From the next week, Billboard is going to count sales from streaming services such as sPOTIFY. Which means sales will be mixed with streaming, such as the singles.

I think it's a very bad move. they should have added instead the vinyl sales, which would have increase by at least by 3 % the sales.

Welcome to the Artificial Age ! And goodbye to Prince

They're not counting the vinyl sales?

I didn't know that.

novabrkr said:

They're not counting the vinyl sales?

I didn't know that.

Such a shame. The state of the album industry is not SUCH in a bad shape. Moreover, vinyl's price are higher than a CD, they should count it as double sale, instead of counting streaming.

They should continue the musicology example, and make CD's sold in concert count on charts. Instead They prefer counting albums sold for free. It's been ten years I say it's a fucking nonsense, lobby and all that.

RODSERLING said:

From the next week, Billboard is going to count sales from streaming services such as sPOTIFY. Which means sales will be mixed with streaming, such as the singles.

I think it's a very bad move. they should have added instead the vinyl sales, which would have increase by at least by 3 % the sales.

Welcome to the Artificial Age ! And goodbye to Prince

For someone who cares so much about sales, you'd think you'd have a better handle on them:

A) Vinyl sales are included.

B) The inclusion of streams will only see numbers go up, not down.

TwiliteKid said:

RODSERLING said:

From the next week, Billboard is going to count sales from streaming services such as sPOTIFY. Which means sales will be mixed with streaming, such as the singles.

I think it's a very bad move. they should have added instead the vinyl sales, which would have increase by at least by 3 % the sales.

Welcome to the Artificial Age ! And goodbye to Prince

For someone who cares so much about sales, you'd think you'd have a better handle on them:

A) Vinyl sales are included.

B) The inclusion of streams will only see numbers go up, not down.

Vinyl sales are included ? Since when ? Do you have a link please ?

Numbers will go up with streaming, only for artist who are "hyped". PINK FLOYD for instance wouldn't have been in the top ten.

OMG this thread is so alarmist.

Just enjoy the damn music. Or don't.

Jesus.

Milty2 said:

OMG this thread is so alarmist.

Just enjoy the damn music. Or don't.

Jesus.

People can't enjoy the music if Prince won't sell anything, then how will he get distributed...

All this complaining of people "obsessing" over sales is junk... You need to sell your music for an artist to be known period. I'm not saying more sales means the music is better, of course not, but people always look the other way when it comes to sales.

Without sales or exposure the world wouldn't know Prince.

This streaming included in the charts officially started the new era of music in the industry... It is bad for Prince because I have spotify, and he doesn't get many streams in general besides his old hits like When Doves Cry and etc... I hope this doesn't affect his future negatviely, or what's left of it...

feeluupp said:

Milty2 said:

OMG this thread is so alarmist.

Just enjoy the damn music. Or don't.

Jesus.

People can't enjoy the music if Prince won't sell anything, then how will he get distributed...

All this complaining of people "obsessing" over sales is junk... You need to sell your music for an artist to be known period. I'm not saying more sales means the music is better, of course not, but people always look the other way when it comes to sales.

Without sales or exposure the world wouldn't know Prince.

This streaming included in the charts officially started the new era of music in the industry... It is bad for Prince because I have spotify, and he doesn't get many streams in general besides his old hits like When Doves Cry and etc... I hope this doesn't affect his future negatviely, or what's left of it...

Sure it's great if Prince scores a #1 but I've paid very little attention to the chart placements of AOA and PE. I don't care. The albums are great and that's all that matters.

Prince will be just fine, streaming or no streaming. Sales or no sales. He's not going anywhere nor is his music. Let's just enjoy the ride.....if that's what you're here for.

[Edited 11/21/14 9:09am]

RODSERLING said:

TwiliteKid said:

For someone who cares so much about sales, you'd think you'd have a better handle on them:

A) Vinyl sales are included.

B) The inclusion of streams will only see numbers go up, not down.

Vinyl sales are included ? Since when ? Do you have a link please ?

Numbers will go up with streaming, only for artist who are "hyped". PINK FLOYD for instance wouldn't have been in the top ten.

I don't believe it's ever not been the case. I work for a company that runs artist websites, and we reports sales directly to SoundScan - including vinyl.

Here's a piece relating to the success of Jack White's latest: http://www.billboard.com/...les-record

As for the streaming/Pink Floyd: Including streams means that the charts will count sales AND streams. Therefore, everyone's numbers (including Pink Floyd) will go up. Chart positions may be affected, but that's a good thing, as the totals will more acurately reflect music consumption.

So if I go stream Batdance that counts as a "stream" which equates to a sale? Or is this purely albums? Either way all that can happen is bigger numbers all round.

The American charts have always baffled me. The way they tally the top 100 singles based off airplay seems like it was done purely to be maniplulated - but thats another conversation

Noodled24 said:

So if I go stream Batdance that counts as a "stream" which equates to a sale? Or is this purely albums? Either way all that can happen is bigger numbers all round.

The American charts have always baffled me. The way they tally the top 100 singles based off airplay seems like it was done purely to be maniplulated - but thats another conversation

If I remember reading the article correctly, 1500 streams equals one sale.

feeluupp said:

Noodled24 said:

So if I go stream Batdance that counts as a "stream" which equates to a sale? Or is this purely albums? Either way all that can happen is bigger numbers all round.

The American charts have always baffled me. The way they tally the top 100 singles based off airplay seems like it was done purely to be maniplulated - but thats another conversation

If I remember reading the article correctly, 1500 streams equals one sale.

Billboard has been a joke for awhile now. It is a skeleton of an old antiquated system that died years ago.

*eats popcorn* It's fine for Billboard to do this, because I don't have a record out.

Milty2 said:

feeluupp said:

People can't enjoy the music if Prince won't sell anything, then how will he get distributed...

All this complaining of people "obsessing" over sales is junk... You need to sell your music for an artist to be known period. I'm not saying more sales means the music is better, of course not, but people always look the other way when it comes to sales.

Without sales or exposure the world wouldn't know Prince.

This streaming included in the charts officially started the new era of music in the industry... It is bad for Prince because I have spotify, and he doesn't get many streams in general besides his old hits like When Doves Cry and etc... I hope this doesn't affect his future negatviely, or what's left of it...

Sure it's great if Prince scores a #1 but I've paid very little attention to the chart placements of AOA and PE. I don't care. The albums are great and that's all that matters.

Prince will be just fine, streaming or no streaming. Sales or no sales. He's not going anywhere nor is his music. Let's just enjoy the ride.....if that's what you're here for.

[Edited 11/21/14 9:09am]

Prince won't release a physical album anymore, that's what it means. So, enjoy your digital music on the future Prince's website.

TwiliteKid said:

RODSERLING said:

Vinyl sales are included ? Since when ? Do you have a link please ?

Numbers will go up with streaming, only for artist who are "hyped". PINK FLOYD for instance wouldn't have been in the top ten.

I don't believe it's ever not been the case. I work for a company that runs artist websites, and we reports sales directly to SoundScan - including vinyl.

Here's a piece relating to the success of Jack White's latest: http://www.billboard.com/...les-record

As for the streaming/Pink Floyd: Including streams means that the charts will count sales AND streams. Therefore, everyone's numbers (including Pink Floyd) will go up. Chart positions may be affected, but that's a good thing, as the totals will more acurately reflect music consumption.

IIRC, even in 2012, vinyl didn't make the charts. A separate chart was created around 2009. There was even a problem in the scanning, some vinyls weren't scanned to SS, so it wasn't relevant to count them on BB200. Thanks for the information anyway!

of course, everyone numbers will go up. But ranks for artists who sells a lot but doesn't get any airplay on streaming won't be on the top 20 anymore.

The top 40 now will be monopolized only by new artists.

And like I said, that's the end of Prince on top of the Billboard 200. If PE and AOA were released today, they wouldn't make the top 40.

RODSERLING said:

TwiliteKid said:

I don't believe it's ever not been the case. I work for a company that runs artist websites, and we reports sales directly to SoundScan - including vinyl.

Here's a piece relating to the success of Jack White's latest: http://www.billboard.com/...les-record

As for the streaming/Pink Floyd: Including streams means that the charts will count sales AND streams. Therefore, everyone's numbers (including Pink Floyd) will go up. Chart positions may be affected, but that's a good thing, as the totals will more acurately reflect music consumption.

IIRC, even in 2012, vinyl didn't make the charts. A separate chart was created around 2009. There was even a problem in the scanning, some vinyls weren't scanned to SS, so it wasn't relevant to count them on BB200. Thanks for the information anyway!

of course, everyone numbers will go up. But ranks for artists who sells a lot but doesn't get any airplay on streaming won't be on the top 20 anymore.

The top 40 now will be monopolized only by new artists.

And like I said, that's the end of Prince on top of the Billboard 200. If PE and AOA were released today, they wouldn't make the top 40.

Are you not serious or just not able to understand the change?

What is the purpouse of a thread called the end of Prince`s carreer on the billboart 200?

He is still selling records, his albums are available for streaming and although he does not have viewing numbers like todays top artists, he still has a lot of views there...

Just check spotify...

So he will chart on the billboard 200....no matter what change...

Does Billboard include radio or club dj spins too? Streaming doesn't seem much different, and somehow I can't see the agreements these services have translate into 1500 spins making the artist the same as a download off Itunes. Anyway, this is more of a referendum on Billboard. I'm more likely to stream a Prince song today than I am to buy it.

[Edited 11/24/14 1:08am]

linus4000 said:

RODSERLING said:

IIRC, even in 2012, vinyl didn't make the charts. A separate chart was created around 2009. There was even a problem in the scanning, some vinyls weren't scanned to SS, so it wasn't relevant to count them on BB200. Thanks for the information anyway!

of course, everyone numbers will go up. But ranks for artists who sells a lot but doesn't get any airplay on streaming won't be on the top 20 anymore.

The top 40 now will be monopolized only by new artists.

And like I said, that's the end of Prince on top of the Billboard 200. If PE and AOA were released today, they wouldn't make the top 40.

Are you not serious or just not able to understand the change?

What is the purpouse of a thread called the end of Prince`s carreer on the billboart 200?

He is still selling records, his albums are available for streaming and although he does not have viewing numbers like todays top artists, he still has a lot of views there...

Just check spotify...

So he will chart on the billboard 200....no matter what change...

I highly doubt that. We will see this week the effect it has on AOA, it will surely lose 50 ranks or something like that. And in two weeks it will be out of the top 200. With these rules, Prince can't be on the top 20 anymore. There are tons more of artists that every week are streamed a lot more than him. His internet policy has now met his boundaries.

RODSERLING said:

TwiliteKid said:

I don't believe it's ever not been the case. I work for a company that runs artist websites, and we reports sales directly to SoundScan - including vinyl.

Here's a piece relating to the success of Jack White's latest: http://www.billboard.com/...les-record

As for the streaming/Pink Floyd: Including streams means that the charts will count sales AND streams. Therefore, everyone's numbers (including Pink Floyd) will go up. Chart positions may be affected, but that's a good thing, as the totals will more acurately reflect music consumption.

IIRC, even in 2012, vinyl didn't make the charts. A separate chart was created around 2009. There was even a problem in the scanning, some vinyls weren't scanned to SS, so it wasn't relevant to count them on BB200. Thanks for the information anyway!

of course, everyone numbers will go up. But ranks for artists who sells a lot but doesn't get any airplay on streaming won't be on the top 20 anymore.

The top 40 now will be monopolized only by new artists.

And like I said, that's the end of Prince on top of the Billboard 200. If PE and AOA were released today, they wouldn't make the top 40.

The sepearte chart was created because vinyl sales had (and continue to) steadily gone up, but vinyl sales were included in the album chart prior to that.

RODSERLING said:

linus4000 said:

Are you not serious or just not able to understand the change?

What is the purpouse of a thread called the end of Prince`s carreer on the billboart 200?

He is still selling records, his albums are available for streaming and although he does not have viewing numbers like todays top artists, he still has a lot of views there...

Just check spotify...

So he will chart on the billboard 200....no matter what change...

I highly doubt that. We will see this week the effect it has on AOA, it will surely lose 50 ranks or something like that. And in two weeks it will be out of the top 200. With these rules, Prince can't be on the top 20 anymore. There are tons more of artists that every week are streamed a lot more than him. His internet policy has now met his boundaries.

His policies really shouldn't matter here: The new rules take into account legal streaming services, and Prince's music is present on those.

TwiliteKid said:

RODSERLING said:

I highly doubt that. We will see this week the effect it has on AOA, it will surely lose 50 ranks or something like that. And in two weeks it will be out of the top 200. With these rules, Prince can't be on the top 20 anymore. There are tons more of artists that every week are streamed a lot more than him. His internet policy has now met his boundaries.

His policies really shouldn't matter here: The new rules take into account legal streaming services, and Prince's music is present on those.

Prince is present into legal streaming services, but nobody listen to his music. The strongness of Prince sales-wise was his fanbase that usually give him strong sales the first week, making each time a "coup" commercial. This era is now over for him.

He would need a hit to be streamed massively, and that won't never happen again.

RODSERLING said:

TwiliteKid said:

His policies really shouldn't matter here: The new rules take into account legal streaming services, and Prince's music is present on those.

Prince is present into legal streaming services, but nobody listen to his music. The strongness of Prince sales-wise was his fanbase that usually give him strong sales the first week, making each time a "coup" commercial. This era is now over for him.

He would need a hit to be streamed massively, and that won't never happen again.

He has stuff on YOUTUBE now and some songs have views at 80k and 90k after a day or two.

The video the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is in the millions. Plenty of people outside of P base are interested in what he is doing. This guy sold 50k tickets at the Essence Fest back in July and gets a million dollars for concert apperences. I wish people on this board would stop thanking their opinion is the same as millions of others and look at the facts.

laurarichardson said:

RODSERLING said:

Prince is present into legal streaming services, but nobody listen to his music. The strongness of Prince sales-wise was his fanbase that usually give him strong sales the first week, making each time a "coup" commercial. This era is now over for him.

