For example, Delirious. Was Prince trying to appeal to certain segments of society with this style of music, or was he simply embracing his musical influences/interests?

I think he was embracing his musical interests/influences as you said.
Now with the whole rap thing, that was when he was trying to appeal to certain parts of society.



On an unrelated note: Damn, Anji, you'll NEVER run otta interesting topics, will you?

lovebizzare said:

Which musical influences would they be? Elvis Presley??

I'm curious why Prince, reportedly influenced by the likes of Sly Stone, James Brown and George Clinton, decided to bring this 'rock-a-billy' influence/interest into his music at that time. Any ideas?

Turn It Up is another example.

lovebizzare said:

I had never even thought of this theory before I visited the org and heard Mistermaxxx's take on it. It certainly makes sense, unfortunately.

Anji said:

Elvis, beatles, rolling stones, hendrix, zepplin--he's named all of these as influences
plus remember dez was in the band around that time, and he has been described as a "serious rocker", and well, andre was really into the rock stuff and he obviously had an influnece on Prince. I think it was more of what the people around him were into/listing to, such as dez and andre

Anji said:

yeah, it's not so much him doing rap, it's the fact that he tried to be commercial, he tried to appeal to as many people as he possibly could, he was following the crowd. That's why his rap stuff is my least my favorite, and most of his rap stuff took place during the 90s, I think that's why, as rd ut it, the "true fans" aren't really that crazy about 90s Prince
[This message was edited Sat Mar 22 21:38:28 PST 2003 by lovebizzare]

Taken from the 'Has Prince lost that funk forever?' thread, Anji said...I've always found this something of a contradiction. At one point in time, Prince openly criticises the rap movement e.g. Dead On It, but then less than a couple of years later, he's embracing it. Was that the influence of the Game Boyz, in a similar fashion to how Dez/Andre brought their influences into the mix, or was something happening before their time? Something's not quite right with this picture.

Anji said:

Actually, "Turn it Up" sounds more like New Wave, if anything. Take it from me, I know.

NWF said:

it does indeed. now "broken", on the other hand...

lovebizzare said:

Could it not be argued that his 'rock-a-billy' influenced songs, such as Delirious, were used for exactly the same reasons? To appeal to as many people as he possibly could?

No Call U is another example.

.
[This message was edited Sat Mar 22 21:56:04 PST 2003 by Anji]

Anji said:

Well, nothing ever is when it invovles Prince.
Anyway, I belive that the reason he started dooing rap was t become a popualar, commercial success again. I don't think anyone influenced him. He tried doing it his way, and after Purple Rain, his way didn't quite work anymore. So in an attempt to become popular again he did the whole rap thing, since that was what was considered 'hot', which happened to be rap. So he got the rappers into the mix and, to me, his musical beliefs took a backseat to being hip. As I've stated many time, overall the 90s was a nightmare for Prince (i.e. the whole rap thing, mayte, the loss of his child, the 'slave' thing, the 'battle' with Warners,ect.)

Anji said:

hmm... (he did write "purple rain" to appeal to more people)
anyway, maybe he got tired of being an underground artist, but at least he never spoke out against rock, like he did with rap.
And unlike rap, he didn't use "rock-a-bility" on every damn song

Anji said:

AND with the rock stuff, atleast it was unique, not following the crowd unlike the rap stuff.
But he also did new wave and punk, rock wasn't hisonly style.

"Wet Dream Cousin,Delerious,Horny Toad,Let's Go Crazy,etc.. fall into the Rock-A-Billy Mode of Little Richard,Bo Diddley,Chuck Berry&elements of Louis Jordan among others.Elvis did play a Big part on Prince.it was part of His Musical Sponge Up-Bringing.it served it's purpose with Prince.Prince is a Sponge of Pop Culture,Style&Sounds period.

mistermaxxx said:

I understand that there will be conflicting views as to why Prince started using rap heavily in his music, but is it possible he learnt to enjoy that style of music during the 90s? I think he probably did, and for reasons beyond commercial viability. He is a musician, afterall.

mistermaxxx said:

With such a wealth of 'rock-a-billy' influences, and artists that mastered this style before Prince, how could it possibly be argued that what Prince brought to the table with his 'rock-a-billy' songs, was unique? A similar argument can be applied to his use of rock.

Anji said:

Prince actualy started using Hip-Hop on His Stuff with the Black Album.He started Rapping with Shelia E. back in 85 on "Holly Rock" but He just wasn't convincing IMHO with the Style.Prince really tried hard with Rap&New Jack Swing to make Himself fit in.

lovebizzare said:

Prince's use of rap in the 90's was not as widespread as you suggest, kiki.

Anji said:

true, sometimes I get a little carried away.
anyway, there's just something with the whole rap thing that doesn't sit right with me

mistermaxxx said:

Did Prince convince you with his style of rap on Irresistible Bitch?

Anji said:

hmm..., I never thought of that as being rap

Anji said:

it made Prince more Interesting in that He could try different things&elements but also factor that Prince took on the Artist in that Vein&Style.Prince truly knew how to Manipulate Styles&Image together.Very David Bowie-ish of Him.timing of the 80's did Wonders for Prince among other Artists.

mistermaxxx said:

the 80s di wonders for pop culture, period.

Could it not be argued that Prince has always used his diversity of musical influences, whether it be rock-a-billy, funk, soul, rap or R'n'B, to appeal to as many people as possible?

Was the 90's Prince simply considered to be 'following the crowd' because he was less commercially successful than the new generation of producers? For example, R. Kelly and Dr. Dre. And why were/are they more successful? An important point to bear in mind, is that there's an entire culture that Prince failed to resonate with but for reasons beyond his ability to innovate beats in those genres of music.

Anji said:

I don't think that's necessarily true. Most don't realize it, but there's a long list of Prince song samples in many hip hop songs for years now. I can't find the list at the moment, but it's been posted here before.

He was considered to be following the crowd because his rap came across as forced. He was clearly out of his element. Genius has its limits.

Supernova said:

Fair point. When I said culture, I was referring to the audiences that buy hip-hop, not the artists themselves.