Noodled24 said:

funksterr said:

Josh writes the melodies, too! Josh said in one of the now, too numerous to keep track of, interviews that he starts with the melodies first, and prince simply adds his guitar and vocals, usually without touching the rest of the track.

1) - some of the melodies, the example I think he cited was that he contributed the piano melody to Way Back Home. I don't think he spoke about the vocal melody.

2) How are you proposing Prince simply adds his vocal? if the melody has already been written by Josh?

3) Never was it said Prince "Usually never touches anything else"

4) Josh said Prince handed him a hard drive with loads of different vocals on it... That would lead me to believe these are songs Prince has finished. It would be bloody strange if he'd written the lyrics, and sang the vocals and just stopped. Infact 1000 Hugs and Kisses dates back to the 90s. So we don't even know if these are new songs or just stuff taken from the vault with Josh putting a new perspective on them.

I'm not sure why you are nitpicking my statements for examples of inconsistencies, in what we've been told. I don't think JOSH or Prince are lying when they say JOSH is doing the majority of the writing and heavy lifting on their collaborations which frees Prince, to act as his own business agent, manager, lawyer, accountant, publicist, copyright enforcer and whatnot. It's clear Prince trusts Josh with the musical end of his business much more than he trusts anyone else with his copyrights and finances. I get it. It's actually pretty ingenious on Prince's part. However... I don't like it, yet. Josh isn't baggin' out hit-level material or at least artistic and creative wins. To this point, we've gotten an updated equivalent of the same emperor-with-no-clothes, c-list material Prince was doing WITHOUT Josh.

I'm fine with Prince focusing on business, and letting someone else write him some hits. Josh just isn't getting the job done.

funksterr said:

Noodled24 said:

1) - some of the melodies, the example I think he cited was that he contributed the piano melody to Way Back Home. I don't think he spoke about the vocal melody.

2) How are you proposing Prince simply adds his vocal? if the melody has already been written by Josh?

3) Never was it said Prince "Usually never touches anything else"

4) Josh said Prince handed him a hard drive with loads of different vocals on it... That would lead me to believe these are songs Prince has finished. It would be bloody strange if he'd written the lyrics, and sang the vocals and just stopped. Infact 1000 Hugs and Kisses dates back to the 90s. So we don't even know if these are new songs or just stuff taken from the vault with Josh putting a new perspective on them.

I'm not sure why you are nitpicking my statements for examples of inconsistencies, in what we've been told. I don't think JOSH or Prince are lying when they say JOSH is doing the majority of the writing and heavy lifting on their collaborations which frees Prince, to act as his own business agent, manager, lawyer, accountant, publicist, copyright enforcer and whatnot. It's clear Prince trusts Josh with the musical end of his business much more than he trusts anyone else with his copyrights and finances. I get it. It's actually pretty ingenious on Prince's part. However... I don't like it, yet. Josh isn't baggin' out hit-level material or at least artistic and creative wins. To this point, we've gotten an updated equivalent of the same emperor-with-no-clothes, c-list material Prince was doing WITHOUT Josh.

I'm fine with Prince focusing on business, and letting someone else write him some hits. Josh just isn't getting the job done.

Again - where did you get that idea?

paulludvig said:

funksterr said:

Josh writes the melodies, too! Josh said in one of the now, too numerous to keep track of, interviews that he starts with the melodies first, and prince simply adds his guitar and vocals, usually without touching the rest of the track.

That is not what he said. He said he programmed the beats with the idea that they should lend themself to writing melodies. Here are some other quotes:

"It really is amazing to see him [Prince] work. When I have a beat ready that I think is funky, I‘ll send it to him, and then he’ll send it right back with vocals or a whole new arrangement for a crazy string section. Sometimes he’ll even come in and plug his guitar up right here by the soundboard and just lay something down while I’m staring at him! He’s just able to create so much. "

"Do you get several takes to choose from, or does Prince just present you with the final version?

Exactly that. He's saying, "Hey, sir, I've recorded these vocals. This is what you get."

But that gave me the opportunity to appreciate the genius of Prince. The harmonies, and where he sits on the beat, which notes he chooses, and the breaths he takes… I'm hearing all this stuff because I'm having to mix it and I can really say that he is a genius."

