Alexandernvrmind said:

emesem said:

Just thinking that this is topic of discussion is very sad. There was a time when you couldnt separate Prince's "R&B" from Prince's "Rock." The fact that now you can almost always instantly spot what style he's doing says alot.

Absurd Housequake, the Cross, Doves Cry, Little, Red Corvette, I Could Never Take the Place, Head. Clearly all songs that fit nice and tight into a specific genera Stop with the foolishness

going to have to disagree on that one,

Alexandernvrmind said:

It's not just the last couple of weeks... p has a ton of rock fans and they consistently dissed his R&B music on this site. Not all obviously but many if them. I mean people on this site loved and I mean loved A Million Days from musicology LMBO. That tells you everything

Well, I love A Million days. And Musicology, Illusion Coma and Dear Mr Man, where does that categorise me?

well it's not like everyone around here has been going nuts for his pop-rock output lately either. RnR Love Affair, Cause & Effect, FULU, PBL.... none of them have gotten great reception here (or anywhere) upon release. I suppose Screwdriver probably fared the best.

Most of those and most of the R&B tracks from the last year and a half suffer from the same thing: there's no spark, no fire. He's previewed his new album (Art Official Age) with 4 songs now, and all 4 of them are mid-tempo R&B ballads or come-ons, 3 of them with very similar beats that sort of plod and meander. Individually, they're all fine. But altogether, that's almost 1/3 of the album heard and there's a sameness to most of it. They're all fine on their own terms, but taken together as 1/3 of his first album in 4 years, they hardly add up to anything too impressive.

Askani said:

well it's not like everyone around here has been going nuts for his pop-rock output lately either. RnR Love Affair, Cause & Effect, FULU, PBL.... none of them have gotten great reception here (or anywhere) upon release. I suppose Screwdriver probably fared the best.

Most of those and most of the R&B tracks from the last year and a half suffer from the same thing: there's no spark, no fire. He's previewed his new album (Art Official Age) with 4 songs now, and all 4 of them are mid-tempo R&B ballads or come-ons, 3 of them with very similar beats that sort of plod and meander. Individually, they're all fine. But altogether, that's almost 1/3 of the album heard and there's a sameness to most of it. They're all fine on their own terms, but taken together as 1/3 of his first album in 4 years, they hardly add up to anything too impressive.

thanks for bringing this up. True statement

If the same people who diss u know are not the exact same people who praise whitecaps then the premise of this thread is flawed. Unless those same people are saying they don't like the music because it is r&b, then the thread is also flawed.

If prince is going to sell these songs and these albums no matter what the naysayers say on this site why do some of you care so much about what they say?

people are bigging up "whitecaps"?

/

[Edited 9/2/14 15:06pm]

SquirrelMeat said:

Uh...ok. If you say so. It is a funk song with guitar riffs I think it fits nicely in funk/R&B.

Stymie said:

Genesia said:

It is sand-poundingly stupid to accuse people who dislike one song of hating an entire genre.

Plus we needed another thread complaining about complainers.

Don't you know? The anti-complainers are the annointed ones - in their own minds, at least.

Genesia said:

And Witecaps is a masterpiece Ohh I just love it

SquirrelMeat said:

Alexandernvrmind said:

emesem said: Absurd Housequake, the Cross, Doves Cry, Little, Red Corvette, I Could Never Take the Place, Head. Clearly all songs that fit nice and tight into a specific genera Stop with the foolishness

Its the inhability to fit When Doves Cry in a genre box that made it such a hit.

And also made it timeless.

Alexandernvrmind said:

Genesia said:

Don't you know? The anti-complainers are the annointed ones - in their own minds, at least.

And Witecaps is a masterpiece Ohh I just love it

Who ever said that? And who was talking to you?

murph said:

68686 said:

I'm just curious.

Could you define R&B?

Start with: Rhythm & Blues.

Ok.

What are the elements of R&B, in your personal opinion.

Not song titles, i'm talking about the genre.

Thanks!

Anything within the black tradition...usually with no filter....It could be a slow jam;it could be gospel influenced.... it could be something hip-hop influenced...it could be anything from Solar Records stuff to Miquel...to Mary J. Blige to even some of Justin Timberlake's music....

At times it's quality...other times it's quite rachet....There's good songs and bullshit songs just like any genre of music....But in order for folks to critique TODAY'S R&B they need to listen to more than just Chris Brown as they throw up their hands and declare that an entire genre of music is now crap because it doesn't fit into their cultural worldview and they are listening with OLD ears...

