Just off reading an article on Janet Jackson not garnering much traction with her latest effort. They're hoping things will heat up once she goes on tour and releases the album.

It strikes me that Janet Jackson and Madonna can only afford so many commercial failures. If one album doesn't sell decently, they have to wait. It's not like they can release a clearly uncommercial piano album or something jazzy, or take up a power rock trio. People are not expecting them to be musicians, they're expecting them to be pop stars.

Lady Gaga had the right idea when she did her duet album with Tony Bennet, she's trying to have it both ways just as Prince did and does. Sure, it was extremely commercial to team up with Tony, but it sends the right message: sure I'm a pop star, but never forget I'm a musician first.

This why in the end, I think Prince will be even more admired than he is today. He bypassed a whole industry establishment to do his thing. You can argue about the quality of his output, but you can't deny what he was up against when he got any praise for any of his stuff after the promotional machine died and he rode solely on his reputation.

I guess that really depends.
I mean your are dealing with 3 (super)stars Madonna & Prince moreso
I don't think Prince can actually afford many commercial failures either.
He was lucky to have a very strong foundation from 1978-1989 that everything rests on.

Most of the albums after WB how many people even know about much less fans have easy access too

1 or 2 things Madonna and Janet have going for them is access to their back catalogue of albums concerts and videos

I think the public is looking forward to a Janet album more than Prince or Madonna, probably because she's been out of the limelight for quite a while.

Madonna is trying to be what she's not, and that is where she fails and is now becoming a sort of joke... tarnishing her legacy.

Nowadays, sales don't matter in the internet age, especially when you can listen to Janet's no sleep on youtube for free. I think it's a nice song, and she isn't trying to fit in with the trends which I can truly respect. Im thinking about the tour more than anything. I love Janet and no sleep is such a cool laid back song, I'm excited for the up tempo tracks too.

Prince does not have to pull stunts to be relevant nor do I think he's trying to be. These people are trying to make a "comeback" and Prince isn't coming back to anything. He's just a genius musician doing what he loves. and I'm really feeling HardrockLover!

[Edited 7/14/15 16:54pm]

darlinglolita said:

Madonna is trying to be what she's not, and that is where she fails and is now becoming a sort of joke... tarnishing her legacy.

Nowadays, sales don't matter in the internet age, especially when you can listen to Janet's no sleep on youtube for free. I think it's a nice song, and she isn't trying to fit in with the trends which I can truly respect. Im thinking about the tour more than anything. I love Janet and no sleep is such a cool laid back song, I'm excited for the up tempo tracks too.

Prince does not have to pull stunts to be relevant nor do I think he's trying to be. These people are trying to make a "comeback" and Prince isn't coming back to anything. He's just a genius musician doing what he loves. and I'm really feeling HardrockLover!

[Edited 7/14/15 16:54pm]

I truly believe Prince does pull all kinds of stunts to be relevant. And he definately wants to be (the whole I only want to work with young people thing?)
Prince was huge in the spotlight, he likes it.
That is why he cried during the Musicology period at the fans outpour.

Interesting post, and you're spot on about how Janet and Madonna are considered pop stars and expected to succeed huge with every release, whereas Prince is looked at as more as a musician (because, let's be honest, none of the two pop starlets would release a religious jazz album or a piano album).

It's too early to know if Janet's project will tank. As far as I know, 'Discipline' had pretty mediocre sales in the US (446K by the end, I believe). Maybe this project will succeed. As for Madonna, I'm surprised her singles are tanking, but if you really think about it today's commercial market won't give older folks any sort of radio play. As I said in the Janet thread over at MNP, Prince'll be releasing 1-off singles with shoddy promotion for the rest of his life, most likely

Either way, all three have nothing to prove. They're huge pop legends and three of the best-selling artists of all time (Madonna a little moreso, but that's obvious.) This isn't directed at the OP btw, I just happen to see a lot of people mourn over chart positions lol.

OldFriends4Sale said:

darlinglolita said:

Madonna is trying to be what she's not, and that is where she fails and is now becoming a sort of joke... tarnishing her legacy.

Nowadays, sales don't matter in the internet age, especially when you can listen to Janet's no sleep on youtube for free. I think it's a nice song, and she isn't trying to fit in with the trends which I can truly respect. Im thinking about the tour more than anything. I love Janet and no sleep is such a cool laid back song, I'm excited for the up tempo tracks too.

Prince does not have to pull stunts to be relevant nor do I think he's trying to be. These people are trying to make a "comeback" and Prince isn't coming back to anything. He's just a genius musician doing what he loves. and I'm really feeling HardrockLover!