I'm not sorting through all those interviews to find the quote I remember, but what you posted is not the one. Nowhere in the quote you posted does it say Prince wrote melody, only harmonies, and added guitars, or an idea for a string section. Those things have nothing to do with writing the melody only accentuating it.

funksterr said:

paulludvig said:

That is not what he said. He said he programmed the beats with the idea that they should lend themself to writing melodies. Here are some other quotes:

"It really is amazing to see him [Prince] work. When I have a beat ready that I think is funky, I‘ll send it to him, and then he’ll send it right back with vocals or a whole new arrangement for a crazy string section. Sometimes he’ll even come in and plug his guitar up right here by the soundboard and just lay something down while I’m staring at him! He’s just able to create so much. "

"Do you get several takes to choose from, or does Prince just present you with the final version?

Exactly that. He's saying, "Hey, sir, I've recorded these vocals. This is what you get."

But that gave me the opportunity to appreciate the genius of Prince. The harmonies, and where he sits on the beat, which notes he chooses, and the breaths he takes… I'm hearing all this stuff because I'm having to mix it and I can really say that he is a genius."

I'm not sorting through all those interviews to find the quote I remember, but what you posted is not the one. Nowhere in the quote you posted does it say Prince wrote melody, only harmonies, and added guitars, or an idea for a string section. Those things have nothing to do with writing the melody only accentuating it.

I remember the quote you are referring to, and your interpretation is not correct.

[Edited 9/6/15 9:54am]

funksterr said:

Noodled24 said:

1) - some of the melodies, the example I think he cited was that he contributed the piano melody to Way Back Home. I don't think he spoke about the vocal melody.

2) How are you proposing Prince simply adds his vocal? if the melody has already been written by Josh?

3) Never was it said Prince "Usually never touches anything else"

4) Josh said Prince handed him a hard drive with loads of different vocals on it... That would lead me to believe these are songs Prince has finished. It would be bloody strange if he'd written the lyrics, and sang the vocals and just stopped. Infact 1000 Hugs and Kisses dates back to the 90s. So we don't even know if these are new songs or just stuff taken from the vault with Josh putting a new perspective on them.

I'm not sure why you are nitpicking my statements for examples of inconsistencies, in what we've been told. I don't think JOSH or Prince are lying when they say JOSH is doing the majority of the writing and heavy lifting on their collaborations which frees Prince, to act as his own business agent, manager, lawyer, accountant, publicist, copyright enforcer and whatnot.

Because you're making things up. It's NEVER been said that Josh has done the majority of anything. Nobody has said "This frees up Prince to be his own business agent"

It's clear Prince trusts Josh with the musical end of his business much more than he trusts anyone else with his copyrights and finances. I get it.

No. You don't, at all.

You know Prince is recording a 3rdEyeGirl album at the moment right? You're failing to see that Josh is one arm of what Prince is doing.

It's actually pretty ingenious on Prince's part. However... I don't like it, yet. Josh isn't baggin' out hit-level material or at least artistic and creative wins. To this point, we've gotten an updated equivalent of the same emperor-with-no-clothes, c-list material Prince was doing WITHOUT Josh.

I'm fine with Prince focusing on business, and letting someone else write him some hits. Josh just isn't getting the job done.

Really? Because you don't sound like you're fine with it.

paulludvig said:

funksterr said:

I'm not sure why you are nitpicking my statements for examples of inconsistencies, in what we've been told. I don't think JOSH or Prince are lying when they say JOSH is doing the majority of the writing and heavy lifting on their collaborations which frees Prince, to act as his own business agent, manager, lawyer, accountant, publicist, copyright enforcer and whatnot. It's clear Prince trusts Josh with the musical end of his business much more than he trusts anyone else with his copyrights and finances. I get it. It's actually pretty ingenious on Prince's part. However... I don't like it, yet. Josh isn't baggin' out hit-level material or at least artistic and creative wins. To this point, we've gotten an updated equivalent of the same emperor-with-no-clothes, c-list material Prince was doing WITHOUT Josh.

I'm fine with Prince focusing on business, and letting someone else write him some hits. Josh just isn't getting the job done.

Again - where did you get that idea?

If you read the interviews, without your FAM prejudices, it's all there.

