independent and unofficial
Prince fan community
Forum jump
Forums > Prince: Music and More > Prince/Van Halen connections
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Page 1 of 5 12345>
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Author

Tweet     Share

Message
Thread started 01/24/15 8:03am

ashynevermind

Prince/Van Halen connections

For those of you who limit yourselves to one genre or style of music might be interested to learn of many parallels these artists share, specifically from their origins up to 1984.

1. Both acts were Warner Bros. artists.

2. Their first 6 releases were all in the same years:

For You/Van Halen - 1978

Prince/Van Halen II - 1979

Dirty Mind/ Women And Children First - 1980

Controversy/Fair Warning - 1981

1999/Diver Down - 1982

Purple Rain/1984 - 1984

3. Both acts released their biggest selling albums ever in 1984.

4. Both acts had two of the biggest tours in 1984.

5. According to Ian Christe David Lee Roth was dating Patricia Kotero (Apollonia) at the time she was cast in Purple Rain. Prince made her break-up with him to maintain the image and illusion that she was his true girlfriend throughout the period. - The Van Halen Saga

6. David Lee Roth was among the select guests to attend the listening party for Around In The World In A Day at the WB offices in New York.

7. Prince began doing the jumping splits, or Russians, like DLR after Van halen became staples of MTV. P also started doing the high-kicks on the Hit-N-Run Tour which were DLR trademarks.

8. David Lee Roth wore assless chaps on the Hide Your Sheep Tour of 1982, while Prince wore assless pants on the MTV video awards in 1991.

9. In the 80's DLR and Prince were the only rock stars who 1. frequently went shirtless on stage and 2. made frequent costume changes.

10. According to Wikipedia both Van Halen and Prince are listed in the 80 million plus category of the biggest selling artists of all time.

11. Both understood the power of color, visuals and athletic performances in their live shows.

12. DLR once said in a 1985 interview with Creem Magazine that Prince's music was starting to sound claustrophobic like he sat alone in a closet with a drum machine.

13. Prince has said that the sound he wanted to achieve for Chaos And Disorder was like the live sound he'd heard on a Van Halen record. P said he heard they cut one of their albums, actually almost all of them, within two weeks. And in this way it kept them from ceaselessly laboring and overproducing their records.

14. DLR can be seen clapping at his aisle-end seat as Prince passes by with Big Chick at the end of the performance of "Baby, I'm A Star" at the 1985 Grammy Awards Show.

15. Both DLR and Prince are most definitely narcissistic and macho alpha males, and both were frequently lambasted in the 80's for their respective hyper-sexuality images.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #1 posted 01/24/15 8:38am

TrevorAyer

i am pretty sure with prince affection for numerically named records, and his dominance in 1984, that prince was jealous that VH named their album 1984 and stole a little of P's thunda ..

VH was solid tho .. evh plays as many instruments as prince and even had more success than prince even without DLR (not that van hagar wasn't metal for grandmas) better guitarist and keyboardist than prince ..

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #2 posted 01/24/15 8:48am

ashynevermind

TrevorAyer said:

i am pretty sure with prince affection for numerically named records, and his dominance in 1984, that prince was jealous that VH named their album 1984 and stole a little of P's thunda ..

VH was solid tho .. evh plays as many instruments as prince and even had more success than prince even without DLR (not that van hagar wasn't metal for grandmas) better guitarist and keyboardist than prince ..

True enough. Better guitarist than Prince goes without saying. EVH is one of the best that ever walked the planet earth (no pun intended, well, maybe...) Prince can't even compare to himon any level as a guitarist, good as he is, that's how stellar EVH is as a virtuoso, although on this site people seem to think Prince is in the same league as Vai, Satriani, or Hendrix, etc. And EVH's probably a better pianist as well since he's classically trained on the instrument. The genius of Van Halen is that by naming the album 1984 DLR knew the critics would make the obligatory Orwell comments whereby Roth was showing off his literary knowledge as well as mocking the seriousness of what was expected in that year. Orwell's vision fits 2015 far better, friend.

