feeluupp said:

He deserves so much more...

He needs a manager.

He needs to listen to that manager under CONtract.

Prince only has himself to blame really (if indeed he thinks any blame is due). It is as if he deliberately goes against what his fans and the establishment want. I guess he always had rebelled against the norm, but in the 80s when he did it he was called an eccentric genius, unfortunately now when he does it he just comes accross as foolish.

Prince may well leave behind a legacy amongst those in the know, but new generations will never know who he was because there will be very little trace of him once he has gone. Nothing on the internet, albums out of print. Unless he has a plan for his music when he dies, it will all end up lost and when us fans are gone too, no one will even care.

Does Prince deserve more? Sure he does but unless he starts acting like he deserves more and opens up instead of closing down, he deserves what he gets really. I would like to see Prince stop being the persona he has created and just lighten up and open up. His fans are mainly in their 40s, he is in his 50s, so lets just stop with the superstar nonsense and strip it all back to the music, old and new. Alan Leeds was right, Prince should just put on a pair of jeans and a tshirt and jam.

Rebeljuice said:

Prince only has himself to blame really (if indeed he thinks any blame is due).

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Exactly. He's just spent two decades undermining his legacy. Simply not curating it properly is an utter disgrace; actively dismissing it in interviews (just read what he recently said about the PR remaster) is just criminal.

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Does Prince deserve more? Sure he does but unless he starts acting like he deserves more and opens up instead of closing down, he deserves what he gets really. I would like to see Prince stop being the persona he has created and just lighten up and open up. His fans are mainly in their 40s, he is in his 50s, so lets just stop with the superstar nonsense and strip it all back to the music, old and new. Alan Leeds was right, Prince should just put on a pair of jeans and a tshirt and jam.

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He should just shut up and stop whining. Show don't tell.

"Prince? The best? The Gold Experience.... better."... Prince at the world music awards.


I don't know why fans get so upset at other fans putting Prince's music down.

He's put his OWN music down...and, he's put down the good stuff while promoting

stuff that wasn't as good.

So why U2, Metallica, Sprigsteen, Madonna; Bon Jovi, Iron Maiden, Slayer, Elton John, Tina Turner and many others managed to stay huge and grow during 90's and beyond? Simple answer is that they toured the world many times over and at the same time were humble enought to evolve with rest of the world. Early 90's was economically tough like today and after many supertours of 1991-1993 ( U2 Zoo Tv, Madonna Blonde Ambition, GNR illusion tour, Metallica, Nowhere else to roam ) that took industry to new standards many acts were also playing festivals for the first time. Metallica is a fine example of this. They play summer festivals in Europe every year where they can reach new people and with Sonisphere they have in many cases made those festivals more like their own show. Elton John has been playing 150 shows a year for 40 years and even people at their 20's respect him nowadays. Many new acts like Rihanna have high profile in media but she has also done 4 arena tours in 6 years and played everywhere. Just like Bon Jovi during 80's, she isn't just hitting London, Paris and Stockholm but going to places like Gdynia, Sunderland, Montpellier, etc. and therefore reaching people who don't get to see all the big names all the time. Prince is playing only those places that are sure shots. Prince just went under raydars after 1995 and there just isn't people who are aware of him doing new music. Getting 2000 people to show up in London Hit & Run is a sad result. There is 100000 tourists in city every day and many acts that play 3000-5000 capacity Arenas in continental Europe can sell out 02 or even Wembley Stadium in London. Live is now more important than ever but even back in the 90's when prince started declining, succesful concerts were key to worldwide succes. Rage Aganst the Machine amazed European festival audiences 1991.1993 and by 1996 they were headlining every festival. What they and their fans did with Killing in the name hitting UK number one single during christmas 2009 ,17 years after the initial release was beyond insane and Prince would never get that kind of passionate following going on because he don't have generations of new fans that want to see him live for the first time. There are few but not enough to buy millions of records or fill stadiums. Long story short. All these old generation acts that manged to stay popular worked their asses off to become what they are today. Some bands know the importance of working better than others. The succes is earned it's not a gamble. Sometimes you can get big by accident but no one can stay there without hard work and Prince sure earned his succes and big hits but he just gave up working hard and this is the result. In these days U2 will announce that they tour with new concept 2015-16 and they will be all over the world. Do you think that Prince could ever do this again.