Also you can hear it. As you can hear it in the majority of the programmed music Prince has released since Josh arrived in his inner circle. Josh is doing the majority of the work. Even for a lot of the arrangements you hear live. Again I'm fine with it if Josh starts making hits for Prince. Based on what I've heard so far, I don't think Josh can get the job done.

funksterr said:

paulludvig said:

Again - where did you get that idea?

If you read the interviews, without your FAM prejudices, it's all there.

Also you can hear it. As you can hear it in the majority of the programmed music Prince has released since Josh arrived in his inner circle. Josh is doing the majority of the work. Even for a lot of the arrangements you hear live. Again I'm fine with it if Josh starts making hits for Prince. Based on what I've heard so far, I don't think Josh can get the job done.

It's your interpretation.

Josh is responsible for the live arrangements?

[Edited 9/5/15 13:22pm]

[Edited 9/5/15 13:22pm]

funksterr said:

If you read the interviews, without your FAM prejudices, it's all there.

Also you can hear it. As you can hear it in the majority of the programmed music Prince has released since Josh arrived in his inner circle. Josh is doing the majority of the work. Even for a lot of the arrangements you hear live. Again I'm fine with it if Josh starts making hits for Prince. Based on what I've heard so far, I don't think Josh can get the job done.

There you go again. Completely made up.

Noodled24 said:

Because you're making things up. It's NEVER been said that Josh has done the majority of anything. Nobody has said "This frees up Prince to be his own business agent"

Prince himself has admitted on AOA where he doesn't play a single instrument.

Noodled24 said:

No. You don't, at all.

You know Prince is recording a 3rdEyeGirl album at the moment right? You're failing to see that Josh is one arm of what Prince is doing.

I never said Prince doesn't write or produce anything ever. But for his synth and drum machine based tracks specificaly, Josh seems to be doing 90% of those.

Funksterr said:

It's actually pretty ingenious on Prince's part. However... I don't like it, yet. Josh isn't baggin' out hit-level material or at least artistic and creative wins. To this point, we've gotten an updated equivalent of the same emperor-with-no-clothes, c-list material Prince was doing WITHOUT Josh.

I'm fine with Prince focusing on business, and letting someone else write him some hits. Josh just isn't getting the job done.

Noodled24 said:
Really? Because you don't sound like you're fine with it.

Actually you are not fine with it. Because you seem to be threatened by the idea that Prince is relying on someone else. I'm cool with it, if that person is delivering the goods. Josh, right now, to my ears is only as good as Joe-Average Pro-Tools producer. He is good, but not great, so I am not satisfied by what he is doing.

paulludvig said:

funksterr said:

If you read the interviews, without your FAM prejudices, it's all there.

Also you can hear it. As you can hear it in the majority of the programmed music Prince has released since Josh arrived in his inner circle. Josh is doing the majority of the work. Even for a lot of the arrangements you hear live. Again I'm fine with it if Josh starts making hits for Prince. Based on what I've heard so far, I don't think Josh can get the job done.

It's your interpretation.

Josh is responsible for the live arrangements?

[Edited 9/5/15 13:22pm]

[Edited 9/5/15 13:22pm]

He definitely has a hand in them. Rather it's Prince likeing what Josh has done in the studio, or Josh suggesting things to Prince, IDK. But from what I've heard, Josh's influence also extends to the stage.

funksterr said:

paulludvig said:

It's your interpretation.

Josh is responsible for the live arrangements?

[Edited 9/5/15 13:22pm]

[Edited 9/5/15 13:22pm]

He definitely has a hand in them. Rather it's Prince likeing what Josh has done in the studio, or Josh suggesting things to Prince, IDK. But from what I've heard, Josh's influence also extends to the stage.

From what you've heard?

paulludvig said:

funksterr said:

He definitely has a hand in them. Rather it's Prince likeing what Josh has done in the studio, or Josh suggesting things to Prince, IDK. But from what I've heard, Josh's influence also extends to the stage.

From what you've heard?

Sorry, if I've been a Prince fan long enough, to hear when the changes, when he plays the classics live.

funksterr said:

paulludvig said:

From what you've heard?

Sorry, if I've been a Prince fan long enough, to hear when the changes, when he plays the classics live.

Prince is not capable of changing his live arrangements himself?