[Edited 1/24/15 8:52am]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #3 posted 01/24/15 9:02am

TrevorAyer

dont forget that eddie started on drums then switched with alex who was on guitar .. and alex slays on the drums .. eddie was probably pretty good, just happened to be better on guit

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #4 posted 01/24/15 9:05am

Giveit2mebaby

Excellent ashynevermind

Really enjoyed reading all those truths about those monsters.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #5 posted 01/24/15 10:51am

thebanishedone

EDDIE was a better guitar player in the 80s but nowdays Prince plays guitar much better.Ive seen some very bad moments on guitar by Eddie but not a single one by Prince.Eddie better piano player? Really? show me some evidence please
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #6 posted 01/24/15 11:00am

nosajd

avatar

VH is good but f'n hate DLR, I can't stand his singing, to each their own I suppose.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #7 posted 01/24/15 11:13am

joyinrepetitio
n

avatar

As time has past Prince has gotten extremely better on the guitar to the point he can be compared equally to EVH. To me, Prince has surpassed Hendrix as have many others in their playing. My top four in no order would be Vai, Prince, EVH, and Hendrix.

As a pianist, I would have to see a playoff cause Prince is a killer pianist.

[Edited 1/24/15 11:14am]

__________________________________________________
2 words falling between the drops and the moans of his condition
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #8 posted 01/24/15 11:13am

joyinrepetitio
n

avatar

sorry double post

[Edited 1/24/15 11:15am]

__________________________________________________
2 words falling between the drops and the moans of his condition
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #9 posted 01/24/15 12:35pm

BartVanHemelen

avatar

ashynevermind said:

13. Prince has said that the sound he wanted to achieve for Chaos And Disorder was like the live sound he'd heard on a Van Halen record. P said he heard they cut one of their albums, actually almost all of them, within two weeks.

.

That's got more to do with VH being really lazy, and not being able to stand each other.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #10 posted 01/24/15 1:18pm

ashynevermind

joyinrepetition said:

As time has past Prince has gotten extremely better on the guitar to the point he can be compared equally to EVH. To me, Prince has surpassed Hendrix as have many others in their playing. My top four in no order would be Vai, Prince, EVH, and Hendrix.

As a pianist, I would have to see a playoff cause Prince is a killer pianist.

[Edited 1/24/15 11:14am]

LOFL are you serious? Prince could not play a single solo of EVH's if he tried for years and please don't tell me you're a musiscian. Do you own any of the records I've listed and have you ever heard him play live? Funny, I was joking with a friend about this blog and I told him there'd be fans swear up and down Prince is better than Eddie, dear Lord in Heaven! We'retalking virtuoso, among the fastest alive, Prince isn't fast at all, he can't shred like those boys but he's okay.

Stevie Ray Vaughn was worlds ahead ofPrince and he he's far behind Eddie in terms of technique, seed and innovation. My advice is for you to go YouTube and explore the live footage of a master of the guitar. Hero worship blinds you greatly, and Edward Van Halen was a clasically trained pianist for years but he doesn't play it as such because for him it's place Rock music is minimal. On the Hendri tip, I don't think he's EVH's league but for the Blues, but that's where he wins over prince, who only dips into the Blues, can't really play the style broadly. Honestly, listen to more records because there are those whofeel EVH isn't that good of a guitarist compared to days current shredders, so of that's the case where would Prince stand? Please....

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #11 posted 01/24/15 1:24pm

ashynevermind

BartVanHemelen said:

ashynevermind said:

13. Prince has said that the sound he wanted to achieve for Chaos And Disorder was like the live sound he'd heard on a Van Halen record. P said he heard they cut one of their albums, actually almost all of them, within two weeks.

.

That's got more to do with VH being really lazy, and not being able to stand each other.

No, Bart, Van Halen would lay down the tracks live as a band just like they were performing live so Ted Templeman could capture their power, and EVH did not do overdubs like Prince and most others, one track the rhythm part, second track the solo, although sometimes both on one track. You wanna hear heaven? Go on YouTube and find EVH's isolated guitar tracks, effing unreal, especially "Hot For Teacher", all in one take! This is why thosefirst 6 albums are legendary.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #12 posted 01/24/15 1:47pm

joyinrepetitio
n

avatar

ashynevermind said:

joyinrepetition said:

As time has past Prince has gotten extremely better on the guitar to the point he can be compared equally to EVH. To me, Prince has surpassed Hendrix as have many others in their playing. My top four in no order would be Vai, Prince, EVH, and Hendrix.

As a pianist, I would have to see a playoff cause Prince is a killer pianist.

