• Prince is not as good as he used to be. That's something everyone should admit, the appreciation he gets for his new songs is just a fanatic behavior. If somebody else, say, Justin Timberlake released any song Prince released in the past few months, he would be smacked.
• Fans need to stop for a second, and see things in a different way. Prince was never the greatest songwriter of all time, facts prove that other musicians were more innovative & groundbreaking in songwriting.
• Fans need to stop saying "Prince plays 29 instruments" because that's not true, Prince plays only essential instruments (Piano, guitar, drums, keyboard...) And other instruments are just sub instruments, cuz if you can play the acoustic guitar, you can play the ukele, the slide guitar and the electric guitar. That thing is becoming a taboo we shouldn't talk about, what? Prince is no god, he's just a normal musician, he is talented, but we should stop saying that he plays instruments more than any musician, plus, we don't know anything we never seen, if the credits say "Prince played all the instruments", that's not enough to prove he actually did. He's credited to play sax, harmonica... but we never saw him do that.
• Stop, please, stop comparing Prince to Jimi Hendrix, if Prince was better than Jimi at playing guitar he would ve shown it => He would ve been recognized as the best guitarist of all time, but he never showed anything jaw dropping like Jimi did, he's a monster at playing guitar but he's not the best and we certainly shouldn't compare him to Jimi Hendrix because Jimi is the one who played the guitar with more soul, more talent, more professionally than anyone who has ever lived.

Shawy89 said:

Yes, exactly, that's my point, no one gives a damn about a not so crazy Prince fan thoughts. Y'all are sick with Prince, he isn't the best, it's like you force him to be, but he ain't, I feel so much better that some reasonable fans will see this and discuss it with me.

The good thing about opinions is that I am entitled to disagree with all of yours

Not as good as he used to be? In some ways (guitar playing), he's better than he's ever been. Songwriting? "The Breakdown" is widely considered to be as good as, if not better than a lot of stuff he's done in the past. Also, when exactly is this "used to be" that you're referring to? Is it 10 years ago? Because I dig what he's done in the last 12 months MUCH more than "Musicology". Or is it 17 years ago? Because I dig what he's done in the last 12 months MUCH more than "New Power Soul".

Prince was never the greatest songwriter of all time? Rolling Stone, for one, disagrees. Prince has more songs in their "Top 500 Songs of All Time" list than anyone, unless you include Lennon/McCartney, which I don't, because some of the songs are clearly 95% Lennon compositions and some clearly 95% McCartney. If you pick one of them on their own, Prince has more songs in that list than either Lennon or McCartney. "Innovation" and "Groundbreaking" have nothing to do with great songwriting. "Big Yellow Taxi" isn't innovative or groundbreaking, yet it's one of the greatest songs ever written. "Revolution #9" might be innovative, but it's practically unlistenable. Everyone has their preferences. I think Prince is the greatest songwriter of all time because of his incredibly wide grasp of styles. You can pick any one genre he does and maybe find someone that writes better songs in that one genre, but find me someone that writes great songs in as many genres as Prince does.


Does it really matter exactly how many instruments he plays? The fact is, he plays more than most people, and is incredibly proficient at them. Who else plays all those instruments, has produced their own music since the age of 18, has the biggest vocal range than any other known singer other than Axl Rose (who can't hit the highest notes that Prince can, but has recorded in quite a few lower ones than Prince has), is a fantastic dancer, a great bandleader, can perform in over a dozen genres/styles? With regards to credits - the testimonies of the bandmembers aren't enough for you? Or the engineers like Susan Rogers? Or former managers like Owen Husney?

Regarding Hendrix, it all comes down to taste. I prefer Prince. The fact that that comparison can even be discussed is testament to how good he is. Clapton called Prince the greatest guitarist alive. We don't know what Hendrix would be like if he was alive. He could be drugged out like Sly Stone and barely able to play. His legacy is preserved because of the fact that he's dead. Maybe if he was alive, you'd also say that Hendrix "isn't as good as he used to be".

