Any thoughts?

My thoughts...


Helping/stealing addiction

According to Andre, he didn't just create that bassline for Do Me Baby, but Let's Work also. And if you read Waxpoetics, he was very much behind the groove and feel of Controversy. Prince gave Andre The Dance Electric. They would give and take ideas like they were one person divided in two.

-Because Prince and I were so close, I never thought about whether I was ripping him off or he was ripping me off. Literally, we were learning how to do what we do. My bedroom was in the attic, his bedroom was in the basement. I’d write a song and come down and play it for him. He’d write a song and come and play it for me. That was the reality

"Brothers Johson"

According to Andre in an interview, Prince originally wanted the band to be like the Brothers Johnson, with Cymone and Prince at the forefront and the backing band around them. It's hard to say if it's Andre tryingt sound like Prince, or the other way around. Prince was lucky to be signed first, and had Andre in his band when creating both Dirty Mind and Controversy. The sound of Dirty Mind/Controversy and the album Living In The New Wave sounds like two different takes at a very similar sound. Dirty Mind and Controversy being the more nasty sexual pop album take on funky new wave. LITNW being a more nerdy, futuristic and sci fi take on new wave. Both albums being avant gard imo, however it Andres suffers from lack of great songs and lack a charismatic use of voice. Thus making it mostly interesting for music nerds, rather than chart listeners. His vocal abilities has gotten better though, and as a producer and composer Andre Cymone might be a cool sparring partner for Prince right now. Especially since he's doing rock music with success. Not in terms of hits, but in terms of quality.

Raw energy

It's not often I've seen such a raw energy from a rock/funk/new wave group as the Prince band was on the Dirty Mind tour. Everyone that has seen the SNL live version of Party Up knows what I'm talking about.

Creative force

Everyone is talking about The Revolution almost being the only reason Prince had success in the 80s. People forget that Prince was just 20 when he released For You. He had alot to learn. When he teamed up creativly with his band alot more, he was only 22 years old, still they made the classic Dirty Mind. Yeah the pre revolution was partly The Revolution. But do we think Lisa Coleman had more creative input on this album than Andre Cymone? Lisa and Wendy is not the only important creative forces behind Prince. They were great talents that got to work with Prince when he was mature enough to take the next step, yet hungry enough to really push the envelope. Andre worked with Prince when he was very young and kinda naive. They would both become great no matter what. Andres The Stone is imo the best album from the so called Prince camp that isn't made by Prince. The album is so well crafted, I actually think it's a shame it hasn't gotten more recognition. Personally speaking, he is just missing that little extra that would truly liberate him as a front man. Prince qualities when he actually is using it to its full is a portraying something desperate.

Anyways, I just think that them working together again would be great. Atleast they actually worked as equals

I love Andre, and even if everything he says is 100% true, they would not be equals. Never have, never will. There is this strange contigent of folks around here who say that Andre was 100% of the reason Prince had success, and others who say it was Wendy & Lisa, and then the majority...who says it was Prince. Despite some decent success Andre had away from Prince, can you imagine the AC album without "Dance Electric?" It's not like it would have been terrible, but it would have simply gone from a nice associated artist album to a little below PAR.

I'd love to see Prince invite some of the old bandmates back to tour...but doubt Andre could really add anything to Prince's sound. The Stone is a nice comeback for Andre, and I'm glad to have him back. Prince did fine with him, and fine without him.

Andre is the missing ingredient. I've been saying that for years. I first heard that from an older cousin of mind all the way back in the Purple Rain Era. I think we have enough known facts at this point to say that it's actually true. Andre has a type of cretive genious that is highly unusual. He can find that one cool element in things that are technically outside of his element or perhaps even his understanding. That's what he did with Kid Kreole and The Time. His influence is all over the early Prince albums but also the protoge albums. Prince put it all together as he saw fit, for which Prince deserves all the credit for that, but without Andre the final product ends up much much diffrent. There is no guarantee Prince ever matures to that next step without, essentially consuming the seeds of Andre's best ideas. You really can't overestimate how important Andre, and also Morris Day were to that foundation, from which Prince launched the Purple Rain era. I doubt they can ever truly reunite, though I would much prefer they all try. Prince, it seems only really stays close with people who share his religion, so I can't see him really being influenced by any of his better collaborators from the past.

