I gotta chime in on this one: Ashy, all of your retorts to the people that are arguing your claim are all at this froum for a reason: We all LOVE Prince's music, and his musicianship. With that said, some of your replies come off as a bit pushy, like your word is Bible-truth or something when in fact the debate is all about what we like. Half of the folks on here (the forum itself, not this topic) arent fans of EVH and VH like you and I are (and trust me, I practically worship Roth-era VH. So Im not picking on you, but you're fighting a fight a lot of folks will not agree with you on simply because their Prince-ness won't allow them to.) And everybody else reading this: You aren't wrong with your opinions, either. Nobody is wrong here and nor should they be condemned for their thoughts either. Funny, the most passionate thing in the world for me is music, and everything about it is subjective which means I can never be right when in a discussion about it. So as long as everyone here knows Im not going to slam them, here is what I think: You CAN'T compare Eddie to Prince, or vice-versa. We're talking 2 totally different guitar-geniuses that treat and look at their instruments quite differently from each other. When I get asked about P's guitar playing, I've narrowed it down to this: Brilliantly sloppy with a purpose in mind, and full of soul. With Eddie: Showmanship first, passion second. I finally got to see VH a few years back, and Eddie's solo left a lot to be desired. Half of the time, the guy was cheesin' because he knows damn well the shit he was playing usually can't be duplicated. His talent is a gift, much like P's. And man, half of the charm on those first 6 VH albums is the charisma the band give off in their playing, and cocaine. Lots of cocaine . And alot of the guitar players I know love Eddie, but also consider him to be a master of deceit. Why you ask? Take "Eruption" for example. I'm not a guitar player, so when I hear that I think of a man clearly on some sort of PEDs playing out of his mind, but the guitar players think it's all a crock, and it's simply him just finger-tapping (Care to elaborate what that is?). Not me saying that, just going by what people who know the ways of the guitar-force have told me. And you also bring up Steve Vai, a criminally overlooked player. He's an animal for sure, but since he was classically taught and knows all the boring stuff like scales and what-not, some of his stuff comes off as devoid of soul. Same with John Petrucci, guitarist for Dream Theater, another favorite group of mine. Both can technically run circles around their peers, but stops dead in their tracks when they play something from the heart. But then you got a guy like Joe Satriani who walks both lines pretty confidently. He can shred like JP and SV, and then also bust out a solo that would make one weep over it's beauty and power like P's live stuff can do. EVH is all that and then some, but he forgets sometimes that playing comes from the heart and not from the dropped jaws in the audience. P? Well, we all love him. Thats why we're here. P can also do all of the above, his crime is that he doesn't play enough guitar on his recorded output. Most of the time, hes playing for the song itself, and only turns it up to 11 on those good occasions (Hello, "Rock Hard in a Funky Place"). But in closing, I appreciated the eerie similiarities between P and EVH, but discussing guitar players after your point is an unsolvable conversation, which is why it's always best to know the diff between oranges and apples. And speaking of early VH, if you arent familiar with the "Fair Warning" album, get on that right away. Dark, heavy, and pretty funky at times too. Thank you for making me step back and actually put some thought into this. I rarely post in this section of the forum simply because it's been rather...bland lately. Cheers from New Jersey!

[Edited 1/25/15 23:13pm]

djThunderfunk said:

ashynevermind said:

You wanna hear heaven? Go on YouTube and find EVH's isolated guitar tracks, effing unreal, especially "Hot For Teacher", all in one take! This is why thosefirst 6 albums are legendary.

You just sent me for a good old fashioned WOW!!

I had not idea these isolated tracks were out there, I listened to a couple on youtube and then a couple by Randy Rhoads... I'm loving this!

.

I think these are from games like Guitar Hero.

treehouse said:

Exactly. Turns out the underrated part of his (and probably most guitarists) abilities that make him real special are his charisma, rhythm, timing, and structure...things that also helped make Prince...and things that make these debates about skillset kinda pointless.

You'll notice I'm not participating in the "debate"...

BartVanHemelen said:

djThunderfunk said:

You just sent me for a good old fashioned WOW!!

I had not idea these isolated tracks were out there, I listened to a couple on youtube and then a couple by Randy Rhoads... I'm loving this!

.

I think these are from games like Guitar Hero.

Hmmm, I was under the impression that recordings used for those games were rerecordings done so that the artists could collect all the $ and not share it with whomever happened to own their catalog. These clips sound like the original recordings to me...

Anyone know the answer?

thebanishedone said:

ashynevermind said:

Those aren't really complicated at all. Good for a pop artist, but really? Those are child's play but are good within the context of Prince's world. I once heard Bon Jovi play "Purple Rain" at a sound check and Richie Sambora ripped the shit out of the solo and expounded on it without losing the feel. My point is that his stuff is pretty basic for the majority of guitarists.