[Edited 1/24/15 11:14am]

LOFL are you serious? Prince could not play a single solo of EVH's if he tried for years and please don't tell me you're a musiscian. Do you own any of the records I've listed and have you ever heard him play live? Funny, I was joking with a friend about this blog and I told him there'd be fans swear up and down Prince is better than Eddie, dear Lord in Heaven! We'retalking virtuoso, among the fastest alive, Prince isn't fast at all, he can't shred like those boys but he's okay.

Stevie Ray Vaughn was worlds ahead ofPrince and he he's far behind Eddie in terms of technique, seed and innovation. My advice is for you to go YouTube and explore the live footage of a master of the guitar. Hero worship blinds you greatly, and Edward Van Halen was a clasically trained pianist for years but he doesn't play it as such because for him it's place Rock music is minimal. On the Hendri tip, I don't think he's EVH's league but for the Blues, but that's where he wins over prince, who only dips into the Blues, can't really play the style broadly. Honestly, listen to more records because there are those whofeel EVH isn't that good of a guitarist compared to days current shredders, so of that's the case where would Prince stand? Please....

Please! I've seen Van Halen live before I ever saw Prince! Eddie is great but the years have not been kind to him and it's his own fault. As for Shredding, that's not real guitar playing! Any fool can stomp on a distortion box an go ham. Get rid of distortion and play some clean, clear and warm notes and chords to let me know if you can really play a guitar.

I listen to Vai, Vaughn, Hendrix, Page, Satriani, Santana, Prince, Clapton, Hazel and many others from Heavy Metal, Jazz, Funk, Blues or whatever. My musical taste is very wide into many genres. I respect your opinion, but I know what I like and many share my same views. I glady like to debate you on the topic as what this forum is for, right?

__________________________________________________
2 words falling between the drops and the moans of his condition
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #13 posted 01/24/15 2:00pm

joyinrepetitio
n

avatar

Not to take it too far off topic, Ashynevermind, how do you compare EVH to Vai? Vai has to me, over the last 10+ years been one of the most innovative guitarist.

__________________________________________________
2 words falling between the drops and the moans of his condition
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #14 posted 01/24/15 2:11pm

ashynevermind

joyinrepetition said:

ashynevermind said:

LOFL are you serious? Prince could not play a single solo of EVH's if he tried for years and please don't tell me you're a musiscian. Do you own any of the records I've listed and have you ever heard him play live? Funny, I was joking with a friend about this blog and I told him there'd be fans swear up and down Prince is better than Eddie, dear Lord in Heaven! We'retalking virtuoso, among the fastest alive, Prince isn't fast at all, he can't shred like those boys but he's okay.

Stevie Ray Vaughn was worlds ahead ofPrince and he he's far behind Eddie in terms of technique, seed and innovation. My advice is for you to go YouTube and explore the live footage of a master of the guitar. Hero worship blinds you greatly, and Edward Van Halen was a clasically trained pianist for years but he doesn't play it as such because for him it's place Rock music is minimal. On the Hendri tip, I don't think he's EVH's league but for the Blues, but that's where he wins over prince, who only dips into the Blues, can't really play the style broadly. Honestly, listen to more records because there are those whofeel EVH isn't that good of a guitarist compared to days current shredders, so of that's the case where would Prince stand? Please....

Please! I've seen Van Halen live before I ever saw Prince! Eddie is great but the years have not been kind to him and it's his own fault. As for Shredding, that's not real guitar playing! Any fool can stomp on a distortion box an go ham. Get rid of distortion and play some clean, clear and warm notes and chords to let me know if you can really play a guitar.

I listen to Vai, Vaughn, Hendrix, Page, Satriani, Santana, Prince, Clapton, Hazel and many others from Heavy Metal, Jazz, Funk, Blues or whatever. My musical taste is very wide into many genres. I respect your opinion, but I know what I like and many share my same views. I glady like to debate you on the topic as what this forum is for, right?

Let the debate begin...

The key phrase is you said you know what you like, that's fine, but what you like and what is reality are 2 different things. Again, how many VH records do you own? You don't know his work outside of Jump or you wouldn't be arguing. People here are obsessed with Prince to the point of delirium. What Prince song or solo exists that guitarists around the world are trying to figure out? Answer - 0, his stuff is simple, not saying it's not good, I'm saying he's not better than a guitar god which is a fact, not an opinion.