So let me get this right: Andre hasn't been around since before the 1999 era, but somehow he is the "missing ingredient"?

stillwaiting said:

I love Andre, and even if everything he says is 100% true, they would not be equals. Never have, never will. There is this strange contigent of folks around here who say that Andre was 100% of the reason Prince had success, and others who say it was Wendy & Lisa, and then the majority...who says it was Prince. Despite some decent success Andre had away from Prince, can you imagine the AC album without "Dance Electric?" It's not like it would have been terrible, but it would have simply gone from a nice associated artist album to a little below PAR.

I'd love to see Prince invite some of the old bandmates back to tour...but doubt Andre could really add anything to Prince's sound. The Stone is a nice comeback for Andre, and I'm glad to have him back. Prince did fine with him, and fine without him.

I totally agree with you. I love Andre's CD "The Stone". However, Prince has continued to make music in spite of Andre and W & L. If Prince made it because of Andre and W&L, why didn't they continue with their music and obtain the same level of success that Prince has achieved? Where you like all of Prince's output of music or not, the boy is very productive and doesn't need anyone to create his music for him. Just saying....

Se7en said:

So let me get this right: Andre hasn't been around since before the 1999 era, but somehow he is the "missing ingredient"?

Yeah.. to the magic of that era. Andre and Morris are the key collaborators to the Controvery era. W&L are the key collaborators during Purple Rain era. There is the Levi Seacer Jr albums. Today Josh appears tp be a key collaborator. See where I'm going? Some people just appreciate Prince no matter what, other people have their preferences in terms of albums, or eras, or whatever. IMO, Prince needs someone like Andre to ignite his creativity, in a way that closer to what people are looking for when they buy Prince records.

Good to have a thread devoted to remembering Andre, when there's one going strong about W&L. Something about those performances, including SNL always felt unrealized to me though - or a tad amateurish... but I mean that in agood way, I liked it. When Prince got rid of Andre, he kind of shed that kids at play vibe they had...but I do kind of long to see the adult version of that re-formed. I might even be more excited to see that than a W&L thing. Throw in Dez or Jesse Johnson, and I can see a lot of really talented guys who would benefit from getting back in the same room together. Not to save Prince or anything like that. I just think those guys make each other better.

funksterr said:

Se7en said:

So let me get this right: Andre hasn't been around since before the 1999 era, but somehow he is the "missing ingredient"?

Yeah.. to the magic of that era. Andre and Morris are the key collaborators to the Controvery era. W&L are the key collaborators during Purple Rain era. There is the Levi Seacer Jr albums. Today Josh appears tp be a key collaborator. See where I'm going? Some people just appreciate Prince no matter what, other people have their preferences in terms of albums, or eras, or whatever. IMO, Prince needs someone like Andre to ignite his creativity, in a way that closer to what people are looking for when they buy Prince records.

I see what you're saying now, and I agree. Sorta like McCartney/Lennon, someone to bounce ideas off of and end up taking something that was already amazing and propelling it into genius.

.

After reading that, it's almost a little sad that Prince has not had ONE single constant throughout his career. I think Dr. Fink and Sheila E. spent the most time in his bands. Then again, depending on what you read, the bands were all just a front and he did everything himself.

[Edited 5/20/14 4:02am]

funksterr said:

Se7en said:

So let me get this right: Andre hasn't been around since before the 1999 era, but somehow he is the "missing ingredient"?

Yeah.. to the magic of that era. Andre and Morris are the key collaborators to the Controvery era. W&L are the key collaborators during Purple Rain era. There is the Levi Seacer Jr albums. Today Josh appears tp be a key collaborator. See where I'm going? Some people just appreciate Prince no matter what, other people have their preferences in terms of albums, or eras, or whatever. IMO, Prince needs someone like Andre to ignite his creativity, in a way that closer to what people are looking for when they buy Prince records.

