BartVanHemelen said:

Looks to me like the guy made a song that resonated with people, and the music industry had to play catch-up.

.

Note that Hozier's song is about something, and not just a whiney complaint about how all current music sounds the same and how he is soooo much better than everybody else.

Bart, Hozier's song is a great. But with respect to the comment I was commenting on, his success is a an example of exceptio probat regulum fallacy. If someone makes a blanket statement about "how things are" as in describing some rule, then they should explain the rule, not the exception. If today's music industry produced more Hozier examples, that's be great.

[Edited 2/1/15 9:13am]

V10LETBLUES said:

ufoclub said:

Bruno Mars is very popular right now with the his image and mannerisms. That's part of the pop battle.

It's about the music. It's always about the music. People are making excuses. Bruno Mars today is making far better music than Prince. And far better produced that's for damn sure.

Bruno Mars = crappy songs AND he looks like Ponch from CHiPs. His popularity has more to do with the dumbing down of listeners than the quality of music. Lyrically he's one of the worst out there. Easily.

V10LETBLUES said:

funksterr said:

Fully agree. To me AOA is JOYLESS. It's production is amatuerish. I'm being objective here. For people to be perplexed as to why it isn't selling or wondering why radio isn't playing AOA are not being impartial. It really is that bad. Any music critic that gave it good marks has no bussiness being a music critic. Sure, USA Today and Vibe are not known for anything other kissing ass and we can ignore those critics off hand, but all the others who gave it high marks are either deaf or paid off.

Can anyone really listen to any of it and think, " if someone heard this on the radio, people would be blown away!"
There is nothing on the radio half as bad/mediocre/badly produced/out of touch/ boring as anything on AOA.

And even if he can't write something happy anymore, i would love for him to channel whatever he is feeling into something passionate, blues, whatever instead of pandering the Walmart Great Value brand of music. Nobody runs to Walmart to purchace any Great Value brand product. They settle for it.

[Edited 1/31/15 11:40am]

To quote you from another thread: "Art and cristism go hand in hand. There is no troll about it. All artists knows this. Art is meant to be discussed. People are passionate about art. That's a good thing. It is ok to be critical. It's all subjective. Grow up people."

Prince is 56 years old. Nearly TRIPLE the age of some pop stars. No matter what he releases it will not be popular to the masses.

FunkyD said:

Prince as been too much about teaching things ever since his conversion to JW instead of focusing on making FUN jams. Uptown Funk is a fun song. I don't hate Gold Stardard but hearing a song with lyrics about what music should sound like and how people should behave isn't really fun.

[Edited 1/31/15 12:18pm]

you have a really valid point here ......

jcurley said:

To be honest for a very long time Prince has been in a catch 22 place. If he wrote something like uptown funk it would be classed as pedestrian. His last few albums have contained such pop songs n they were derided. Now he releases an album. I feel. Prince himself enjoys n it flops. He's a victim of his historical critical success

I think this is true in the sense that P writes something way better than Uptown Funk frequently and nobody cares, or else people call it "dated" and "boring" and then it peaks at #74 on Adult Urban AC or whatever... which is obviously BS. So, I'm with you there.

But I also think this is quite solvable for P, and even though sometimes people are unfair to him, he could -- and if he cares so much -- should do what's necessary and hit it big again.

Despite his massive talent, I think P does plenty of little things that turn off potential listeners, new fans, old fans, radio programmers, etc., etc. Yeah, he was never "easy" to work with, but now that he's not a 400-lb-gorilla-megastar anymore, I feel like the little things he does that turn fans and execs and critics and casual listeners away from his newer work (or just result in them not giving that newer work a fair listen and/or proper credit) are catching up with him on a virtually perpetual basis.

What if P were to write the best new stuff he could and also dusted off a few strong Vault tracks that feel like they fit his upcoming project... and then he were to bring in a couple of really talented young, modern producers (whom P genuinely respects and who also have great 2010-2015 track records with major successes) to work with him and help him fine-tune the album to its final 12-14 track format/concept/presentation?

This new album would still, as always, be fundamentally defined by P's distinct sound, but the current, hit-savvy producers would play a valuable role as first-rate advisors who are experts on the ca. 2015 pop-hitmaking maket. They could (1) tinker here or there with small changes/additions, so that an otherwise killer P track isn't brought down or made basically unplayable by top radio stations because of a dated/out-of-touch or radio-inappropriate element or so it doesn't lose its potential just because of some brief misstep and then (2) introduce P to some new musical trends and ideas that P might not otherwise be keeping up on damn near 24/7 the way guys like this tend to... and incorporating a cool, catchy trend or idea the right way could really make a song stand out and be memorable/timely... and (3) they'd do a sort of "quality control" to eliminate the really frustrating stuff P sometimes does nowadays that completely messes with a track's potential, such as, just for example, chipmunk voice.