In what way do you wish to argue this? The proof is on vinyl and CD for all time. Nobody picks up the guitar and thinks I want to play because of Prince, or play likePrince. EVH taught an entire generation how to play and all of them attempted to copy him and still can't figure out the chords or the fingerings, it's funny as hell. YouTube is filled with vids of people playing their version of his solos and rhtym parts but hardly anyof them get it right and they're pretty decent players themselves, it's just an advanced level. You honestly think Prince could play the solo in "Hot For Teacher", or even the rhythm part?

Next you'll answer me about style and interpretation, fine, you prefer the way P plays, but that doesn't make him a better player. You have your opinion, I understand, but you cannot even compare the 2 on any level of that instrument. EVH is a virtuoso and recognied genius of the guitar, planet earth knows this. He changed the entire way the guitar is played. Prince has never even been nominated in guitar magaine or any other serious publication about the nstrument for their awards, he's way down on the last, friend. No need to be upset.

I saw Van Halen 2 years ago and I dare say Eddie's even faster now. Check out the track "China Town" off their last disc then pick your jaw up from the floor when it ends. Prince would need years just to figure out the notes of the intro.

As far as playing clean, that's where Eddie's even meaner, listen to "Spanish Fly" on VH II then get back to me. There are more notes and chord changesin that one song than the entire Purple Rain album's songs combined and it clocks in at like a minute and a half!

In sum, you'd likewise call me crazy if I said DLR was a better singer than Prince, and you'd be right. P's a far superior singer in tone, technique, ability, etc. than my boy Diamond Dave, and that's a fact, but I love 'em both, it'snot a competition but this is serious music talk and most Prince fans don't play an instrument and think the man's Mozart or Beethoven. I assue you he is not even close. He is an accomplished figure in the world of Popular Music but nothing more. No classical composer is fawning over the works of Prince wishing to turn his music into a symphonic event. In the end, it's just simple music...

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #15 posted 01/24/15 2:23pm

ashynevermind

joyinrepetition said:

Not to take it too far off topic, Ashynevermind, how do you compare EVH to Vai? Vai has to me, over the last 10+ years been one of the most innovative guitarist.

honestly, I Haven't listened to Vai's studio work lately although I follow his live stuff, but I know even he is a superior player due to his classical training and his theory knowledge, having said that he's not made records with the success level of VH so he's going to be remembered as gun for hire from his days with Zappa to DLR. But Vai is out of thi world, no doubt, Satriani and Eric Johnson to boot.

Please don't think the post u read before this one is me being insulting, if it comes across that way I apologize. I liove Prince, mate, but there are limits to his abilities.

You should also check out Alan Holdsworth, this is the guy EVH used to say inspired him and blew his mind so u can imagine... Holdsworth is a master of legato playing and is absolutely stunning but he sticks to instrumental compositions like Vai but it sounds like a cross between new age jazz and hard rock soloing, more or less.

see, Prince shouldbe listening to guys like these and he could expand his horizons. Long ago he stoppedlistening to accomplished artists and a s a result his work has suffered. He hires decent players but composes everything himself which is now redundant and boring. With Wendy and Lisa they expanded his idea of what pop music could be and they were worth their weight in gold, but his pride will prevent any acknowledgement or reconciliation with them. He feels he's still successful though, so in his mind he's doing nothing wrong. Out of ideas, brickwalls everywhere for him unless he takes a break and composes with other true musicians. It would be epic if he'd come out of his little shell but that day may sadly never come.

[Edited 1/24/15 14:25pm]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #16 posted 01/24/15 3:05pm

SPYZFAN1

As a old school fan of both VH and P I kind of see the similarities between both artists...they both were on the same label and became big at the same time year by year....But as far as it goes with guitar playing I never compared Eddie to P..2 totally different styles of playing and music.

Eddie can play bass..(listen to "Fair Warning" or the 3 new tracks on that greatest hits CD "Best Of Both Worlds)..He can play keys, synths and piano and drums..(not as good as his brother but OK for his demos)..Very heavy handed and rhythmic..Always dug how him and Alex played off of each other.

I agree with the Holdsworth thing..Eddie also has a lot of Clapton and Ollie (Brand X guitarist) in him too.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #17 posted 01/24/15 5:30pm

treehouse

"12. DLR once said in a 1985 interview with Creem Magazine that Prince's music was starting to sound claustrophobic like he sat alone in a closet with a drum machine."