Andre had zero input, and hardly any influence at all on Purple Rain, Around The World, Parade, and the masterpiece SOTT, or Lovesexy. Case closed. Andre was a missing ingredient on all of those. Still, Andre, Wendy & Lisa are an important part of Prince's legacy, but you could trade those all for other capable musicians and contributors and Prince still would have been Prince.

stillwaiting said:

funksterr said:

Yeah.. to the magic of that era. Andre and Morris are the key collaborators to the Controvery era. W&L are the key collaborators during Purple Rain era. There is the Levi Seacer Jr albums. Today Josh appears tp be a key collaborator. See where I'm going? Some people just appreciate Prince no matter what, other people have their preferences in terms of albums, or eras, or whatever. IMO, Prince needs someone like Andre to ignite his creativity, in a way that closer to what people are looking for when they buy Prince records.

Andre had zero input, and hardly any influence at all on Purple Rain, Around The World, Parade, and the masterpiece SOTT, or Lovesexy. Case closed. Andre was a missing ingredient on all of those. Still, Andre, Wendy & Lisa are an important part of Prince's legacy, but you could trade those all for other capable musicians and contributors and Prince still would have been Prince.

Really? That's a strong statement right there. I feel like, as talented as Prince is, he rarely puts it all together without a strong influence in the band, to push and pull against. Prince pretty much consumed and reworked a great deal of Andre's music in 1981-1982 and used it to flesh out various projects. Even with that he needed key contributions from Dr Fink, Dez and Jesse Johnson to complete various tracks on a lot of the albums. Prince is often the only guy whose parts make it to the master, but in a lot of cases 30% or so of some of those albums are other people's contributing ideas and there is nothing wrong with that. That's why I say if you swap out those people for someone else... the albums are going to be different, perhaps not that good. If you look at how Taja Seville's albums were done, Madonna, Carmen, NPG, Sheila E, most everybody really since the beginning... Prince contributes tracks. He doesn't usually write the entire album on his own from scratch. So then his collaborators become a major ingredient in the soup. Now what's the foundation of Prince's sound? It's the Controversy era. Without Andre, The Time is different. Vanity 6 is different. Perhaps both never even happen because he was the one who pitched Prince on the idea in the first place. No Time? Then Purple Rain, loses Morris Day and isn't watchable. It snowballs. Andre is the man. Prince doesn't have a relationship with anybody right now that's bearing fruit like what Andre gave him, willingly or unwillingly, lol, back in the day.

funksterr said:

Replica said:

funksterr said:

Really? That's a strong statement right there. I feel like, as talented as Prince is, he rarely puts it all together without a strong influence in the band, to push and pull against. Prince pretty much consumed and reworked a great deal of Andre's music in 1981-1982 and used it to flesh out various projects. Even with that he needed key contributions from Dr Fink, Dez and Jesse Johnson to complete various tracks on a lot of the albums. Prince is often the only guy whose parts make it to the master, but in a lot of cases 30% or so of some of those albums are other people's contributing ideas and there is nothing wrong with that. That's why I say if you swap out those people for someone else... the albums are going to be different, perhaps not that good. If you look at how Taja Seville's albums were done, Madonna, Carmen, NPG, Sheila E, most everybody really since the beginning... Prince contributes tracks. He doesn't usually write the entire album on his own from scratch. So then his collaborators become a major ingredient in the soup. Now what's the foundation of Prince's sound? It's the Controversy era. Without Andre, The Time is different. Vanity 6 is different. Perhaps both never even happen because he was the one who pitched Prince on the idea in the first place. No Time? Then Purple Rain, loses Morris Day and isn't watchable. It snowballs. Andre is the man. Prince doesn't have a relationship with anybody right now that's bearing fruit like what Andre gave him, willingly or unwillingly, lol, back in the day.

