Hi!

So amidst all the excitement and dreaming, I'm thinking about possible blu-ray releases of these epic concerts. However if they were shot on video (as opposed to film), they could look pretty bad in HD, and we may have to settle for dvd (if we get 'em at all).

So, does anyone know if they were shot on film or video?

On film or on video tape.

Doozer said:

"Video" is shot - nothing is shot "on video." Are you asking if these were shot on film vs shot digitally, maybe? [Edited 4/20/14 11:27am]

You can shoot on videotape. Even shoot digital to tape. (In fact you can back up all your computer files to tape if they are that valuable).

Two of the above ('85 and '88) were shot on video(tape) in SD. There was nothing digital about it back then. All analog.

'86 Birthday looked like film from what I remember. Don't have it handy.

Thank you, ufoclub. I had a feeling you'd be by.

The Syracuse show looks like it was shot with a darkly lit 1972 Video Recorder on a Tonka Truck. It is so badly lit, I can't see much most of the time. Nice show though. Maybe somebody can "remaster" it....though I wouldn't expect much can be done. Maybe they could make the "Yankee Doodle Dandy" crap a bonus feature...as it's one of those few moments in early Prince shows where I was bored.

stillwaiting said:

The Syracuse show looks like it was shot with a darkly lit 1972 Video Recorder on a Tonka Truck. It is so badly lit, I can't see much most of the time. Nice show though. Maybe somebody can "remaster" it....though I wouldn't expect much can be done. Maybe they could make the "Yankee Doodle Dandy" crap a bonus feature...as it's one of those few moments in early Prince shows where I was bored.

I was perusing The Databank Offline today and according to the author of that site the 2004 release Syracuse And The World by the bootleg label Fullasoul is a significant improvement over the official release, particularly regarding the darkness issue:

"A lesson in how to successfully merge re-mastered video footage with re-mastered sound. The picture is a VAST improvement over the official release (this is taken from Laser Disc). The colours are sharp and clear .The lighting for the show can be very dark at times, and that was the main problem with the official product - it was hard to see what was happening on stage sometimes.......but no more! It is actually possible to see what is happening during the 'Yankee Doodle' interlude, you can now see the crowd BEHIND the stage, and you can see the 'bath scene' now (the lighting was WAY too blurred & blue before)."

If a bootleg label can make such an improvement, I would imagine that Warners or whoever would be handling such a release could at least do as well remastering, if not better.

RaspBerryGirlFriend said:

stillwaiting said:

The Syracuse show looks like it was shot with a darkly lit 1972 Video Recorder on a Tonka Truck. It is so badly lit, I can't see much most of the time. Nice show though. Maybe somebody can "remaster" it....though I wouldn't expect much can be done. Maybe they could make the "Yankee Doodle Dandy" crap a bonus feature...as it's one of those few moments in early Prince shows where I was bored.

I was perusing The Databank Offline today and according to the author of that site the 2004 release Syracuse And The World by the bootleg label Fullasoul is a significant improvement over the official release, particularly regarding the darkness issue:

"A lesson in how to successfully merge re-mastered video footage with re-mastered sound. The picture is a VAST improvement over the official release (this is taken from Laser Disc). The colours are sharp and clear .The lighting for the show can be very dark at times, and that was the main problem with the official product - it was hard to see what was happening on stage sometimes.......but no more! It is actually possible to see what is happening during the 'Yankee Doodle' interlude, you can now see the crowd BEHIND the stage, and you can see the 'bath scene' now (the lighting was WAY too blurred & blue before)."

If a bootleg label can make such an improvement, I would imagine that Warners or whoever would be handling such a release could at least do as well remastering, if not better.

Despite it being an awesome concert...they can't prevent the Yankee Doodle thing from being Boring...good lighting or not. I have the bootleg DVD and it does look much better, but the show overall is still poorly lit. The Dortmund show and Parade shows look much better.

Syracuse appears to be video, but the birthday show looks like film! Never saw Dortmund

The 86 Detroit show was film. I attended the show the night before and it was being filmed as well.

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The Syracuse show was video taped as mentioned above.

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I'm not sure about the Dortmund show since I've never seen the "official" one.

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You can usually tell by the glossy soap opera look if it was video taped. Film tends to have a more realistic look to me.

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Does anyone remember the 1998 Essence Awards? The show was video taped as most are but when he performed the Cross/Christ it switched to a film look. I thought that was odd.

The Dortmund show was a live broadcast in 1988 on TV...

It was most likely native PAL video. It was also on PAL laserdisc, edited off the live videorecording.

Whatever company has the negatives to the 86 show... that could be rescanned in HD and put to blu-ray or on itunes HD...etc.

ufoclub said:

Whatever company has the negatives to the 86 show... that could be rescanned in HD and put to blu-ray or on itunes HD...etc.

Droooooool...

Cinny said:

Syracuse appears to be video, but the birthday show looks like film! Never saw Dortmund

!! You need Dortmund in your life.

I would like all of the above and if anything could be done to improve 8.3.83 at First Ave. I'd like to have it, too.

ufoclub said:

The Dortmund show was a live broadcast in 1988 on TV...

It was most likely native PAL video. It was also on PAL laserdisc, edited off the live videorecording.

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Weren't there some differences between the live broadcast and the released video, i.e. some different edits that suggested there had been some corrections?

BartVanHemelen said:

ufoclub said:

The Dortmund show was a live broadcast in 1988 on TV...