That's pretty brilliant in it's accuracy, although I think that was sort of a standard criticism of all electronic musicians at the time. I think that claustrophibic element is what I miss the most from some of his later music.

Prince as Alpha though?

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #18 posted 01/24/15 6:01pm

ashynevermind

SPYZFAN1 said:

As a old school fan of both VH and P I kind of see the similarities between both artists...they both were on the same label and became big at the same time year by year....But as far as it goes with guitar playing I never compared Eddie to P..2 totally different styles of playing and music.

Eddie can play bass..(listen to "Fair Warning" or the 3 new tracks on that greatest hits CD "Best Of Both Worlds)..He can play keys, synths and piano and drums..(not as good as his brother but OK for his demos)..Very heavy handed and rhythmic..Always dug how him and Alex played off of each other.

I agree with the Holdsworth thing..Eddie also has a lot of Clapton and Ollie (Brand X guitarist) in him too.

On the Clapton note I'm sure you're familiar with Eddie's love of his playiing whilst with Cream, and how he'd slow the LP's down to learn every note, but imagine himplaying with Clapton now or at any time. Some have said that Eric doesn't invite Eddie to the Crossroads thing because he's a bit jelaous, or rather dismissive of Eddie's style. When EVH came out all the haters came out too, Page and Perryespecially, only Ted Nugent was man enough to say Holy Shit, this guy's better than all of us combined!

But despite his love for 60's Clapton, I personally hear none of it in his playing, whereas with Prince it is clear how Santana influenced his soloing, always in thesame key and always those crescendossuspending the last note with a heavy dose of reverb and echo. Lots of times Prince's choice of effects fools the average listener and makes his playing sound faster than it is. He does those simple little runs and people thing he's EVH, Vai or Satriani worthy but P cannot dream of soloing with rapid arpeggios on four frets like these guys regularly do, and it's not a matter of taste it's a matter of ability. That was my point with another blogger, like they say, if you coulda you woulda. Another Prince problem is that he doesn't write many songs on the guitar, he simply adds flourishes and a lead here and there live, that's why there's a debate about his live shows vs. studio work. His solos on record are pretty weak and generic. This is man who writes a song called "Guitar" then doesn't even solo in the song!

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #19 posted 01/24/15 6:05pm

ashynevermind

treehouse said:

"12. DLR once said in a 1985 interview with Creem Magazine that Prince's music was starting to sound claustrophobic like he sat alone in a closet with a drum machine."

That's pretty brilliant in it's accuracy, although I think that was sort of a standard criticism of all electronic musicians at the time. I think that claustrophibic element is what I miss the most from some of his later music.

Prince as Alpha though?

True, but by the context of the discussion it wasn't an insult but an observation revealing that DLR thought highly of Prince's earlier work. In the same interview he kinda went off on Hall & Oates too for losing their soulful sound on their mid-80's stuff because he liked Daryl Hall's voice so much.

[Edited 1/24/15 18:06pm]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #20 posted 01/24/15 6:59pm

bonnie184

I have a copy of Around the World in a Day CD Uk release that instead plays the Van Halen album 1984. Manufacturing error.

[Edited 1/24/15 18:59pm]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #21 posted 01/24/15 7:00pm

chrisslope9

avatar

joyinrepetition said:

ashynevermind said:

LOFL are you serious? Prince could not play a single solo of EVH's if he tried for years and please don't tell me you're a musiscian. Do you own any of the records I've listed and have you ever heard him play live? Funny, I was joking with a friend about this blog and I told him there'd be fans swear up and down Prince is better than Eddie, dear Lord in Heaven! We'retalking virtuoso, among the fastest alive, Prince isn't fast at all, he can't shred like those boys but he's okay.

Stevie Ray Vaughn was worlds ahead ofPrince and he he's far behind Eddie in terms of technique, seed and innovation. My advice is for you to go YouTube and explore the live footage of a master of the guitar. Hero worship blinds you greatly, and Edward Van Halen was a clasically trained pianist for years but he doesn't play it as such because for him it's place Rock music is minimal. On the Hendri tip, I don't think he's EVH's league but for the Blues, but that's where he wins over prince, who only dips into the Blues, can't really play the style broadly. Honestly, listen to more records because there are those whofeel EVH isn't that good of a guitarist compared to days current shredders, so of that's the case where would Prince stand? Please....