KingSausage said:

fantasticjoy said:

funksterr said:

Noodled24 said:

Because you're making things up. It's NEVER been said that Josh has done the majority of anything. Nobody has said "This frees up Prince to be his own business agent"

Prince himself has admitted on AOA where he doesn't play a single instrument.

On 2 or 3 songs. Out of 10. That's not a majority. It's a minority. So when you kept saying "Josh does the majority" what you actually ment was "Josh does the minority" - Are you playing that game where everything you say you actually mean the opposite?

Noodled24 said:

No. You don't, at all.

You know Prince is recording a 3rdEyeGirl album at the moment right? You're failing to see that Josh is one arm of what Prince is doing.

I never said Prince doesn't write or produce anything ever. But for his synth and drum machine based tracks specificaly, Josh seems to be doing 90% of those.

Better.
So long as you accept that's nothing close to what you previously said. You're correct that you didn't say "Prince does nothing". However what you did say is that Josh is responsible for most of AOA. You have now backtracked somewhat to limit your statement to just the electronic sounding tracks, which is probably more accurate. But to that I say so what?

Funksterr said:

It's actually pretty ingenious on Prince's part. However... I don't like it, yet. Josh isn't baggin' out hit-level material or at least artistic and creative wins. To this point, we've gotten an updated equivalent of the same emperor-with-no-clothes, c-list material Prince was doing WITHOUT Josh.

I'm fine with Prince focusing on business, and letting someone else write him some hits. Josh just isn't getting the job done.

Noodled24 said:
Really? Because you don't sound like you're fine with it.

Actually you are not fine with it. Because you seem to be threatened by the idea that Prince is relying on someone else. I'm cool with it, if that person is delivering the goods. Josh, right now, to my ears is only as good as Joe-Average Pro-Tools producer. He is good, but not great, so I am not satisfied by what he is doing.

I think Josh is cool. Much like many people before him, Prince gives him projects to play with. ie "kiss". Josh/Hannah both seem into breakbeat/dubstep/Drum & Bass. Frankly I welcome it with open arms. Prince should have put out a Drum & Bass album years ago. The words "Prince, Drum, Bass" go together so well. Dubstep and Breakbeat lend themselves to more interesting drum patterns than much of what Prince has been doing in the studio minus a few blackwell solos.

The only difference as I see it. These days Prince isn't pretending he did everything himself. There was always an *Except where indicated. It's just more obvious these days.

Plus he's also recording with 3rdEyeGirl, Presumably also has at least one NPGQ album in the vault. He's also recorded with other artists... and I don't think I'm wrong in saying that there is literally no reason to believe all the songs Josh was given - "Prince" versions in some state(s) likely exist in more than a recorded vocal.

[Edited 9/5/15 14:10pm]

i love shelby j...chill

she's just doing her hype man duties...

let her live

RJOrion said:

i love shelby j...chill

she's just doing her hype man duties...

let her live

i love shelby too - and i dont care who knows it!

[Edited 9/5/15 14:49pm]

funksterr said:

Noodled24 said:

Because you're making things up. It's NEVER been said that Josh has done the majority of anything. Nobody has said "This frees up Prince to be his own business agent"

Prince himself has admitted on AOA where he doesn't play a single instrument.

On 2 or 3 songs. Out of 10. That's not a majority. It's a minority. So when you kept saying "Josh does the majority" what you actually ment was "Josh does the minority" - Are you playing that game where everything you say you actually mean the opposite?

Noodled24 said:

Better.
So long as you accept that's nothing close to what you previously said. You're correct that you didn't say "Prince does nothing". However what you did say is that Josh is responsible for most of AOA. You have now backtracked somewhat to limit your statement to just the electronic sounding tracks, which is probably more accurate. But to that I say so what?

Again.... I think you are nitpicking for no particular reason and looking to not only start a fight but declare yourself winner of something. I didn't backtrack on anything at all. Leaving 3rdeyegirl, tracks out of the conversation for a moment (which you brought up) and just the tracks released as "Prince", Josh is doing the majority of the work on those songs. Josh is writing the music, handling the mix, drum programming, performing the keys, etc. Prince is tweaking Josh's ideas as he sees fit, as an overseer, and adding vocals, or guitar parts, but that still leaves the big decisions in Josh's hands. That's why Josh is getting the publicity.