This like saying "I wish Ferrari's would outsell Honda's".

BartVanHemelen said:

He should just shut up and stop whining. Show don't tell.

I don't think Prince himself has been whining about that, has he? Just some fans who for some reason seem to think that kind of shite matters. Prince seems pretty pleased with his life and his piles of money. If he had been whining about it, the correct response would be:

Graycap23 said:

This like saying "I wish Ferrari's would outsell Honda's".

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No it isn't. Ferrari deliberately limit the amount of cars they produce.

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Also: are you seriously claiming that there is no way things have gone better in the past 20 years WRT Prince?

BartVanHemelen said:

Graycap23 said:

This like saying "I wish Ferrari's would outsell Honda's".

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No it isn't. Ferrari deliberately limit the amount of cars they produce.

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Also: are you seriously claiming that there is no way things have gone better in the past 20 years WRT Prince?

Let me say this to you for about the 20th time...............it is Prince's career and his choices.

Graycap23 said:

Let me say this to you for about the 20th time...............it is Prince's career and his choices.

You still defend his wise choices?

udo said:

Graycap23 said:

Let me say this to you for about the 20th time...............it is Prince's career and his choices.

You still defend his wise choices?

It isn't 4 me or anyone 2 defend.

Prince understood and understands how the game is played..............and he choose 2 do it another way. I am glad that he did, otherwise we would be looking at a career where there was an album release every 2 - 4 years, no bootlegs, and a repeat of Purple Rain 7 times over. Thank goodness Prince was smart enough NOT 2 go this route.

Lianachan said:

BartVanHemelen said:

He should just shut up and stop whining. Show don't tell.

I don't think Prince himself has been whining about that, has he? Just some fans who for some reason seem to think that kind of shite matters. Prince seems pretty pleased with his life and his piles of money. If he had been whining about it, the correct response would be:

Well he has sorta been whining about it since 1990 interviews

And I know this is a bit different but earlier this year or last year when he brought up not being able to get a 2nd chance at making movies

Graycap23 said:

udo said:

You still defend his wise choices?

It isn't 4 me or anyone 2 defend.

Prince understood and understands how the game is played.......

Like when he tried to release PlectrumElectrum and partied in London?

Like how well the PR remaster is handled?

Or the Montreux recordings? (multiple years)

(and those are only a few recent ones)

udo said:

Graycap23 said:

It isn't 4 me or anyone 2 defend.

Prince understood and understands how the game is played.......

Like when he tried to release PlectrumElectrum and partied in London?

Like how well the PR remaster is handled?

Or the Montreux recordings? (multiple years)

(and those are only a few recent ones)

Ohh lawrd..............u guys seem 2 know what Prince should be doing better than than he does.

How did he survive a 37 year career without u?

feeluupp said:

SquirrelMeat said:

I think he did a pretty good job of that himself.

Yes I think at the point of 1993, 1994 was the start of that weird period, honestly I hated that period including TGE. I just hate it. Hate everything the look, the antics, and the music was just average.

His last real hit was The Most Beautiful Girl, and by 95-99 Prince or TAFKAP was really just a a joke to the industry, every talk show every interview always adressed him as what to call him rather than talk about his musical genius and legacy he created... I'm so glad the mid 90's are done with and all those album are out of print.

It started way earlier than that. ATWIAD could've sold a lot more if it were promoted properly (maybe waited a bit longer after PR, had the music video for Raspberry Beret BEFORE releasing the album), and maybe had a slightly different track list. Parade wasn't built to be a huge seller. People have already touched on how severely underpromoted SOTT was. He lost a lot of steam (mainstream wise) in between Purple Rain and Batman.