Im a guitar player also.so let me tell you,everybody can play million notes but only rare guitar players can construct a beautiful melodic solo.

Yes those examples are not showcasing virtuoso playing ,these are examples of great guitar solos.

Solo is just a flavour.it should always work in the context of the music noth otherwise.

His studio solos work very well in the context of the songs and that is the only thing that matters.

Eddie Van Halen is a legend,guitar innovator .but nowdays or more than a decade he sucks on guitar.look at this

https://www.youtube.com/w...jx_GjyXCs4

or this

https://www.youtube.com/w...kX35O7H3Jc

this kind of thing can never ever happen to Prince .

Nowdays Prince is a much better guitar player than Eddie .

Eddie lost it long time ago and yes Prince could play Hot For Teacher rhythm guitar,you forgot that Prince is one of the best rhythm guitar player in the world.

I am a guitar player as well, and a fan of EVH.

But PRINCE TOWERS ABOVE SHREDDERS LIKE ED.

It is not about speed, or playing the instrument in new ways (Cathedral) of rock and roll attitude, or makeup and outfits.

As ANY musician will tell you, it isa about MELODY--PURE AND SIMPLE.

AND PRINCE PLAYS ALL THE INSTRUMENTS WITH A BETTER MELODIC SENSE THAN ANYONE OTHER THAN MILES--EVER.

Sorry for the caps, but it needs to be said LOUD.

Ashey is either a kid or dont have a clue about guitar playing,judged by the things he wrote here

ashynevermind said:

TrevorAyer said:

i am pretty sure with prince affection for numerically named records, and his dominance in 1984, that prince was jealous that VH named their album 1984 and stole a little of P's thunda ..

VH was solid tho .. evh plays as many instruments as prince and even had more success than prince even without DLR (not that van hagar wasn't metal for grandmas) better guitarist and keyboardist than prince ..

True enough. Better guitarist than Prince goes without saying. EVH is one of the best that ever walked the planet earth (no pun intended, well, maybe...) Prince can't even compare to himon any level as a guitarist, good as he is, that's how stellar EVH is as a virtuoso, although on this site people seem to think Prince is in the same league as Vai, Satriani, or Hendrix, etc. And EVH's probably a better pianist as well since he's classically trained on the instrument. The genius of Van Halen is that by naming the album 1984 DLR knew the critics would make the obligatory Orwell comments whereby Roth was showing off his literary knowledge as well as mocking the seriousness of what was expected in that year. Orwell's vision fits 2015 far better, friend.

[Edited 1/24/15 8:52am]

I wouldnt go that far on the guitar comparison and the reasoning for the piano comparison is almost laughable

Stimpy said:

thebanishedone said:

Im a guitar player also.so let me tell you,everybody can play million notes but only rare guitar players can construct a beautiful melodic solo.

Yes those examples are not showcasing virtuoso playing ,these are examples of great guitar solos.

Solo is just a flavour.it should always work in the context of the music noth otherwise.

His studio solos work very well in the context of the songs and that is the only thing that matters.

Eddie Van Halen is a legend,guitar innovator .but nowdays or more than a decade he sucks on guitar.look at this

https://www.youtube.com/w...jx_GjyXCs4

or this

https://www.youtube.com/w...kX35O7H3Jc

this kind of thing can never ever happen to Prince .

Nowdays Prince is a much better guitar player than Eddie .

Eddie lost it long time ago and yes Prince could play Hot For Teacher rhythm guitar,you forgot that Prince is one of the best rhythm guitar player in the world.

I am a guitar player as well, and a fan of EVH.

But PRINCE TOWERS ABOVE SHREDDERS LIKE ED.

It is not about speed, or playing the instrument in new ways (Cathedral) of rock and roll attitude, or makeup and outfits.

As ANY musician will tell you, it isa about MELODY--PURE AND SIMPLE.

AND PRINCE PLAYS ALL THE INSTRUMENTS WITH A BETTER MELODIC SENSE THAN ANYONE OTHER THAN MILES--EVER.

Sorry for the caps, but it needs to be said LOUD.

You will never get old white boy Van Halen lovers to see the excellent points you make. I agree wholeheartedly.

JoshuaWho said:

Stimpy said:

I am a guitar player as well, and a fan of EVH.

But PRINCE TOWERS ABOVE SHREDDERS LIKE ED.

It is not about speed, or playing the instrument in new ways (Cathedral) of rock and roll attitude, or makeup and outfits.

As ANY musician will tell you, it isa about MELODY--PURE AND SIMPLE.