[Edited 7/14/15 16:54pm]

I truly believe Prince does pull all kinds of stunts to be relevant. And he definately wants to be (the whole I only want to work with young people thing?)
Prince was huge in the spotlight, he likes it.
That is why he cried during the Musicology period at the fans outpour.

? He cried during a concert?

OldFriends4Sale said:

I guess that really depends.
I mean your are dealing with 3 (super)stars Madonna & Prince moreso
I don't think Prince can actually afford many commercial failures either.
He was lucky to have a very strong foundation from 1978-1989 that everything rests on.

Most of the albums after WB how many people even know about much less fans have easy access too

1 or 2 things Madonna and Janet have going for them is access to their back catalogue of albums concerts and videos

agreed. this is one thing Prince REALLY needs to do

[Edited 7/14/15 17:16pm]

I would like to say... I really enjoy reading all your analytical views and thoughts. Thank you!

My order of interest are

1. Prince

2. Janet

3. Tina Dico... (just threw that in)

Madonna bores me to tears, even her concert (one, because I could never bring myself to watch her again), but credit to her and to all... They are all still here doing their thing.

CharismaDove said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I truly believe Prince does pull all kinds of stunts to be relevant. And he definately wants to be (the whole I only want to work with young people thing?)
Prince was huge in the spotlight, he likes it.
That is why he cried during the Musicology period at the fans outpour.

? He cried during a concert?

yes

I have a photo of the moment it happened

CharismaDove said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I truly believe Prince does pull all kinds of stunts to be relevant. And he definately wants to be (the whole I only want to work with young people thing?)
Prince was huge in the spotlight, he likes it.
That is why he cried during the Musicology period at the fans outpour.

? He cried during a concert?

EyeHatechu said:

CharismaDove said:

? He cried during a concert?

Didnt he cry after performing Little Red Corvette? I saw it on video. That was such a sweet and natural moment I darn near cried.

He got a bit teary due to the warm reception. Not sure what that proves -- that we won't sell his soul to the devil of commerce and whore himself to the masses doesn't mean he's indifferent to his public at his live shows.

In my view, because Prince turned left so many times instead of doing the more commercially obvious move, his brand is by now practically immune to a lack of commercial traction, whereas Janet Madonna and many others would see their brand collapse if they had commercial flops too many times in a row,

That's because he long ago decided not to be a pure pop star. He can rely on his music credentials, release specialized music not intended to seduce a whole mass market. Most pop stars can't do that.

Well, he's doing better than Michael at least.

Aerogram said:

EyeHatechu said:

Didnt he cry after performing Little Red Corvette? I saw it on video. That was such a sweet and natural moment I darn near cried.

He got a bit teary due to the warm reception. Not sure what that proves -- that we won't sell his soul to the devil of commerce and whore himself to the masses doesn't mean he's indifferent to his public at his live shows.

In my view, because Prince turned left so many times instead of doing the more commercially obvious move, his brand is by now practically immune to a lack of commercial traction, whereas Janet Madonna and many others would see their brand collapse if they had commercial flops too many times in a row,

That's because he long ago decided not to be a pure pop star. He can rely on his music credentials, release specialized music not intended to seduce a whole mass market. Most pop stars can't do that.

but doesn't that make his brand more about being a live performer

instead of being known for his output? We can access Janet & Madonna video concerts videos albums and even off show performances. But with Prince you come up to an invisible wall.
How quickly can Prince fall out of music culture if he disappeared for a while? Fan's have to go underground to get his music videos etc and other people cannot find him out there.

I think his control issues will and is biting him in that area.

OldFriends4Sale said:

darlinglolita said:

Madonna is trying to be what she's not, and that is where she fails and is now becoming a sort of joke... tarnishing her legacy.

Nowadays, sales don't matter in the internet age, especially when you can listen to Janet's no sleep on youtube for free. I think it's a nice song, and she isn't trying to fit in with the trends which I can truly respect. Im thinking about the tour more than anything. I love Janet and no sleep is such a cool laid back song, I'm excited for the up tempo tracks too.

Prince does not have to pull stunts to be relevant nor do I think he's trying to be. These people are trying to make a "comeback" and Prince isn't coming back to anything. He's just a genius musician doing what he loves. and I'm really feeling HardrockLover!

[Edited 7/14/15 16:54pm]

I truly believe Prince does pull all kinds of stunts to be relevant. And he definately wants to be (the whole I only want to work with young people thing?)
Prince was huge in the spotlight, he likes it.
That is why he cried during the Musicology period at the fans outpour.

I agree, but if Prince ever has to chose between limelight and freedom he consistently choses the latter, which differentiates him from just about everyone.. to the point that he's consistently criticized, because most people don't understand that level of rebelliousness towards being "controlled" by any sort of hierarchy.

