So I've been reading a lot of posts at the Org over the last few days...And the venom that has been thrown at "Clouds" and "U Know" has been perplexing.....

I've heard it all. That Prince is getting lazy by sampling Mila J for "U Know" when Prince has been sampling since ever since "Get Off"....

I've read about Prince "rapping..." When all all I hear is Prince SINGING in a rhyme cadence on "U Know"...

I've read about "Clouds" being uninspired R&B when these same folks are bigging up 3EG's "WHITECAPS," which while a pleasant song, sounds like something from a Canadian Christian Rock band....I'm still trying to figure that out...

I've read about how Warner Bros. will take a financial loss by releasing these upcoming Prince albums...But on the real, I no longer want to dignify that (as if WB didn't make the deal in the first place because Prince is A) a legacy WB act with real history and B) that they r going into this re-signing with dreams of catalogue reissues....

And as someone else has mentioned, the snide remarks about the man's Afro is also telling....I'm sure there are some folks who really don't like it....But others? There's something else going on...Nothing sinister mind u...Just some cultural piling on...

But really the ignorance I'm hearing when it comes to critiquing R&B/Black music is astounding....I've read about how Prince's voice distortion on "U Know" must mean he's biting Kanye West (??? like P is aping 'Ye's 808 & heartbreaks and T-Pain...) when really there's not much of an Auto-Tune sound to his vocals....

To older ears black music all sounds the same.....lol

I get it. U guys want your Princey from the '80s back. You want Wendy & Lisa to "save" Prince (whatever the fuck that means....lol)...U want eclectic Prince back...The dude that played with rock, funk, jazz, soul, and pop sounds and merged them brilliantly and genre jumped like a madman....

But Prince likes R&B too...He would record it without any other "white" influences...What the hell u think "Adore" was?....lol

If people don't like these two songs because they don't dig R&B that was made after 1990, then I get it. Some musical genres are not for everybody (hell, I'm not the biggest polka fan...And I also find some of today's R&B uninspiring...)...But the anti-R&B feel on this site needs to be examined and discussed....

Besides, Prince seems to be going for a fresh sound ON HIS OWN TERMS....I got no beef with that...This ain't "Jughead"...Hell it ain't "Incense & Candles," as both of those songs seemed like he was REACHING to be down....

I dig "Clouds" and "U Know"....But then again I don't mind hearing P on R&B radio.....

By the way, "U Know" is in the top 30 on Itunes and is no. 1 on the Itunes R&B charts (http://www.dealnay.com/107789543/u-know-prince.html)...Just more proof that the Org is in a bubble...

Rock on u crazy folks....I still got love for this place....

I'm just curious.

Could you define R&B?

Start with: Rhythm & Blues.

Ok.

What are the elements of R&B, in your personal opinion.

Not song titles, i'm talking about the genre.

Thanks!

It is sand-poundingly stupid to accuse people who dislike one song of hating an entire genre.

68686 said:

I'm just curious.

Could you define R&B?

Start with: Rhythm & Blues.

Ok.

What are the elements of R&B, in your personal opinion.

Not song titles, i'm talking about the genre.

Thanks!

Anything within the black tradition...usually with no filter....It could be a slow jam;it could be gospel influenced.... it could be something hip-hop influenced...it could be anything from Solar Records stuff to Miquel...to Mary J. Blige to even some of Justin Timberlake's music....

At times it's quality...other times it's quite rachet....There's good songs and bullshit songs just like any genre of music....But in order for folks to critique TODAY'S R&B they need to listen to more than just Chris Brown as they throw up their hands and declare that an entire genre of music is now crap because it doesn't fit into their cultural worldview and they are listening with OLD ears...

Genesia said:

It is sand-poundingly stupid to accuse people who dislike one song of hating an entire genre.

Nah...u r not reading the same posts I've been reading.....lol

When I read stuff like "why is he lowering himself to this R&B bullshit" how else am I and others supposed to take that?