And then, after this album is completed, what if P worked in good faith with the top execs and marketing guys at a major label, being basically cooperative re: videos, promo appearances, going along with their single choices, etc. And then what if -- and please don't get me wrong about this, as I do not at all mean going the "Supernatural" route or doing anything obvious/shameless -- P included a couple of tracks (like most musicians do on their big hit albums) billed as "Prince featuring X," with X = a current star who is also a really talented musician being utilized on a song where this star actually adds something really cool musically?

And then what if P made -- (i.e. showed up and did what the director said on the shoot days) -- high-production-quality videos and, after that, just did normal promotional stuff for the normal industry time period for big stars promoting hit albums? Yeah, P still writes plenty of great songs that destroy current #1 hits artistically; he's an incredible musician... but if he wants to be commercially relevant, I think it would be so easy for him to do it! And he clearly wants it, which makes him not doing it puzzling/frustrating. IMO all P needs to do is, more-or-less, what is written above, and he'd have massive hit singles and albums again. I just don't get it... and I wish he really would give this blueprint a try.

Mandingo said:

Prince could write 'uptown funk'by Bruno Mars in the space of a toilet dump session n record it in one take. P could be releasing albums of hits instead he releases bullshit. Embarrassing Its like Miley getting rich off twerking like she invented it and Beyonce not coming back with a killer song n moves. P.. sup? [Edited 1/31/15 6:24am]

Prince DOESN'T need to be ashamed of himself for the reasons you gave.

lezama said:

paulludvig said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Note that Hozier's song is about something, and not just a whiney complaint about how all current music sounds the same and how he is soooo much better than everybody else.

Hozier's song is great, but you could easily trace the music to tons of old songs, and if you can't

hear the similarity in the vocal arrangement to 70's Elton John, then you aren't listening.

But my honest opinion: Both Uptown Funk, and Take Me To Church are great new songs by artists under 30 who at least care about making a quality song..I haven't heard Hozier's album, but have heard that Church is about it...

But Bruno? No, he's no creative genius, he's mining a lot of old school sounds, but he's doing it

better than anyone else. And he's not making Auto Tune crap with Prize Patrol Horns in like Prince is. That lame Prize Patrol horn in Art Official Cage is such a stupid over played sound effect, I

couldn't believe he put it in there. Josh probably told him it would make him sound modern. The

stupid Sports Talk Radio show I am addicted to plays it every damn morning they give away tickets to a Magic game...so I'm sick of it...and then Prince uses it...

But back to Bruno...sure, he's no innovator, but at least he is inspired by some great artists...

"Locked Out Of Heaven"....there's a lot of Police influence there, and Sting even played bass on a live performance at what...the Grammys?

"Treasure"...yeah, it's pretty much a new version of MJ's "PYT," but it's a good song either way.

"When I Was Your Man"...a by the numbers ballad, but a good one.

I don't really like anything by Bruno before 2012, but even that stuff I don't like is not horrible.

And I'm not totally trying to knock Prince here. If AOA and PE were recorded properly without the

sound levels so high, and if he would simply knock off the pandering to young people with the

Auto Tune and outdated cringe worthy sound effects, I'd give him more credit. Hell, if AOA and PE

were just one 80 min cd with the best of both albums, I'd still be happy with it.

As is, AOA and PE are pretty good, but the warts from trying too hard to sound modern annoy the crap out of me...

At least Bruno is trying to sound old school...and I applaud him for it.

[Edited 2/1/15 13:46pm]

V10LETBLUES said:

lezama said:

Bart, Hozier's song is a great. But with respect to the comment I was commenting on, his success is a an example of exceptio probat regulum fallacy. If someone makes a blanket statement about "how things are" as in describing some rule, then they should explain the rule, not the exception. If today's music industry produced more Hozier examples, that's be great.

