All Prince needs to have a hit is that payola money. A decent song with lots of money to saturate the market is what makes a hit song today.

"pharrell been had ghost producers. sean paul was supposed to have him produce a song off dutty rock and when he showed up in va. pharrell and chad kept him waiting around for almost a week then palmed off their boy's track on him without even really producing his session and told him they'd get him on the next go 'round. sean paul was pisssssssssed but needed to have that neptunes name brand on his album, so he took the track and called it a day."

This is what Prince would get with Pharrell. A brand name that would get any record label to pour money into saturating the market.

lrn36 said:

All Prince needs to have a hit is that payola money. A decent song with lots of money to saturate the market is what makes a hit song today.

"pharrell been had ghost producers. sean paul was supposed to have him produce a song off dutty rock and when he showed up in va. pharrell and chad kept him waiting around for almost a week then palmed off their boy's track on him without even really producing his session and told him they'd get him on the next go 'round. sean paul was pisssssssssed but needed to have that neptunes name brand on his album, so he took the track and called it a day."

This is what Prince would get with Pharrell. A brand name that would get any record label to pour money into saturating the market.

Do you know of any other situations that are similar to what you wrote here that involve Pharrell and/or the Neptunes? I've always heard the music business is super shady, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised by this one bit.

SeventeenDayze said:

lrn36 said:

All Prince needs to have a hit is that payola money. A decent song with lots of money to saturate the market is what makes a hit song today.

"pharrell been had ghost producers. sean paul was supposed to have him produce a song off dutty rock and when he showed up in va. pharrell and chad kept him waiting around for almost a week then palmed off their boy's track on him without even really producing his session and told him they'd get him on the next go 'round. sean paul was pisssssssssed but needed to have that neptunes name brand on his album, so he took the track and called it a day."

This is what Prince would get with Pharrell. A brand name that would get any record label to pour money into saturating the market.

Do you know of any other situations that are similar to what you wrote here that involve Pharrell and/or the Neptunes? I've always heard the music business is super shady, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised by this one bit.

This is standard in the record industry. Up and coming producers work under established ones to get a foot in the industry. Sometimes they get a credit sometimes not. Having a hot producers name on your track no matter who actually worked on it is more important than the actual track. Its no different than going to a famous law firm and having some grunt lawyer work on your case and not the actual partners.

I do remeber a youtube video of a talented guitarist recounting a story where he was called in by a famous hip hop producer to lay down some guitar tracks. Next thing he knew he was adding keyboard parts and basslines and ended up creating the whole track. When he was finished the producer only paid him for the guitar work. He acknowledged that he was so excited to be working with this producer that he allowed himself to get used.

lrn36 said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Do you know of any other situations that are similar to what you wrote here that involve Pharrell and/or the Neptunes? I've always heard the music business is super shady, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised by this one bit.

This is standard in the record industry. Up and coming producers work under established ones to get a foot in the industry. Sometimes they get a credit sometimes not. Having a hot producers name on your track no matter who actually worked on it is more important than the actual track. Its no different than going to a famous law firm and having some grunt lawyer work on your case and not the actual partners.

I do remeber a youtube video of a talented guitarist recounting a story where he was called in by a famous hip hop producer to lay down some guitar tracks. Next thing he knew he was adding keyboard parts and basslines and ended up creating the whole track. When he was finished the producer only paid him for the guitar work. He acknowledged that he was so excited to be working with this producer that he allowed himself to get used.

Because I have no experience in the industry, I am confused about a few things. In your earlier post you were saying that Sean Paul was expecting the Neptunes to produce one track for him, right? I assume that the situation was that Sean Paul paid for the Neptunes but they did a no show on him and it forced Sean Paul to do it himself? Does that mean that the Neptunes still got the production credit?