This is a long runing debate within princefandome. Its not hate for R&B. Its hate of stale, dated, copycopy cat R&B as much as someone can hate the "faux-rock" prince often puts out.

If Prince looked to Cody Chessnutt or Van Hunt (shit I'd take Bruno Mars right now) instead of Joshua Welton, then people would be literally singing a different tune.

The main problem with Prince, probably going back to 1990 is that Prince has got really shitty taste when it comes to most contemporary music. The only decent contemporary music I've seen him align himself with is perhaps Nikka Costa way back in the 00's.

[Edited 9/2/14 11:37am]

Nobody here hates R'n'B, we're hating shitty R'n'B. And prince now puts out horrible mainstream-copycat-dreck.

emesem said:

This is a long runing debate within princefandome. Its not hate for R&B. Its hate of stale, dated, copycopy cat R&B as much as someone can hate the "faux-rock" prince often puts out.

If Prince looked to Cody Chessnutt or Van Hunt (shit I'd take Bruno Mars right now) instead of Joshua Welton, then people would be literally singing a different tune.

The main problem with Prince, probably going back to 1990 is that Prince has got really shitty taste when it comes to most contemporary music. The only decent contemporary music I've seen him align himself with is perhaps Nikka Costa way back in the 00's.

[Edited 9/2/14 11:37am]

Nah...I'm calling bullshit on this one...Prince doing "Incense & Candles" was Prince being "stale, dated, copycat.." ect....These two songs (Clouds and U Know) however doesn't sound like Prince trying to be down...It sounds like dude going for a fresh sound while doing the Prince Thing...

I'm sure there are folks that don't like those two new songs because they just don't like it...No harm no foul....

But when I read other folks tripping over themselves to praise "Whitecaps"and then shit on "U Know"....Well....

I'm slow at times, but I'm not THAT slow...

ludwig said:

Nobody here hates R'n'B, we're hating shitty R'n'B. And prince now puts out horrible mainstream-copycat-dreck.

Uh huh....MAINSTREAM is just about the most overused words here...It's a great shield for SOME folks who have no idea what modern R&B is....

murph said:

emesem said:

This is a long runing debate within princefandome. Its not hate for R&B. Its hate of stale, dated, copycopy cat R&B as much as someone can hate the "faux-rock" prince often puts out.

If Prince looked to Cody Chessnutt or Van Hunt (shit I'd take Bruno Mars right now) instead of Joshua Welton, then people would be literally singing a different tune.

The main problem with Prince, probably going back to 1990 is that Prince has got really shitty taste when it comes to most contemporary music. The only decent contemporary music I've seen him align himself with is perhaps Nikka Costa way back in the 00's.

[Edited 9/2/14 11:37am]

Nah...I'm calling bullshit on this one...Prince doing "Incense & Candles" was Prince being "stale, dated, copycat.." ect....These two songs (Clouds and U Know) however doesn't sound like Prince trying to be down...It sounds like dude going for a fresh sound while doing the Prince Thing...

I'm sure there are folks that don't like those two new songs because they just don't like it...No harm no foul....

But when I read other folks tripping over themselves to praise "Whitecaps"and then shit on "U Know"....Well....

I'm slow at times, but I'm not THAT slow...

So a person can't prefer one or the other without being a hater? You've stopped just short of calling people who don't like U Know racist. Are you sure you want to go there?

[Edited 9/2/14 12:01pm]

Could you please name 10 songs that are "today's R&B."

This is just to give me a feel of what we're talking about

Thanks!

Genesia said:

murph said:

Nah...I'm calling bullshit on this one...Prince doing "Incense & Candles" was Prince being "stale, dated, copycat.." ect....These two songs (Clouds and U Know) however doesn't sound like Prince trying to be down...It sounds like dude going for a fresh sound while doing the Prince Thing...

I'm sure there are folks that don't like those two new songs because they just don't like it...No harm no foul....

But when I read other folks tripping over themselves to praise "Whitecaps"and then shit on "U Know"....Well....