Militant said:

The good thing about opinions is that I am entitled to disagree with all of yours

Not as good as he used to be? In some ways (guitar playing), he's better than he's ever been. Songwriting? "The Breakdown" is widely considered to be as good as, if not better than a lot of stuff he's done in the past. Also, when exactly is this "used to be" that you're referring to? Is it 10 years ago? Because I dig what he's done in the last 12 months MUCH more than "Musicology". Or is it 17 years ago? Because I dig what he's done in the last 12 months MUCH more than "New Power Soul".

Prince was never the greatest songwriter of all time? Rolling Stone, for one, disagrees. Prince has more songs in their "Top 500 Songs of All Time" list than anyone, unless you include Lennon/McCartney, which I don't, because some of the songs are clearly 95% Lennon compositions and some clearly 95% McCartney. If you pick one of them on their own, Prince has more songs in that list than either Lennon or McCartney. "Innovation" and "Groundbreaking" have nothing to do with great songwriting. "Big Yellow Taxi" isn't innovative or groundbreaking, yet it's one of the greatest songs ever written. "Revolution #9" might be innovative, but it's practically unlistenable. Everyone has their preferences. I think Prince is the greatest songwriter of all time because of his incredibly wide grasp of styles. You can pick any one genre he does and maybe find someone that writes better songs in that one genre, but find me someone that writes great songs in as many genres as Prince does.


Does it really matter exactly how many instruments he plays? The fact is, he plays more than most people, and is incredibly proficient at them. Who else plays all those instruments, has produced their own music since the age of 18, has the biggest vocal range than any other known singer other than Axl Rose (who can't hit the highest notes that Prince can, but has recorded in quite a few lower ones than Prince has), is a fantastic dancer, a great bandleader, can perform in over a dozen genres/styles? With regards to credits - the testimonies of the bandmembers aren't enough for you? Or the engineers like Susan Rogers? Or former managers like Owen Husney?

Regarding Hendrix, it all comes down to taste. I prefer Prince. The fact that that comparison can even be discussed is testament to how good he is. Clapton called Prince the greatest guitarist alive. We don't know what Hendrix would be like if he was alive. He could be drugged out like Sly Stone and barely able to play. His legacy is preserved because of the fact that he's dead. Maybe if he was alive, you'd also say that Hendrix "isn't as good as he used to be".

Don't agree with everything said here...But the spirit? Yeah...I feel u.....

oh lawd

Militant said:

Shawy89 said:

• Prince is not as good as he used to be. That's something everyone should admit, the appreciation he gets for his new songs is just a fanatic behavior. If somebody else, say, Justin Timberlake released any song Prince released in the past few months, he would be smacked.
• Fans need to stop for a second, and see things in a different way. Prince was never the greatest songwriter of all time, facts prove that other musicians were more innovative & groundbreaking in songwriting.
• Fans need to stop saying "Prince plays 29 instruments" because that's not true, Prince plays only essential instruments (Piano, guitar, drums, keyboard...) And other instruments are just sub instruments, cuz if you can play the acoustic guitar, you can play the ukele, the slide guitar and the electric guitar. That thing is becoming a taboo we shouldn't talk about, what? Prince is no god, he's just a normal musician, he is talented, but we should stop saying that he plays instruments more than any musician, plus, we don't know anything we never seen, if the credits say "Prince played all the instruments", that's not enough to prove he actually did. He's credited to play sax, harmonica... but we never saw him do that.
• Stop, please, stop comparing Prince to Jimi Hendrix, if Prince was better than Jimi at playing guitar he would ve shown it => He would ve been recognized as the best guitarist of all time, but he never showed anything jaw dropping like Jimi did, he's a monster at playing guitar but he's not the best and we certainly shouldn't compare him to Jimi Hendrix because Jimi is the one who played the guitar with more soul, more talent, more professionally than anyone who has ever lived.

some responses for you

• Sure his songwriting now isn't what it was 'then'. But "prince isn't as good", what does that mean? Prince is where is is now as a result of what he did then. Put together a 10 track best of every 4 years for prince back to whenever he "stopped" being good and you'd have a fairly amazing discography. No one can agree on what those tracklists would be though.
• uh... who cares. "Facts" in this kind of area are always subjective. Can every one of these people do what prince does overall in every area Prince excels at or are they just better than him in their one or two specialised areas?
• Fans don't say this. Poorly researched newspaper hagiographies do.
• People are free to compare them. Putting Jimi on that kind of untouchable pedestal is nonsense anyway.