At the end of the day it's his career and he can do (and has done) whatever he wants. Could he have been more financially successful and pop culture relevant? Sure. Could he have done so without making Purple Rain Pt. II or playing "the game" as some of his peers did? Not a doubt in my mind.

It's all hypothetical. Sure, to the average person he might not seem as big or important as MJ, Maddona, Bruce, or whoever, but to many he's still a inspiration living legend, icon, and genius. It can't be too bad when you can still sell out Madison Square Garden and other venues around the world. What more can you ask for? Well...besides some dvds and remasters

When you listen to songs like "Let's Pretend We're Married", "New Position" or "The Ballad Of Dorothy Parker" it's actually a bit of a wonder that his albums have sold millions. It's not the type of music you'd expect anyone that regularly hit TOP10 would make.

Oh, yeah, and let's cut the crap, his overall image choices got him a good amount of attention and probably boosted his sales to a certain degree, but they also set a limit to them. It was a double-edged sword in that sense.

I don't think Prince really has to regret anything about his 80s period. Maybe he made some mistakes marketing-wise, but he was still a millionaire at the end of the decade. His 90s records definitely deserve more recognition, but he did deliberately sabotage so many of his projects ("oh yeah, this is just a contract-filler, wait until you hear the next record...").

Prince does what he does. He's SO GOOD that in spite of what he does that doesnt serve him, he will be forever enigmatic and forever the one who no one can tame. This example makes me attack my life and my profession in a similar fashion and while sometimes he goes it alone, or is misunderstood...time cannot deny his genius nor his legend.

If he really needed to play the game harder, he would. He gets off on showing up when he feels like it and then bouncing when he feels like. He's the BOSS. Period. End of story.

MajesticOne89 said:

feeluupp said:

Yes I think at the point of 1993, 1994 was the start of that weird period, honestly I hated that period including TGE. I just hate it. Hate everything the look, the antics, and the music was just average.

His last real hit was The Most Beautiful Girl, and by 95-99 Prince or TAFKAP was really just a a joke to the industry, every talk show every interview always adressed him as what to call him rather than talk about his musical genius and legacy he created... I'm so glad the mid 90's are done with and all those album are out of print.

It started way earlier than that. ATWIAD could've sold a lot more if it were promoted properly (maybe waited a bit longer after PR, had the music video for Raspberry Beret BEFORE releasing the album), and maybe had a slightly different track list. Parade wasn't built to be a huge seller. People have already touched on how severely underpromoted SOTT was. He lost a lot of steam (mainstream wise) in between Purple Rain and Batman.

At the end of the day it's his career and he can do (and has done) whatever he wants. Could he have been more financially successful and pop culture relevant? Sure. Could he have done so without making Purple Rain Pt. II or playing "the game" as some of his peers did? Not a doubt in my mind.

It's all hypothetical. Sure, to the average person he might not seem as big or important as MJ, Maddona, Bruce, or whoever, but to many he's still a inspiration living legend, icon, and genius. It can't be too bad when you can still sell out Madison Square Garden and other venues around the world. What more can you ask for? Well...besides some dvds and remasters

Totally agree with you about ATWIAD. Good points. I think adding She´s Always In My Hair plus making some decent videos would´ve changed things dramatically. I never understood why so many fans think there´s such a huge difference in style between Purple Rain and ATWIAD...and even Prince said that they didn´t want to create a Purple Rain part II but I never felt that the two albums sounded drastically different in style. A different track list, some changes here and there and it would´ve fit in perfectly into that whole Purple Rain era.....not that I would´ve wanted him to repeat himself but to me, ATWIAD was a slightly slower version of the Purple Rain music, and not that different. Still one of my favorite Prince albums.