Speaking of someone notorious for using ghostwriters-----Rick Ross and Kanye West (that's what I think anyway)

The guitarist who got ripped off is probably still upset about that situation. That's terrible what they did to him but from what you said, he was just cool to be in the presence of a music big shot. I think these situations prove why some artists seem to stay around for years while others who have talent never get discovered because they don't know how to navigate the system without selling their souls.

[Edited 6/7/14 12:41pm]

SeventeenDayze said:

lrn36 said:

This is standard in the record industry. Up and coming producers work under established ones to get a foot in the industry. Sometimes they get a credit sometimes not. Having a hot producers name on your track no matter who actually worked on it is more important than the actual track. Its no different than going to a famous law firm and having some grunt lawyer work on your case and not the actual partners.

I do remeber a youtube video of a talented guitarist recounting a story where he was called in by a famous hip hop producer to lay down some guitar tracks. Next thing he knew he was adding keyboard parts and basslines and ended up creating the whole track. When he was finished the producer only paid him for the guitar work. He acknowledged that he was so excited to be working with this producer that he allowed himself to get used.

Because I have no experience in the industry, I am confused about a few things. In your earlier post you were saying that Sean Paul was expecting the Neptunes to produce one track for him, right? I assume that the situation was that Sean Paul paid for the Neptunes but they did a no show on him and it forced Sean Paul to do it himself? Does that mean that the Neptunes still got the production credit?

Speaking of someone notorious for using ghostwriters-----Rick Ross and Kanye West (that's what I think anyway)

The guitarist who got ripped off is probably still upset about that situation. That's terrible what they did to him but from what you said, he was just cool to be in the presence of a music big shot. I think these situations prove why some artists seem to stay around for years while others who have talent never get discovered because they don't know how to navigate the system without selling their souls.

[Edited 6/7/14 12:41pm]

Yes, the Neptunes still got credit and the paycheck because the production was created under their company. Sean Paul assumed and rightfully so that the Neptunes would be personally working on the track and not one of their underlings.

Also, let's not forget young songwriters who have to give up half a songwriting credit to the artist so the artist can get a royalty check even if the artist wrote little to nothing on the track.

lrn36 said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Because I have no experience in the industry, I am confused about a few things. In your earlier post you were saying that Sean Paul was expecting the Neptunes to produce one track for him, right? I assume that the situation was that Sean Paul paid for the Neptunes but they did a no show on him and it forced Sean Paul to do it himself? Does that mean that the Neptunes still got the production credit?

Speaking of someone notorious for using ghostwriters-----Rick Ross and Kanye West (that's what I think anyway)

The guitarist who got ripped off is probably still upset about that situation. That's terrible what they did to him but from what you said, he was just cool to be in the presence of a music big shot. I think these situations prove why some artists seem to stay around for years while others who have talent never get discovered because they don't know how to navigate the system without selling their souls.

[Edited 6/7/14 12:41pm]

Yes, the Neptunes still got credit and the paycheck because the production was created under their company. Sean Paul assumed and rightfully so that the Neptunes would be personally working on the track and not one of their underlings.

Also, let's not forget young songwriters who have to give up half a songwriting credit to the artist so the artist can get a royalty check even if the artist wrote little to nothing on the track.

Wow! That's pretty shady, especially because some of these artists are lauded as so "talented, creative, etc" but really when it comes to it most of them have made their profits from doing a lot of no shows! Sounds like a racket to me!

scorp84 said:

Ghostwriting/"paying dues" is nothing new. Every musician has gone that route.Just as there are quite a few Neptunes, R. Kelly, Kanye West and Robin Thicke tracks that have been credited to hotter producers of the day back in the 90s.