Shawy89 said:

• Prince is not as good as he used to be. That's something everyone should admit, the appreciation he gets for his new songs is just a fanatic behavior. If somebody else, say, Justin Timberlake released any song Prince released in the past few months, he would be smacked.
• Fans need to stop for a second, and see things in a different way. Prince was never the greatest songwriter of all time, facts prove that other musicians were more innovative & groundbreaking in songwriting.
• Fans need to stop saying "Prince plays 29 instruments" because that's not true, Prince plays only essential instruments (Piano, guitar, drums, keyboard...) And other instruments are just sub instruments, cuz if you can play the acoustic guitar, you can play the ukele, the slide guitar and the electric guitar. That thing is becoming a taboo we shouldn't talk about, what? Prince is no god, he's just a normal musician, he is talented, but we should stop saying that he plays instruments more than any musician, plus, we don't know anything we never seen, if the credits say "Prince played all the instruments", that's not enough to prove he actually did. He's credited to play sax, harmonica... but we never saw him do that.
• Stop, please, stop comparing Prince to Jimi Hendrix, if Prince was better than Jimi at playing guitar he would ve shown it => He would ve been recognized as the best guitarist of all time, but he never showed anything jaw dropping like Jimi did, he's a monster at playing guitar but he's not the best and we certainly shouldn't compare him to Jimi Hendrix because Jimi is the one who played the guitar with more soul, more talent, more professionally than anyone who has ever lived.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! I was wondering if y'all dead horses beaters were all dead yourself or what: for months we had a new "Prince is over and done" thread every bloody week and then all of a sudden... SILENCE! Thanks for bringing back the weekly thread, I hope someone will make a new one on Monday so things can be normal again!

Militant said:

The good thing about opinions is that I am entitled to disagree with all of yours

Not as good as he used to be? In some ways (guitar playing), he's better than he's ever been. Songwriting? "The Breakdown" is widely considered to be as good as, if not better than a lot of stuff he's done in the past. Also, when exactly is this "used to be" that you're referring to? Is it 10 years ago? Because I dig what he's done in the last 12 months MUCH more than "Musicology". Or is it 17 years ago? Because I dig what he's done in the last 12 months MUCH more than "New Power Soul".

Prince was never the greatest songwriter of all time? Rolling Stone, for one, disagrees. Prince has more songs in their "Top 500 Songs of All Time" list than anyone, unless you include Lennon/McCartney, which I don't, because some of the songs are clearly 95% Lennon compositions and some clearly 95% McCartney. If you pick one of them on their own, Prince has more songs in that list than either Lennon or McCartney. "Innovation" and "Groundbreaking" have nothing to do with great songwriting. "Big Yellow Taxi" isn't innovative or groundbreaking, yet it's one of the greatest songs ever written. "Revolution #9" might be innovative, but it's practically unlistenable. Everyone has their preferences. I think Prince is the greatest songwriter of all time because of his incredibly wide grasp of styles. You can pick any one genre he does and maybe find someone that writes better songs in that one genre, but find me someone that writes great songs in as many genres as Prince does.


Does it really matter exactly how many instruments he plays? The fact is, he plays more than most people, and is incredibly proficient at them. Who else plays all those instruments, has produced their own music since the age of 18, has the biggest vocal range than any other known singer other than Axl Rose (who can't hit the highest notes that Prince can, but has recorded in quite a few lower ones than Prince has), is a fantastic dancer, a great bandleader, can perform in over a dozen genres/styles? With regards to credits - the testimonies of the bandmembers aren't enough for you? Or the engineers like Susan Rogers? Or former managers like Owen Husney?

Regarding Hendrix, it all comes down to taste. I prefer Prince. The fact that that comparison can even be discussed is testament to how good he is. Clapton called Prince the greatest guitarist alive. We don't know what Hendrix would be like if he was alive. He could be drugged out like Sly Stone and barely able to play. His legacy is preserved because of the fact that he's dead. Maybe if he was alive, you'd also say that Hendrix "isn't as good as he used to be".

I'd had a few beers last night and was thinking of responding to the OP on a point by point basis. Thanks for doing so far more eloquently than I could and saving the org from my drunken tirades.

Shawy89 said:

• The stuff you like is nowhere nearly as good as you think it is, but I know better.

Yeah...no. You could have kept all that to yourself.

Shawy89 said:

• Prince is not as good as he used to be. That's something everyone should admit, the appreciation he gets for his new songs is just a fanatic behavior. If somebody else, say, Justin Timberlake released any song Prince released in the past few months, he would be smacked......This is true, but to a way lesser degree as you probably think. You have anti-Prince bias disease, where it's easy to find faults with him. He tends to release whatever he wants rather than the best songs he has. He still comes up with better songs than most...and by far.



• Fans need to stop for a second, and see things in a different way. Prince was never the greatest songwriter of all time, facts prove that other musicians were more innovative & groundbreaking in songwriting. As far as pop music goes, I consider him better than the Beatles, Elton John, and U2...COMBINED. I want to say he's beter than Stevie Wonder, but something in my DNA prevents from putting Stevie down in any way, shape or form.

Every dog has his day, and it looks like you nailed these two bottom comments pretty much on point. Yes Prince fanatics tend to over-credit for the instruments thing and his ability on guitar. Yes, Jimi was better, but Jimi had the blues and hard rock thing down pat...but wasn't really that funky. But Jimi was, perhaps, the greatest ever guitar player.



• Fans need to stop saying "Prince plays 29 instruments" because that's not true, Prince plays only essential instruments (Piano, guitar, drums, keyboard...) And other instruments are just sub instruments, cuz if you can play the acoustic guitar, you can play the ukele, the slide guitar and the electric guitar. That thing is becoming a taboo we shouldn't talk about, what? Prince is no god, he's just a normal musician, he is talented, but we should stop saying that he plays instruments more than any musician, plus, we don't know anything we never seen, if the credits say "Prince played all the instruments", that's not enough to prove he actually did. He's credited to play sax, harmonica... but we never saw him do that.

• Stop, please, stop comparing Prince to Jimi Hendrix, if Prince was better than Jimi at playing guitar he would ve shown it => He would ve been recognized as the best guitarist of all time, but he never showed anything jaw dropping like Jimi did, he's a monster at playing guitar but he's not the best and we certainly shouldn't compare him to Jimi Hendrix because Jimi is the one who played the guitar with more soul, more talent, more professionally than anyone who has ever lived.

Shawy89 said:

• Prince is not as good as he used to be. That's something everyone should admit, the appreciation he gets for his new songs is just a fanatic behavior. If somebody else, say, Justin Timberlake released any song Prince released in the past few months, he would be smacked.
• Fans need to stop for a second, and see things in a different way. Prince was never the greatest songwriter of all time, facts prove that other musicians were more innovative & groundbreaking in songwriting.
• Fans need to stop saying "Prince plays 29 instruments" because that's not true, Prince plays only essential instruments (Piano, guitar, drums, keyboard...) And other instruments are just sub instruments, cuz if you can play the acoustic guitar, you can play the ukele, the slide guitar and the electric guitar. That thing is becoming a taboo we shouldn't talk about, what? Prince is no god, he's just a normal musician, he is talented, but we should stop saying that he plays instruments more than any musician, plus, we don't know anything we never seen, if the credits say "Prince played all the instruments", that's not enough to prove he actually did. He's credited to play sax, harmonica... but we never saw him do that.
• Stop, please, stop comparing Prince to Jimi Hendrix, if Prince was better than Jimi at playing guitar he would ve shown it => He would ve been recognized as the best guitarist of all time, but he never showed anything jaw dropping like Jimi did, he's a monster at playing guitar but he's not the best and we certainly shouldn't compare him to Jimi Hendrix because Jimi is the one who played the guitar with more soul, more talent, more professionally than anyone who has ever lived.

I actually agree with most of what you post here. But hey, I am considerate a negative force on here too. I would rather call it "reasonable/sensible" though.