Murph, you kinda allright sometimes but this definition doesn't cut it...your definition is too broad. How are you gonna discuss a genre if you can't define it?

First, distinguish R&B from soul, funk, blues, gospel as well as myriad other distinct genres that exist within black music and then we can talk.

Don't give me no pre-packaged definition either...give a definition from a historical perspective.

babynoz said:

murph said:

Anything within the black tradition...usually with no filter....It could be a slow jam;it could be gospel influenced.... it could be something hip-hop influenced...it could be anything from Solar Records stuff to Miquel...to Mary J. Blige to even some of Justin Timberlake's music....

At times it's quality...other times it's quite rachet....There's good songs and bullshit songs just like any genre of music....But in order for folks to critique TODAY'S R&B they need to listen to more than just Chris Brown as they throw up their hands and declare that an entire genre of music is now crap because it doesn't fit into their cultural worldview and they are listening with OLD ears...

Murph, you kinda allright sometimes but this definition doesn't cut it...your definition is too broad. How are you gonna discuss a genre if you can't define it?

First, distinguish R&B from soul, funk, blues, gospel as well as myriad other distinct genres that exist within black music and then we can talk.

Don't give me no pre-packaged definition either...give a definition from a historical perspective.

I better get my rain poncho. If he tries to do that, his head will explode.

Alexandernvrmind said:

SquirrelMeat said:

Its the inhability to fit When Doves Cry in a genre box that made it such a hit.

Uh...ok. If you say so. It is a funk song with guitar riffs I think it fits nicely in funk/R&B.

Are you crazy?

It is NOT a funk song.

My God!

Genesia said:

babynoz said:

Murph, you kinda allright sometimes but this definition doesn't cut it...your definition is too broad. How are you gonna discuss a genre if you can't define it?

First, distinguish R&B from soul, funk, blues, gospel as well as myriad other distinct genres that exist within black music and then we can talk.

Don't give me no pre-packaged definition either...give a definition from a historical perspective.

I better get my rain poncho. If he tries to do that, his head will explode.

Imma sound very ageist but I don't care... The problem with these younglings trying to define something is a lack of perspective. That's the very reason why a lot of contemporary R&B from their generation does sound generic and unoriginal.

Prince however, is old enough to know better therefore people see it as a deliberate attempt to sound trendy.

Which is fine but why psychoanalyze people to within an inch of their lives for not liking it?

babynoz said:

Genesia said:

I better get my rain poncho. If he tries to do that, his head will explode.

Imma sound very ageist but I don't care... The problem with these younglings trying to define something is a lack of perspective. That's the very reason why a lot of contemporary R&B from their generation does sound generic and unoriginal.

Prince however, is old enough to know better therefore people see it as a deliberate attempt to sound trendy.

Which is fine but why psychoanalyze people to within an inch of their lives for not liking it?

Ummmm...because they lack perspective in that way, too?

Genesia said:

babynoz said:

Imma sound very ageist but I don't care... The problem with these younglings trying to define something is a lack of perspective. That's the very reason why a lot of contemporary R&B from their generation does sound generic and unoriginal.

Prince however, is old enough to know better therefore people see it as a deliberate attempt to sound trendy.

Which is fine but why psychoanalyze people to within an inch of their lives for not liking it?

Ummmm...because they lack perspective in that way, too?

Apparently.

Definitions of sound come and go and with the recent explosion in communications over the past decade or two we come to a unified yet rarified definition of ourselves, the Feedback Loop of infinite critique and machined perfection.

I imagine the hate of 'RnB' is a simple cataloguing distinction error - when Rhythm has been since the sun and moon hung around long enough for cuneform etchings to begin to appear 10,000 years ago, and still hung around for long enough to form the alert signal for passing trains, then to be span on wax by cantancerous string tensers to this day.

You have to come up with your own definition of blue at this point.

But mostly it's the twerking and the f*ck you attitude and the total absence of romance or harmony, so if you hate current RnB then you've totally missed that boat! And thank Christ for that - I don't need a robot punching me repeatedly in the brain to tell me tonight is a good night!

Cx

[Edited 9/2/14 15:17pm]

mrsquirrel said:

Definitions of sound come and go and with the recent explosion in communications over the past decade or two we come to a unified yet rarified definition of ourselves, the Feedback Loop of infinite critique and machined perfection.