[Edited 2/1/15 9:13am]

The music industry has changed. The internet has to a large extent democratized music. The music industry cannot control music distribution anymore. If someone like Prince, with name recognition, cache of genius status, the full backing of a major music industry mover and every major site on the internet and tv network pushing his music and still no one wants it, vs a nobody with none of that making it big is huge. The industry machine a lot of people here blame does not work anymore. People are becoming Youtube stars all on their own. New opportunities are cropping up without the need of the entrenched players. But regardless, you an artist and his work still has to resonate to rise to the top. There is more competition than ever before. Prince was jetted to the front of the line via his name alone. Given so much preferential treatment. Maybe you think his new album is great, well good for you, but the masses do not agree. [Edited 2/1/15 13:22pm]

Oh yes, music is becoming all democratic, and the masses have ruled that Prince's new music is no good. Because through time immemorial, the masses have always done a good job picking quality music like You Light Up My Life. It's all very simple.

2funkE said:

Prince is 56 years old. Nearly TRIPLE the age of some pop stars. No matter what he releases it will not be popular to the masses.

The old too old excuse is back. Folks have used that one since Prince turned 30. If he were making music as entertaining as he used to or fun like some of the other acts that are more successful today, I'd believe. But right now he's really just getting beat on the music alone.

funksterr said:

2funkE said:

Prince is 56 years old. Nearly TRIPLE the age of some pop stars. No matter what he releases it will not be popular to the masses.

The old too old excuse is back. Folks have used that one since Prince turned 30. If he were making music as entertaining as he used to or fun like some of the other acts that are more successful today, I'd believe. But right now he's really just getting beat on the music alone.

Can you prove artists of Prince's longevity aren't particularly popular?

Even Madonna, which used to be sort of an exception to the rule, has been having problems for a few releases now.

Aerogram said:

funksterr said:

The old too old excuse is back. Folks have used that one since Prince turned 30. If he were making music as entertaining as he used to or fun like some of the other acts that are more successful today, I'd believe. But right now he's really just getting beat on the music alone.

Can you prove artists of Prince's longevity aren't particularly popular?

Even Madonna, which used to be sort of an exception to the rule, has been having problems for a few releases now.

I think that's a fraudulent argument that only considers a single factor: age. How many of Prince's contemporaries are signed to major labels? Of that group, how many haven't destoyed their voices, bodies or talents with addiction? How many have retained a fairly youthful appearance? How many have personally reinvented their sound time and time again with success for changing radio and popular trends? How many are mega-famous superstar household names? Prince sound-alikes have had major pop hits through every 3-5 year period since Purple Rain made him a superstar. Yet Prince himself has struggled to produce a big hit since probably 1994. His sound has never fallen out of favor with the public, he jsut won't give it up. That's the problem. Age is an all too easy excuse.

Aerogram said:

Aerogram said:

Songs are hit's for lots of reasons - sometimes because of expectations, reputations and/or hype and sometimes because they are, plain and simply, a good song.

Uptown Funk would have been a massive hit if it was released by Mark Ronson featuring Prince instead of Bruno Mars.

Is it derivative of/ influenced by the Minneapolis Sound? Sure....but what so wrong with that? What's so different from Prince having a hit with Sexy MF, a song which owed JB as much of a debt than Ronson owes Prince here.

funksterr said:

2funkE said:

Prince is 56 years old. Nearly TRIPLE the age of some pop stars. No matter what he releases it will not be popular to the masses.

The old too old excuse is back. Folks have used that one since Prince turned 30. If he were making music as entertaining as he used to or fun like some of the other acts that are more successful today, I'd believe. But right now he's really just getting beat on the music alone.

When I was 14-18, a time period when you consume probably as much music as you ever will, there was no way we were listening to music from a 56 year old dude who happened to be relevant to the masses before I was born. Bowie's last album was excellent, and nobody except die hard's listened to it. It has very little to do with music quality IMHO. It has a lot to do with age, what demograpohic consumes music the most, and what they demand from their music. Prince does not make music easily digested by the masses.

jasminejoey said:

laurarichardson said:

V10LETBLUES said:

dbpdexter said:

If Prince put out uptown funk no one would pay attention to it. It's not that people think the song is good i'ts about who's singing it and Bruno Mars is the hot artist right now. If Bruno Mars put out AOA with his vocals instead of Prince it would have been album of the year. Nowindays people don't buy music because it's good they buy music that is the latest fashion and hot artist at the time.

Nonsense

Exactly. Prince had the chops, but things changed with Purple Rain.
why?
...wildly popular.

sorry- Bruno makes good music and writes super catchy hooks and works his production.

funksterr said:

Aerogram said:

Can you prove artists of Prince's longevity aren't particularly popular?

Even Madonna, which used to be sort of an exception to the rule, has been having problems for a few releases now.