I love Prince, he was my teenage musical hero and he will always have a special place in my heart. But to me his new music is often not as satisfying anymore as his albums were to me during the WB years. It misses innovation, adventure, good lyrics and good production: all the things his music often had in the 80's. The new songs are often weaker variations of songs he did in the past, and are often safe and (a bit) boring IMO, or just don't have any appeal to me.

I think he is a great musician and a great performer, but in the end Prince is more a jack of all trades, and not "the best songwriter" or "the best guitar player" or anything like that. Perhaps "the most complete artist" would be a more fitting title for Prince, with him having done so much different stuff (playing instruments, writing songs, music production, dancing, performing etc.)...

you know what, at least i agree with you. on all points. breakdown is just another horrible ballad. i wish he'd never had success with songs like 'diamonds and pearls' and 'the most beautiful...'. flops such as 'betcha by golly wow' and 'the greatest romance...' should have deterred him from constantly re-visiting that territory. but, as you said, he's really not that great of a songwriter. not that he hasn't written an incredible, absolutely mind-blowingly great amount of incredible songs. no, it's just that for every good song he's written, there's 5 songs'o'shite. his many failures in the writing-department must not be overlooked. as the great, late klaus kinski once said: "one should judge a man mainly from his depravities. virtues can be faked. depravities are real".

Shawy89 said:

• Prince is not as good as he used to be. That's something everyone should admit, the appreciation he gets for his new songs is just a fanatic behavior. If somebody else, say, Justin Timberlake released any song Prince released in the past few months, he would be smacked.
• Fans need to stop for a second, and see things in a different way. Prince was never the greatest songwriter of all time, facts prove that other musicians were more innovative & groundbreaking in songwriting.
• Fans need to stop saying "Prince plays 29 instruments" because that's not true, Prince plays only essential instruments (Piano, guitar, drums, keyboard...) And other instruments are just sub instruments, cuz if you can play the acoustic guitar, you can play the ukele, the slide guitar and the electric guitar. That thing is becoming a taboo we shouldn't talk about, what? Prince is no god, he's just a normal musician, he is talented, but we should stop saying that he plays instruments more than any musician, plus, we don't know anything we never seen, if the credits say "Prince played all the instruments", that's not enough to prove he actually did. He's credited to play sax, harmonica... but we never saw him do that.
• Stop, please, stop comparing Prince to Jimi Hendrix, if Prince was better than Jimi at playing guitar he would ve shown it => He would ve been recognized as the best guitarist of all time, but he never showed anything jaw dropping like Jimi did, he's a monster at playing guitar but he's not the best and we certainly shouldn't compare him to Jimi Hendrix because Jimi is the one who played the guitar with more soul, more talent, more professionally than anyone who has ever lived.

*

In your first point you are being just as circular and subjective as the people you are admonishing by speaking from a position of absolutism. So, because you don't like something then it's terrible? Wow, how not objective of you. On the other hand, from the moment I heard "Musicology" and "Colonized Mind" they immediately became two of my top ten favorite Prince songs, and I've been a fan since 1979. And, no, the fact that "Colonized Mind" is a complete rip-off of someone else's song doesn't bother me because my all-time favorite Prince song, "Party UP," was written by someone else. So, that says what? As for your other points, there is no need for me to repeat what Militant has said so well. What I don't understand, and I guess I'm beating a dead horse because I've asked this questions so many times before, is why you and so many others seem to desire for others to dislike Prince's new music just because you dislike it. I really dislike "I Wonder U" and "The Breakdown," but I'm not starting threads to discuss how much I dislike them just to convince others to dislike them. Rather, I just concentrate on and celebrate what I like. And, if Prince's new work no longer moves you, then why not just find someone whose work does move you. And, yes, there are many fans on this site and elsewhere who attempt to make Prince the God of all things music, but I just ignore them like I try to ignore the many fans on this site who have spent the last ten years complaining that Prince has "lost it".

christobole said:

you know what, at least i agree with you. on all points. breakdown is just another horrible ballad. i wish he'd never had success with songs like 'diamonds and pearls' and 'the most beautiful...'. flops such as 'betcha by golly wow' and 'the greatest romance...' should have deterred him from constantly re-visiting that territory. but, as you said, he's really not that great of a songwriter. not that he hasn't written an incredible, absolutely mind-blowingly great amount of incredible songs. no, it's just that for every good song he's written, there's 5 songs'o'shite. his many failures in the writing-department must not be overlooked. as the great, late klaus kinski once said: "one should judge a man mainly from his depravities. virtues can be faked. depravities are real".

