CandaceS said:

databank said:

I think this is why P is blocking everything from happening, because he still sees himself as a "slave". The only thing P got outta the deal is legal ownership of the masters under exclusive, compulsary licence to WB. This means he makes a lot more money on sales but he technically has no more control over rerelease that before, in the sense that he still has to go thru WB and negociate with them regarding content, promotion, etc.

That's insane.So,let me ask....what exactly can Prince do to get total,complete,100% control over his catalog? I thought that having ownership of the master recordings would give him exactly that.

SoulAlive said:

databank said:

I think this is why P is blocking everything from happening, because he still sees himself as a "slave". The only thing P got outta the deal is legal ownership of the masters under exclusive, compulsary licence to WB. This means he makes a lot more money on sales but he technically has no more control over rerelease that before, in the sense that he still has to go thru WB and negociate with them regarding content, promotion, etc.

That's insane.So,let me ask....what exactly can Prince do to get total,complete,100% control over his catalog? I thought that having ownership of the master recordings would give him exactly that.

No, it didn't, he still needs to get free from the exclusive licencing deal he has with WB. This deal basically changes NOTHING except the percentage on sales P gets.

wow

databank said:

No, it didn't, he still needs to get free from the exclusive licencing deal he has with WB. This deal basically changes NOTHING except the percentage on sales P gets.

.

Why would he still need to get free from the exclusive licencing deal he has with WB?

I mean: WB would pay him less if he were to leave after that deal.

.

Would other parties offer him significantly more?

udo said:

databank said:

No, it didn't, he still needs to get free from the exclusive licencing deal he has with WB. This deal basically changes NOTHING except the percentage on sales P gets.

.

Why would he still need to get free from the exclusive licencing deal he has with WB?

I mean: WB would pay him less if he were to leave after that deal.

.

Would other parties offer him significantly more?

I don't understand what u mean by "WB would pay him less", WB doesn't "pay" him anything anymore, nor would any other label. Prince is now the producer of the old masters as well as new recordings, and as such he gets the big share of the sales, while WB gets a small share for distribution. Any other label would get more or less the same small share, depending of negociations, but they are not required to "pay" Prince in the sense that he isn't an "employee" of a label anymore. Prince can still negociate an advance from a label but in the end the advance has to be repaid on sales and basically he is paying himself, that's what happened ever since Emancipation.

.

But regardless of money I think it's more a matter of principle: the licencing deal was a counterpart for the return of the masters, so knowing P as we know him he must be pissed because he's still not free to do what he wants, he gets more money but he still has to deal with WB and comply to some of their demands. Even moneywise there's a loss: he gets more money on each sale but he can't sell the albums on his own website without givin WB a share, not negociate a better deal on an album per album basis with any label he wishes. He also still has to go through WB for iTunes or Amazon, while he could actually get all of the money by dealing directly with those sites, and negociate with a label for physical distribution only.

databank said:

udo said:

.

Why would he still need to get free from the exclusive licencing deal he has with WB?

I mean: WB would pay him less if he were to leave after that deal.

.

Would other parties offer him significantly more?

I don't understand what u mean by "WB would pay him less"

.

IF we assume that WB has some rights over P then it could be that they work out a remaster deal as an end to this WB rights thing.

After release of the remaster P could be fully on his own.

In such case the payment could differ from a 'just remasters' deal.

databank said:

I don't understand what u mean by "WB would pay him less", WB doesn't "pay" him anything anymore, nor would any other label. Prince is now the producer of the old masters as well as new recordings, and as such he gets the big share of the sales, while WB gets a small share for distribution. Any other label would get more or less the same small share, depending of negociations, but they are not required to "pay" Prince in the sense that he isn't an "employee" of a label anymore. Prince can still negociate an advance from a label but in the end the advance has to be repaid on sales and basically he is paying himself, that's what happened ever since Emancipation.

.

But regardless of money I think it's more a matter of principle: the licencing deal was a counterpart for the return of the masters, so knowing P as we know him he must be pissed because he's still not free to do what he wants, he gets more money but he still has to deal with WB and comply to some of their demands. Even moneywise there's a loss: he gets more money on each sale but he can't sell the albums on his own website without givin WB a share, not negociate a better deal on an album per album basis with any label he wishes. He also still has to go through WB for iTunes or Amazon, while he could actually get all of the money by dealing directly with those sites, and negociate with a label for physical distribution only.

But how does this work with PE and AOA, will Prince now have to wait 35 years to get the masters back for those two records?

And if so, why would he have given them to Warners? While instead (forgetting the Crystal Ball fiasco), he could have made them available through a website of his own, perhaps only digitally?

udo said:

databank said:

I don't understand what u mean by "WB would pay him less"

.

IF we assume that WB has some rights over P then it could be that they work out a remaster deal as an end to this WB rights thing.

After release of the remaster P could be fully on his own.

In such case the payment could differ from a 'just remasters' deal.

The issue is we don't whether the 2014 deal is "one rerelease and it's yours" or "it's ours for XXX years no matter what".

Pentacle said:

databank said:

I don't understand what u mean by "WB would pay him less", WB doesn't "pay" him anything anymore, nor would any other label. Prince is now the producer of the old masters as well as new recordings, and as such he gets the big share of the sales, while WB gets a small share for distribution. Any other label would get more or less the same small share, depending of negociations, but they are not required to "pay" Prince in the sense that he isn't an "employee" of a label anymore. Prince can still negociate an advance from a label but in the end the advance has to be repaid on sales and basically he is paying himself, that's what happened ever since Emancipation.

.

But regardless of money I think it's more a matter of principle: the licencing deal was a counterpart for the return of the masters, so knowing P as we know him he must be pissed because he's still not free to do what he wants, he gets more money but he still has to deal with WB and comply to some of their demands. Even moneywise there's a loss: he gets more money on each sale but he can't sell the albums on his own website without givin WB a share, not negociate a better deal on an album per album basis with any label he wishes. He also still has to go through WB for iTunes or Amazon, while he could actually get all of the money by dealing directly with those sites, and negociate with a label for physical distribution only.

But how does this work with PE and AOA, will Prince now have to wait 35 years to get the masters back for those two records?

And if so, why would he have given them to Warners? While instead (forgetting the Crystal Ball fiasco), he could have made them available through a website of his own, perhaps only digitally?

WB never owned the masters for those 2 albums.

databank said:

Pentacle said:

But how does this work with PE and AOA, will Prince now have to wait 35 years to get the masters back for those two records?

And if so, why would he have given them to Warners? While instead (forgetting the Crystal Ball fiasco), he could have made them available through a website of his own, perhaps only digitally?

WB never owned the masters for those 2 albums.

So Prince just threw them in for WB to distribute? Doesn't really sound like equal partners... and we've seen the consequences.

Pentacle said:

databank said:

WB never owned the masters for those 2 albums.

So Prince just threw them in for WB to distribute? Doesn't really sound like equal partners... and we've seen the consequences.

Prince didn't want an equal partner. WB played his obsession against him and won. As distributor, they do not pick up the marketing or production costs. Any failure of the albums is completely down to the artist. Prince has no one to blame but himself.

Pentacle said:

databank said:

WB never owned the masters for those 2 albums.

So Prince just threw them in for WB to distribute? Doesn't really sound like equal partners... and we've seen the consequences.

This is what Prince has been doing with every release starting with Emancipation, I don't see why it would or should have been different in this specific case.

This is also what big artists are doing more and more (Madonna, Lenny) with "new generation" labels such as Kobalt or LiveNation.