I think that's a fraudulent argument that only considers a single factor: age. How many of Prince's contemporaries are signed to major labels? Of that group, how many haven't destoyed their voices, bodies or talents with addiction? How many have retained a fairly youthful appearance? How many have personally reinvented their sound time and time again with success for changing radio and popular trends? How many are mega-famous superstar household names? Prince sound-alikes have had major pop hits through every 3-5 year period since Purple Rain made him a superstar. Yet Prince himself has struggled to produce a big hit since probably 1994. His sound has never fallen out of favor with the public, he jsut won't give it up. That's the problem. Age is an all too easy excuse.

Paul McCartney . Sounds great, amazing last record.

2funkE said:

funksterr said:

The old too old excuse is back. Folks have used that one since Prince turned 30. If he were making music as entertaining as he used to or fun like some of the other acts that are more successful today, I'd believe. But right now he's really just getting beat on the music alone.

When I was 14-18, a time period when you consume probably as much music as you ever will, there was no way we were listening to music from a 56 year old dude who happened to be relevant to the masses before I was born. Bowie's last album was excellent, and nobody except die hard's listened to it. It has very little to do with music quality IMHO. It has a lot to do with age, what demograpohic consumes music the most, and what they demand from their music. Prince does not make music easily digested by the masses.

Okay, you do realize Prince has written like 50-75 or so Top Ten hits, right? This is just a list of the one's released as Prince, but still: http://www.billboard.com/...board-hits He's been out of form for so long, I think peeps forget that Prince was a hugely successful commercial talent before he started thinking he was too big to fail, or whatever, and then went all bitter and mad at the world.

God only knows why he writes so uptight is more recent years, but until he has a song that sounds like it should be a radio hit, and he properly promotes it and nothing happens, I won't believe age is holding him back.

funksterr said:

Aerogram said:

Can you prove artists of Prince's longevity aren't particularly popular?

Even Madonna, which used to be sort of an exception to the rule, has been having problems for a few releases now.

I think that's a fraudulent argument that only considers a single factor: age. How many of Prince's contemporaries are signed to major labels? Of that group, how many haven't destoyed their voices, bodies or talents with addiction? How many have retained a fairly youthful appearance? How many have personally reinvented their sound time and time again with success for changing radio and popular trends? How many are mega-famous superstar household names? Prince sound-alikes have had major pop hits through every 3-5 year period since Purple Rain made him a superstar. Yet Prince himself has struggled to produce a big hit since probably 1994. His sound has never fallen out of favor with the public, he jsut won't give it up. That's the problem. Age is an all too easy excuse.

You ask how many "retained their youthful appearance". but claim age is just an excuse.

That's like saying you're not sexist for not hiring women, it's just that all who apply are ugly

Zannaloaf said:

funksterr said:

I think that's a fraudulent argument that only considers a single factor: age. How many of Prince's contemporaries are signed to major labels? Of that group, how many haven't destoyed their voices, bodies or talents with addiction? How many have retained a fairly youthful appearance? How many have personally reinvented their sound time and time again with success for changing radio and popular trends? How many are mega-famous superstar household names? Prince sound-alikes have had major pop hits through every 3-5 year period since Purple Rain made him a superstar. Yet Prince himself has struggled to produce a big hit since probably 1994. His sound has never fallen out of favor with the public, he jsut won't give it up. That's the problem. Age is an all too easy excuse.

Paul McCartney . Sounds great, amazing last record.

Lionel Richie did well with his last album.

Zannaloaf said:

funksterr said:

I think that's a fraudulent argument that only considers a single factor: age. How many of Prince's contemporaries are signed to major labels? Of that group, how many haven't destoyed their voices, bodies or talents with addiction? How many have retained a fairly youthful appearance? How many have personally reinvented their sound time and time again with success for changing radio and popular trends? How many are mega-famous superstar household names? Prince sound-alikes have had major pop hits through every 3-5 year period since Purple Rain made him a superstar. Yet Prince himself has struggled to produce a big hit since probably 1994. His sound has never fallen out of favor with the public, he jsut won't give it up. That's the problem. Age is an all too easy excuse.

Paul McCartney . Sounds great, amazing last record.

That's one person and it's not like he's competition for Taylor Swift (for those who measure quality by sales).

funksterr said:

Zannaloaf said:

Paul McCartney . Sounds great, amazing last record.

Lionel Richie did well with his last album.

Wasn't Tuskagee a collection of his old songs performed country-style? Kind of a redressed greatest hits then? Well done though.

Aerogram said: