BigChick said:

Any studio version of "Soulpsychodelicide". There's at least 2 versions where Prince threw everything but the kitchen sink into the track. Then the track was passed off to George Clinton for additional over production. There's just way too much going on. And the one sample that sounds like a straw moving up and down in a soda cup is so annoying .Cool title and concept but the execution of the song never lived up to the idea.

Big Chick

"Security Ensuring Thee"

Ahh, but the hour long rehearsal is the JAM!

mmart2008 said:

Replica said:

I don't really think it matters that much if he started working with his old bandmates again.

.

He wasn't talking about working with those guys again, he was talking about Prince not allowing that kind of input again, to a large degree by hiring people who won't challenge him.

SuperSoulFighter said:

fbueller said:

Prince could use a Rick Rubin... someone to offer constructive feedback. It's damn frustrating to see an artist of his caliber mostly treading water in the studio for years.

.

In a recent article for the Purple Rain 30th anniversary, Dr. Fink mentioned how the band came up with the groove that became Computer Blue. Dr. Fink played a keyboard line that inspired Prince to do the classic "wooh, wooh" vocals on the end of Purple Rain. Etc. Prince doesn't have that type of dynamic around him now.

How do you know? Maybe 3rdEyeGirl are inspiring him just as much. Whether or not we like the end result is up to us.

.

True, there is some influence there, but in the end they're not that strong. I can't shake this impression that back in the day the New Power Trio forced P to be on point, whereas 3EG are just too happy to be with P and thus don't give a peep when he stops promoting their record and they're back to the regular greatest hits sets.

Shawy89 said:

Songs you feel are oversung, in which there are some sequences that deal with many instruments that it makes it unbearable for another listen. Or funk songs that share a bad mix of audio effects....

.

Most of D&P (the album). Glossy, overtinkered, lifeless,... That album sounded stale on arrival.

The song Lovesexy. It's a terrific and catchy track that would work better if it wasn't that busy and a little more stripped down instead

BartVanHemelen said:

Replica said:

I don't really think it matters that much if he started working with his old bandmates again.

.

He wasn't talking about working with those guys again, he was talking about Prince not allowing that kind of input again, to a large degree by hiring people who won't challenge him.

bingo Bart.

BartVanHemelen said:

Shawy89 said:

Songs you feel are oversung, in which there are some sequences that deal with many instruments that it makes it unbearable for another listen. Or funk songs that share a bad mix of audio effects....

.

Most of D&P (the album). Glossy, overtinkered, lifeless,... That album sounded stale on arrival.

Yeah, that album is guilty on some tracks. It's definately glossy, but considering how rnb was at that time, some of it hold up OK. The title track sounds like something Narada Michael Walden would of done, which is a big plus for me, but it is overproduced LOL. "Daddy Pop" is an example where I don't like how overproduced it is. Same with "Live4love". What a weak mess that track is both melodically and production wise, a real dirge....

In general, I tend to like overproduced shit so Iam happy with the constant added keys, vocals, guitars and drum parts LOL. He gets it wrong sometimes though.

djThunderfunk said:

BigChick said:

Any studio version of "Soulpsychodelicide". There's at least 2 versions where Prince threw everything but the kitchen sink into the track. Then the track was passed off to George Clinton for additional over production. There's just way too much going on. And the one sample that sounds like a straw moving up and down in a soda cup is so annoying .Cool title and concept but the execution of the song never lived up to the idea.

Big Chick

"Security Ensuring Thee"

Ahh, but the hour long rehearsal is the JAM!

It is, but save the Soul Psychodelicide chant it's a totally different "song".

thesexofit said:

It's definately glossy, but considering how rnb was at that time, some of it hold up OK.

.

Some of it's aged better but even at the time, sounded way too glossy even compared to what r&b was like.

BartVanHemelen said:

SuperSoulFighter said:

fbueller said: How do you know? Maybe 3rdEyeGirl are inspiring him just as much. Whether or not we like the end result is up to us.

.