I think they would be different for better or worse. I believe Prince is (was) a music genius. I think these periods would just sound different with other sparring partners. There's a bunch of talented producers out there producing hits and sometimes classics more or less by themselves. I bet thus would not be a big deal for Prince either in his hey days. Either you get influence within your band, or you get it somewhere else. Pharrell often makes beats by listening to another song, and start by jamming the same or similar chords. The thing is, I don't think Prince cared where his stuff came from, he'd just use whatever was the best idea at the time. But he also had the skill to get something out if it. However him using the best ideas at the spot made him more effective and able to produce music much faster.

To me, Prince was the same tour-de-force super talent from Controversy right through Emancipation. I feel like all his collaborators, from Chris Moon to Kirk Johnson all got essentially the same guy operating at the same talent level. Yet Andre, W&L and Eric Leeds all leave their mark in a way you can hear. You can identify Andre's absence in the Purple Rain era, for example. It's not the same. Of course, that ushered in another type of greatness with W&L, Sheila, Eric and David Z, but... if you liked Andre's thing, it's all over The Controversy Era. And if you like what Tony M and Levi brought to the table as writers, then you can't miss them all over the Diamonds And Pearl Era. But I sometimes think it's hard for people to hear where Prince stops and his collaborators begin. I think it's easier on the more recent albums and the first Prince album to hear pure Prince, but then, for me, those albums aren't as sastifying. Prince remains a musical genius, but he's spread thin, without quality collaborators, on some albums. Andre gave him quality inspiration.

I thought this was a thread about Andre 3000.

I wish!!!!!!

Se7en said:

So let me get this right: Andre hasn't been around since before the 1999 era, but somehow he is the "missing ingredient"?

Andre was -Dirty Mind era

BrownMark Controversy era -

.

I do feel that there will always be a different connection with people (we)/Prince 'grew up with' or people/family we were connected to say for Prince 'Pre-SuperStardom'

.

But I'm not saying anyone is a missing ingredient, but would love for Prince to do some work with combinations of the 1980s group, the 1990s group 2000s group. At this point in his career, it would be a cool mix up,

OldFriends4Sale said:

Se7en said:

So let me get this right: Andre hasn't been around since before the 1999 era, but somehow he is the "missing ingredient"?

Andre was -Dirty Mind era

BrownMark Controversy era -

.

I do feel that there will always be a different connection with people (we)/Prince 'grew up with' or people/family we were connected to say for Prince 'Pre-SuperStardom'

.

But I'm not saying anyone is a missing ingredient, but would love for Prince to do some work with combinations of the 1980s group, the 1990s group 2000s group. At this point in his career, it would be a cool mix up,

Although BrownMark was touring with Prince on the Controversy tour, Andre stayed with Prince until the album was finished. He just quite before the Controversy tour began. And if we listen to their solo stuff, Andre was alot more creative as a producer than Brownmark, and he still proves to be even better at putting together an album than he was. In fact his latest album The Stone is not just good for an affiliated. It's a seriously high level production and a more than well composed album. It just lacks a little bit of "it factor", making it impossible for a 55-56 year old lesser known artist to really break through with it. His lyrics are also nice, but not groundbreaking. player.

From what I've heard so far Andre had quite an involvement in this era...

Uptown bassline, Do Me baby music and lyrics, Lets Work bassline, Black Sweat/Neon Pussycat (drum programming), Controversy groove... I'm sure there's a bunch more stuff that they never told us, or was not as evident.

Even though Andre stopped playing with Prince, I'm sure Prince never forgot all the good stuff they both learned from eachother. They were more or less like brothers, so I bet they both had alot of the same influences naturally by living together in a time with no internett. Prince just had the it factor, the work ethic, the personality and making shit WORK. That's what truly seperates him from other great musicians he worked with. But Andre was really the nerd to work with. His addiction to different New Wave acts like Devo etc... must have left a print on Prince music...



This was made in 1980... mix this with funk and you'll have a Controversy sound for sure. Put some Gary Numan on top and we're even closer

Replica said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Andre was -Dirty Mind era

BrownMark Controversy era -

.

I do feel that there will always be a different connection with people (we)/Prince 'grew up with' or people/family we were connected to say for Prince 'Pre-SuperStardom'

.