I don't remember R Kelly being produced by anyone else, unless they weren't credited as such.

scorp84 said:

Ghostwriting/"paying dues" is nothing new. Every musician has gone that route.Just as there are quite a few Neptunes, R. Kelly, Timbaland,Kanye West and Robin Thicke tracks that have been credited to hotter producers of the day back in the 90s. [Edited 6/7/14 16:16pm]

When I met Kanye it was during the time Janet had just released her first single from "Damita Jo"' that he wrote. I complimented him on it during our conversation. Kanye who is very real & down to earth & doesn't bite his tongue. Told me he did a lot more work on that album. But Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis didn't give him credit. Because he is a new producer. He seemed very pissed about it.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

scorp84 said:

Ghostwriting/"paying dues" is nothing new. Every musician has gone that route.Just as there are quite a few Neptunes, R. Kelly, Timbaland,Kanye West and Robin Thicke tracks that have been credited to hotter producers of the day back in the 90s. [Edited 6/7/14 16:16pm]

When I met Kanye it was during the time Janet had just released her first single from "Damita Jo"' that he wrote. I complimented him on it during our conversation. Kanye who is very real & down to earth & doesn't bite his tongue. Told me he did a lot more work on that album. But Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis didn't give him credit. Because he is a new producer. He seemed very pissed about it.

Sounds like the whole Old Friends 4 Sale debacle, right?

I wonder if Pharrell uses ghostwriters. I was always under the impression that he was more or less doing the production without anyone else's (substantial) input. So, how can we measure if someone is a good producer or just good at finding ghostwriters. Nothing for nothing, we should be grateful that we never have to worry about this kind of thing with Prince.

SeventeenDayze said:

lrn36 said:

Yes, the Neptunes still got credit and the paycheck because the production was created under their company. Sean Paul assumed and rightfully so that the Neptunes would be personally working on the track and not one of their underlings.

Also, let's not forget young songwriters who have to give up half a songwriting credit to the artist so the artist can get a royalty check even if the artist wrote little to nothing on the track.

Wow! That's pretty shady, especially because some of these artists are lauded as so "talented, creative, etc" but really when it comes to it most of them have made their profits from doing a lot of no shows! Sounds like a racket to me!

See Madonna and Mariah Carey for plenty of that.

SeventeenDayze said:

kewlschool said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Wow! That's pretty shady, especially because some of these artists are lauded as so "talented, creative, etc" but really when it comes to it most of them have made their profits from doing a lot of no shows! Sounds like a racket to me!

See Madonna and Mariah Carey for plenty of that.

Really? That's interesting. Didn't Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis produce Madonna's albums for a while? I think it was that album that Babyface was all over. I don't exactly remember. I'm not really surprised about Mariah though. Was it her earlier work or more recent stuff?

SoulAlive said:

Jam and Lewis have never worked with Madonna

Thanks for clearing that up

Madonna: Writer of Her Songs Explains How “Like a Prayer,” Other Hits Were Composed

Does Madonna write her own songs? Yes, and no. She doesn’t write the music, that’s for sure. And now that Ms. Ciccone has been put up for induction in the Songwriters Hall of Fame, I thought it might be interesting to settle the question after all.

Last night I chatted with Patrick Leonard, the great composer of pop hits and sometimes even a ghost writer and ‘enabler’ for rock stars who need help getting their work onto paper. Leonard is a trained musician who can play anything at the drop of a hat. On the phone, from Amsterdam, where he’s working with Leonard Cohen, Patrick played “Like a Prayer” for me in different sections. He wrote the music for that hit, as he did for many of Madonna’s big hits during her top of the chart heyday.

Patrick Leonard wrote the music for, among others: “Like a Prayer,” “Cherish,” “True Blue,” “Live to Tell,” “La Isla Bonita,” “Frozen,” “Hanky Panky,” “Sky Fits Heaven,” “Nothing Really Matters,” “I’ll Remember,” and “Something to Remember.” He was a producer on “Open Your Heart.”

Madonna wrote the lyrics, Leonard says, with him, and helped create the melodies. He considers her a friend and mentor. “She put me on the map,” he says, “I’m grateful.”

“I’m one of those people behind the curtain.” Leonard says. “If she [Madonna] hadn’t sung those songs, no one would have heard them. She’s made it possible for me to do what I’m doing now.”