I imagine the hate of 'RnB' is a simple cataloguing distinction error - when Rhythm has been since the sun and moon hung around long enough for cuneform etchings to begin to appear 10,000 years ago, and still hung around for long enough to form the alert signal for passing trains, then to be span on wax by cantancerous string tensers to this day.

You have to come up with your own definition of blue at this point.

But mostly it's the twerking and the f*ck you attitude and the total absence of romance or harmony, so if you hate current RnB then you've totally missed that boat! And thank Christ for that - I don't need a robot punching me repeatedly in the brain to tell me tonight is a good night!

Cx

[Edited 9/2/14 15:17pm]

damn, walked straight into that one

yet another thread hating on the haters

BOOOOOOOOOORING!!!

OldFriends4Sale said:

emesem said:

Just thinking that this is topic of discussion is very sad. There was a time when you couldnt separate Prince's "R&B" from Prince's "Rock." The fact that now you can almost always instantly spot what style he's doing says alot.

wow, this is true, I was thinking the same before.

There was a time when Prince music stood out, could not easily fit into any catagory

babynoz said:

I agree."When Doves Cry" is pure pop.Nothing on Purple Rain could be considered "funk".

babynoz said:

Oh Lord... You folks are a bunch of goofs

SoulAlive said:

Lol yep... Absolutely nuts LMBO.

There is absolutely a large section of Prince's fanbase that prefers him to make rock rather than R&B. I've definitely noticed that to be true.

However, they'll tolerate R&B when it's in more of a "classic R&B" vein - ie, something steeped in pre-hip-hop styles. It's when Prince makes something in a contemporary R&B style that this contingency don't like it. You see it time and time again. I remember seeing it when "Black Sweat" dropped, and lo and behold, it crossed over more so than anything else Prince had done around that time frame.

I don't think this whole shpiel about so called "youngins" liking it because they lack perspective is correct, either. I think it's simply that the people who don't like it, largely don't listen to that type of music. So perhaps they are the ones who lack perspective.

I'd be interested to know if any of the people who don't like it had ever listened to Mila J before. Because I've been up on her for quite some time. Or, if they've ever heard anything by her sister, Jhene Aiko, who is incredibly popular right now. Or listened to a Drake record, or anything by The Weeknd.

These artists are all part of a new subgenre of R&B that's half-ironically known as "PBR&B" due to a large hipster fanbase. It's the current flavor of R&B that's popular right now. Interestingly, it's been described by African-American news website "The Grio" as
:

[A] lot of the production is echo-laden and lofty, often using a lot of synthesizers and filtered drums—sonically giving a nod to Prince's vintage '80s sound. Additionally, for the most part, it doesn't feel as if these artists are selling sex as their main entrée. Granted, they still sing about the topic, and in explicit detail, but it's in equal proportion to drugs, spirituality and personal philosophies. You don’t get that same diversity in subject matter from the majority of modern R&B singers.^[15]

Now, you know damn well that a new flavor of R&B that's popping right now, isn't going to pass Prince by. My man stays on top of the changes in sounds. ESPECIALLY when it's a sound that's largely influenced by him in the first place.

So, this track is a nod to that. The same way "Black Sweat" was a nod to Timbaland and The Neptunes who had openly acknowledged that their sparse, drum-heavy grooves owed a debt to Prince as well.

It takes some people longer to get it than others. Some folks stay on top of the cutting edge of music and what's hot right now. Some people don't, so it's gonna sound foreign to them. But it'll grow on you, and in six months time the song will be viewed far more favourably by a lot of those people, and in a year's time, even more so.

This shit ain't R&B. It sounds like what's being played by other so-called artists on current R&B stations these days but it's not actual R&B unless the letters stand for "Rhythmless Bullshit". This bullshit, along with everything else on R&B radio these days, is shit hop and shit hop is even slower and duller than Lawrence Welk and Slim Whitman combined and it don't get no "whiter" than those two artists. So I sure don't hate today's R&B in general because it's black. I hate it because it's too white. And no, I don't like that "Whitecaps" mess either but it sounds downright funky compared to this rhytmless ass shit hop bullshit.

.