The perception of ATWIAD as "completely different" from PR has a lot to do with the first couple of tracks, I think. Had the first track been a more typical 80s funk rock track it would have changed the overall feel of the album a lot.

Not that I don't think the two albums are different, but as I've noted earlier, the production techniques employed on both records are surprisingly similar if you listen to the records with that aspect in your mind. It's interesting.

novabrkr said:

The perception of ATWIAD as "completely different" from PR has a lot to do with the first couple of tracks, I think. Had the first track been a more typical 80s funk rock track it would have changed the overall feel of the album a lot.

Not that I don't think the two albums are different, but as I've noted earlier, the production techniques employed on both records are surprisingly similar if you listen to the records with that aspect in your mind. It's interesting.

Good points, absolutely agree with you.

SquirrelMeat said:

Quality does not = sales.

Commercially, Prince failed where those others succeeded because they were willing to promote in a coherent and comprehensive manner.

I just made a huge topic on promotion and what Prince could really do...but just for the recent times. He and Warners fumbled and bumbled their way into ensuring that the best musician of our time wasn't the star he could have been. Sad. They were geniuses from 1978-1984 with a few bumps in the road. From 1985-1990 they still had some awesome moments, really awesome music, but the promotion and release decisions were off the charts horrible. An SOTT album as the follow up to Purple Rain with "Kiss," and maybe "Raspberry Beret" would have been huge. Fans would have been starving for a new album, and sales would've gone nuts. Instead, by the time SOTT came out, only the die hards cared. The casual fan thought ATWIAD was a bit weird, Parade was a total WTF other than Kiss, and that movie...that awful movie...which I love, but we all know deep down inside, it should have been a direct to video release thing put out in 1987 as an afterthought to SOTT. A 1987 SOTT WORLD tour with 70 or more US shows would've brought record attendance, and all kinds of critical acclaim...but nope.

[Edited 11/14/14 17:10pm]

feeluupp said:

He deserves so much more...

When you look at artists like Madonna, U2, Janet Jackson, Bruce Springstein... They always "accomplish" more in terms of sales, grammy's, etc...

How can Sign O' The Times just sell 1 million in USA

How can Prince just have 7 Grammys while U2 has 22.

What went wrong?

[Edited 11/13/14 11:38am]

Old news. But I have to correct you. SOTT sold 500,000 in the US. The RIAA counted Double albums as 2 units. As I've stated a million times, with SOTT being a follow up to Purple Rain, 3 years after the hype died down...the public would have been starved for it...and "Kiss" followed by "U Got The Look" as singles would have made it the best selling double album ever...but he oversaturated the market.

U2 played it safe when necessary, and took risks when it felt right. U2 most of the time, and Michael Jackson all of the time waited years between album releases. Janet Jackson waited 3-4 years or so between album releases from her heyday of 1986-1997. And from 1986-2001, U2, Michael, and Janet all far outsold Prince. Making the public hungry for your product was a great strategy, and worked.

I'll use the Chinese Buffet analogy. The Super Buffet with 300 items loaded with MSG has 300 lousy items, maybe 4 or 5 somewhat passable. The little buffet with 30 items may have 10 bad ones, but it usually has 10 great ones, and 10 good ones. Critics just had tons of Prince albums to go through, and it's a crime an album as good as Lovesexy was a bomb. But that's what it is. Bad marketing, bad release strategies, and an oversaturated market...and watch U2, Janet, Michael, and Madonna get all the hype.

I honestly don't think that Prince really cares about his legacy.He's made many career mistakes,but I get the feeling that he doesn't care,one way or the other

feeluupp said:

He deserves so much more...

When you look at artists like Madonna, U2, Janet Jackson, Bruce Springstein... They always "accomplish" more in terms of sales, grammy's, etc...

How can Sign O' The Times just sell 1 million in USA

How can Prince just have 7 Grammys while U2 has 22.