Please! I've seen Van Halen live before I ever saw Prince! Eddie is great but the years have not been kind to him and it's his own fault. As for Shredding, that's not real guitar playing! Any fool can stomp on a distortion box an go ham. Get rid of distortion and play some clean, clear and warm notes and chords to let me know if you can really play a guitar.

I listen to Vai, Vaughn, Hendrix, Page, Satriani, Santana, Prince, Clapton, Hazel and many others from Heavy Metal, Jazz, Funk, Blues or whatever. My musical taste is very wide into many genres. I respect your opinion, but I know what I like and many share my same views. I glady like to debate you on the topic as what this forum is for, right?

It should be added that Eddie can not bring the funk or any sort of soul/r&b vibe. He is not as versatile a player as Prince. Although I've heard him step out of charecter now and again over the years, Eddie basically plays one style.

[Edited 1/24/15 19:01pm]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #22 posted 01/24/15 7:00pm

thebanishedone

ashynevermind said:

SPYZFAN1 said:

As a old school fan of both VH and P I kind of see the similarities between both artists...they both were on the same label and became big at the same time year by year....But as far as it goes with guitar playing I never compared Eddie to P..2 totally different styles of playing and music.

Eddie can play bass..(listen to "Fair Warning" or the 3 new tracks on that greatest hits CD "Best Of Both Worlds)..He can play keys, synths and piano and drums..(not as good as his brother but OK for his demos)..Very heavy handed and rhythmic..Always dug how him and Alex played off of each other.

I agree with the Holdsworth thing..Eddie also has a lot of Clapton and Ollie (Brand X guitarist) in him too.

On the Clapton note I'm sure you're familiar with Eddie's love of his playiing whilst with Cream, and how he'd slow the LP's down to learn every note, but imagine himplaying with Clapton now or at any time. Some have said that Eric doesn't invite Eddie to the Crossroads thing because he's a bit jelaous, or rather dismissive of Eddie's style. When EVH came out all the haters came out too, Page and Perryespecially, only Ted Nugent was man enough to say Holy Shit, this guy's better than all of us combined!

But despite his love for 60's Clapton, I personally hear none of it in his playing, whereas with Prince it is clear how Santana influenced his soloing, always in thesame key and always those crescendossuspending the last note with a heavy dose of reverb and echo. Lots of times Prince's choice of effects fools the average listener and makes his playing sound faster than it is. He does those simple little runs and people thing he's EVH, Vai or Satriani worthy but P cannot dream of soloing with rapid arpeggios on four frets like these guys regularly do, and it's not a matter of taste it's a matter of ability. That was my point with another blogger, like they say, if you coulda you woulda. Another Prince problem is that he doesn't write many songs on the guitar, he simply adds flourishes and a lead here and there live, that's why there's a debate about his live shows vs. studio work. His solos on record are pretty weak and generic. This is man who writes a song called "Guitar" then doesn't even solo in the song!

Princes solos on record are weak and generic?

Computer Blue? I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man? Shhh? My Love Is Forever ? really?

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #23 posted 01/24/15 7:24pm

ashynevermind

thebanishedone said:

ashynevermind said:

On the Clapton note I'm sure you're familiar with Eddie's love of his playiing whilst with Cream, and how he'd slow the LP's down to learn every note, but imagine himplaying with Clapton now or at any time. Some have said that Eric doesn't invite Eddie to the Crossroads thing because he's a bit jelaous, or rather dismissive of Eddie's style. When EVH came out all the haters came out too, Page and Perryespecially, only Ted Nugent was man enough to say Holy Shit, this guy's better than all of us combined!

But despite his love for 60's Clapton, I personally hear none of it in his playing, whereas with Prince it is clear how Santana influenced his soloing, always in thesame key and always those crescendossuspending the last note with a heavy dose of reverb and echo. Lots of times Prince's choice of effects fools the average listener and makes his playing sound faster than it is. He does those simple little runs and people thing he's EVH, Vai or Satriani worthy but P cannot dream of soloing with rapid arpeggios on four frets like these guys regularly do, and it's not a matter of taste it's a matter of ability. That was my point with another blogger, like they say, if you coulda you woulda. Another Prince problem is that he doesn't write many songs on the guitar, he simply adds flourishes and a lead here and there live, that's why there's a debate about his live shows vs. studio work. His solos on record are pretty weak and generic. This is man who writes a song called "Guitar" then doesn't even solo in the song!

Princes solos on record are weak and generic?