Their process was simple. He wrote the music, and brought it to Madonna. She would help supply lyrics and offer changes in the music to suit her. “She’d refine it,” he says. “You give her a track, she sings the melody. She’s very very talented.” Of their collaboration, he says, “One doesn’t exist without the other. She always showed up and she was always completely involved. I miss her, actually.”

They haven’t written together since 1997. Would he like to do it again? “Absolutely,” Leonard says. “She writes a lot with deejays now.”

Leonard is credited on all the songs he wrote with Madonna. They include the largest number of chart hits on which she is credited as co-writer. There are no songs that are credited just to Madonna. And a clutch of them were written solely by others including “Holiday,” “Like a Virgin,” “Material Girl,” and “Borderline.”

Leonard told me he didn’t care if Madonna goes into the Songwriters Hall of Fame without him. He doesn’t believe in awards. He doesn’t even hang his gold records. “They’re all in a closet somewhere,” he said. He just believes in moving forward. This week he comes to New York to work with Roger Waters.

>

Songs written solely by Madonna:

>

Lucky Star, Burning Up, I Know It, Think Of Me, Everybody.

Alexandernvrmind said:

Yeah it would be nice but P would never do it I just watched Justin ?Timberlake discuss his influences on Oprahs life class. He talked about Michael, Stevie, Donnie Hathaway, he even mentioned D'Angelo. Not a word on Prince... Not one single word. He talked about the song SexyBack and how that song was his attempt to really establish himself.... And all I could think about is how Prince claimed Sexy never went anywhere and created a public thing with Justin. As Justin continued to talk in depth about Stevie and Michael influences I remembered that he hired Princes drummer and base player and Sonny T. Cleary the dude is influenced by Prince. He reeks of 80s Prince. If you haven't heard Not a bad thing from JT check it out. Happy by Pharrell or tightrope (written by janelle with Bruno) or locked out of heaven by Bruno These people are writing circles around P. His ego will never allow him to work with these men. Chocolate Box... Have Pharrell produce that song or Black Sweat.... Those songs are better. It's a shame that P is so irrelevant .... But it's his own fault

lol...Justin know how Prince feel about his fake style jacking ass, so he won't mention him. prince spoke the truth and Justin can't take it. He is a Prince jacker.

StyleandFashion said:

Alexandernvrmind said:

Yeah it would be nice but P would never do it I just watched Justin ?Timberlake discuss his influences on Oprahs life class. He talked about Michael, Stevie, Donnie Hathaway, he even mentioned D'Angelo. Not a word on Prince... Not one single word. He talked about the song SexyBack and how that song was his attempt to really establish himself.... And all I could think about is how Prince claimed Sexy never went anywhere and created a public thing with Justin. As Justin continued to talk in depth about Stevie and Michael influences I remembered that he hired Princes drummer and base player and Sonny T. Cleary the dude is influenced by Prince. He reeks of 80s Prince. If you haven't heard Not a bad thing from JT check it out. Happy by Pharrell or tightrope (written by janelle with Bruno) or locked out of heaven by Bruno These people are writing circles around P. His ego will never allow him to work with these men. Chocolate Box... Have Pharrell produce that song or Black Sweat.... Those songs are better. It's a shame that P is so irrelevant .... But it's his own fault

lol...Justin know how Prince feel about his fake style jacking ass, so he won't mention him. prince spoke the truth and Justin can't take it. He is a Prince jacker.

Agreed

artist76 said:

This is an interesting thread. Nice job on this one, org!

Agreed, this thread is full of good, reasonably grown up conversation with interesting points being made throughout the length of the thread. Quite exceptional on the Org indeed!

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

SeventeenDayze said:

I love this song with Pharrell and Daft Punk. Imagine if Prince were on this track as well....

Prince already did this track DECADES ago! It was called "LadyCabDriver"....