I'm slow at times, but I'm not THAT slow...

So a person can't prefer one or the other without being a hater? You've stopped just short of calling people who don't like U Know racist. Are you sure you want to go there?

[Edited 9/2/14 12:01pm]

Chill with the strawman shit...lol....U never read THAT R word on any of my post....But I do believe there's another R word going around: Rockist....

Alexandernvrmind said:

It's not just the last couple of weeks... p has a ton of rock fans and they consistently dissed his R&B music on this site. Not all obviously but many if them. I mean people on this site loved and I mean loved A Million Days from musicology LMBO. That tells you everything

I agree....But on another note I LOVED "A Million Days"....I think the way to judge it is play Org heads "WHITECAPS" and then "Clouds" ....If they go out of their way to praise or big up "WHITECAPS" over those other two new songs then u have to give them the side eye...

....I REALLY like my rock hyrbid Prince...I dig EVERY Prince chamber from For You to Parade....But "WHITECAPS" is OK at best And I'm being generous....

murph said:

Genesia said:

So a person can't prefer one or the other without being a hater? You've stopped just short of calling people who don't like U Know racist. Are you sure you want to go there?

[Edited 9/2/14 12:01pm]

Chill with the strawman shit...lol....U never read THAT R word on any of my post....But I do believe there's another R word going around: Rockist....

It isn't a straw man. You are the one who said things like "To older ears black music all sounds the same" - which is a play on "all black people look alike." In other words, you're accusing people who don't like U Know of being racist - and being ageist yourself.

Genesia said:

murph said:

Chill with the strawman shit...lol....U never read THAT R word on any of my post....But I do believe there's another R word going around: Rockist....

It isn't a straw man. You are the one who said things like "To older ears black music all sounds the same" - which is a play on "all black people look alike." In other words, you're accusing people who don't like U Know of being racist - and being ageist yourself.

Nah...u twisting yourself up, luv.....Unless Prince's entire fanbase is white on the Org then u would have a point....

There's a lot going on here...There are some folks that on good faith don't like "Clouds" and "U Know" because it's not their style...

There are OLD HEADS who think all of todays R&B sounds the same....The GET OFF MY LINE Contingent....

There are others still shackled by the past and won't ever let go of the the '80s...

There are others who think Prince needs to call W&L for help (lol...bullshit)...

There are those who like rock and have no use for today's R&B sounds....The ROCKISTS....

And then there are those who don't like their Princey to be too black and hate ANY type of R&B that came after 2000......

Which one do u fall under?

murph said:

Nah...I'm calling bullshit on this one...Prince doing "Incense & Candles" was Prince being "stale, dated, copycat.." ect....These two songs (Clouds and U Know) however doesn't sound like Prince trying to be down...It sounds like dude going for a fresh sound while doing the Prince Thing...

I'm sure there are folks that don't like those two new songs because they just don't like it...No harm no foul....

But when I read other folks tripping over themselves to praise "Whitecaps"and then shit on "U Know"....Well....

I'm slow at times, but I'm not THAT slow...

Idk, it think "Whitecaps" is equally as disliked (if not moreso).

U Know is def better than "Breakfast can wait" or "Incesne & Candles" but its still in that same line of songs that go way back to "Somebody's Somebody", and "Mr Happy" . Perhaps you cant call it "New Jack Swing" anymore but its def the sound of the 'old guy in da club". If thats the way Prince wants to go down, thats 100% his choice to make.

[Edited 9/2/14 13:21pm]

murph said:

murph said:

Just thinking that this is topic of discussion is very sad. There was a time when you couldnt separate Prince's "R&B" from Prince's "Rock." The fact that now you can almost always instantly spot what style he's doing says alot.

murph said:

emesem said:

This is a long runing debate within princefandome. Its not hate for R&B. Its hate of stale, dated, copycopy cat R&B as much as someone can hate the "faux-rock" prince often puts out.

If Prince looked to Cody Chessnutt or Van Hunt (shit I'd take Bruno Mars right now) instead of Joshua Welton, then people would be literally singing a different tune.

The main problem with Prince, probably going back to 1990 is that Prince has got really shitty taste when it comes to most contemporary music. The only decent contemporary music I've seen him align himself with is perhaps Nikka Costa way back in the 00's.

Nah...I'm calling bullshit on this one...Prince doing "Incense & Candles" was Prince being "stale, dated, copycat.." ect....These two songs (Clouds and U Know) however doesn't sound like Prince trying to be down...It sounds like dude going for a fresh sound while doing the Prince Thing...

I'm sure there are folks that don't like those two new songs because they just don't like it...No harm no foul....

But when I read other folks tripping over themselves to praise "Whitecaps"and then shit on "U Know"....Well....

I'm slow at times, but I'm not THAT slow...

Meaning?

Genesia said:

Yeah, man, I hate all black music! That is why I love MJ and of course Prince, who is half Spanish, half Jamaican, half Hawaiian and a quarter bi!

SquirrelMeat said:

murph said:

Nah...I'm calling bullshit on this one...Prince doing "Incense & Candles" was Prince being "stale, dated, copycat.." ect....These two songs (Clouds and U Know) however doesn't sound like Prince trying to be down...It sounds like dude going for a fresh sound while doing the Prince Thing...

I'm sure there are folks that don't like those two new songs because they just don't like it...No harm no foul....

But when I read other folks tripping over themselves to praise "Whitecaps"and then shit on "U Know"....Well....

I'm slow at times, but I'm not THAT slow...

Meaning?

Meaning it could be a few things.....

Either they are Rockist who believe that musical genre is superior to other artforms...usually R&B....

Either they are just old and don't want their Princey having any ounce of contemporary sheen...

Or they just hate R&B....

Or they just like "Whitecaps" because it reminds them of the Christian youth gatherings they use to attend as a kid....

murph said:

SquirrelMeat said:

Meaning?

Meaning it could be a few things.....

Either they are Rockist who believe that musical genre is superior to other artforms...usually R&B....

Either they are just old and don't want their Princey having any ounce of contemporary sheen...

Or they just hate R&B....

Or they just like "Whitecaps" because it reminds them of the Christian youth gatherings they use to attend as a kid....

I agree with you on whitecaps.

As for U know, it just sounds like someone trying to fresh, rather than being fresh.

I think the vast majority of Prince fans, by definition, like multiple genres more than other music fans.

emesem said:

emesem said:

Just thinking that this is topic of discussion is very sad. There was a time when you couldnt separate Prince's "R&B" from Prince's "Rock." The fact that now you can almost always instantly spot what style he's doing says alot.

wow, this is true, I was thinking the same before.

There was a time when Prince music stood out, could not easily fit into any catagory

Alexandernvrmind said:

It's not just the last couple of weeks... p has a ton of rock fans and they consistently dissed his R&B music on this site. Not all obviously but many if them. I mean people on this site loved and I mean loved A Million Days from musicology LMBO. That tells you everything

No, you're completely wrong. This is not (white) rock fans against (black) r'n'b fans. Not at all. This whole theory is absurd.

Alexandernvrmind said:

emesem said:

Just thinking that this is topic of discussion is very sad. There was a time when you couldnt separate Prince's "R&B" from Prince's "Rock." The fact that now you can almost always instantly spot what style he's doing says alot.

Absurd Housequake, the Cross, Doves Cry, Little, Red Corvette, I Could Never Take the Place, Head. Clearly all songs that fit nice and tight into a specific genera Stop with the foolishness

Its the inhability to fit When Doves Cry in a genre box that made it such a hit.

Stymie said:

Genesia said:

It is sand-poundingly stupid to accuse people who dislike one song of hating an entire genre.

Plus we needed another thread complaining about complainers.

Actually I should have started the thread this way....

This is now the Org: https://www.youtube.com/w...dE1IUUfSDU