AND PRINCE PLAYS ALL THE INSTRUMENTS WITH A BETTER MELODIC SENSE THAN ANYONE OTHER THAN MILES--EVER.

Sorry for the caps, but it needs to be said LOUD.

You will never get old white boy Van Halen lovers to see the excellent points you make. I agree wholeheartedly.

Have to concur. Love me some VH but Prince's melodies and notes are so damn beautiful and soulful.

TheBoneRanger said:

joyinrepetition said:

I, like you, am a huge Van Halen fan. I have all their albums up to when DLR departed and I haven't gave the group a serious listen since then. I tried with Hagar, but he just didn't do it for me. I just don't think you're giving Prince enough credit. Believe me I know Eddie is a monster on the ax but I think that Prince could play some of what Eddie does as Prince is a well versed musician. I don't think it would take long for Prince to figure out chord progressions and changes at all. This is what he and Eddie do. Could it be that Prince plays more R&B and Funk, you never really saw him actually get loose and rip shit up? I'd like to hear EVH play some Funk. It might tell a different story.

....

The band claim that songs like "So This is Love" and "Push Comes to Shove" from "Fair Warning" were excursions into funk, but that ain't really funk to my ears....I don't hear any chicken scratch guitars or James Brown funky drummer beats. The Fair Warning tunes still sound too white.

....

However, I read in an interview with Eddie where he was talking about how, in the club days, the band would play covers of "Kool and the Gang" and "KC and the Sunshine Band" because they had to play them to get the gigs. Eddie said he played the chicken scratch guitar on those songs (I think he referred to it as the "chinka chinka" guitar parts) so there may be some bootlegs out there of that stuff. I'd love to hear that if it exists, but I have my doubts that Ed could pull it off with the authenticity that Prince does....as much as I love his playing and what he's done for guitar, he still kind of plays like a white boy. I got a feeling that Eddie would end up sounding more like Jimmy Page on "The Crunge" from "Houses of the Holy."

.....

BoneRanger, that stuff eists, dig deep on YouTube, that's where VH bootlegs live on, yeah they did "Hollywood Shuffle" on the regular as well as some of that funky James Gang material. Eddie gets bored with repetition is the key here, that's why his music is so dynamic and Prince's music, though Ilove it, is simplistic, even those mamoth funk jams are same ol shit ad nauseum...

By the way EVH is 60 yrs old today....

[Edited 1/26/15 10:57am]

kygermo said:

I gotta chime in on this one: Ashy, all of your retorts to the people that are arguing your claim are all at this froum for a reason: We all LOVE Prince's music, and his musicianship. With that said, some of your replies come off as a bit pushy, like your word is Bible-truth or something when in fact the debate is all about what we like. Half of the folks on here (the forum itself, not this topic) arent fans of EVH and VH like you and I are (and trust me, I practically worship Roth-era VH. So Im not picking on you, but you're fighting a fight a lot of folks will not agree with you on simply because their Prince-ness won't allow them to.) And everybody else reading this: You aren't wrong with your opinions, either. Nobody is wrong here and nor should they be condemned for their thoughts either. Funny, the most passionate thing in the world for me is music, and everything about it is subjective which means I can never be right when in a discussion about it. So as long as everyone here knows Im not going to slam them, here is what I think: You CAN'T compare Eddie to Prince, or vice-versa. We're talking 2 totally different guitar-geniuses that treat and look at their instruments quite differently from each other. When I get asked about P's guitar playing, I've narrowed it down to this: Brilliantly sloppy with a purpose in mind, and full of soul. With Eddie: Showmanship first, passion second. I finally got to see VH a few years back, and Eddie's solo left a lot to be desired. Half of the time, the guy was cheesin' because he knows damn well the shit he was playing usually can't be duplicated. His talent is a gift, much like P's. And man, half of the charm on those first 6 VH albums is the charisma the band give off in their playing, and cocaine. Lots of cocaine . And alot of the guitar players I know love Eddie, but also consider him to be a master of deceit. Why you ask? Take "Eruption" for example. I'm not a guitar player, so when I hear that I think of a man clearly on some sort of PEDs playing out of his mind, but the guitar players think it's all a crock, and it's simply him just finger-tapping (Care to elaborate what that is?). Not me saying that, just going by what people who know the ways of the guitar-force have told me. And you also bring up Steve Vai, a criminally overlooked player. He's an animal for sure, but since he was classically taught and knows all the boring stuff like scales and what-not, some of his stuff comes off as devoid of soul. Same with John Petrucci, guitarist for Dream Theater, another favorite group of mine. Both can technically run circles around their peers, but stops dead in their tracks when they play something from the heart. But then you got a guy like Joe Satriani who walks both lines pretty confidently. He can shred like JP and SV, and then also bust out a solo that would make one weep over it's beauty and power like P's live stuff can do. EVH is all that and then some, but he forgets sometimes that playing comes from the heart and not from the dropped jaws in the audience. P? Well, we all love him. Thats why we're here. P can also do all of the above, his crime is that he doesn't play enough guitar on his recorded output. Most of the time, hes playing for the song itself, and only turns it up to 11 on those good occasions (Hello, "Rock Hard in a Funky Place"). But in closing, I appreciated the eerie similiarities between P and EVH, but discussing guitar players after your point is an unsolvable conversation, which is why it's always best to know the diff between oranges and apples. And speaking of early VH, if you arent familiar with the "Fair Warning" album, get on that right away. Dark, heavy, and pretty funky at times too. Thank you for making me step back and actually put some thought into this. I rarely post in this section of the forum simply because it's been rather...bland lately. Cheers from New Jersey!

