I was listening to the "For You" and "Prince" albums back to back and I marvel that 1) Prince has been a recording artist for 37 years 2) he outlasted many of his contemporaries (Rick James, Michael Jackson, Roger Troutman) 3) he produced, composed, arranged and performed much of the music by himself with little help from other musicians. He got himself out of label debt by delivering a top 20 hit with "I Wanna Be Your Lover" after he nearly exceeded the budget for his first 3 albums. The second album has tighter grooves, better songwriting, harmonies and melodies than the first album, I think his '70s albums stack up well versus some killer competition.

Earth Wind And Fire

Parliament

Funkadelic

Bootsy Collins

Rick James

Rufus

Dexter Wansel

The Jacksons

Michael Jackson

Graham Central Station

Chuck Brown

Chic

The Isley Brothers etc

"For You" and "Prince" are both excellent albums imo., sounds kind of inspired by Stevie Wonder..(?)

Impact:

I think "I Wanna Be Your Lover" was Prince's first hit in the US Top 20, (like you wrote yourself).

But it wasn't until "1999" that Prince had his major breakthrough, in late 1982. Afaik.

interestingly,Prince's debut album was released around the same time that Rick James released his debut album (April 1978).I remember hearing "You and I" and "Mary Jane" all over the radio that summer,but I didn't hear too much from Prince's album on the radio.

Ok,back to the question I think Prince's second album holds up well when you compare it to the other R&B albums that also came out in 1979.MJ's Off The Wall gave it alot of competition,though.

"I AM" by Earth Wind And Fire and "Off The Wall" by Michael Jackson both had killer songwriting, musicianship and engineering that became the standard bearer for Black music in 1979. Listening to the second album, the sonic quality was just as good as the aforementioned albums. When "I Wanna Be Your Lover" hit number one on the Billboard Soul Chart in December 1979, "Rock With You" by MJ was in the top 10, which occupied the spot the following month. The second album rode the Top 200 sharing space with Rick James, Chic, EWF and the like. It was like Prince's "get off the mat" moment after failing in the eyes of WB execs who entrusted Prince to produce himself.

"Soft And Wet" although I love the song, seemed to cutesy compared to what record buyers were into. You really had to be good to make it in the marketplace. Oh, how times have changed.

Albums like Destiny, Off The Wall and Triumph trounce all of Prince's pre-1999 albums.

[Edited 1/17/15 4:49am]

Rick's first two albums destroy Prince's first two records.

The tables got turned a little bit later, of course. I'd say around Dirty Mind it was already pretty much a tie, although Prince already started to show an artistic vision that was entirely his own on that album and Rick sounded more mainstream.

novabrkr said:

Rick's first two albums destroy Prince's first two records.

The tables got turned a little bit later, of course. I'd say around Dirty Mind it was already pretty much a tie, although Prince already started to show an artistic vision that was entirely his own on that album and Rick sounded more mainstream.

Beside I Wanna Be Your Lover and I Feel For You. "Prince" was mostlly a Soft Rock kind of album. Really 1970's singer/songwriter "Time In A Bottle" sounding piece. For You was more adventurous challening R&B, Funk, Disco and Rock. Much more complete. Most of the senior artists at the time, had a more disciplined sound and ... I agree ... trounced these two efforts.

Quite well really. For You was quite lightweight next to most R and B, but 1978s big hit was the 1977 Saturday Fever Soundtrack and Rumours by Fleetwood Mac. Most of the Big stars like Bowie, Elton and other rock groups had a bad year with 1978. A Single guy and Bowie Live are terrible. Most funk and black music was still knocking about in spacesuits and disco beats.

.

Best album of 78 was probably Donna Summer's Live album, and Cest Chic.

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Prince in 1979 was among the top, as the album was very well done and sounded more original than most generic disco and funk releases of the year. Bowie had a half hearted return with Lodger and Elton released a terrible disco album. The best Rock Album of 1979 was the Wall by Pink Floyd, but it came out in late 1979 and really only hit in 1980 to 1982.For black music, Michael Jackson's off the Wall and the Donna Summer albums, Bad girld and on the Radio, were best of 1979. Secret life of Plants was crap in comparison.

.

So 1978 - Nah although the competition wasn't that strong

1979- Yeah with tougher competition, but even then Lover peaked at the beginning of 1980 and most territories only got the album at the beginning of 1980. The USA being the big exception.

[Edited 1/17/15 15:53pm]

novabrkr said:

Rick's first two albums destroy Prince's first two records.

I agree, and so did Off The Wall and other albums by the likes of Patrice Rushen. Prince's first 2 albums, however, sounded different from all those funk acts from the very beginning. It was still somewhat shy, unfocused, looking for itself, but those albums had a unique sound to them and, at the beginning, owed more to Stevie Wonder than to the danceable funk artists of the late 70's.