I don't believe the comparison between Prince and Janet, Madonna (or MJ) is nor has ever been relevant. Janet and Madonna are artists I absolutely love but they've always been sales-focused and depending of producer assistance, releasing an album every 2-4 years and adjusting to whatever style was popular at the time in order to boost sales. Prince on the other hand is an overprolific, self-sufficient artist who has always favored personal artistic choices over sales figures (often at the expense of sales, precisely). Prince's huge popular success was almost an anomaly in a way: he's always been more of an independent, semi-experimental artist in spirit.

So my point is that Madonna and JJ just don't do the same thing Prince does, never have never will.

Overall we are talking about 3 people who are multimillionaires and have amassed huge critical acclaim over the years while doing whatever the fuck they wanted to do. I don't think any of them is "doing better". However I have the feeling that Madonna and JJ's strategy to mimic current trends to achieve commercial success has reached its limit from a purely creative POV, in a way they were better releasing more personal works such as The Velvet Rope or Ray Of Light than trying to emulate the likes of Beyoncé or Gaga. Prince's current work can please or displease but at least he's not chasing the Top 10 anymore and I think that's wise.

[Edited 7/15/15 7:22am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

I guess that really depends.
I mean your are dealing with 3 (super)stars Madonna & Prince moreso
I don't think Prince can actually afford many commercial failures either.
He was lucky to have a very strong foundation from 1978-1989 that everything rests on.

Most of the albums after WB how many people even know about much less fans have easy access too

1 or 2 things Madonna and Janet have going for them is access to their back catalogue of albums concerts and videos

Most great artists are lucky to have a strong musical foundation...Stevie is lucky....Paul Mac is lucky....Hell, Mariah Carey is lucky....But I think the OP is on to something. Prince is no longer boxed in by the trappings of being a pop star. To me he's much like Bruce Springsteen: acts that are not judged by no. 1 hits or radio airplay at this point in their careers. When you are judged purely as a pop star though it's much harder to pull off....

murph said:

SoulAlive said:

She has nothing to prove.

Then maybe she should stop trying so hard by still aligning herself with whatever slutty pop/rap trick is on the charts when she puts out a new project.

She shouldn't have anything to prove, but stupid shit like 'Bitch, I'm Madonna' says otherwise.

She really seems desperate to prove she's still young, relevant & shocking.

murph said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I guess that really depends.
I mean your are dealing with 3 (super)stars Madonna & Prince moreso
I don't think Prince can actually afford many commercial failures either.
He was lucky to have a very strong foundation from 1978-1989 that everything rests on.

Most of the albums after WB how many people even know about much less fans have easy access too

1 or 2 things Madonna and Janet have going for them is access to their back catalogue of albums concerts and videos

Most great artists are lucky to have a strong musical foundation...Stevie is lucky....Paul Mac is lucky....Hell, Mariah Carey is lucky....But I think the OP is on to something. Prince is no longer boxed in by the trappings of being a pop star. To me he's much like Bruce Springsteen: acts that are not judged by no. 1 hits or radio airplay at this point in their careers. When you are judged purely as a pop star though it's much harder to pull off....

I agree. But technically none of them are boxed in. Once you are past a certain number of years and from the time period they became superstars. You really can do whatever you want. Prince & Madonna are multimillionaires who don't need money to live.

.

Madonna and Janet are also (movie/tv) friendly...
Janet's career is a lot different than Prince and Madonna's, I suspect if Michael was alive he would be in the place of Janet. It was never Bruce Prince Madonna Janet, but Bruce Prince Madonna Michael
.
They both can do all kinds of things and take chances, that a lot of newer artists cannot.

.

Tina Turner can pop out of Switzerland and do all kinds of things for a year and then go back and hide/rest/have fun. Same with a lot of huge pop/super stars.

Janet has the Jackson name. There is so much she can do that isn't about making money, but generating excitement. I don't think she is lacking for money either.
I still think that Prince needs the spotlight, popularity etc more than a lot of fans want to realize.

VelvetKittyKat said:

SoulAlive said:

She has nothing to prove.

Then maybe she should stop trying so hard by still aligning herself with whatever slutty pop/rap trick is on the charts when she puts out a new project.

She shouldn't have anything to prove, but stupid shit like 'Bitch, I'm Madonna' says otherwise.

She really seems desperate to prove she's still young, relevant & shocking.

I don't think she is trying hard.
Is that all something recently done on the last 2 albums?
Look at all the 18-25 yr old chicks Prince aligned himself too for his last album.

.

Everybody Loves Me (20Ten) and (There'll Never B) Another Like Me (MPLSound) are the same drive as Bitch, I'm Madonna...

.

My Name Is Prince

"I don't have time for old people," he said. "I want to work with young people. I have my legacy. It's time for their legacy. They're a Minneapolis band, too."

.