[Edited 1/25/15 23:13pm]

thanks huy, and if you notice I never compared their music in the subject of my post becauseI wasn't evencomparing them like thatbut somenobhead came out with P being better than Eddie and that's whwn you have to close it down. It's his bday today, EVH 60 yrs old,God bless him...

djThunderfunk said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

I think these are from games like Guitar Hero.

Hmmm, I was under the impression that recordings used for those games were rerecordings done so that the artists could collect all the $ and not share it with whomever happened to own their catalog. These clips sound like the original recordings to me...

Anyone know the answer?

I've read that with specififc equipment attached to the outputs you can make isolated tracks from GH for those songs not specifically made so. I think they just hand GH their masters for the isolation as opposed to re-recording, could be both ways...

Happy 60th birthday to EDWARD LODEWIJK VAN HALEN, LONG LIVE KING EDWARD!!!

there are only 2 recognized innovators of the rock guitar and they are Jimi Hendrix and Eddie Van Halen, the entire music world agrees on this, end of argument.

there are volumes of books dedicated to Eddie's playing, and Jimi's, as well as being filled with worship and praise from every guitaist in every genre known to man. There are no such books for Prince as a guitarist and never will be. I love his playing style but he is out of their league, that's the point here, not how many albums or songs they've composed. Don't be mad, haters, facts are facts. Prince's greatest gift is composing, although as of late, one wonders with the quality of music he makes, but unfortunately he'll only ever be remembered for his 6 year run from 1999 to perhaps Lovesexy. Time for him to step it up, you truly think PlectrumElectrum is a good rock record?????????

Stay Frosty, Edward...

George Carlin didn't go back in time to help either of them with their homework, so at the end of the day, who really cares?

williamb610 said:

"Prince surpasses Hendrix"? That's a fucking joke. Hendrix set the standard for modern rock and roll moreso than any other guitarist; he's a legend. That can never be taken from him.

Yeh obviously. How are you stacking them up?

Artist name as a header then add in their accomplishments/songs? Or in order of appearance because then you can fall back to the legacy argument and talk about how many books there are? Because call me old fashioned, I'd judge a musician by their music, not what someone else says about their music in a book.

If it's order of appearance then yeh Jimmy paved the way and Prince owes about 60% (80% with the afro) of his on stage persona to Jimmy. There is no question there. If there was no Jimmy then there would be no Prince. But thats lazy, thats just a liner timeline. X must be greater than X because they were born first?

It's difficult to seperate an artists cultural impact and legacy but it's not impossible. Having said that, Prince was a cultural shockwave in the 80s and early 90s - but we can ignore that because...

Once you strip back who influenced who and who's biopic took/will take the most box office. You're left with the music. Prince has more great songs than Hendrix by at least 5-1. Even if you cull half of the Prince catalog you're still left with an awful lot of top quality music.

Again, Nobody can take away what Jimmy Hendrix did for music. But if we just look at what they produced as recording artists... That's Prince.

ashynevermind said:

Oh yeah, and everybody wants to know what drugs you're on and where they can get them...

Dude, you just said "Prince can't play blues" then went on to assume the same about the Jazz genre. You're talking about Prince from the perspective of someone who's just bought a Greatest Hits CD.

He's lived a lifetime in the industry is known for his work ethic and the hours him and his bands put in. Bandmates have spoken about him, There are legends who've talked about him. Santana, Brian May, Clapton etc etc have all spoken about him. None have said he was over-rated. Quite the opposite.

Noodled24 said:

ashynevermind said:

Oh yeah, and everybody wants to know what drugs you're on and where they can get them...

Dude, you just said "Prince can't play blues" then went on to assume the same about the Jazz genre. You're talking about Prince from the perspective of someone who's just bought a Greatest Hits CD.