Prince's first two records are him finding his feet, and although there's obvious potential in them when you listen to them, and they both have a handful of truly great tracks, it's hard to stack them against what the seasoned pro's were doing by that time, like The Jacksons who had already been going for a decade by that time, or EW&F.

However, Dirty Mind showed that Prince was playing a whole different ball game to those acts. That record is sheer, unadulterated genius from start to finish IMO.

bashraka said:

I was listening to the "For You" and "Prince" albums back to back and I marvel that 1) Prince has been a recording artist for 37 years 2) he outlasted many of his contemporaries (Rick James, Michael Jackson, Roger Troutman) 3) he produced, composed, arranged and performed much of the music by himself with little help from other musicians. He got himself out of label debt by delivering a top 20 hit with "I Wanna Be Your Lover" after he nearly exceeded the budget for his first 3 albums. The second album has tighter grooves, better songwriting, harmonies and melodies than the first album, I think his '70s albums stack up well versus some killer competition.

Earth Wind And Fire

Parliament

Funkadelic

Bootsy Collins

Rick James

Rufus

Dexter Wansel

The Jacksons

Michael Jackson

Graham Central Station

Chuck Brown

Chic

The Isley Brothers etc

Are you limiting your list to solely Black/R&B artists or are we talking about all genres here? Van Halen's debut album simply destroys any record of that year and outsold most of these artists combined...

1978 was a great year because that's when the mighty Van Halen came onto the scene and obliterated the competition. Their debut album is 10 million plus at last count, 2 million in '78 alone, and they only sold more as time went on. Yet WB treated them like pariahs despite the fact that only them, Al Jarreau and Rod Stewart were the biggest selling acts on the label, and by that I mean platinum plus on every record. It's questionable if Prince ever made WB any money at all besides in '84, his catalogue has only reached around 80 million in sales. That's truly weak for a 'superstar' and an artist with 35 albums in the can.

I always liked "For You" and "Prince"..even back then. P was lableled the "next Stevie" back then and was targeted to all of young girls as a "cutesy teenage heartthrob" in "Right On" and "Teen Beat" magazines.

I dug the innocence and vibe of his first 2 records and some of the songs still hold up today. "Soft And Wet" was never played on radio out here at all. It wasn't until "Sexy Dancer" and "Lover" (long version) that I started hearing him get radio airplay.

I think his late 70's records fit in with what was going on at that time on R&B and pop radio.

ashynevermind said:

bashraka said:

I was listening to the "For You" and "Prince" albums back to back and I marvel that 1) Prince has been a recording artist for 37 years 2) he outlasted many of his contemporaries (Rick James, Michael Jackson, Roger Troutman) 3) he produced, composed, arranged and performed much of the music by himself with little help from other musicians. He got himself out of label debt by delivering a top 20 hit with "I Wanna Be Your Lover" after he nearly exceeded the budget for his first 3 albums. The second album has tighter grooves, better songwriting, harmonies and melodies than the first album, I think his '70s albums stack up well versus some killer competition.

Earth Wind And Fire

Parliament

Funkadelic

Bootsy Collins

Rick James

Rufus

Dexter Wansel

The Jacksons

Michael Jackson

Graham Central Station

Chuck Brown

Chic

The Isley Brothers etc

Are you limiting your list to solely Black/R&B artists or are we talking about all genres here? Van Halen's debut album simply destroys any record of that year and outsold most of these artists combined...

Not at all. I couldn't think of any albums outside of r&b/funk/jazz. That's what the thread is for, to give better perspective to this time in Prince's career relative to the marketplace of that era.

bashraka said:

ashynevermind said:

Are you limiting your list to solely Black/R&B artists or are we talking about all genres here? Van Halen's debut album simply destroys any record of that year and outsold most of these artists combined...

Not at all. I couldn't think of any albums outside of r&b/funk/jazz. That's what the thread is for, to give better perspective to this time in Prince's career relative to the marketplace of that era.

Got it, so again, Van Halen's debut sold 2 million in '78, and to date is over 10 million copies but they no longer certify sales. Same label as Prince but of course a vastly different style of music. P received no promotion from WB it seems but VH were consecutive platinum artists right out of the gate. Check out my blog on their similar career trajectories from '78-'84 exclusively and both achieved their biggest selling records in 1984. And aren't you forgetting Some Girls by the Stones in '78 and Rumors by Fleetwood Mac? That's February of '77 and by March it had already sold a staggering 13 million copies worldwide! It's now up to 45 million, just sayin'. Not to make this about sales but VH's sales stand at 80 million plus on 14 total albums whereas Prince has estimated 80 million plus from 35 albums, a pretty poor return indeed...

Then in '79 you get Pink Floyd's The Wall and Zeppelin's In Through The Out Door, both massive releases and successes.

I'm afraid Prince was a guppie in an ocean during those years...