Computer Blue? I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man? Shhh? My Love Is Forever ? really?

Those aren't really complicated at all. Good for a pop artist, but really? Those are child's play but are good within the context of Prince's world. I once heard Bon Jovi play "Purple Rain" at a sound check and Richie Sambora ripped the shit out of the solo and expounded on it without losing the feel. My point is that his stuff is pretty basic for the majority of guitarists.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #24 posted 01/24/15 7:29pm

ashynevermind

chrisslope9 said:

joyinrepetition said:

Please! I've seen Van Halen live before I ever saw Prince! Eddie is great but the years have not been kind to him and it's his own fault. As for Shredding, that's not real guitar playing! Any fool can stomp on a distortion box an go ham. Get rid of distortion and play some clean, clear and warm notes and chords to let me know if you can really play a guitar.

I listen to Vai, Vaughn, Hendrix, Page, Satriani, Santana, Prince, Clapton, Hazel and many others from Heavy Metal, Jazz, Funk, Blues or whatever. My musical taste is very wide into many genres. I respect your opinion, but I know what I like and many share my same views. I glady like to debate you on the topic as what this forum is for, right?

It should be added that Eddie can not bring the funk or any sort of soul/r&b vibe. He is not as versatile a player as Prince. Although I've heard him step out of charecter now and again over the years, Eddie basically plays one style.

[Edited 1/24/15 19:01pm]

I disagree but we could argue all night long but I know that EVH finds that style of playing boring. Musician Magaine once asked him what he thought of Andy Summer and he said yeah it sounds good for 2 songs but after that it's the same shit over and over again and you wanna blow your brains out. Prince gets away with a lot by copping different styles and due to this his fans think he's some master of these genres. I mean, people on this forum actually think he can play the Blues well!

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #25 posted 01/24/15 7:30pm

ashynevermind

bonnie184 said:

I have a copy of Around the World in a Day CD Uk release that instead plays the Van Halen album 1984. Manufacturing error.

[Edited 1/24/15 18:59pm]

Classic, that could be number 16...

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #26 posted 01/24/15 7:43pm

emesem

Wait no one has mentioned yet that Jump borrows heavily from Dirty Mind?

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #27 posted 01/24/15 8:30pm

thebanishedone

ashynevermind said:

thebanishedone said:

Princes solos on record are weak and generic?

Computer Blue? I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man? Shhh? My Love Is Forever ? really?

Those aren't really complicated at all. Good for a pop artist, but really? Those are child's play but are good within the context of Prince's world. I once heard Bon Jovi play "Purple Rain" at a sound check and Richie Sambora ripped the shit out of the solo and expounded on it without losing the feel. My point is that his stuff is pretty basic for the majority of guitarists.

Im a guitar player also.so let me tell you,everybody can play million notes but only rare guitar players can construct a beautiful melodic solo.

Yes those examples are not showcasing virtuoso playing ,these are examples of great guitar solos.

Solo is just a flavour.it should always work in the context of the music not otherwise.

His studio solos work very well in the context of the songs and that is the only thing that matters.

Eddie Van Halen is a legend,guitar innovator .but nowdays or more than a decade he sucks on guitar.look at this

https://www.youtube.com/w...jx_GjyXCs4

this kind of thing can never ever happen to Prince .

Nowdays Prince is a much better guitar player than Eddie .

Eddie lost it long time ago and yes Prince could play Hot For Teacher rhythm guitar,you forgot that Prince is one of the best rhythm guitar player in the world.

[Edited 1/24/15 20:35pm]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #28 posted 01/24/15 8:36pm

thebanishedone

ashynevermind said:

thebanishedone said:

Princes solos on record are weak and generic?

Computer Blue? I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man? Shhh? My Love Is Forever ? really?

Those aren't really complicated at all. Good for a pop artist, but really? Those are child's play but are good within the context of Prince's world. I once heard Bon Jovi play "Purple Rain" at a sound check and Richie Sambora ripped the shit out of the solo and expounded on it without losing the feel. My point is that his stuff is pretty basic for the majority of guitarists.

Im a guitar player also.so let me tell you,everybody can play million notes but only rare guitar players can construct a beautiful melodic solo.

Yes those examples are not showcasing virtuoso playing ,these are examples of great guitar solos.

Solo is just a flavour.it should always work in the context of the music noth otherwise.

His studio solos work very well in the context of the songs and that is the only thing that matters.