He's lived a lifetime in the industry is known for his work ethic and the hours him and his bands put in. Bandmates have spoken about him, There are legends who've talked about him. Santana, Brian May, Clapton etc etc have all spoken about him. None have said he was over-rated. Quite the opposite.

For clarity: I own every Prince album, single,a great majority of the bootlegs, yada, yada, yada. I also am a musician, yada, yada, yada. Prince doesn't know the Blues well as evidenced by the fact he doesn't play it often, why do YOU think he can. He's a funk player first and foremost which is a pretty simple style. He can solo a bit, sure, but for Hard Rock guys it's a joke, it's simple, now that doesn't mean they don't like him, but I'm not talking as a fan I'm talking as a musician, Prince's stuff is soimple and that's fine.

I also gitta say he gets a lot of attention because he's black, and there's very few black guitaristsin the pop/rock music genre, so don't brin g up any Blues or oure instrumental players, I'm talking black guitarists that make records for the mainstream, who is there Lenny effin' Kravitz, he truly sucks, but Prince is the only one and I think people find it so unique that their praise goes overboard. But again, no one said his stuff doesn't sound good, it's great, we're talking shop here, mate, and that means ability and skill level, and for advanced guys or even half-advanced ones, Prince' playing is quite average.

when I was frst starting on piano and eyboards as ateenager I was already a Prince fan so naturally I'd pick his stuff for some practicing and it was quite easy to learn by ear, there'snothing difficult going on that a beginner couldn't handle, it's that simple,but he's a GREAT COMPOSER all the same, but no virtuosity, no mastery of any one thing, but that's not a BAD THING.

I guess a lot of the fans of this site are stuck in beginner's mode as far P's music's concerned but I moved on ages ago as a far as challenges go. He should have kept Renato Neto, that guy would've expanded hisplaying and knowledge of music. His solo playing live was really good, comple passages that still conveyed the essence of whatever song or thing he was doing.

As far as jazz, the Madhouse stuff isn't jazz, come on. I once played it for a ja friend of mine and he laughed. He said sounds like someoone who doesn't know jazz trying to play jazz. To him it was just rudimentary instrumentals, more funk than anything. To advanced players they hear Prince just inserting this and that from several styles to fool the Top 40 crowd and his general fanbase who are not musicians, they don't know any better. Was it you who wrote that EVH couldn't play the solo on Batdance? That's all echo and effects and isn't even fast but amazes the black fans who have no idea how far rock guitar has gone because they don't listen to that style.

I'm waiting...

ashynevermind said:

For clarity: I own every Prince album, single,a great majority of the bootlegs, yada, yada, yada. I also am a musician, yada, yada, yada. Prince doesn't know the Blues well as evidenced by the fact he doesn't play it often, why do YOU think he can. He's a funk player first and foremost which is a pretty simple style. He can solo a bit, sure, but for Hard Rock guys it's a joke, it's simple, now that doesn't mean they don't like him, but I'm not talking as a fan I'm talking as a musician, Prince's stuff is soimple and that's fine.

Bootlegs - Plenty of examples. He's almost deliberately avoided doing any straight 12 bar blues on record. No beginner is gonna be learning funk before they can play 12 bar blues.
If your only reference for "good" is speed... But composition, timing and accuracy are also factors. You're talking like only speed counts.

I also gitta say he gets a lot of attention because he's black, and there's very few black guitaristsin the pop/rock music genre, so don't brin g up any Blues or oure instrumental players, I'm talking black guitarists that make records for the mainstream, who is there Lenny effin' Kravitz, he truly sucks, but Prince is the only one and I think people find it so unique that their praise goes overboard. But again, no one said his stuff doesn't sound good, it's great, we're talking shop here, mate, and that means ability and skill level, and for advanced guys or even half-advanced ones, Prince' playing is quite average.

Gary Clarke Jnr?

when I was frst starting on piano and eyboards as ateenager I was already a Prince fan so naturally I'd pick his stuff for some practicing and it was quite easy to learn by ear, there'snothing difficult going on that a beginner couldn't handle, it's that simple,but he's a GREAT COMPOSER all the same, but no virtuosity, no mastery of any one thing, but that's not a BAD THING.

I stand by my original statement. Prince mastered the guitar years ago. If Brian May is willing to gush.. well I've heard him play, I've not heard you. Do you have a youtube channel?

I guess a lot of the fans of this site are stuck in beginner's mode as far P's music's concerned but I moved on ages ago as a far as challenges go. He should have kept Renato Neto, that guy would've expanded hisplaying and knowledge of music. His solo playing live was really good, comple passages that still conveyed the essence of whatever song or thing he was doing.