But I'm not saying anyone is a missing ingredient, but would love for Prince to do some work with combinations of the 1980s group, the 1990s group 2000s group. At this point in his career, it would be a cool mix up,

Although BrownMark was touring with Prince on the Controversy tour, Andre stayed with Prince until the album was finished. He just quite before the Controversy tour began. And if we listen to their solo stuff, Andre was alot more creative as a producer than Brownmark, and he still proves to be even better at putting together an album than he was. In fact his latest album The Stone is not just good for an affiliated. It's a seriously high level production and a more than well composed album. It just lacks a little bit of "it factor", making it impossible for a 55-56 year old lesser known artist to really break through with it. His lyrics are also nice, but not groundbreaking. player.

From what I've heard so far Andre had quite an involvement in this era...

Uptown bassline, Do Me baby music and lyrics, Lets Work bassline, Black Sweat/Neon Pussycat (drum programming), Controversy groove... I'm sure there's a bunch more stuff that they never told us, or was not as evident.

Even though Andre stopped playing with Prince, I'm sure Prince never forgot all the good stuff they both learned from eachother. They were more or less like brothers, so I bet they both had alot of the same influences naturally by living together in a time with no internett. Prince just had the it factor, the work ethic, the personality and making shit WORK. That's what truly seperates him from other great musicians he worked with. But Andre was really the nerd to work with. His addiction to different New Wave acts like Devo etc... must have left a print on Prince music...

Yeah your right, Andre worked with Prince as well on Controversy. I was more or less reply to the comment that Andre worked with Prince till the 1999 album.

.

I would love for Prince to do something with Andre, Gayle Chapman, Morris Day, Lisa Coleman,

It's time to release The Rebels!

funksterr said:

stillwaiting said:

Andre had zero input, and hardly any influence at all on Purple Rain, Around The World, Parade, and the masterpiece SOTT, or Lovesexy. Case closed. Andre was a missing ingredient on all of those. Still, Andre, Wendy & Lisa are an important part of Prince's legacy, but you could trade those all for other capable musicians and contributors and Prince still would have been Prince.

Really? That's a strong statement right there. I feel like, as talented as Prince is, he rarely puts it all together without a strong influence in the band, to push and pull against. Prince pretty much consumed and reworked a great deal of Andre's music in 1981-1982 and used it to flesh out various projects. Even with that he needed key contributions from Dr Fink, Dez and Jesse Johnson to complete various tracks on a lot of the albums. Prince is often the only guy whose parts make it to the master, but in a lot of cases 30% or so of some of those albums are other people's contributing ideas and there is nothing wrong with that. That's why I say if you swap out those people for someone else... the albums are going to be different, perhaps not that good. If you look at how Taja Seville's albums were done, Madonna, Carmen, NPG, Sheila E, most everybody really since the beginning... Prince contributes tracks. He doesn't usually write the entire album on his own from scratch. So then his collaborators become a major ingredient in the soup. Now what's the foundation of Prince's sound? It's the Controversy era. Without Andre, The Time is different. Vanity 6 is different. Perhaps both never even happen because he was the one who pitched Prince on the idea in the first place. No Time? Then Purple Rain, loses Morris Day and isn't watchable. It snowballs. Andre is the man. Prince doesn't have a relationship with anybody right now that's bearing fruit like what Andre gave him, willingly or unwillingly, lol, back in the day.

30%

databank said:

It's time to release The Rebels!

I'm with U

I thought you were talking about Andre3000...I was like: "When did them muthafunkers work together?"

Andre Cymone? Nah, Prince accomplished his career his way.

Replica said:

even though Brownnark supposedly was an even more on point bass player and behind Mazariti, his solo stuff was a mess and sounded like bubble gum pop with no edge.

