material as he could. The story about Larry is accurate, and I've also heard P recorded two vocal tracks in a few cases, with "clean" lyrics, at Larry's urging. A "Greatest Hits" package was put together at one point, containing all new recordings, but it was later shelved. This is around the time I lost contact with my sources, so I can't speculate as to what happened there. Unfortunately, I never got to hear any of the tracks myself, but Boris definitely knew his stuff...so I'd trust his assesment completely.

You may very well be correct about all the material post-2001. Perhaps WB decided to make an issue of it? Maybe a lawyer got involved that thought they could make a buck off the issue? Maybe it was Prince being Prince? Who knows, but you make a good point in all of this: even with sources like Alan Leeds or former Paisley/NPG employees, there still is a lot of unknowns when it comes to the specifics and the legalities surrounding these recordings

Thx for the additional info!

U must have tons of insightful info to share: would u feel inclined to create a thread to do so (at least what can be revealed without invading P's privacy, just the stuff related to music)?

funksterr said:

Even if that is true, it's a terrible idea, and a it's plan that is being terribly executed. First the title, HnR:Phase, is a greebly mouthful of nothing. As a consumer, you don't need to know what's on the album to just feel like, "PASS". Second, is there even a market for one Prince album, right now? What about 8 in less than 2 years? That's just too much. And then consider that none of the albums have anything close to a hot single on them and.... YES. I think this must be Prince's plan. Because it's every bit as ridiculous as anything he's come up with in the past.

prince is not trying to sell major figures. He gets his money from Tidal up front. He is happy with the number he gets and is giving us the music. Only Prince fans would complain that he is giving us too much music. You just pass on these then and let us enjoy them. I love this and hope he keeps releasing a new album every three months. Keep them coming Prince!!

trax said:

funksterr said:

Even if that is true, it's a terrible idea, and a it's plan that is being terribly executed. First the title, HnR:Phase, is a greebly mouthful of nothing. As a consumer, you don't need to know what's on the album to just feel like, "PASS". Second, is there even a market for one Prince album, right now? What about 8 in less than 2 years? That's just too much. And then consider that none of the albums have anything close to a hot single on them and.... YES. I think this must be Prince's plan. Because it's every bit as ridiculous as anything he's come up with in the past.

prince is not trying to sell major figures. He gets his money from Tidal up front. He is happy with the number he gets and is giving us the music. Only Prince fans would complain that he is giving us too much music. You just pass on these then and let us enjoy them. I love this and hope he keeps releasing a new album every three months. Keep them coming Prince!!

Prince fans complaining on a Prince fans forum that Prince releases too much music shows the level of absurdity (not to say trolling) this community has reached. I'm pretty sure you don't get to read this on other artists' forums (or probably other Prince boards for that matter).

One would expect Prince fans to want to have as much Prince music as possible but no, some will worry whether those albums will sale or not as if they had their share of money on album sales, which they don't. Being concerned about something that doesn't concern them instead of rejoicing at the idea their favorite artist is delivering an album every three months when most deliver an album every couple of years: sheer nonsense.

Anyway up until this year those same people would complain that Prince wasn't releasing enough music anymore.

Their posts have little to do with what Prince does or doesn't do in the end, it's just some kind of ritual bitching that will jump at every opportunity to bitch, as if Prince had done something to them personally.

Intellectually this is mediocre at best, and a lot of time and space wasted for those who have to go through all that nonsense in order to read the interesting posts.

I wish the mods would be a little more selective as to who can or cannot legitimately belong to this community.

[Edited 12/19/15 7:35am]

databank said:

Adorecream said:

databank said:

Prince fans complaining on a Prince fans forum that Prince releases too much music shows the level of absurdity (not to say trolling) this community has reached. I'm pretty sure you don't get to read this on other artists' forums (or probably other Prince boards for that matter).

One would expect Prince fans to want to have as much Prince music as possible but no, some will worry whether those albums will sale or not as if they had their share of money on album sales, which they don't. Being concerned about something that doesn't concern them instead of rejoicing at the idea their favorite artist is delivering an album every three months when most deliver an album every couple of years: sheer nonsense.

Anyway up until this year those same people would complain that Prince wasn't releasing enough music anymore.

Their posts have little to do with what Prince does or doesn't do in the end, it's just some kind of ritual bitching that will jump at every opportunity to bitch, as if Prince had done something to them personally.

Intellectually this is mediocre at best, and a lot of time and space wasted for those who have to go through all that nonsense in order to read the interesting posts.

I wish the mods would be a little more selective as to who can or cannot legitimately belong to this community.