He kept Renato for about 5/6 years?

As far as jazz, the Madhouse stuff isn't jazz, come on. I once played it for a ja friend of mine and he laughed. He said sounds like someoone who doesn't know jazz trying to play jazz. To him it was just rudimentary instrumentals, more funk than anything. To advanced players they hear Prince just inserting this and that from several styles to fool the Top 40 crowd and his general fanbase who are not musicians, they don't know any better. Was it you who wrote that EVH couldn't play the solo on Batdance? That's all echo and effects and isn't even fast but amazes the black fans who have no idea how far rock guitar has gone because they don't listen to that style.

It wasn't me no.

[Edited 1/26/15 16:11pm]

LOL at Prince not being able to play blues and LOL at people underestimating him on guitar, AGAIN.

I'll just leave these two quotes here:

"I don't know, ask Prince" - Eric Clapton after being asked what it feels like to be the best guitarist in the world.

"Hey everyone, thanks for coming out. It's pretty amazing you all are here. Although, if were you I'd be next door seeing the greatest guitarist of all time, Prince" - Steve Vai when playing a show in Vancouver at the venue next to where Prince was playing.

Clapton thinks he's the best. Vai thinks he's the best. Random people on the internet don't. Go figure.

I remember when Let's Go Crazy started getting airplay on the radio, and all the kids at school used to say that it was EVH on guitar, just like how he was on Beat It.

Militant said:

LOL at Prince not being able to play blues and LOL at people underestimating him on guitar, AGAIN.

I'll just leave these two quotes here:

"I don't know, ask Prince" - Eric Clapton after being asked what it feels like to be the best guitarist in the world.

"Hey everyone, thanks for coming out. It's pretty amazing you all are here. Although, if were you I'd be next door seeing the greatest guitarist of all time, Prince" - Steve Vai when playing a show in Vancouver at the venue next to where Prince was playing.

Clapton thinks he's the best. Vai thinks he's the best. Random people on the internet don't. Go figure.

that's vai being pretty generous, and you think he means it? Are you of adult age or what? Oh yeah, Obama also once said you can keep your primary physician...

next...

ashynevermind said:

Noodled24 said:

Dude, you just said "Prince can't play blues" then went on to assume the same about the Jazz genre. You're talking about Prince from the perspective of someone who's just bought a Greatest Hits CD.

He's lived a lifetime in the industry is known for his work ethic and the hours him and his bands put in. Bandmates have spoken about him, There are legends who've talked about him. Santana, Brian May, Clapton etc etc have all spoken about him. None have said he was over-rated. Quite the opposite.

For clarity: I own every Prince album, single,a great majority of the bootlegs, yada, yada, yada. I also am a musician, yada, yada, yada. Prince doesn't know the Blues well as evidenced by the fact he doesn't play it often, why do YOU think he can. He's a funk player first and foremost which is a pretty simple style. He can solo a bit, sure, but for Hard Rock guys it's a joke, it's simple, now that doesn't mean they don't like him, but I'm not talking as a fan I'm talking as a musician, Prince's stuff is soimple and that's fine.

I also gitta say he gets a lot of attention because he's black, and there's very few black guitaristsin the pop/rock music genre, so don't brin g up any Blues or oure instrumental players, I'm talking black guitarists that make records for the mainstream, who is there Lenny effin' Kravitz, he truly sucks, but Prince is the only one and I think people find it so unique that their praise goes overboard. But again, no one said his stuff doesn't sound good, it's great, we're talking shop here, mate, and that means ability and skill level, and for advanced guys or even half-advanced ones, Prince' playing is quite average.

when I was frst starting on piano and eyboards as ateenager I was already a Prince fan so naturally I'd pick his stuff for some practicing and it was quite easy to learn by ear, there'snothing difficult going on that a beginner couldn't handle, it's that simple,but he's a GREAT COMPOSER all the same, but no virtuosity, no mastery of any one thing, but that's not a BAD THING.

I guess a lot of the fans of this site are stuck in beginner's mode as far P's music's concerned but I moved on ages ago as a far as challenges go. He should have kept Renato Neto, that guy would've expanded hisplaying and knowledge of music. His solo playing live was really good, comple passages that still conveyed the essence of whatever song or thing he was doing.

As far as jazz, the Madhouse stuff isn't jazz, come on. I once played it for a ja friend of mine and he laughed. He said sounds like someoone who doesn't know jazz trying to play jazz. To him it was just rudimentary instrumentals, more funk than anything. To advanced players they hear Prince just inserting this and that from several styles to fool the Top 40 crowd and his general fanbase who are not musicians, they don't know any better. Was it you who wrote that EVH couldn't play the solo on Batdance? That's all echo and effects and isn't even fast but amazes the black fans who have no idea how far rock guitar has gone because they don't listen to that style.