Naw bro.

paulludvig said:

funksterr said:

Really? That's a strong statement right there. I feel like, as talented as Prince is, he rarely puts it all together without a strong influence in the band, to push and pull against. Prince pretty much consumed and reworked a great deal of Andre's music in 1981-1982 and used it to flesh out various projects. Even with that he needed key contributions from Dr Fink, Dez and Jesse Johnson to complete various tracks on a lot of the albums. Prince is often the only guy whose parts make it to the master, but in a lot of cases 30% or so of some of those albums are other people's contributing ideas and there is nothing wrong with that. That's why I say if you swap out those people for someone else... the albums are going to be different, perhaps not that good. If you look at how Taja Seville's albums were done, Madonna, Carmen, NPG, Sheila E, most everybody really since the beginning... Prince contributes tracks. He doesn't usually write the entire album on his own from scratch. So then his collaborators become a major ingredient in the soup. Now what's the foundation of Prince's sound? It's the Controversy era. Without Andre, The Time is different. Vanity 6 is different. Perhaps both never even happen because he was the one who pitched Prince on the idea in the first place. No Time? Then Purple Rain, loses Morris Day and isn't watchable. It snowballs. Andre is the man. Prince doesn't have a relationship with anybody right now that's bearing fruit like what Andre gave him, willingly or unwillingly, lol, back in the day.

30%

Are you saying the percentage is higher or lower? Or do you think 30% is too insignificant to matter? I'm not saying Prince is not more than capable on his own, just that with the right people around his talent comes across even stronger.

funksterr said:

funksterr said:

paulludvig said:

30%

Are you saying the percentage is higher or lower? Or do you think 30% is too insignificant to matter? I'm not saying Prince is not more than capable on his own, just that with the right people around his talent comes across even stronger.

I thought 30% was very specific. Comically so. Agree with the rest of the statement.

[Edited 5/22/14 4:34am]

funksterr said:

Replica said:

funksterr said: I think they would be different for better or worse. I believe Prince is (was) a music genius. I think these periods would just sound different with other sparring partners. There's a bunch of talented producers out there producing hits and sometimes classics more or less by themselves. I bet thus would not be a big deal for Prince either in his hey days. Either you get influence within your band, or you get it somewhere else. Pharrell often makes beats by listening to another song, and start by jamming the same or similar chords. The thing is, I don't think Prince cared where his stuff came from, he'd just use whatever was the best idea at the time. But he also had the skill to get something out if it. However him using the best ideas at the spot made him more effective and able to produce music much faster.

To me, Prince was the same tour-de-force super talent from Controversy right through Emancipation. I feel like all his collaborators, from Chris Moon to Kirk Johnson all got essentially the same guy operating at the same talent level. Yet Andre, W&L and Eric Leeds all leave their mark in a way you can hear. You can identify Andre's absence in the Purple Rain era, for example. It's not the same. Of course, that ushered in another type of greatness with W&L, Sheila, Eric and David Z, but... if you liked Andre's thing, it's all over The Controversy Era. And if you like what Tony M and Levi brought to the table as writers, then you can't miss them all over the Diamonds And Pearl Era. But I sometimes think it's hard for people to hear where Prince stops and his collaborators begin. I think it's easier on the more recent albums and the first Prince album to hear pure Prince, but then, for me, those albums aren't as sastifying. Prince remains a musical genius, but he's spread thin, without quality collaborators, on some albums. Andre gave him quality inspiration.

This about brought me to tears. I can imagine legions of Tony M fans Marching on Paisley Park asking that he be reinstated. I can see them chanting his "Mr Money Minder" speech at the end of Jughead during a candlelight vigil in his honor.

Ok, so I have never heard ONE person mention that they even SLIGHTLY miss Tony M. Maybe a few Levi fans for his bass playing, but he didn't bring much as a writer...maybe "Sex," but it wasn't that great a B-Side in my opinion.

Militant said:

Replica said:

Naw bro.

Man I totally forgot about his solo stuff and his video. It was better when I didnt remember...

2020 said:

Militant said:

Naw bro.

Man I totally forgot about his solo stuff and his video. It was better when I didnt remember...

Can't really see how it's possible to release something that ok quality of music, and then follow up with this kind of "quality" years later



Not hating, I just don't think this is one of his skills worth mentioning. He is an incredible bassist. I find it weird that some people think of him of an overall bigger talent than Andre.

as his bass player he was unbeatable