True, there is some influence there, but in the end they're not that strong. I can't shake this impression that back in the day the New Power Trio forced P to be on point, whereas 3EG are just too happy to be with P and thus don't give a peep when he stops promoting their record and they're back to the regular greatest hits sets.

Michael was a baby and in the same position really. Sonny was maybe different in the sense that IIRC he was a bit older than and reportedly a musician that looked up to in his youth but nonetheless Sonny was very professional and aware of the fact that he was merely an employee of a major superstar. I think the situation became really different with any musician hired after 1986, in the sense that all the people hired b4 PR could somehow still feel on an equal level with and entitled to challenge him, as demonstrated by how many of them gave a try at a solo career. After 1987 was a major star and it was just a gig, few challenged because they knew their job was on the line, or when they did it was either to leave the gig or in full knowledge of the risk (Miko, Cat, Koppleman, Levi and noticably virtually no one after 1994). Maybe the respect had for Sonny was a challenge in itself, though, IDK, but the New Power Trio (was this ever an official name BTW?) wasn't The Revolution.

databank said:

djThunderfunk said:

Ahh, but the hour long rehearsal is the JAM!

It is, but save the Soul Psychodelicide chant it's a totally different "song".

That's part of the reason I said "jam"...

As someone who loves and listens to all types of music of every kind. The main problem for me with prince's current music is that it became cringe-worthy starting in the 90's. Like I said, I love all types of music, but could never be caught dead listening to most of his newer music in public. I felt emabaressed for him. Just incredibly cheesy.

In the Purple Rain interview posted a couple of days ago with Wendy and Lisa, Wendy says that she always told him when something sounded like porn music. He doesn't have anyone posing constructive criticism anymore. That a Org minority LOVES his 90's and newer stuff is great, there has to be music for everyone, but he is only feeding a minority that loves cheese. These is more to music than cheese.

rick james called it "sterile" production

V10LETBLUES said:

As someone who loves and listens to all types of music of every kind. The main problem for me with prince's current music is that it became cringe-worthy starting in the 90's. Like I said, I love all types of music, but could never be caught dead listening to most of his newer music in public. I felt emabaressed for him. Just incredibly cheesy.

In the Purple Rain interview posted a couple of days ago with Wendy and Lisa, Wendy says that she always told him when something sounded like porn music. He doesn't have anyone posing constructive criticism anymore. That a Org minority LOVES his 90's and newer stuff is great, there has to be music for everyone, but he is only feeding a minority that loves cheese. These is more to music than cheese.

You should come here every day and complain about it. That'll help.

It's certainly healthier and easier than just finding another artist you actually like.

Yeah, great idea...

V10LETBLUES said:

As someone who loves and listens to all types of music of every kind. The main problem for me with prince's current music is that it became cringe-worthy starting in the 90's. Like I said, I love all types of music, but could never be caught dead listening to most of his newer music in public. I felt emabaressed for him. Just incredibly cheesy.

In the Purple Rain interview posted a couple of days ago with Wendy and Lisa, Wendy says that she always told him when something sounded like porn music. He doesn't have anyone posing constructive criticism anymore. That a Org minority LOVES his 90's and newer stuff is great, there has to be music for everyone, but he is only feeding a minority that loves cheese. These is more to music than cheese.

Whats wrong with porn music.1999 album is porn music and its amazing

thebanishedone said:

V10LETBLUES said:

As someone who loves and listens to all types of music of every kind. The main problem for me with prince's current music is that it became cringe-worthy starting in the 90's. Like I said, I love all types of music, but could never be caught dead listening to most of his newer music in public. I felt emabaressed for him. Just incredibly cheesy.

In the Purple Rain interview posted a couple of days ago with Wendy and Lisa, Wendy says that she always told him when something sounded like porn music. He doesn't have anyone posing constructive criticism anymore. That a Org minority LOVES his 90's and newer stuff is great, there has to be music for everyone, but he is only feeding a minority that loves cheese. These is more to music than cheese.

Whats wrong with porn music.1999 album is porn music and its amazing

Yes, sadly he lost his touch to make amazing music after 87. Remember, Lisa, Fink and the gang were still there at that point to keep him in check. Once he lost them it all went down hill fast.

[Edited 7/8/14 8:45am]

"Gold" was one of the most hyped but sugary overproduced songs. I like the barebones demo with natural drums of "New Power Generation". I like the original take with the raw vocals of "Elephants and Flowers" so much more. I wish he hadn't rerecorded that.

------------------------------

Prince is more a capable producer than anyone when he takes the time to properly bake a song. And when he isn't targeting the audience of The View and bringing out the Mark Tree wind chimes in the studio.

Rick Rubin never made anything as cool as "Joy in Repitition" or as unique as "3121" (which was the influence of the 90's power trio again. I'm fairly sure "Boom" also came from these sessions). I think the first 4 tracks of both Planet Earth and 20ten are quite interesting productions, and reference music styles and possibly even movie soundtracks in a way that is quite entertaining to me. I think what Rick Rubin is good at is minimal but strong production in the sense that the arrangements fit expectations and don't try to teach the pop audience new rules. Of course that's commercially strong.

PS... "Computer Blue" is some shitty production in my not so humble opinion. I've thought that since I first heard the album on cassette all the way till now. Thought it was lame in the movie too. The rendition of "Father's Song" in this song is weak sauce compared to the piano version played in the movie. It sounds as bad as the live guitar solo on the video for Madonna's "Dress You Up in My Love". I dislike the Prince songs that sound like a boring beat stuck on loop that is lazily riffed on with formulaic hard funk. It's very similar to my dislike for "America" on record. I wish "Computer Blue" had been flipped with a B-side like "Erotic City" or "17 Days" for album and movie inclusion. The David Bowie copycat blowjob part of the live performance seems simply that.

But... the bootleg extended version of Computer Blue does seem to elevate it into something quite cool by giving it a crescendo and place to reach. It's amazing what gold Prince cuts out or reworks into a weaker version sometimes.

good thread. idk what it is. i honestly think paisley park might be to blame as said before. everything has been either too polished or overproduced. he needs to just live in an in home studio or a new warehouse lol and record comepletly live with 3EG. he needs a rough/raw sound. he has plenty of hits so why is he still chasing them with this auto pilot mode? i hate this expanded NPG mess. i hate the background vocalists. it worked in the past but now it's messy in my opinion. i was listening to an interview the other day and wendy and lisa were like he doesn't have anybody around to really throw ideas at him or tell him when something is corny. just a bunch of "in awe" yes men. ( all pure speculation of course)

idk. he was on to something with 3EG but he lost his way i guess. they could've been in the vain of that girl band Haim but with a more raw, garage rock sound as opposed to pop.

where is PLECTRUMELECTRUM?

THIS

databank said:

EyeHatechu said:

databank said: I was reffering to the NPG Hornz they have now at his live shows. Everyone you listed was actually really good and I liked their contributions to his vibe at those times.

Ah OK, well I don't have an opinion yet about this horn section, so far I've found them technically excellent (of course) but quite unimaginative by comparison to the Hornheads but I'd have 2 c what they're able to do in the studio and in terms of arrangement and composition to really know, + I literally worship the work of MBN so well, you know...

I think overall this is part of a very retro "soul" sound has when playing with the whole NPG with the girls and horns and all. I'm not very sensitive to that overall, i'm a funk addict not a soul addict, I've never been into vocal soul, Aretha Franklin, The Commitments, The Blues Brothers, that kinda stuff. But I know many people who are (the success of the 3 artists/soundtrack I've mentioned is proof in itself) so while it's unsuprisingly unappealing to us (after all originally many of us are barebone electrofunk fans and that's why we love in the first place I guess) this band configuration may be appealing to the casual listener, the same way playing mostly old hits is boring to us and cool to them. In the studio I find that remained close to his roots all along (I know many don't share my opinion but nonetheless minimalist electrofunk is a constant genre comes back to regularly) but his live show have been sounding more and more "generic" ever since the Musicology tour if not earlier. The 3EG configuration brought some raw freshness back in the mix, thanks God for that, let's see how this evolves but I guess at least a good half of the show may still have this soul/broadway feeling in the future

The question is whether can go though a new music phase once more or not. If you cut down his career in phases there's been the Mpls sound years (78-85), the expansion of his musical vocabulary (85-91), a certain return to his R&B roots (91-96), the so-called plastic years (96-01), his short jazz interlude (01-03) and ever since 04 we've been in some sort of a neo-classicist era where he's been reexploring his own past. It's been 11 years and it's by far the longest phase in his career, one that I'm starting to think may last forever. I thought 3EG may be the beginning of something else, but the recent studio recordings (while being very much to my taste) don't show any real evolution in his sound save maybe the garage feel of a very few studio tracks (but a few tracks aren't enough to show anything, has always been going in many directions at once through a few isolated songs here and there without it becoming a direction in itself).

In the end I think he needs to go somewhere radically different from what he's done b4. It may be garage rock or it may be (God forbids) radio-friendly dance music with Josh becoming the new Kirky J, IDK, or it may be something totally unexpected. Back in the days, with records such as The Undertaker, Kamasutra, The War, Xpectation or N.E.W.S. led me to think he could suddenly embrace a true new direction in his music but the past 10 years have consistantly contradicted me. Not that I'm complaining: I've loved the studio music as consistantly, but I like an artist to surprise me and while could keep doing the same thing for the next 40 years and keep me happy doing so, I'd love him to just go wild and try something radically new.

while not the best technical musicians he ever had, the Revolution had the best chemistry next to the SOTT band. Side note: the flesh band would've/could've been his best line up: Sheila E, Wendy, Lisa, Levi, Eric Leeds and P. omg

ufoclub said:

"Gold" was one of the most hyped but sugary overproduced songs. I like the barebones demo with natural drums of "New Power Generation". I like the original take with the raw vocals of "Elephants and Flowers" so much more. I wish he hadn't rerecorded that.

------------------------------

Prince is more a capable producer than anyone when he takes the time to properly bake a song. And when he isn't targeting the audience of The View and bringing out the Mark Tree wind chimes in the studio.

Rick Rubin never made anything as cool as "Joy in Repitition" or as unique as "3121" (which was the influence of the 90's power trio again. I'm fairly sure "Boom" also came from these sessions). I think the first 4 tracks of both Planet Earth and 20ten are quite interesting productions, and reference music styles and possibly even movie soundtracks in a way that is quite entertaining to me. I think what Rick Rubin is good at is minimal but strong production in the sense that the arrangements fit expectations and don't try to teach the pop audience new rules. Of course that's commercially strong.

PS... "Computer Blue" is some shitty production in my not so humble opinion. I've thought that since I first heard the album on cassette all the way till now. Thought it was lame in the movie too. The rendition of "Father's Song" in this song is weak sauce compared to the piano version played in the movie. It sounds as bad as the live guitar solo on the video for Madonna's "Dress You Up in My Love". I dislike the Prince songs that sound like a boring beat stuck on loop that is lazily riffed on with formulaic hard funk. It's very similar to my dislike for "America" on record. I wish "Computer Blue" had been flipped with a B-side like "Erotic City" or "17 Days" for album and movie inclusion. The David Bowie copycat blowjob part of the live performance seems simply that.

But... the bootleg extended version of Computer Blue does seem to elevate it into something quite cool by giving it a crescendo and place to reach. It's amazing what gold Prince cuts out or reworks into a weaker version sometimes.

wow.to my ears everything about Computer Blue is amazing.production,singing,guitar solo,fathers song section

[Edited 7/8/14 11:36am]

databank said:

SuperSoulFighter said:

fbueller said: How do you know? Maybe 3rdEyeGirl are inspiring him just as much. Whether or not we like the end result is up to us.

corrected it for you databank

[Edited 7/8/14 10:14am]

thebanishedone said:

ufoclub said:

"Gold" was one of the most hyped but sugary overproduced songs. I like the barebones demo with natural drums of "New Power Generation". I like the original take with the raw vocals of "Elephants and Flowers" so much more. I wish he hadn't rerecorded that.

------------------------------

Prince is more a capable producer than anyone when he takes the time to properly bake a song. And when he isn't targeting the audience of The View and bringing out the Mark Tree wind chimes in the studio.

Rick Rubin never made anything as cool as "Joy in Repitition" or as unique as "3121" (which was the influence of the 90's power trio again. I'm fairly sure "Boom" also came from these sessions). I think the first 4 tracks of both Planet Earth and 20ten are quite interesting productions, and reference music styles and possibly even movie soundtracks in a way that is quite entertaining to me. I think what Rick Rubin is good at is minimal but strong production in the sense that the arrangements fit expectations and don't try to teach the pop audience new rules. Of course that's commercially strong.

PS... "Computer Blue" is some shitty production in my not so humble opinion. I've thought that since I first heard the album on cassette all the way till now. Thought it was lame in the movie too. The rendition of "Father's Song" in this song is weak sauce compared to the piano version played in the movie. It sounds as bad as the live guitar solo on the video for Madonna's "Dress You Up in My Love". I dislike the Prince songs that sound like a boring beat stuck on loop that is lazily riffed on with formulaic hard funk. It's very similar to my dislike for "America" on record. I wish "Computer Blue" had been flipped with a B-side like "Erotic City" or "17 Days" for album and movie inclusion. The David Bowie copycat blowjob part of the live performance seems simply that.

But... the bootleg extended version of Computer Blue does seem to elevate it into something quite cool by giving it a crescendo and place to reach. It's amazing what gold Prince cuts out or reworks into a weaker version sometimes.

wow.to my ears everything about Computer Blue is amazing.production,sining,vine,guitar solo,fathers song section

Different people... different tastes! I know a lot of general public thinks "Computer Blue" is probably the weakest link on the album. My friends who are not obsessed seemed to think so back then.

tab32792 said:

good thread. idk what it is. i honestly think paisley park might be to blame as said before. everything has been either too polished or overproduced. he needs to just live in an in home studio or a new warehouse lol and record comepletly live with 3EG. he needs a rough/raw sound. he has plenty of hits so why is he still chasing them with this auto pilot mode? i hate this expanded NPG mess. i hate the background vocalists. it worked in the past but now it's messy in my opinion. i was listening to an interview the other day and wendy and lisa were like he doesn't have anybody around to really throw ideas at him or tell him when something is corny. just a bunch of "in awe" yes men. ( all pure speculation of course)

idk. he was on to something with 3EG but he lost his way i guess. they could've been in the vain of that girl band Haim but with a more raw, garage rock sound as opposed to pop.

where is PLECTRUMELECTRUM?

ufoclub said:

thebanishedone said:

wow.to my ears everything about Computer Blue is amazing.production,sining,vine,guitar solo,fathers song section

Different people... different tastes! I know a lot of general public thinks "Computer Blue" is probably the weakest link on the album. My friends who are not obsessed seemed to think so back then.

Maybe its because Computer Blue is a weird space funk rocker and the rest of the album can be qualified as pop music?

I think that Computer Blue is one amazing song that only Prince can do and it really showcased his genious.

[Edited 7/8/14 11:35am]

V10LETBLUES said:

thebanishedone said:

ufoclub said:

Different people... different tastes! I know a lot of general public thinks "Computer Blue" is probably the weakest link on the album. My friends who are not obsessed seemed to think so back then.

Maybe its because Computer Blue is a weird space funk rocker and the rest of the album can be qualified as pop music?

I think that Computer Blue is one amazing song that only Prince can do and it really showcased his genious.

[Edited 7/8/14 11:35am]

I think people just think the other big songs on the album simply sound better, and were more fun. But I still think of Computer Blue as rock/pop, but I think Let's Go Crazy is much better.

ufoclub said:

. But I still think of Computer Blue as rock/pop, but I think Let's Go Crazy is much better.

.

Still? Let's Go Crazy doesn't hold up for me. Too much Johnny B. Good in it.

.

Computer Blue had the avant garde thing that made Prince sexy. Tthat song is the Revolution persona more than any other. 17 Days always sounded like the repetitive loop thing you were talking about, and a great chorus but not a fully hatched song.