I'm waiting...

Funk is simple to you, hunh? Rock is simple to me. Most rock is boring. One thing that Prince isn't is "simple". Check 'Alexa De Paris' and get back to me. Check '777-9311' and get back to me. If you want fast Prince, check 'Small Club 2nd show's Rave Unto the Joy Fantastic and get back to me.

williamb610 said:

ashynevermind said:

For clarity: I own every Prince album, single,a great majority of the bootlegs, yada, yada, yada. I also am a musician, yada, yada, yada. Prince doesn't know the Blues well as evidenced by the fact he doesn't play it often, why do YOU think he can. He's a funk player first and foremost which is a pretty simple style. He can solo a bit, sure, but for Hard Rock guys it's a joke, it's simple, now that doesn't mean they don't like him, but I'm not talking as a fan I'm talking as a musician, Prince's stuff is soimple and that's fine.

I also gitta say he gets a lot of attention because he's black, and there's very few black guitaristsin the pop/rock music genre, so don't brin g up any Blues or oure instrumental players, I'm talking black guitarists that make records for the mainstream, who is there Lenny effin' Kravitz, he truly sucks, but Prince is the only one and I think people find it so unique that their praise goes overboard. But again, no one said his stuff doesn't sound good, it's great, we're talking shop here, mate, and that means ability and skill level, and for advanced guys or even half-advanced ones, Prince' playing is quite average.

when I was frst starting on piano and eyboards as ateenager I was already a Prince fan so naturally I'd pick his stuff for some practicing and it was quite easy to learn by ear, there'snothing difficult going on that a beginner couldn't handle, it's that simple,but he's a GREAT COMPOSER all the same, but no virtuosity, no mastery of any one thing, but that's not a BAD THING.

I guess a lot of the fans of this site are stuck in beginner's mode as far P's music's concerned but I moved on ages ago as a far as challenges go. He should have kept Renato Neto, that guy would've expanded hisplaying and knowledge of music. His solo playing live was really good, comple passages that still conveyed the essence of whatever song or thing he was doing.

As far as jazz, the Madhouse stuff isn't jazz, come on. I once played it for a ja friend of mine and he laughed. He said sounds like someoone who doesn't know jazz trying to play jazz. To him it was just rudimentary instrumentals, more funk than anything. To advanced players they hear Prince just inserting this and that from several styles to fool the Top 40 crowd and his general fanbase who are not musicians, they don't know any better. Was it you who wrote that EVH couldn't play the solo on Batdance? That's all echo and effects and isn't even fast but amazes the black fans who have no idea how far rock guitar has gone because they don't listen to that style.

I'm waiting...

Funk is simple to you, hunh? Rock is simple to me. Most rock is boring. One thing that Prince isn't is "simple". Check 'Alexa De Paris' and get back to me. Check '777-9311' and get back to me. If you want fast Prince, check 'Small Club 2nd show's Rave Unto the Joy Fantastic and get back to me.

Haha, I own those records, you're too funny, buy Alexa De Paris is one of his best, unless that's Wendy???Still no very complicated....

ashynevermind said:

Militant said:

LOL at Prince not being able to play blues and LOL at people underestimating him on guitar, AGAIN.

I'll just leave these two quotes here:

"I don't know, ask Prince" - Eric Clapton after being asked what it feels like to be the best guitarist in the world.

"Hey everyone, thanks for coming out. It's pretty amazing you all are here. Although, if were you I'd be next door seeing the greatest guitarist of all time, Prince" - Steve Vai when playing a show in Vancouver at the venue next to where Prince was playing.

Clapton thinks he's the best. Vai thinks he's the best. Random people on the internet don't. Go figure.

that's vai being pretty generous, and you think he means it? Are you of adult age or what? Oh yeah, Obama also once said you can keep your primary physician...

next...

You feel your opinion is greater than Clapton or Vai? - Even if Vai was "being generous" - to shout that out during one of his own shows? He knows what Prince can do.

So far you've claimed Prince can't play blues dispite there being plenty of evidence to the contrary

You've claimed funk is an easier style to play than blues - which frankly makes me doubt you've ever held a guitar let alone can play one, but it's cool. You can post a link to your videos on youtube and show us how you have the skill to back up your big talk. I'm waiting...

[Edited 1/27/15 6:33am]

Steve Vai is a huge fan of P. He was asked in 1987 who would he like to jam with..and he said "Prince"...He said not too long after that P saw that interview and invited Steve (and his wife) to Paisley Park to jam....He also said that he wrote "The Animal" as his personal mini tribute to P.He said he wanted to hear P play more guitar on his records.