*

Not to be adversarial, but you really don't seem to understand art or the craft of creating art because if you did you would know that the ratio of one great song per every five songs of crap is an amazingly excellent ratio that any artist would love to have. In fact, one great song or poem or short story or novel for every ten crap pieces of work is still a great ratio. One who understands the creative process knows that all artists create mountains of crap before they create something decent and even more mountains of crap before they create something good, and even more mountains of crap before they create something great. The notion of the artist that only creates greatness is a myth. As such, I'll respond to your Kinski statement with a simple "one is most remembered not for one's successes but for how one responds to one's failures and life's torments."

1725topp said:

1725topp said:

christobole said:

you know what, at least i agree with you. on all points. breakdown is just another horrible ballad. i wish he'd never had success with songs like 'diamonds and pearls' and 'the most beautiful...'. flops such as 'betcha by golly wow' and 'the greatest romance...' should have deterred him from constantly re-visiting that territory. but, as you said, he's really not that great of a songwriter. not that he hasn't written an incredible, absolutely mind-blowingly great amount of incredible songs. no, it's just that for every good song he's written, there's 5 songs'o'shite. his many failures in the writing-department must not be overlooked. as the great, late klaus kinski once said: "one should judge a man mainly from his depravities. virtues can be faked. depravities are real".

*

Not to be adversarial, but you really don't seem to understand art or the craft of creating art because if you did you would know that the ratio of one great song per every five songs of crap is an amazingly excellent ratio that any artist would love to have. In fact, one great song or poem or short story or novel for every ten crap pieces of work is still a great ratio. One who understands the creative process knows that all artists create mountains of crap before they create something decent and even more mountains of crap before they create something good, and even more mountains of crap before they create something great. The notion of the artist that only creates greatness is a myth. As such, I'll respond to your Kinski statement with a simple "one is most remembered not for one's successes but for how one responds to one's failures and life's torments."

Congratulations - you understand the ratio of great art vs. bad art very well indeed. And speaking of it: sometimes a great writer will even refuse to publish anything for 50 years (J.D. Salinger), a great composer will work on a piece for 20 years (Brahms' 1st symphony), etc... But what a great artist won't do is unload the 80% poop of his work onto an audience for 20 years or more. Great artists understand this very well. In fact, the "quote" you've responded with, illustrates Prince's greatest artistic failure perfectly: to not have answered to his potential of greatness, to not have furthered his considerable gifts in all these years. If you had an inkling of what it takes to create great art, you might comprehend this. However, appreciating one stillborn idea of a song after another won't help you.

[Edited 5/22/14 1:12am]

Shawy89 said:

• Prince is not as good as he used to be. That's something everyone should admit, the appreciation he gets for his new songs is just a fanatic behavior. If somebody else, say, Justin Timberlake released any song Prince released in the past few months, he would be smacked.
• Fans need to stop for a second, and see things in a different way. Prince was never the greatest songwriter of all time, facts prove that other musicians were more innovative & groundbreaking in songwriting.
• Fans need to stop saying "Prince plays 29 instruments" because that's not true, Prince plays only essential instruments (Piano, guitar, drums, keyboard...) And other instruments are just sub instruments, cuz if you can play the acoustic guitar, you can play the ukele, the slide guitar and the electric guitar. That thing is becoming a taboo we shouldn't talk about, what? Prince is no god, he's just a normal musician, he is talented, but we should stop saying that he plays instruments more than any musician, plus, we don't know anything we never seen, if the credits say "Prince played all the instruments", that's not enough to prove he actually did. He's credited to play sax, harmonica... but we never saw him do that.
• Stop, please, stop comparing Prince to Jimi Hendrix, if Prince was better than Jimi at playing guitar he would ve shown it => He would ve been recognized as the best guitarist of all time, but he never showed anything jaw dropping like Jimi did, he's a monster at playing guitar but he's not the best and we certainly shouldn't compare him to Jimi Hendrix because Jimi is the one who played the guitar with more soul, more talent, more professionally than anyone who has ever lived.