[Edited 1/24/15 18:55pm]

Militant said:

Prince's first two records are him finding his feet, and although there's obvious potential in them when you listen to them, and they both have a handful of truly great tracks, it's hard to stack them against what the seasoned pro's were doing by that time, like The Jacksons who had already been going for a decade by that time, or EW&F.

However, Dirty Mind showed that Prince was playing a whole different ball game to those acts. That record is sheer, unadulterated genius from start to finish IMO.

Exactly my thoughts. Prince was an up-and-comer, just getting his feet wet during that time while the others listed had all been in the game for years already.

In that sense they aren't really his contemporaries.

That he managed to distinquish himself at a time when every act out there was bringing their A-game is noteworthy, as you suggest.

ashynevermind said:

bashraka said:

Not at all. I couldn't think of any albums outside of r&b/funk/jazz. That's what the thread is for, to give better perspective to this time in Prince's career relative to the marketplace of that era.

Got it, so again, Van Halen's debut sold 2 million in '78, and to date is over 10 million copies but they no longer certify sales. Same label as Prince but of course a vastly different style of music. P received no promotion from WB it seems but VH were consecutive platinum artists right out of the gate. Check out my blog on their similar career trajectories from '78-'84 exclusively and both achieved their biggest selling records in 1984. And aren't you forgetting Some Girls by the Stones in '78 and Rumors by Fleetwood Mac? That's February of '77 and by March it had already sold a staggering 13 million copies worldwide! It's now up to 45 million, just sayin'. Not to make this about sales but VH's sales stand at 80 million plus on 14 total albums whereas Prince has estimated 80 million plus from 35 albums, a pretty poor return indeed...

Then in '79 you get Pink Floyd's The Wall and Zeppelin's In Through The Out Door, both massive releases and successes.

I'm afraid Prince was a guppie in an ocean during those years...

[Edited 1/24/15 18:55pm]

That's amazing that Van Halen sold that many albums during the zenith of disco culture from the music and movies. The reason I started the thread was because I can't envision anything like that in today's music industry. I'm discovering a lot of music from this era.

ashynevermind said:

Are you limiting your list to solely Black/R&B artists or are we talking about all genres here? Van Halen's debut album simply destroys any record of that year and outsold most of these artists combined...

...

Damn right! Van Halen owns 1978 with that debut album!!!

....

I'd also like to throw in Rush's 1978 album "Hemispheres." Their previous "2112" album saved their career, and "A Farewell to Kings" reinforced it, but with "Hemispheres" they achieved prog rock perfection.....so perfect that they knew they could never top it and so changed direction toward conquering a more radio friendly format, which they did in 1981 with "Moving Pictures." In fact, both Rush and Van Halen reached their peaks in 1981 (Van Halen with "Fair Warning") while Prince was still struggling with his weak albums "Dirty Mind" and "Controversy." Of course, Prince would crush them all flat in 1982 with "1999."

...

ashynevermind said:

1978 was a great year because that's when the mighty Van Halen came onto the scene and obliterated the competition. Their debut album is 10 million plus at last count, 2 million in '78 alone, and they only sold more as time went on. Yet WB treated them like pariahs despite the fact that only them, Al Jarreau and Rod Stewart were the biggest selling acts on the label, and by that I mean platinum plus on every record. It's questionable if Prince ever made WB any money at all besides in '84, his catalogue has only reached around 80 million in sales. That's truly weak for a 'superstar' and an artist with 35 albums in the can.

...

Well, it's true that a year out from the first album they owed Warner Brothers over a million dollars, but that was probably because they left the negotiating to their managment and were being charged for every expense. But once they realized the situation it was resolved because I'm sure WB didn't want to lose them to the competition.

....

But even before that I think WB knew what they had in VH. Record company head Mo Ostin and producer Ted Templeman saw them perform in an empty club and were so blown away that they were ready to do the deal immediately. WB didn't skimp on the budget for the photography and artwork for the first album (a courtesy most bands didn't get on their debuts). And their first four song sampler sent out to radio stations had a picture of Elmer Fudd hunting wabbits on it....when Warner Brothers puts the Looney Tunes stamp of approval on your promo record, then you know they believe in your project.

.....

But, you're probably correct because heavy rock was still an outlaw art form and Van Halen, at the time, were THE outlaw rock band of the land. Disco and easy listeneing FM were probably the name of the game at that time (probably country/western, too) so Van Halen probably wasn't seen as the "sure thing" that acts from those other popular genres were. Heavy rock was still kind of risky business.

....

I am going to go to England and toss in Elvis Costello to the mix. His debute, "My Aim is True" is simply outstanding. It was a bit ahead of it's time at that point, but I am willing to bet it has aged nicer than 98% of anything else released over that time period. Throw on "Watching the Detectives" and tell me if it was recorded in 1978 or 2014. Hard to do that with a lot of the great songs listed.