Eddie Van Halen is a legend,guitar innovator .but nowdays or more than a decade he sucks on guitar.look at this

https://www.youtube.com/w...jx_GjyXCs4

or this

https://www.youtube.com/w...kX35O7H3Jc

this kind of thing can never ever happen to Prince .

Nowdays Prince is a much better guitar player than Eddie .

Eddie lost it long time ago and yes Prince could play Hot For Teacher rhythm guitar,you forgot that Prince is one of the best rhythm guitar player in the world.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #29 posted 01/24/15 9:33pm

joyinrepetitio
n

avatar

ashynevermind said:

joyinrepetition said:

Please! I've seen Van Halen live before I ever saw Prince! Eddie is great but the years have not been kind to him and it's his own fault. As for Shredding, that's not real guitar playing! Any fool can stomp on a distortion box an go ham. Get rid of distortion and play some clean, clear and warm notes and chords to let me know if you can really play a guitar.

I listen to Vai, Vaughn, Hendrix, Page, Satriani, Santana, Prince, Clapton, Hazel and many others from Heavy Metal, Jazz, Funk, Blues or whatever. My musical taste is very wide into many genres. I respect your opinion, but I know what I like and many share my same views. I glady like to debate you on the topic as what this forum is for, right?

Let the debate begin...

The key phrase is you said you know what you like, that's fine, but what you like and what is reality are 2 different things. Again, how many VH records do you own? You don't know his work outside of Jump or you wouldn't be arguing. People here are obsessed with Prince to the point of delirium. What Prince song or solo exists that guitarists around the world are trying to figure out? Answer - 0, his stuff is simple, not saying it's not good, I'm saying he's not better than a guitar god which is a fact, not an opinion.

In what way do you wish to argue this? The proof is on vinyl and CD for all time. Nobody picks up the guitar and thinks I want to play because of Prince, or play likePrince. EVH taught an entire generation how to play and all of them attempted to copy him and still can't figure out the chords or the fingerings, it's funny as hell. YouTube is filled with vids of people playing their version of his solos and rhtym parts but hardly anyof them get it right and they're pretty decent players themselves, it's just an advanced level. You honestly think Prince could play the solo in "Hot For Teacher", or even the rhythm part?

Next you'll answer me about style and interpretation, fine, you prefer the way P plays, but that doesn't make him a better player. You have your opinion, I understand, but you cannot even compare the 2 on any level of that instrument. EVH is a virtuoso and recognied genius of the guitar, planet earth knows this. He changed the entire way the guitar is played. Prince has never even been nominated in guitar magaine or any other serious publication about the nstrument for their awards, he's way down on the last, friend. No need to be upset.

I saw Van Halen 2 years ago and I dare say Eddie's even faster now. Check out the track "China Town" off their last disc then pick your jaw up from the floor when it ends. Prince would need years just to figure out the notes of the intro.

As far as playing clean, that's where Eddie's even meaner, listen to "Spanish Fly" on VH II then get back to me. There are more notes and chord changesin that one song than the entire Purple Rain album's songs combined and it clocks in at like a minute and a half!

In sum, you'd likewise call me crazy if I said DLR was a better singer than Prince, and you'd be right. P's a far superior singer in tone, technique, ability, etc. than my boy Diamond Dave, and that's a fact, but I love 'em both, it'snot a competition but this is serious music talk and most Prince fans don't play an instrument and think the man's Mozart or Beethoven. I assue you he is not even close. He is an accomplished figure in the world of Popular Music but nothing more. No classical composer is fawning over the works of Prince wishing to turn his music into a symphonic event. In the end, it's just simple music...

I, like you, am a huge Van Halen fan. I have all their albums up to when DLR departed and I haven't gave the group a serious listen since then. I tried with Hagar, but he just didn't do it for me. I just don't think you're giving Prince enough credit. Believe me I know Eddie is a monster on the ax but I think that Prince could play some of what Eddie does as Prince is a well versed musician. I don't think it would take long for Prince to figure out chord progressions and changes at all. This is what he and Eddie do. Could it be that Prince plays more R&B and Funk, you never really saw him actually get loose and rip shit up? I'd like to hear EVH play some Funk. It might tell a different story.

__________________________________________________
2 words falling between the drops and the moans of his condition
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Page 1 of 5 12345>
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Prince: Music and More > Prince/Van Halen connections