BartVanHemelen said:

Noodled24 said:

It's great that there are so many interviews, samples from album tracks? Pretty sure that was an alternate "Daddy Pop"?

Despite the name, I think there was a LOT of great info - certainly things I've never heard and from people who've been there - THOUSANDS of songs in the vault. It'd take years to go through them.

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I wonder about that. Because what songs is Susan Rogers talking about? Things that already have leaked, e.g. Moonbeam Levels. If "the vault was nearly full" when she left, how come Uptown's research hasn't really unearthed that many new songs?

Well she gave an impression of what "Wally" may have sounded like. From the mouths of many we've heard how he recorded a lot, and often.

I couldn't answer that. Has anyone asked her to recite the names of as many songs as she can?... she said that Prince kept songs like "moonbeam levels" in his "current playlist" for a while but without access to the vault itself or Susans database - Research can only go so far.

Paisley Park has been on lockdown since the mid 90s in terms of boots/info. Sonny & Michael have said only a portion of what they recorded was actually ever released. Even back then he was able to record The Undertaker in seemingly one take. The mind boggles...

Look at http://www.princevault.co...ased_Songs : approx. 400 titles, yet many of them we have heard already. I really wish all those musicians and technicians had paid more attention and taken notes and had shared the information, because now we're still mostly relying on the research Uptown stopped doing over a decade ago, and I don't think we've seen any unexpected discoveries from that era since then.

Agreed.

BartVanHemelen said:

rap said:

So far, all I've been able to locate is a small clip (preview) that goes for 8 mins. The whole thing runs for 55 mins?

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Is clicking on the links in the first post of this thread really that much of a hassle?

I did, and all I get is a 10 minute video clip.

rap said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Is clicking on the links in the first post of this thread really that much of a hassle?

I did, and all I get is a 10 minute video clip.

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Yes, that is ONE of the FIVE links. Hint: you need to click the one that says "60 minute edit" next to it.

Militant said:

rap said:

Can the entire documentary be viewed online without having to pay or join?

You never have to pay for BBC content.

I guess I imagined that license fee.

TheEnglishGent said:

Agreed, if this doc was targeted at the hardcore P fanbase, it would (assumedly) be a lot different and more interesting. But it is still worthwhile as it is. Thanks!

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For insight on the physical condition of the tapes, check out Susan's comments. They are near the end of the video clip titled "Maybe he's waiting for the right time" on this page: http://www.bbc.com/news/m...e-31962180

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With the Vault, it's hard to separate truth from the legend...Bart earlier made some good points about that.

BartVanHemelen said:

rap said:

I did, and all I get is a 10 minute video clip.

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Yes, that is ONE of the FIVE links. Hint: you need to click the one that says "60 minute edit" next to it.

Hint: VIDEO not AUDIO!

rap said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Yes, that is ONE of the FIVE links. Hint: you need to click the one that says "60 minute edit" next to it.

Hint: VIDEO not AUDIO!

hint: it's radio.

although we might assume that they recorded it on all film, judging from the clips....

Pentacle said:

rap said:

Hint: VIDEO not AUDIO!

hint: it's radio.

although we might assume that they recorded it on all film, judging from the clips....

.

It is of course possible that they actually produced both the 30-minute and 50-minute versions of the documentary as video, considering the short videos on the website aren't merely "raw" excerpts from the interviews and considering there is the 10 minute promo video. Though I'd assume that editing such video woudl be a lot more work.

BartVanHemelen said:

Pentacle said:

hint: it's radio.

although we might assume that they recorded it on all film, judging from the clips....

.

It is of course possible that they actually produced both the 30-minute and 50-minute versions of the documentary as video, considering the short videos on the website aren't merely "raw" excerpts from the interviews and considering there is the 10 minute promo video. Though I'd assume that editing such video woudl be a lot more work.

In the radio show he's never interacting with the interviewees, I believe; that leads me to believe it's really just a Q&A. (Like with film press junkets, where you never see the interviewer - so that they can later edit the interviewer in for each individual country/show.)

Also, they've set up camera and lights, so why not just film it all.