[Edited 12/19/15 7:35am]

I agree with you, too many trolls here who seem to think Prince owes them Purple rain with every new album and if the new album fails to hit that mark, well he is just a stuck up prick with no talent left. Then of course we have the over the hill mob, who think any artist over 27 is a fossil. Well their precious Nikki Minaj is now 33 and acts like a 14 year old hoe. Then we have the mob who actually believe he is gay and all the other stuff. The activist types also who are so pie eyed over being either hard core dogmatic Christians, African American kunta kinde types who believe is like Amaru Bushraker and everything he does is a gift for mother Africa, and even the militant gays. All of these interest groups exclude the true fans and musical discussion types like us. We need two orgs, org standard for the haters, kunta kintes, trolls and militant gays and org real for the rest of us.

I can name all the regular boring trolls for the mods , if they want. Am sure the mods can anyway. I love that some trolls try to belittle fans calling them famz if how is a bad word. Its a Prince forum afterall so fans are going to be here, and no i don't think everything Prince does is cool or a masterpiece. That seems to be only one orger with that shit.

Prince.org should give you a prize if your theory is correct. Sounds wonderderful to me; this way we'll know we're getting brilliance from the vault and not his new brilliance — since we're not getting album booklets anymore with all the song details — as we should.

One of my buddies is still listening to AOA, still hasn't heard AnotherLove, I told him he needs to catch up, because Prince is on a roll.

I think it more likely that the next 'phases' will be 'types' of music rather than different eras. We have had the I ("dance") and II ("funk") albums, probably rock (3EG) and piano come next. He was about to do some solo piano & voice shows remember.

timmie said:

I think it more likely that the next 'phases' will be 'types' of music rather than different eras. We have had the I ("dance") and II ("funk") albums, probably rock (3EG) and piano come next. He was about to do some solo piano & voice shows remember.

This. From databank and JediMaster's discussion, it's not very likely that Prince will release anything from the WB era. Unless a new agreement has been found, which is very unlikely. Personally, I would be very happy to get 4 albums a year, even with recent/new stuff. This is way more convenient than collecting everything Prince released or streamed over the years using databank's excellent discography.

olb99 said:

timmie said:

I think it more likely that the next 'phases' will be 'types' of music rather than different eras. We have had the I ("dance") and II ("funk") albums, probably rock (3EG) and piano come next. He was about to do some solo piano & voice shows remember.

This. From databank and JediMaster's discussion, it's not very likely that Prince will release anything from the WB era. Unless a new agreement has been found, which is very unlikely. Personally, I would be very happy to get 4 albums a year, even with recent/new stuff. This is way more convenient than collecting everything Prince released or streamed over the years using databank's excellent discography.

More than a matter of rights I think releasing old vault stuff would be out of place in a series that has began by 2 albums of recent material. It would be odd to say the least: vault releases would need their own series.

I'm inclined to believe Timmie has it right: maybe the next album will be rocker material, there could also be an electrofunk album and a jazz or piano thing, whatever. There's enough material from 2011-2015 to complete 3 more albums.

I almost made a similar thread when HITNRUN: Phase One was released actually, as I can't find any other explanation for the 5 album covers.

The release of Phase Two all but confirms he is planning to release all 5 phases on Tidal over a 12 month period.

I love the concept.

Prince seems to be going back in time with each album. Whether he meant it or not, you might be able to interpret numerous hints about this on Phase One. While he often references old songs and this may just be a coincidence, I did find it fitting that the first song on his first album, For You, opened the whole HITNRUN concept, which would be going backwards in time towards that song. It makes no sense yet, but it will soon

Such a concept would allow Prince to draw inspiration from his own work that has already been heard illegally, then sell it as new. And if I may extend my imagination, the conclusion of such a project would cap off the most prolific 12-24 months of album releases in Prince's career (from the perspective of a short turnaround between albums), which would be the perfect time to use that brightened spotlight to finally release a Purple Rain deluxe remaster.

From a business perspective, it would also shed new light on his relationship with Tidal.

Older crowd are generally slower to adopt new technology in any field, let alone in paying for a music streaming service on their computer/smart devices. The average age of Prince's fanbase is 42. That's a relatively untapped market in the music streaming business, and they have money. Initially, nobody heard of them and nobody was going to pay for it. Most of us signed up for a free month. Purple picks tempted us to pay, but many of us ended our subscription. Then we realise there will be new albums released every 3 months in FLAC.

Tidal will now be in a position to win over a number of 40yo+ Prince fans for the next 9 months.

If this is the plan, no wonder Tidal paid up front.

Prince gets to release old/new music as quickly as he likes, his fans get to lap up almost 100 newly released songs within 2 years, and Tidal take a risk to win over a potentially cashed-up latent market.

Win/win/win if true.

[Edited 12/20/15 6:02am]