^^^ THIS NUKKA SERIOUS?!?

CocoRock said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Prince already did this track DECADES ago! It was called "LadyCabDriver"....

^^^ THIS NUKKA SERIOUS?!?

Was your comment about the Gust of Wind song or about the comparison to Lady Cab Driver?

[Edited 6/16/14 23:49pm]

SeventeenDayze said:

CocoRock said:

^^^ THIS NUKKA SERIOUS?!?

Was your comment about the Gust of Wind song or about the comparison to Lady Cab Driver?

[Edited 6/16/14 23:49pm]

I just meant with all this talk about Prince needs to hook up with Pharrell(who I do think is dope). Prince was doing that type of funk decades ago with "Lady Cab Driver". Not saying "Gust of Wind" isounded like it. Just a been there done that. I feel its a total insult and slap in the face to even suggest a collab. Prince doesn't NEED Pharrell! He already did what Pharrell is doing now and set the blueprint.

SeventeenDayze said:

CocoRock said:

^^^ THIS NUKKA SERIOUS?!?

Was your comment about the Gust of Wind song or about the comparison to Lady Cab Driver?

[Edited 6/16/14 23:49pm]

Nah, "Gust Of Wind" is aight. My reply was def about the comparison. Even HE knew it was some bullshit, hence the back pedaling.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Was your comment about the Gust of Wind song or about the comparison to Lady Cab Driver?

[Edited 6/16/14 23:49pm]

I just meant with all this talk about Prince needs to hook up with Pharrell(who I do think is dope). Prince was doing that type of funk decades ago with "Lady Cab Driver". Not saying "Gust of Wind" isounded like it. Just a been there done that. I feel its a total insult and slap in the face to even suggest a collab. Prince doesn't NEED Pharrell! He already did what Pharrell is doing now and set the blueprint.

Several posts ago, I said that nobody was suggesting that Prince needs Skateboard P. BUT, given that Pharrell is extremely talented, it would be interesting to see what they could come up with together. I never really knew anything about Daft Punk until I heard some of their music with Pharrell. I never knew robots could "sing" I don't think anybody is suggesting that Prince should collaborate on that Move that Dope song, LOL!

[Edited 6/17/14 9:30am]

CocoRock said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Was your comment about the Gust of Wind song or about the comparison to Lady Cab Driver?

[Edited 6/16/14 23:49pm]

Nah, "Gust Of Wind" is aight. My reply was def about the comparison. Even HE knew it was some bullshit, hence the back pedaling.

Yeah I really tried to hear the similarities in those songs but I don't think they're anything close to each other at all.

To whom it may concern! I'm not back peddling ANYTHING! I still stand by what I said. Prince already did that type of muziq DECADES ago. Prince can write a song like "Gust a Wind" in his sleep..

Its the same type of sound Prince had on his 1999 album.

SeventeenDayze said:

CocoRock said:

Nah, "Gust Of Wind" is aight. My reply was def about the comparison. Even HE knew it was some bullshit, hence the back pedaling.

Yeah I really tried to hear the similarities in those songs but I don't think they're anything close to each other at all.

They don't. Not in tempo, key, melody, instrumentation, ANYTHING! Ms. Muziq was prolly just listening to "LCD", that was the first example she could think of, and wanted something contrary to write. Minus spellcheck.

First, "Not saying "Gust of Wind" isounded like it.", then "Its the same type of sound Prince had on his 1999 album.". indeed.

CocoRock said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Yeah I really tried to hear the similarities in those songs but I don't think they're anything close to each other at all.

They don't. Not in tempo, key, melody, instrumentation, ANYTHING! Ms. Muziq was prolly just listening to "LCD", that was the first example she could think of, and wanted something contrary to write. Minus spellcheck.

First, "Not saying "Gust of Wind" isounded like it.", then "Its the same type of sound Prince had on his 1999 album.". indeed.

I guess some folks want to disagree for the sake of disagreeing

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