The presenter/maker is a Prince-fan, so I could see him wanting to make the individual interviews available. (No editing involved.) It might contain a lot of info that's interesting for the 'real' fans. But I don't know if there are rights issues involved.

ThomasBjj said:

BartVanHemelen has his own opinion on many Prince topics. Some I agree with and some I don't. At least he has a solid opinion and a reason why he feels that way. I know his delivery can rub some people the wrong way, but hell, the way Kcoolmuzio communicates rubs me the wrong way (and he or she doesn't ever really have any substance to 99% of her posts).

Always insisting everything since the 80s sucks is equally as annoying as always insisting everything is a masterpiece. They both need to just go outside and get some fresh air...

Thing is though, at least Bart uses his words well when making his points, KCOOL fails in this regard.
In my not-so-humble opinion, of course...

[Edited 3/27/15 8:21am]

Here's an example of me taking Bart's side:

There's no excuse for factual errors for something like this. I know that kind of thing nearly ruined Toure's book for me.
Fact checking and editing seem to be a dead art...

BartVanHemelen said:

Oh for fuck's sake: he plays Chaka Khan's COVER of "I feel For You" as an example of Prince writing for other artists! Yes, I know, Prince did write for Chaka, but NOT "I Feel For You". And then he does it again: claims Prince wrote "Nothing Compares 2 U" for Sinéad O'Connor! FACTUAL errors in a DOCUMENTARY! There are so many examples he could have used, and yet two of the three were FACTUALLY WRONG!

PorterUK said:

My point being there are avenues outside of costly engineers and people who would know the value of the items.

Except, it would require "costly engineers and people who would know the value" to do a proper backup and to ensure that this legacy can be restored in the best possible manner. This kind of thing takes skills and needs to be done by professionals.

djThunderfunk said:

Here's an example of me taking Bart's side:

There's no excuse for factual errors for something like this. I know that kind of thing nearly ruined Toure's book for me.
Fact checking and editing seem to be a dead art...

BartVanHemelen said:

Oh for fuck's sake: he plays Chaka Khan's COVER of "I feel For You" as an example of Prince writing for other artists! Yes, I know, Prince did write for Chaka, but NOT "I Feel For You". And then he does it again: claims Prince wrote "Nothing Compares 2 U" for Sinéad O'Connor! FACTUAL errors in a DOCUMENTARY! There are so many examples he could have used, and yet two of the three were FACTUALLY WRONG!

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While I see your point - and they are glaring errors to even a semi-obsessed Prince fan - what songs could have been used instead that would a) be known to the public and b) have been allowed to be used?

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Songs written for others are in the dozens but trying to get the rights to something like say 'With This Tear' written for Celine Dion would be difficult as it was just an album track. And it would be unrecognisable to any layperson watching the documentary.

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I put the use of 'I Feel For You' and 'Nothing Compares 2 U' down to artistic licence. EVERYONE know these songs. SOME might know their true origins, MANY won't. ALL would accept that they are phenomenally successful and musically fantastic songs.

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There wasn't much else to be annoyed about with the documentary in my eyes. In fact, I enjoyed it very much - particularly the extended BBC World Service broadcast. I was most disappointed that the tracks referenced by the employees were all known to us in one form or another. Makes me think the unknown great songs that exist only in the Vault must number very few indeed.

.

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As I said straight after, just because we want definitive answers doesn't mean that Prince's (former) employees have them. They were closer to the inner world sure. But they aren't Prince. Only he'd be able to give us answers - and even they would be tainted by his mood, his recollection, his agenda.

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[Edited 3/27/15 10:11am]

PorterUK said:

djThunderfunk said:

Here's an example of me taking Bart's side:

There's no excuse for factual errors for something like this. I know that kind of thing nearly ruined Toure's book for me.
Fact checking and editing seem to be a dead art...

.

While I see your point - and they are glaring errors to even a semi-obsessed Prince fan - what songs could have been used instead that would a) be known to the public and b) have been allowed to be used?

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Plenty to choose from.

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Songs written for others are in the dozens but trying to get the rights to something like say 'With This Tear' written for Celine Dion would be difficult as it was just an album track. And it would be unrecognisable to any layperson watching the documentary.