Actually, I don't plan on buying either one of the albums because from what I've heard so far, they both sound horrible with the exception of "Fixurelifup" and "Screwdriver" and I already have those two songs. And as for me preferring those rock tracks over this "R&B" bullshit, it was shit hop taking over R&B radio that made me even turn to rock in the first place. Before that, I was into R&B radio all the way and I was into Prince long before the pop/rock crowd even heard of him and my favorites were the funk tracks like "Head", "Let's Work", "Lady Cab Driver", "Sexy Dancer", "Irresistible Bitch", etc. Now, THAT's funk/R&B, not this stripped down "talking over a slow beat" bullshit right here that he just recorded that sounds like a bunch of "nothing".

.

If there happens to be an actual "jam" on the album, (and from what I've heard so far, there isn't), somebody will eventually end up sending me an mp3 of it but I'm not spending money to help him be successful at selling out because the majority of his sales come from the hardcore fans like us that buy his albums on the day of their release and I'm betting this album will be no exception. If he wants to sellout to that crowd, then I say let him depend solely on their purchases. He may get a few of the little thugged out Mousekateers to buy it but the majority of them see him as "that fag from the 1980s" so they wouldn't even buy it even if they actually liked it.

.

.

.

[Edited 9/2/14 16:56pm]

Militant said:

There is absolutely a large section of Prince's fanbase that prefers him to make rock rather than R&B. I've definitely noticed that to be true.

However, they'll tolerate R&B when it's in more of a "classic R&B" vein - ie, something steeped in pre-hip-hop styles. It's when Prince makes something in a contemporary R&B style that this contingency don't like it. You see it time and time again. I remember seeing it when "Black Sweat" dropped, and lo and behold, it crossed over more so than anything else Prince had done around that time frame.

I don't think this whole shpiel about so called "youngins" liking it because they lack perspective is correct, either. I think it's simply that the people who don't like it, largely don't listen to that type of music. So perhaps they are the ones who lack perspective.

I'd be interested to know if any of the people who don't like it had ever listened to Mila J before. Because I've been up on her for quite some time. Or, if they've ever heard anything by her sister, Jhene Aiko, who is incredibly popular right now. Or listened to a Drake record, or anything by The Weeknd.

These artists are all part of a new subgenre of R&B that's half-ironically known as "PBR&B" due to a large hipster fanbase. It's the current flavor of R&B that's popular right now. Interestingly, it's been described by African-American news website "The Grio" as
:

[A] lot of the production is echo-laden and lofty, often using a lot of synthesizers and filtered drums—sonically giving a nod to Prince's vintage '80s sound. Additionally, for the most part, it doesn't feel as if these artists are selling sex as their main entrée. Granted, they still sing about the topic, and in explicit detail, but it's in equal proportion to drugs, spirituality and personal philosophies. You don’t get that same diversity in subject matter from the majority of modern R&B singers.^[15]

Now, you know damn well that a new flavor of R&B that's popping right now, isn't going to pass Prince by. My man stays on top of the changes in sounds. ESPECIALLY when it's a sound that's largely influenced by him in the first place.

So, this track is a nod to that. The same way "Black Sweat" was a nod to Timbaland and The Neptunes who had openly acknowledged that their sparse, drum-heavy grooves owed a debt to Prince as well.

It takes some people longer to get it than others. Some folks stay on top of the cutting edge of music and what's hot right now. Some people don't, so it's gonna sound foreign to them. But it'll grow on you, and in six months time the song will be viewed far more favourably by a lot of those people, and in a year's time, even more so.

What I said was when the younglings attempt to "define" something...I didn't say anything about "liking", so don't get butt hurt about that.

You actually gave a much more coherent explanation than murph did when you put it in terms of contemporary vs more classic r&B so score one for you for understanding what it means to define something.

Indeed, the stylized version of contemporary r&b sounds so formulaic to a lot of people but the problem is when people begin to insist that they know the reason why somebody else may not like what they like. You're too opinionated in that regard. Sometimes people just like what they like and to start an entire thread to analyze why people have different musical taste is rather silly.

So you and murph can write an entire essay with explanations ad nauseum about people that you think don't "get it" but at the end of the day you can't force people to like something because you do....that's so 9th grade.

For the record, I love the whole 3121 album even more than many of his older albums....same with Lotusflower. I just happen not to like THIS particular song, if that's okay with you and murph or course.

vainandy said:

This shit ain't R&B. It sounds like what's being played by other so-called artists on current R&B stations these days but it's not actual R&B unless the letters stand for "Rhythmless Bullshit". This bullshit, along with everything else on R&B radio these days, is shit hop and shit hop is even slower and duller than Lawrence Welk and Slim Whitman combined and it don't get no "whiter" than those two artists. So I sure don't hate today's R&B in general because it's black. I hate it because it's too white. And no, I don't like that "Whitecaps" mess either but it sounds downright funky compared to this rhytmless ass shit hop bullshit.