Noodled24 said:

I think Josh is cool. Much like many people before him, Prince gives him projects to play with. ie "kiss". Josh/Hannah both seem into breakbeat/dubstep/Drum & Bass. Frankly I welcome it with open arms. Prince should have put out a Drum & Bass album years ago. The words "Prince, Drum, Bass" go together so well. Dubstep and Breakbeat lend themselves to more interesting drum patterns than much of what Prince has been doing in the studio minus a few blackwell solos.

The only difference as I see it. These days Prince isn't pretending he did everything himself. There was always an *Except where indicated. It's just more obvious these days.

Plus he's also recording with 3rdEyeGirl, Presumably also has at least one NPGQ album in the vault. He's also recorded with other artists... and I don't think I'm wrong in saying that there is literally no reason to believe all the songs Josh was given - "Prince" versions in some state(s) likely exist in more than a recorded vocal.

I agree. Only Prince was always open about his team approach to making music. He would just mislabel the specifics of tracks sometimes.

As far as Prince giving Josh tracks to play with that is clearly true, as it is also clearly true that Josh originates a lot of suff and gives it to Prince. Either way the final result, specificaly the synth-based music, features Josh playing the majority of the roles needed to complete a song. And that's why Prince is letting him talk to the press.

Josh programs the beats, adds sound effects and some synths. Mostly to Prince's specifications. Sometimes he comes up with beats on his own and sends them to Prince. If Prince likes what he hears, Prince will create a song out of it.

funksterr said:

funksterr said:

Again.... I think you are nitpicking for no particular reason and looking to not only start a fight but declare yourself winner of something. I didn't backtrack on anything at all. Leaving 3rdeyegirl, tracks out of the conversation for a moment (which you brought up) and just the tracks released as "Prince", Josh is doing the majority of the work on those songs. Josh is writing the music, handling the mix, drum programming, performing the keys, etc. Prince is tweaking Josh's ideas as he sees fit, as an overseer, and adding vocals, or guitar parts, but that still leaves the big decisions in Josh's hands. That's why Josh is getting the publicity.

Noodled24 said:

I think Josh is cool. Much like many people before him, Prince gives him projects to play with. ie "kiss". Josh/Hannah both seem into breakbeat/dubstep/Drum & Bass. Frankly I welcome it with open arms. Prince should have put out a Drum & Bass album years ago. The words "Prince, Drum, Bass" go together so well. Dubstep and Breakbeat lend themselves to more interesting drum patterns than much of what Prince has been doing in the studio minus a few blackwell solos.

The only difference as I see it. These days Prince isn't pretending he did everything himself. There was always an *Except where indicated. It's just more obvious these days.

Plus he's also recording with 3rdEyeGirl, Presumably also has at least one NPGQ album in the vault. He's also recorded with other artists... and I don't think I'm wrong in saying that there is literally no reason to believe all the songs Josh was given - "Prince" versions in some state(s) likely exist in more than a recorded vocal.

I agree. Only Prince was always open about his team approach to making music. He would just mislabel the specifics of tracks sometimes.

As far as Prince giving Josh tracks to play with that is clearly true, as it is also clearly true that Josh originates a lot of suff and gives it to Prince. Either way the final result, specificaly the synth-based music, features Josh playing the majority of the roles needed to complete a song. And that's why Prince is letting him talk to the press.

funksterr said:

Noodled24 said:

Better.
So long as you accept that's nothing close to what you previously said. You're correct that you didn't say "Prince does nothing". However what you did say is that Josh is responsible for most of AOA. You have now backtracked somewhat to limit your statement to just the electronic sounding tracks, which is probably more accurate. But to that I say so what?

Again.... I think you are nitpicking for no particular reason and looking to not only start a fight but declare yourself winner of something. I didn't backtrack on anything at all.

The conversation is above.

Leaving 3rdeyegirl, tracks out of the conversation for a moment (which you brought up) and just the tracks released as "Prince", Josh is doing the majority of the work on those songs.

On AOA 2 or 3 songs were produced by Josh. Prince "didn't play an instrument"...

In interviews Josh has been pretty clear, he's given things to play with, sometimes there is some back a forth, other times Prince likes what he hears and contributes minimally or not at all.