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What "rights" would need to be secured, pray tell? Please inform us why Stevie Nick's "Stand Back" would be impossible to get?

Or "Manic Monday" by The Bangles?

"Sugar Walls" by Sheena Easton?

"Jungle Love" by the Time?

"Nasty Girl" by Vanity 6?

"The Glamorous Life" by Sheila E?

"Holly Rock" by Sheila E?

"A Love Bizarre" by Sheila E?

"Sex Shooter" by Apollonia 6?

"The Bird" by The Time?

"If I Love U 2 Nite" by Mica Paris?

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Factual mistakes are factual mistakes.

Vice has an interview with Mobeen Azhar, which I don't think has been linked here.

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No surprise, Prince was actively trying to sabotage this documentary:

.

I have to say, getting a hold of Prince was hugely difficult. It's probably worth me telling you that I've been in touch with Prince's PR company for ages, and they weren't very helpful. The requests would go around in a circle. Once, every couple of months, I would call up and say, "We're doing this documentary. I want to know about Prince's availability. Is there any way we can interview 3rdEyeGirl, the current band, or Prince? Maybe I'd get a response back in two weeks saying, "We've put this request forward."

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When things really started moving and I went into full-time production, the first interview I got was with Matt Fink, the keyboard player for the Revolution. He plays that famous riff on "1999." A few days later, the PR company emails me one line—this is after six months of me being in touch—and the one line is, "Hey, Mobeen, who have you got signed up to do this documentary?" And I'm thinking, OK, do I tell them? Because at this point I've spoken to, I think, six or seven people and the only two who have really signed up are Cat and Matt Fink. So I think I don't want to mention Cat. I'll just test the water and say I'm speaking to Matt Fink and a host of other Prince associates and protégés. Within 24 hours, Matt Fink emailed me and says, "Hey, Prince's lawyers have been in touch. I can't do the interview. Take care. Bye."

.

There's a ton of great stuff in that interview, go read it.

I gave Fink's details to Mobeen, since I'd already interviewed him when I did the Parade documentary.

Back then, I don't think he'd really heard much from Prince's lawyers and so we talked to him a lot. But we got that same issue with Wendy and Lisa. I think they'd recently done an interview and had a lot of pressure from Prince's lawyers about it, and on that basis they declined me, unfortunately.

Thanks for confirming what a jackass P has become. He hasn't worked with those individuals for decades and he harasses them for talking to the media? First Amendment, anyone?

BartVanHemelen said:

Vice has an interview with Mobeen Azhar, which I don't think has been linked here.

.

No surprise, Prince was actively trying to sabotage this documentary:

.

I have to say, getting a hold of Prince was hugely difficult. It's probably worth me telling you that I've been in touch with Prince's PR company for ages, and they weren't very helpful. The requests would go around in a circle. Once, every couple of months, I would call up and say, "We're doing this documentary. I want to know about Prince's availability. Is there any way we can interview 3rdEyeGirl, the current band, or Prince? Maybe I'd get a response back in two weeks saying, "We've put this request forward."

.
When things really started moving and I went into full-time production, the first interview I got was with Matt Fink, the keyboard player for the Revolution. He plays that famous riff on "1999." A few days later, the PR company emails me one line—this is after six months of me being in touch—and the one line is, "Hey, Mobeen, who have you got signed up to do this documentary?" And I'm thinking, OK, do I tell them? Because at this point I've spoken to, I think, six or seven people and the only two who have really signed up are Cat and Matt Fink. So I think I don't want to mention Cat. I'll just test the water and say I'm speaking to Matt Fink and a host of other Prince associates and protégés. Within 24 hours, Matt Fink emailed me and says, "Hey, Prince's lawyers have been in touch. I can't do the interview. Take care. Bye."

.

There's a ton of great stuff in that interview, go read it.

That's a really fantastic interview. I probably learnt more from it than from the documentary. Good find

(No disrespect to the doc mind, I think it did what it did very well)

Something else that's snappier and isn't mentioned in the documentary is, without mentioning any names, I know on good authority that one thing that's in the vault and unlikely to ever come out is a collaboration with Madonna that Prince has toyed with releasing and was going to release it at one point but he hasn't.