C'mon people this thread has gotten ridiculous. Yes there are conncetions between Prince and Van Halen. Prince himself has mentioned this in interviews. He is well read on the music world in general. But this thread has changed into Prince being the best guitarist and comparing him to EVH. It all depends on what criteria one uses to decide whose is the best. And personally I find the concept of the best to be not needed. We all know that Prince is amazing on guitar. He is consistently named of the most underated guitarists off all time by Rolling Stone and Musician magazine. His contemporaries like Clapton, Vai and others always pay homage to him. It's not by chance that at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame he was given the last guitar solo in the tribute to George Harrison. But to me what separated Prince from the others is how he puts its all together. He sense of harmony and melody sprinkled with riffs and drumbeats is why I love his music the most. He can do rock but most rock musicians cant do some of the stuff that he does. All I am saying is that he is the whole package when it comes to a musician. He truly is the stuff of legend. No, I do not worship him and of course I find some of his ways ridiculous but for me it's always about the music nothing else. So to dissect one aspect of his music such as his guitar playing is a sin when it comes to him. His music is soulful, rocking and of course funky. Yes EVH is amazing on guitar no doubt but Prince has many layers and many levels. No one comes close in my eyes to having the whole package. Guitar playing is just one tool in his tool chest. No need to compare. Let this thread die. lol

[Edited 1/27/15 8:54am]

prince is NOT good at blues ... all his blues tunes sound like homoginized easy listening .. they are mostly joke songs .. 3 handed lady .. if u got the time i got the ride .. just typical blues with a cutesy lyric .. nothing that even feels remotely like the blues ..

ashynevermind said:

For clarity: I own every Prince album, single,a great majority of the bootlegs, yada, yada, yada. I also am a musician, yada, yada, yada. Prince doesn't know the Blues well as evidenced by the fact he doesn't play it often, why do YOU think he can. He's a funk player first and foremost which is a pretty simple style. He can solo a bit, sure, but for Hard Rock guys it's a joke, it's simple, now that doesn't mean they don't like him, but I'm not talking as a fan I'm talking as a musician, Prince's stuff is soimple and that's fine.

I also gitta say he gets a lot of attention because he's black, and there's very few black guitaristsin the pop/rock music genre, so don't brin g up any Blues or oure instrumental players, I'm talking black guitarists that make records for the mainstream, who is there Lenny effin' Kravitz, he truly sucks, but Prince is the only one and I think people find it so unique that their praise goes overboard. But again, no one said his stuff doesn't sound good, it's great, we're talking shop here, mate, and that means ability and skill level, and for advanced guys or even half-advanced ones, Prince' playing is quite average.

when I was frst starting on piano and eyboards as ateenager I was already a Prince fan so naturally I'd pick his stuff for some practicing and it was quite easy to learn by ear, there'snothing difficult going on that a beginner couldn't handle, it's that simple,but he's a GREAT COMPOSER all the same, but no virtuosity, no mastery of any one thing, but that's not a BAD THING.

I guess a lot of the fans of this site are stuck in beginner's mode as far P's music's concerned but I moved on ages ago as a far as challenges go. He should have kept Renato Neto, that guy would've expanded hisplaying and knowledge of music. His solo playing live was really good, comple passages that still conveyed the essence of whatever song or thing he was doing.

As far as jazz, the Madhouse stuff isn't jazz, come on. I once played it for a ja friend of mine and he laughed. He said sounds like someoone who doesn't know jazz trying to play jazz. To him it was just rudimentary instrumentals, more funk than anything. To advanced players they hear Prince just inserting this and that from several styles to fool the Top 40 crowd and his general fanbase who are not musicians, they don't know any better. Was it you who wrote that EVH couldn't play the solo on Batdance? That's all echo and effects and isn't even fast but amazes the black fans who have no idea how far rock guitar has gone because they don't listen to that style.

I'm waiting...

Are you the type of guy who thinks a Jackson Pollock could have been painted by a monkey?

TrevorAyer said:

prince is NOT good at blues ... all his blues tunes sound like homoginized easy listening .. they are mostly joke songs .. 3 handed lady .. if u got the time i got the ride .. just typical blues with a cutesy lyric .. nothing that even feels remotely like the blues ..

How can someone make a uniform blues song, that is typical blues... that sounds nothing like the blues? Is English your first language, because what you just said is incoherent.

I get that he doesn't use typical blues lyrics... but it's a wild leap to say that because "The Ride" is about sex and not the typical "my woman done me wrong" blues lyrics - that equates to Prince not being able to play the blues.

[Edited 1/27/15 11:44am]