Josh clearly brings the dubstep/drum&Bass "sound". Then again it's certainly plausible that Prince could take that influence/sound and work with it himself. Regardless since they began collaborating Prince's music has shown signs of life again.

Josh is writing the music, handling the mix, drum programming, performing the keys, etc. Prince is tweaking Josh's ideas as he sees fit, as an overseer, and adding vocals, or guitar parts, but that still leaves the big decisions in Josh's hands. That's why Josh is getting the publicity.

Prince has the final say. That's the only definite.

To me, given Prince's prolific nature and competitive spirit. It seems almost obvious he has "Prince" versions of everything he gave Josh. Far from taking a back seat to be the "lawyer" you suggested. Paisley Park has multiple studios.

[Edited 9/6/15 18:24pm]

have a seat!

terrig said:

RJOrion said:

i love shelby j...chill

she's just doing her hype man duties...

let her live

i love shelby too - and i dont care who knows it!

[Edited 9/5/15 14:49pm]

I still think it was a missed opportunity to make a group of Liv, Elisa & Shelby. At least an album of them doing something badass vocally. I have some recording of the three of them at shows and aftershows tearing it up. They just sounded so good together IMO.

KingSausage said:

fantasticjoy said:

What's so bad about Shelby?

Get your hands up! She oversings everything. Get your hands up!

haha, yes you are right!


Shelby J. is a big pain in the a**...

Noodled24 said:

Prince has the final say. That's the only definite.

To me, given Prince's prolific nature and competitive spirit. It seems almost obvious he has "Prince" versions of everything he gave Josh. Far from taking a back seat to be the "lawyer" you suggested. Paisley Park has multiple studios.

[Edited 9/6/15 18:24pm]

I think Prince changes things he is uncomfortable with, but the music itself is clearly not Prince. I doubt there are many "Prince" versions, of his collabs with Josh, because so many of them start with Beats By Josh. I agree that Josh has remixed the outtakes. Also in some cases Prince has given him half finished demos to work on. And all of what I just described is the same thing he did with Levi Seacer. The arrangement isn't as new as this press tour would have us believe. Josh is not the first time Prince has sized-up someone and said, "You are just as good as I am" and trusted an unknown producer with the entire musical side to his recording career. Levi was working on Prince albums and Associated Artists material, back in the day, Josh is doing it now. I remember when we, the fans on AOL back in the early 90's, were pleading for Prince, to please get back to writing and producing his own music!

I must admit, I fall behind with whats happening in the world of Prince, so I didn't have a clue who this Joshua guy was, where he came from, what he does etc, other than he co-produced the last Prince album.

However, after seeing the pictures of him on this thread, I can only conclude that he wishes to be seen as a generic knobhead for some reason. Job done I reckon.

[Edited 9/7/15 6:56am]

[Edited 9/7/15 6:56am]

TheSkinMechanic said:

I must admit, I fall behind with whats happening in the world of Prince, so I didn't have a clue who this Joshua guy was, where he came from, what he does etc, other than he co-produced the last Prince album.

However, after seeing the pictures of him on this thread, I can only conclude that he wishes to be seen as a generic knobhead for some reason. Job done I reckon.

funksterr said:

Noodled24 said:

I think Prince changes things he is uncomfortable with, but the music itself is clearly not Prince. I doubt there are many "Prince" versions, of his collabs with Josh, because so many of them start with Beats By Josh.

Doubt what you want. Josh has already said "Prince gave me a hard disk" - it had all the vocals. You can't record a vocal for a song that doesn't exist yet.

You seem to think that for some unspecified reason Prince has stopped recording and delivered to Josh a hard disk of songs that don't exist?

I agree that Josh has remixed the outtakes. Also in some cases Prince has given him half finished demos to work on. And all of what I just described is the same thing he did with Levi Seacer. The arrangement isn't as new as this press tour would have us believe. Josh is not the first time Prince has sized-up someone and said, "You are just as good as I am" and trusted an unknown producer with the entire musical side to his recording career. Levi was working on Prince albums and Associated Artists material, back in the day, Josh is doing it now. I remember when we, the fans on AOL back in the early 90's, were pleading for Prince, to please get back to writing and producing his own music!

Yawn.

[Edited 9/7/15 8:04am]

Noodled24 said: