I'm asking this very genuinely. I mean back in the early 90's when we believed all those 86 tracks on the boots to have been on it I can understand, but ever since we got the tracklist and the final configuration is already a basic configuration of SOTT in the end. Strangely enough I hear more people saying they wish this was released more than Crystal Ball (if a pre-SOTT configuration was 2 ever be released). I find this quite puzzling, honest.

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Let's take a look at the final configuration of DF (which, let's remember, was not considered "final" at the time, i.e. if released as a Prince And The Revolution album in 87, it would have undergone some changes and probably have contained even more SOTT tracks).

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Visions

Dream Factory

Train

The Ballad Of Dorothy Parker

It

Strange Relationship

Slow Love

Starfish And Coffee

Interlude – Wendy

I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man

Sign O' The Times

Crystal Ball

A Place In Heaven

Last Heart

Witness 4 The Prosecution

Movie Star

The Cross

All My Dreams

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In the end 8 tracks out of 17 (barring the interlude) ended-up on SOTT and the 9 other songs, while all being great, IDK, they don't carry so much "Revolution" essence (if there ever was such a thing) 4 me. OK there was a little more Wendy & Lisa, including Lisa singing on APIH, but in the end IDK, it's just as much a solo effort by Prince as SOTT was, just more background vocals by W&L is all. And as an ensemble I don't find this selection anywhere as strong as either CB or SOTT (and I have the reconstructed boot, so I've listened 2 it as intended). I love each and every track but listening 2 them in a group doesn't do it 2 me the same way as CB or SOTT. Now I may listen to it again one day and think totally differently but this is how I feel as of 2 day and ever since I've heard this configuration for the first time.

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I have a STRONG feeling that this album is more mythic because it was supposed 2 b a 4th "Prince And The Revolution" album that 4 what it is in itself. Honest. Some kind of a mystic aura that has little to do with the real album and more with the artist's name on the cover.

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So I'm not trying 2 say I'm right and others are wrong, in the end it's all about opinions, but I'd be really interested in some people giving developped thoughts about y they think this configuration was such a great album.

Because Wendy and Lisa were on the Dream Factory tracks, and had been more or less "scrubbed" out of them by the time Sign 'O' the Times dropped.

There is no more to it than that.

I've seen a few configurations. And as you've said, the one you listed might not have been the final.

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I also feel it's not about being mythic.

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For me it's also how I view the Black Album possibilities or Roadhouse Garden or the Camille album or the 1989 Rave album

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It's the look, the lyrics the tour, the videos, the bsides the long versions, how would the protege music go along with the album. the album artwork etc I believe the Dream Factory album would have been more than SOTT(as much as I love the era) There was a 'maturing' direction he was talking that I think could have helped him stay on the cutting edge even into the 1990s instead of the direction he went which too me turned into him following trends and not really being socially significant thru music and the pop culture

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Power Fantastic (intro)
Power Fantastic

In a Large Room with No Light

Teacher Teacher

Sexual Suicide

Witness 4 the Prosecution

Big Tall Wall

Data Bank

We Can Funk

Joy In Repetition

Can't Stop This Feeling I Got

Girl O my Dreams

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and so many others I think over all Dream Factory may have had a focused direction/vision, that Sign o the Times never lived up too. I always thought the song as the title track, title of the album didn't go in the direction it presented. Whereas to me all the previous albums did back to Dirty Mind.

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I also think what would he have done with the Black album

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And even though I like Batman soundtrack music, when I think of what the Rave album/era would have been like, after the Lovesexy magic/aftershows. This new thing he was on fell off after 1989. Most of the Graffiti Bridge music not even coming from 1990 or made directly for the album/movie except for Thieves and a song or too for Mavis & Tevin. All the other music comes from other periods for other purposes from Tick Tick Bang Chocolate Jerk Out and a lot of the music Prince did came from the Dream Factory sessions as well.

It's mythic because he was still at the very top of his game back then, and everyone (bar a few nutcase fams) loves the Revolution, even if only as a concept; i.e. a great backing band who looked good and were around him before he became the untouchably famous post-purple rain pop star. Anyway, I tend to make my own playlists of 85-87 material, I don't find the proposed tracklists to be especially good listens flow-wise.

OldFriends4Sale said:

I believe the Dream Factory album would have been more than SOTT(as much as I love the era) There was a 'maturing' direction he was talking that I think could have helped him stay on the cutting edge even into the 1990s instead of the direction he went which too me turned into him following trends

^^

The Sign "☮" The Times album is better......

His finest album: No fillers there, strong all the way.

Imho.

A number of people on the org have a W&L fetish and they believe there was more of W&L on Dream Factory than on CB and SOTT. I suppose they are somewhat right in that W&L contributed virtually nothing on SOTT, but left a few marks on DF.

Of DF, CB and SOTT I consider CB the strongest.

Without even thinking about "SOTT". I've always like the running order of the tracklist and I have always enjoyed listening to the songs in that order which gives some of the songs a different context in terms with the theme of that album. I think it's as good as "SOTT" but different. I really don't like to pit albums againist each other but more less taking them for what they are when they were made or suppossed to be released. Had "Dream Factory" been released I think it would've been the strongest or best Revolution album. The only track to me thats kinda weak would be "Train" but I really like how the end of the track goes into "BODP". Also find the alternate versions of the songs enjoyable as well. Commericially, i really don't know how this record would of faired with the regular buying public but I can best believe the music heads, Prince fans and critics would of lauded over it. It was quite a daring project. The sequence of the tracks from "SOTT" to "All My Dreams" is quite a daring 2 sides of music with really unique and experimental and innovative material for the time. I also really like the concept of the album. From the opener of "Dream Factory" to the closer "All My Dreams", Prince takes the listener through a journey of material from the perspective of a dream state. Through the falsehood and emptiness of the "Dream Factory" which focuses on the superficial and also the pitfalls of Holly Rock to "All My Dreams" which has a theme a self empowerment by following your dreams. Not for the superficial reasons but whats in your heart. Theres a Yin and Yang between the 2 songs thats not often discussed. The "SOTT" album really doesn't have cohearant theme. It's just an amazing collection of songs.

Big Chick

"Security Ensuring Thee"

thedance said:

The Sign "☮" The Times album is better......

His finest album: No fillers there, strong all the way.

Imho.

Just swap Its gonna be a beautiful night with Crystal Ball there would be no arguements!

paulludvig said:

BigChick said:

Without even thinking about "SOTT". I've always like the running order of the tracklist and I have always enjoyed listening to the songs in that order which gives some of the songs a different context in terms with the theme of that album. I think it's as good as "SOTT" but different. I really don't like to pit albums againist each other but more less taking them for what they are when they were made or suppossed to be released. Had "Dream Factory" been released I think it would've been the strongest or best Revolution album. The only track to me thats kinda weak would be "Train" but I really like how the end of the track goes into "BODP". Also find the alternate versions of the songs enjoyable as well. Commericially, i really don't know how this record would of faired with the regular buying public but I can best believe the music heads, Prince fans and critics would of lauded over it. It was quite a daring project. The sequence of the tracks from "SOTT" to "All My Dreams" is quite a daring 2 sides of music with really unique and experimental and innovative material for the time. I also really like the concept of the album. From the opener of "Dream Factory" to the closer "All My Dreams", Prince takes the listener through a journey of material from the perspective of a dream state. Through the falsehood and emptiness of the "Dream Factory" which focuses on the superficial and also the pitfalls of Holly Rock to "All My Dreams" which has a theme a self empowerment by following your dreams. Not for the superficial reasons but whats in your heart. Theres a Yin and Yang between the 2 songs thats not often discussed. The "SOTT" album really doesn't have cohearant theme. It's just an amazing collection of songs.

Big Chick

"Security Ensuring Thee"

haha, Train is one of my favourite EVER Prince outtakes!

Unless someone hears Dream Factory before they heard any of the songs on SOTT, it's hard to judge the album fairly.

Whatever the actual contributions from Wendy and Lisa, it was clearly designed to be presented as the result of some Revolution collegiality. Had it been released, it probably would have been treated as Parade x 3.

Today, most fans adore Parade, but at the time it was seen as overindulgent and even Prince commented he probably did not have enough material (at the time). Parade felt like Prince needed a bit more discipline, and I'd venture to say that Dream Factory would have been received with more accusations of self-indulgence and lack of cohesion. It would have yielded some hits but it would not have been the sheer critical success that SOTT was.

Fast forward through the decades and you see that the "self-indulgence" of those years is now seen as Prince at his most fascinatingly quirky. I'd say that if Dream Factory had been released instead of SOTT, it would now be considered to be one of those beautiful gems that was unjustly dismissed or underrated at the time, especially now that he's constantly accused of not coming up with anything new.

Aerogram said:

Unless someone hears Dream Factory before they heard any of the songs on SOTT, it's hard to judge the album fairly.

Whatever the actual contributions from Wendy and Lisa, it was clearly designed to be presented as the result of some Revolution collegiality. Had it been released, it probably would have been treated as Parade x 3.

Today, most fans adore Parade, but at the time it was seen as overindulgent and even Prince commented he probably did not have enough material (at the time). Parade felt like Prince needed a bit more discipline, and I'd venture to say that Dream Factory would have been received with more accusations of self-indulgence and lack of cohesion. It would have yielded some hits but it would not have been the sheer critical success that SOTT was.

Fast forward through the decades and you see that the "self-indulgence" of those years is now seen as Prince at his most fascinatingly quirky. I'd say that if Dream Factory had been released instead of SOTT, it would now be considered to be one of those beautiful gems that was unjustly dismissed or underrated at the time, especially now that he's constantly accused of not coming up with anything new.

right, because there were a few playlists and even with the ones we know of, no one can say that would be the final.

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There are some people that just hate Wendy & Lisa so I try try not to get into that.

I've always been interested in the complete band of members. Power Fantastic was a piece created by Lisa Coleman lyrics by Prince that was a full band recording, In A Large Room With No Light was a Lisa Wendy composition with Prince lyrics with a full band recording/Sheila E on drums

From Eric Leeds/Alan Leeds and others who were in the camp they knew as a fact this album had a even more band contributtions.

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Parade & UTCM I think if Prince let the movie not be such a vanity project and included band performances the music would have had a different flow. But to this date to me it's an album that stands on its own, it's a mature grown up sound. But I have an appreciattion for it for him still doing something different. Without that direction there is no way Dream Factory/Sign o the Times could have happened. And as of 2009(LotusFlow3r website) and images Prince have used most of them seem to focus on 1986 and Parade images.

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the outtakes of Dream Factory sessions and that 1985-1986 period are untouched by any other period. So much different styles and directions. So many albums that could have been made from that music. There are songs like SOTT.It.Forever In My Life.Train etc that have a really stripped down feel, and then songs that have a full complexity to them. the 1984-1987 music think to a lot of people is very mysterious and exciting and pulls the most interests.

paulludvig said:

A number of people on the org have a W&L fetish and they believe there was more of W&L on Dream Factory than on CB and SOTT. I suppose they are somewhat right in that W&L contributed virtually nothing on SOTT, but left a few marks on DF.

Of DF, CB and SOTT I consider CB the strongest.

lol is that your answer to the question? Do you really think it's just simplified to Wendy & Lisa? I don't think it is, and I believe it's more complex than that.

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Virtually nothing lol I didn't think you were even a fan back then

warning2all said:

Because the creativity and sophistication of the music was never higher---before or after. Prince and the Revolution had style in every way! Very few artists stretch themselves, like you see on "Dream Factory". (You won't see Bon Jovi ever come up with a "Dream Factory"!) Soon after, Prince began either staying current or repeating himself. I'll take any " Dream Factory" track over "FallInLove2Nite". His music was genius in 1986. Not in 2014.

Managing to put Bon Jovi, Fallinlove2nite and 2014 in a Dream Factory thread? Wow! U've hit the fan, dude!

mojo said:

paulludvig said:

A number of people on the org have a W&L fetish and they believe there was more of W&L on Dream Factory than on CB and SOTT. I suppose they are somewhat right in that W&L contributed virtually nothing on SOTT, but left a few marks on DF.

Of DF, CB and SOTT I consider CB the strongest.

I have now w&l fetish at all but this would have been his defining album, better than SOTT, I still believe if released it would be top 5 / 3 in any critics poll for the last 20 years, IMHO the perfect prince album

How would it be tops in a critics' poll for the last 20 years when it was released 27 years ago?

Aerogram said:

Unless someone hears Dream Factory before they heard any of the songs on SOTT, it's hard to judge the album fairly.

I agree, whether on DF, Camille or DF the SOTT songs will always sound like SOTT tracks in the wrong place 2 me in a way, I guess for most of us. And when u add that several of the other tracks were released elsewhere as well (TWFNO, CB 98) or circulating in bootlegs long b4 we had a complete DF configuration circulating, it adds to the confusion and prevents a fair listen

Since we have all the tracks 2 the first 2 configs, it'd b interesting 2 reconstruct them as well, I'll have 2 try one of those days...

Genesia said:

Because Wendy and Lisa were on the Dream Factory tracks, and had been more or less "scrubbed" out of them by the time Sign 'O' the Times dropped.

There is no more to it than that.

Exactly! No other way to put it!

How is this a question? A Revolution record! During Prince's prime 80's period old fans consider his most exciting!

outside of the Roadhouse Garden album

This is the only really defined album that would have been

the 1983-1986/87 period was a VERY WONDERFUL time to be a Prince fan

the amount of music that was created in that time period could give us no less than 10 different albums.

treehouse said:

How is this a question? A Revolution record! During Prince's prime 80's period old fans consider his most exciting!

The question is why do many people prefer DF to the (imo) much stronger effort of CB.