I think after Purple Rain where he achieved super stardom and selling over 21 million albums worldwide, his genius took over him and just as an artist in the purest form couldn't keep from recording more... Where as most artists have a mega hit they will wait a couple years and the next album will sell mega well... But Prince always did things his way. It's a shame though cause his music should have garnered so much more success.

With the expection of Purple Rain 21m and Batman 11m he never achieved the commercial recognition he deserves.

Musically there's no denyting he is one of the besst of all time, I just wish his art was granted more success.

What went wrong?

I think that,after Purple Rain,Prince tried to do too much,too soon.He was like a kid in a candy store He changed his sound,started doing more movies,producing lots of other artists,opened up Paisley Park Studio,releasing albums in rapid succession.The mainstream audience had a hard time keeping up with him.I always thought it was a shame the way he lost that 'Purple Rain' audience so soon,but I guess he wanted it that way.

SoulAlive said:

I think that,after Purple Rain,Prince tried to do too much,too soon.He was like a kid in a candy store He changed his sound,started doing more movies,producing lots of other artists,opened up Paisley Park Studio,releasing albums in rapid succession.The mainstream audience had a hard time keeping up with him.I always thought it was a shame the way he lost that 'Purple Rain' audience so soon,but I guess he wanted it that way.

He really had no clue. He was such a fountain of great material, he didn't know what to do with it all, but after watching sales decline year after year, he finally fell prey to a disease that affects most artists: He has NO IDEA what a good song is compared to a LOUSY song.

For someone to actually release Jughead, Daddy Pop, Graffiti Bridge(title track), The Flow, and Pope....

while Moonbeam Levels, Old Friends 4 Sale(Original), Witness 4 The Prosecution, Data Bank(Original Prince version), Wonderful Ass, etc....all remain unreleased

This simply shows he has no clue. It's like if U2 had decided to leave "With Or Without You" off of The Joshua Tree, and put "Race Against Time" (Uneventful B-Side) on there instead.

But no, U2 hardly ever make mistakes with what songs to release. Now, not having anywhere near as many great songs as Prince makes it easy, but U2 hardly ever keep great tracks off of their albums. "Mercy" is about one of the few examples of where they failed...not putting that on their Atomic Bomb album, and instead putting a few weaker tracks on.

Graycap23 said:

I am glad that he did, otherwise we would be looking at a career where there was an album release every 2 - 4 years, no bootlegs, and a repeat of Purple Rain 7 times over. Thank goodness Prince was smart enough NOT 2 go this route.

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Utter nonsense. Hell, this is just a pathetic strawman argument. No one said he should do any of that.

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I repeat my question: are you seriously claiming that there is no way things have gone better in the past 20 years WRT Prince?

Graycap23 said:

How did he survive a 37 year career without u?

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Again: are you seriously claiming that there is no way things have gone better in the past 20 years WRT Prince?

stillwaiting said:

He and Warners fumbled and bumbled their way into ensuring that the best musician of our time wasn't the star he could have been. Sad. They were geniuses from 1978-1984 with a few bumps in the road. From 1985-1990 they still had some awesome moments, really awesome music, but the promotion and release decisions were off the charts horrible.

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You can't blame WB for that. That's the time Prince became unmanagable. What were WB supposed to do if Prince didn't wanna tour? They gave him massive leeway and still he bitched and complained and felt oppressed.

BartVanHemelen said:

stillwaiting said:

He and Warners fumbled and bumbled their way into ensuring that the best musician of our time wasn't the star he could have been. Sad. They were geniuses from 1978-1984 with a few bumps in the road. From 1985-1990 they still had some awesome moments, really awesome music, but the promotion and release decisions were off the charts horrible.

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You can't blame WB for that. That's the time Prince became unmanagable. What were WB supposed to do if Prince didn't wanna tour? They gave him massive leeway and still he bitched and complained and felt oppressed.

Bart answer this one question.

Why are you a Prince fan?