.

Is this something other than the work he did for her "Like A Prayer" album? In other words, one or more songs other than "Love Song"?

CandaceS said:

Something else that's snappier and isn't mentioned in the documentary is, without mentioning any names, I know on good authority that one thing that's in the vault and unlikely to ever come out is a collaboration with Madonna that Prince has toyed with releasing and was going to release it at one point but he hasn't.

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Is this something other than the work he did for her "Like A Prayer" album? In other words, one or more songs other than "Love Song"?

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I vaguely recall some rumors about more contributions, something about a movie soundtrack IIRC -- mid-1990s?.

.

Let's face it, seems kinda odd that "Love Song" and the couple of small contributions to some other tracks on her album were all that came out of their collaboration, considering that project had a cover name ("Daisy Miller") to avoid being leaked.

CandaceS said:

Thanks for confirming what a jackass P has become. He hasn't worked with those individuals for decades and he harasses them for talking to the media? First Amendment, anyone?

It's 's life! If he doesn't want his past band members (that he made famous and rich) talk about it. It's his right! They should want to obey his wishes. But U calling a jackass is VERY disrespectful, uncalled for & TACKY!!!

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

CandaceS said:

Thanks for confirming what a jackass P has become. He hasn't worked with those individuals for decades and he harasses them for talking to the media? First Amendment, anyone?

It's 's life! If he doesn't want his past band members (that he made famous and rich) talk about it. It's his right! They should want to obey his wishes. But U calling a jackass is VERY disrespectful, uncalled for & TACKY!!!

Prince does NOT have the right to prevent other people from speaking about their past together.

They DO have the right to talk about him. They could be held accountable for slander, but, otherwise they have the right to talk about working with him all they want.

What most of them don't have is the money or the will it would take to fight for their rights in court. He does have the money and the will to sue them into silence. This doesn't make him "right" or indicate that he has a right to not have people talk about him. Some would say he is disrespectful of other peoples rights which is uncalled for and way beyond tacky.

Just sayin'...

[Edited 3/30/15 22:12pm]

BartVanHemelen said:

.

I vaguely recall some rumors about more contributions, something about a movie soundtrack IIRC -- mid-1990s?.

.

I think that was From Dusk Till Dawn

djThunderfunk said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

It's 's life! If he doesn't want his past band members (that he made famous and rich) talk about it. It's his right! They should want to obey his wishes. But U calling a jackass is VERY disrespectful, uncalled for & TACKY!!!

Prince does NOT have the right to prevent other people from speaking about their past together.

They DO have the right to talk about him. They could be held accountable for slander, but, otherwise they have the right to talk about working with him all they want.

What most of them don't have is the money or the will it would take to fight for their rights in court. He does have the money and the will to sue them into silence. This doesn't make him "right" or indicate that he has a right to not have people talk about him. Some would say he is disrespectful of other peoples rights which is uncalled for and way beyond tacky.

Just sayin'...

[Edited 3/30/15 22:12pm]

Ok, we can agree to disagree.....

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Ok, we can agree to disagree.....

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No, you're wrong, djThunderfunk is right.

BartVanHemelen said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Ok, we can agree to disagree.....

.

No, you're wrong, djThunderfunk is right.

.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

djThunderfunk said:

Prince does NOT have the right to prevent other people from speaking about their past together.

They DO have the right to talk about him. They could be held accountable for slander, but, otherwise they have the right to talk about working with him all they want.

What most of them don't have is the money or the will it would take to fight for their rights in court. He does have the money and the will to sue them into silence. This doesn't make him "right" or indicate that he has a right to not have people talk about him. Some would say he is disrespectful of other peoples rights which is uncalled for and way beyond tacky.

Just sayin'...

[Edited 3/30/15 22:12pm]

Ok, we can agree to disagree.....

Sure, except I was not providing an opinion. I was speaking factually about the civil rights of the parties involved. Factually speaking, your statement about "rights" is incorrect.

If you "disagree" on these facts, I suggest you look it up. You have access to a computer.

Thanks BartV & CandaceS!