He would need a hit to be streamed massively, and that won't never happen again.

He has stuff on YOUTUBE now and some songs have views at 80k and 90k after a day or two.

The video the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is in the millions. Plenty of people outside of P base are interested in what he is doing. This guy sold 50k tickets at the Essence Fest back in July and gets a million dollars for concert apperences. I wish people on this board would stop thanking their opinion is the same as millions of others and look at the facts.

Are you ironizing lol ? How can you compare 90 k views with usually hundred of millions views for a song that is in the top 40 ? How could Prince compete with that on the charts ? That's impossible.

RODSERLING said:

From the next week, Billboard is going to count sales from streaming services such as sPOTIFY. Which means sales will be mixed with streaming, such as the singles.

I think it's a very bad move. they should have added instead the vinyl sales, which would have increase by at least by 3 % the sales.

Welcome to the Artificial Age ! And goodbye to Prince

Prince's career is over then can we shut this site down already?

RODSERLING said:

laurarichardson said:

He has stuff on YOUTUBE now and some songs have views at 80k and 90k after a day or two.

The video the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is in the millions. Plenty of people outside of P base are interested in what he is doing. This guy sold 50k tickets at the Essence Fest back in July and gets a million dollars for concert apperences. I wish people on this board would stop thanking their opinion is the same as millions of others and look at the facts.

Are you ironizing lol ? How can you compare 90 k views with usually hundred of millions views for a song that is in the top 40 ? How could Prince compete with that on the charts ? That's impossible.

Rod u talk to tough for being a Prince fan.

U probably seen one of my fights on PPV though... If only u all knew who I really am... HAHHAAA

Yes I am a Prince fan too.

[Edited 11/24/14 6:57am]

RODSERLING said:

TwiliteKid said:

His policies really shouldn't matter here: The new rules take into account legal streaming services, and Prince's music is present on those.

Prince is present into legal streaming services, but nobody listen to his music. The strongness of Prince sales-wise was his fanbase that usually give him strong sales the first week, making each time a "coup" commercial. This era is now over for him.

He would need a hit to be streamed massively, and that won't never happen again.

And is this a situation that unique because it's Prince or does it not apply to any artist who has a decades long career but doesn't continue to chart with every release(Stevie Wonder for example)? Prince's fanbase has been claiming he's dead, done and over on a Prince fansite for who knows how long. So let's make this yet another nail in Prince's coffin.

feeluupp said:

RODSERLING said:

Are you ironizing lol ? How can you compare 90 k views with usually hundred of millions views for a song that is in the top 40 ? How could Prince compete with that on the charts ? That's impossible.

Rod u talk to tough for being a Prince fan.

U probably seen one of my fights on PPV though... If only u all knew who I really am... HAHHAAA

Yes I am a Prince fan too.

[Edited 11/24/14 6:57am]

What is PPV ? If you knew who I am too !

HonestMan13 said:

RODSERLING said:

Prince is present into legal streaming services, but nobody listen to his music. The strongness of Prince sales-wise was his fanbase that usually give him strong sales the first week, making each time a "coup" commercial. This era is now over for him.

He would need a hit to be streamed massively, and that won't never happen again.

And is this a situation that unique because it's Prince or does it not apply to any artist who has a decades long career but doesn't continue to chart with every release(Stevie Wonder for example)? Prince's fanbase has been claiming he's dead, done and over on a Prince fansite for who knows how long. So let's make this yet another nail in Prince's coffin.

No, like I said of course it doesn't apply only to Prince. Every artist that charted high on album without a hit single ( you said Wonder, I said Pink Floyd, we could say Springsteen) won't be able to compete with this new policies. Because even listening to a certain number of tracks of the album a certain number of times (which is different than listening the album in its entirety, by the way) will count as a sale. So without a hit single, I wonder how could someone like Prince compete on charts.

RODSERLING said:

TwiliteKid said:

His policies really shouldn't matter here: The new rules take into account legal streaming services, and Prince's music is present on those.

Prince is present into legal streaming services, but nobody listen to his music. The strongness of Prince sales-wise was his fanbase that usually give him strong sales the first week, making each time a "coup" commercial. This era is now over for him.

He would need a hit to be streamed massively, and that won't never happen again.

How can you possibly know what people are listening to on these services?

RODSERLING said:

feeluupp said:

Rod u talk to tough for being a Prince fan.

U probably seen one of my fights on PPV though... If only u all knew who I really am... HAHHAAA

Yes I am a Prince fan too.

[Edited 11/24/14 6:57am]

What is PPV ? If you knew who I am too !

Just being funny with you.

[Edited 11/24/14 7:53am]