Prince is as good as he always has been.He hasn't lost his mojo.He hasn't stopped creating.Fingers crossed he releases more albums and carries on.He's so interesting that people on fan sites spend ages elequently writing about him in a negative way,possibly more than in a positive way.Put ANY album by Prince on from beginning to end and enjoy it for what it is.Funky rocky jazzy music about sex and parties.Its not deep.its just bloody good.I find it funny that everything in the arts has to be the most this and the best that.Its not a competition.Prince probably isn't competitive.He probably just HAS to create something every day after his captain crunch with soyamilk otherwise he feels like a day was wasted.Its not for us.so lets not get too worked up about it.

christobole said:

1725topp said:

*

Not to be adversarial, but you really don't seem to understand art or the craft of creating art because if you did you would know that the ratio of one great song per every five songs of crap is an amazingly excellent ratio that any artist would love to have. In fact, one great song or poem or short story or novel for every ten crap pieces of work is still a great ratio. One who understands the creative process knows that all artists create mountains of crap before they create something decent and even more mountains of crap before they create something good, and even more mountains of crap before they create something great. The notion of the artist that only creates greatness is a myth. As such, I'll respond to your Kinski statement with a simple "one is most remembered not for one's successes but for how one responds to one's failures and life's torments."

Congratulations - you understand the ratio of great art vs. bad art very well indeed. And speaking of it: sometimes a great writer will even refuse to publish anything for 50 years (J.D. Salinger), a great composer will work on a piece for 20 years (Brahms' 1st symphony), etc... But what a great artist won't do is unload the 80% poop of his work onto an audience for 20 years or more. Great artists understand this very well. In fact, the "quote" you've responded with, illustrates Prince's greatest artistic failure perfectly: to not have answered to his potential of greatness, to not have furthered his considerable gifts in all these years. If you had an inkling of what it takes to create great art, you might comprehend this. However, appreciating one stillborn idea of a song after another won't help you.

[Edited 5/22/14 1:12am]

*

I should have first noted how circular and subjective your first post was: you dislike something so it must be crap. While I don't like "The Breakdown," I greatly appreciate songs, such as "TGRES," "Diamonds and Pearls," and "TMBGITW," because I have wide-ranging tastes that allow me to appreciate those types of songs as well as rock and funk. So, while you have your right to your artistic taste, of course, nothing that you have said proves them to be crap. Secondly, while great artists do labor over works for years, that does not mean that laboring over them guarantees that they will be well-received. The laboring may enable them to craft works in a particular way, but even if they accomplish their goal/structure/form of production that still does not guarantee that the work will be well-received or noted as great. Thus, as for J. D. Salinger, Catcher in the Rye is well-crafted, as well as some of his short stories, and, yet, over half of his short stories do nothing for me. And, Brahms' "Symphony No. 1" is perfectly paced and layered, and I like his constant exploration of harmony and rhythm in much of his other work; yet, that same desire to explore harmony and rhythm causes a lot of his tunes to sound/feel/seem fragmented or disjointed to me. So, again, it's a myth that Salinger, Brahms, or anyone else produces greatness every time, no matter how much they labor. And, as for my inkling of what it takes to create great art, whether I have created "great" art is left for others to decide, but I have published poems, short stories, and essays in over 150 literary journals, magazines, and newspapers. So, more than a few editors think I know something about creating art (literature). However, my skills are not the issue. The issue is your skewed or flawed notion that any artist always creates great art. Even with Salinger and Brahms, like with all artists, not all of their work is "great," but sane people don't expect perfection from human beings, and sane people learn to enjoy what they love from Salinger, Brahms, and, even, Prince, and not waste time lamenting over what they don't like. Furthermore, sane people don't waste time berating people who like things that they don't like because sane people are too busy enjoying what they like.

[Flame snip - luv4u]