Prince feels he has something Prove, and 3rd Eye Girl isn't it.

I think Madonna is just doing what she always had.

If I could charge a hundred bucks a ticket for a 4 thousand seat room, do the math? He is in the money for life.

That's why he can easily afford the vault being put out for free.

OldFriends4Sale said:

VelvetKittyKat said:

Then maybe she should stop trying so hard by still aligning herself with whatever slutty pop/rap trick is on the charts when she puts out a new project.

She shouldn't have anything to prove, but stupid shit like 'Bitch, I'm Madonna' says otherwise.

She really seems desperate to prove she's still young, relevant & shocking.

I don't think she is trying hard.
Is that all something recently done on the last 2 albums?
Look at all the 18-25 yr old chicks Prince aligned himself too for his last album.

.

Everybody Loves Me (20Ten) and (There'll Never B) Another Like Me (MPLSound) are the same drive as Bitch, I'm Madonna...

.

My Name Is Prince

"I don't have time for old people," he said. "I want to work with young people. I have my legacy. It's time for their legacy. They're a Minneapolis band, too."

.

Prince feels he has something Prove, and 3rd Eye Girl isn't it.

I think Madonna is just doing what she always had.

That's his pop star side and sometimes it's a huge miss, other times he reaches that perfect state of grace when it's all balanced -- pop starrish but musically worthy. He can afford to put a song out like Baltimore and still get good press even though it's not selling like hot cakes. He has what is called prestige and basically only some of us here at the Org still expect him to burst into the charts like it's 1983. The press treats him like some kind of pop Miles Davis, that's an enviable spot.

OldFriends4Sale said:

VelvetKittyKat said:

Then maybe she should stop trying so hard by still aligning herself with whatever slutty pop/rap trick is on the charts when she puts out a new project.

She shouldn't have anything to prove, but stupid shit like 'Bitch, I'm Madonna' says otherwise.

She really seems desperate to prove she's still young, relevant & shocking.

I don't think she is trying hard.
Is that all something recently done on the last 2 albums?
Look at all the 18-25 yr old chicks Prince aligned himself too for his last album.

.

Everybody Loves Me (20Ten) and (There'll Never B) Another Like Me (MPLSound) are the same drive as Bitch, I'm Madonna...

.

My Name Is Prince

"I don't have time for old people," he said. "I want to work with young people. I have my legacy. It's time for their legacy. They're a Minneapolis band, too."

.

Prince feels he has something Prove, and 3rd Eye Girl isn't it.

I think Madonna is just doing what she always had.

I certainly never said Prince isn't trying to prove something. Besides, just because Prince does it, doesn't mean Madonna DOESN'T do it and it certainly doesn't make it the right thing to do.

VelvetKittyKat said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't think she is trying hard.
Is that all something recently done on the last 2 albums?
Look at all the 18-25 yr old chicks Prince aligned himself too for his last album.

.

Everybody Loves Me (20Ten) and (There'll Never B) Another Like Me (MPLSound) are the same drive as Bitch, I'm Madonna...

.

My Name Is Prince

"I don't have time for old people," he said. "I want to work with young people. I have my legacy. It's time for their legacy. They're a Minneapolis band, too."

.

Prince feels he has something Prove, and 3rd Eye Girl isn't it.

I think Madonna is just doing what she always had.

I certainly never said Prince isn't trying to prove something. Besides, just because Prince does it, doesn't mean Madonna DOESN'T do it and it certainly doesn't make it the right thing to do.

Write or wrong it's their lives and careers and both will die millionaires
I never said she DIDN'T do it, I said she is just doing what she always has done

She has done acting, films, books and other things, they both take chances with things

they won't suffer for it.

I still think JJ isn't in this same catagory.

Aerogram said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't think she is trying hard.
Is that all something recently done on the last 2 albums?
Look at all the 18-25 yr old chicks Prince aligned himself too for his last album.

.

Everybody Loves Me (20Ten) and (There'll Never B) Another Like Me (MPLSound) are the same drive as Bitch, I'm Madonna...

.

My Name Is Prince

"I don't have time for old people," he said. "I want to work with young people. I have my legacy. It's time for their legacy. They're a Minneapolis band, too."

.

Prince feels he has something Prove, and 3rd Eye Girl isn't it.

I think Madonna is just doing what she always had.

That's his pop star side and sometimes it's a huge miss, other times he reaches that perfect state of grace when it's all balanced -- pop starrish but musically worthy. He can afford to put a song out like Baltimore and still get good press even though it's not selling like hot cakes. He has what is called prestige and basically only some of us here at the Org still expect him to burst into the charts like it's 1983. The press treats him like some kind of pop Miles Davis, that's an enviable spot.

Yes it is an enviable spot

who cares..theyre all fine