.

Actually, I don't plan on buying either one of the albums because from what I've heard so far, they both sound horrible with the exception of "Fixurelifup" and "Screwdriver" and I already have those two songs. And as for me preferring those rock tracks over this "R&B" bullshit, it was shit hop taking over R&B radio that made me even turn to rock in the first place. Before that, I was into R&B radio all the way and I was into Prince long before the pop/rock crowd even heard of him and my favorites were the funk tracks like "Head", "Let's Work", "Lady Cab Driver", "Sexy Dancer", "Irresistible Bitch", etc. Now, THAT's funk/R&B, not this stripped down "talking over a slow beat" bullshit right here that he just recorded that sounds like a bunch of "nothing".

.

If there happens to be an actual "jam" on the album, (and from what I've heard so far, there isn't), somebody will eventually end up sending me an mp3 of it but I'm not spending money to help him be successful at selling out because the majority of his sales come from the hardcore fans like us that buy his albums on the day of their release and I'm betting this album will be no exception. If he wants to sellout to that crowd, then I say let him depend solely on their purchases. He may get a few of the little thugged out Mousekateers to buy it but the majority of them see him as "that fag from the 1980s" so they wouldn't even buy it even if they actually liked it.

.

.

.

[Edited 9/2/14 16:56pm]

Oh shit!

babynoz said:

Militant said:

There is absolutely a large section of Prince's fanbase that prefers him to make rock rather than R&B. I've definitely noticed that to be true.

However, they'll tolerate R&B when it's in more of a "classic R&B" vein - ie, something steeped in pre-hip-hop styles. It's when Prince makes something in a contemporary R&B style that this contingency don't like it. You see it time and time again. I remember seeing it when "Black Sweat" dropped, and lo and behold, it crossed over more so than anything else Prince had done around that time frame.

I don't think this whole shpiel about so called "youngins" liking it because they lack perspective is correct, either. I think it's simply that the people who don't like it, largely don't listen to that type of music. So perhaps they are the ones who lack perspective.

I'd be interested to know if any of the people who don't like it had ever listened to Mila J before. Because I've been up on her for quite some time. Or, if they've ever heard anything by her sister, Jhene Aiko, who is incredibly popular right now. Or listened to a Drake record, or anything by The Weeknd.

These artists are all part of a new subgenre of R&B that's half-ironically known as "PBR&B" due to a large hipster fanbase. It's the current flavor of R&B that's popular right now. Interestingly, it's been described by African-American news website "The Grio" as
:

Now, you know damn well that a new flavor of R&B that's popping right now, isn't going to pass Prince by. My man stays on top of the changes in sounds. ESPECIALLY when it's a sound that's largely influenced by him in the first place.

So, this track is a nod to that. The same way "Black Sweat" was a nod to Timbaland and The Neptunes who had openly acknowledged that their sparse, drum-heavy grooves owed a debt to Prince as well.

It takes some people longer to get it than others. Some folks stay on top of the cutting edge of music and what's hot right now. Some people don't, so it's gonna sound foreign to them. But it'll grow on you, and in six months time the song will be viewed far more favourably by a lot of those people, and in a year's time, even more so.

What I said was when the younglings attempt to "define" something...I didn't say anything about "liking", so don't get butt hurt about that.

You actually gave a much more coherent explanation than murph did when you put it in terms of contemporary vs more classic r&B so score one for you for understanding what it means to define something.

Indeed, the stylized version of contemporary r&b sounds so formulaic to a lot of people but the problem is when people begin to insist that they know the reason why somebody else may not like what they like. You're too opinionated in that regard. Sometimes people just like what they like and to start an entire thread to analyze why people have different musical taste is rather silly.

So you and murph can write an entire essay with explanations ad nauseum about people that you think don't "get it" but at the end of the day you can't force people to like something because you do....that's so 9th grade.

For the record, I love the whole 3121 album even more than many of his older albums....same with Lotusflower. I just happen not to like THIS particular song, if that's okay with you and murph or course.

Who's forcing anyone to like anything? Who is butt hurt about anything? I just questioned whether a lot of the people who dislike the song are familiar with the subgenre of music it comes from. If not, then it's doubtful that they'd like it. It's not what they are used to. But it'll probably grow on them