It was most likely native PAL video. It was also on PAL laserdisc, edited off the live videorecording.

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Weren't there some differences between the live broadcast and the released video, i.e. some different edits that suggested there had been some corrections?

Yes, (and this is from memory) bootlegs of the live broadcast show a few minor shot changes were made for distribution, and perhaps some editing of the break between halfs, but nothing that really changes the main content of the show.

Also, strangely of course, the VHS halves were presented in reversed order.

Here's a good discussion: http://prince.org/msg/7/368728

[Edited 4/23/14 7:43am]

BartVanHemelen said:

ufoclub said:

The Dortmund show was a live broadcast in 1988 on TV...

It was most likely native PAL video. It was also on PAL laserdisc, edited off the live videorecording.

.

Weren't there some differences between the live broadcast and the released video, i.e. some different edits that suggested there had been some corrections?

Yes.

Not sure if I'd term corrections but definitely differences...the main one I remember was the "aw, come on" comment during the piano medley which was "off screen" on the original late night UK broadcast but a "talking head" on the VHS release.

hw3004 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Weren't there some differences between the live broadcast and the released video, i.e. some different edits that suggested there had been some corrections?

Yes.

Not sure if I'd term corrections but definitely differences...the main one I remember was the "aw, come on" comment during the piano medley which was "off screen" on the original late night UK broadcast but a "talking head" on the VHS release.

So you're saying that moment taken from another night/video or?? (Excuse my ignorance)

I have a rip of the VHS, is the Fullasoul/Superball release from 2005 different/better quality?

hw3004 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Weren't there some differences between the live broadcast and the released video, i.e. some different edits that suggested there had been some corrections?

Yes.

Not sure if I'd term corrections but definitely differences...the main one I remember was the "aw, come on" comment during the piano medley which was "off screen" on the original late night UK broadcast but a "talking head" on the VHS release.

That's a cool detail to know!

Bambi82 said:

hw3004 said:

Yes.

Not sure if I'd term corrections but definitely differences...the main one I remember was the "aw, come on" comment during the piano medley which was "off screen" on the original late night UK broadcast but a "talking head" on the VHS release.

So you're saying that moment taken from another night/video or?? (Excuse my ignorance)

I have a rip of the VHS, is the Fullasoul/Superball release from 2005 different/better quality?

Not a different night - just a different edit of the footage.

Not watched this show in a while but there are a number of versions out there - i think the Fullasoul version is sourced from an original tv broadcast and runs slightly longer than the VHS/ Laserdisc sourced rips. It's certainly worth getting hold of as a companion to the version you have.

hw3004 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Weren't there some differences between the live broadcast and the released video, i.e. some different edits that suggested there had been some corrections?

Yes.

Not sure if I'd term corrections but definitely differences...the main one I remember was the "aw, come on" comment during the piano medley which was "off screen" on the original late night UK broadcast but a "talking head" on the VHS release.

.

I'd label that a correction, i.e. something that was missed during the live broadcast of the show but thankfully was filmed and thus could be fixed on the home release. I recall the odd dodgy camera move in the live feed, so I wouldn't be surprised if those were "fixed" afterwards. Wouldn't surprise me that they had the full feed recorded for each camera, and that they afterwards simply went through the edit that was done live and patched some mistakes.

.

I'm wondering what the original format would be for such a master video, and whether it wouldn't be better if that version is put in as high a quality as possible on a Blu-ray. Surely putting it on DVD is always a downgrade from the source?

BartVanHemelen said:

hw3004 said:

Yes.

Not sure if I'd term corrections but definitely differences...the main one I remember was the "aw, come on" comment during the piano medley which was "off screen" on the original late night UK broadcast but a "talking head" on the VHS release.

.

I'd label that a correction, i.e. something that was missed during the live broadcast of the show but thankfully was filmed and thus could be fixed on the home release. I recall the odd dodgy camera move in the live feed, so I wouldn't be surprised if those were "fixed" afterwards. Wouldn't surprise me that they had the full feed recorded for each camera, and that they afterwards simply went through the edit that was done live and patched some mistakes.

.

I'm wondering what the original format would be for such a master video, and whether it wouldn't be better if that version is put in as high a quality as possible on a Blu-ray. Surely putting it on DVD is always a downgrade from the source?

I'm guessing a European live broadcast in 1988 would have been sports style video studio cameras shooting in interlaced PAL, so a (PAL) DVD from the master tape (or master tape edit) would be the top distribution format (which would be better than the VHS or Laserdisc or the actual live picture at the time).

A Blu-Ray conversion could artificially scale it up and even deinterlace it, but it would still be 4:3, and those enhancements would not add any real picture information, but make I suppose it might make it more compatible with contemporary home theatre systems. And with artifical sharpening, it might be made to look more "HD".

Lovesexy Live would have been 720 x 526 pixels to a frame at 25 interlaced frames per second (producing a feeling of 50fps motion).

Putting it to DVD is not a perceptible downgrade from the source, if the source is SD. In reality, DVD is compressed, but the compression is very good (as watching any pro DVD proves). DVD retains the full pixel resolution.

But these days, a quicktime movie download in mp4/H264 format would be the way to go for itunes or online services.

ufoclub said:

I'm guessing a European live broadcast in 1988 would have been sports style video studio cameras shooting in interlaced PAL, so a (PAL) DVD from the master tape (or master tape edit) would be the top distribution format (which would be better than the VHS or Laserdisc or the actual live picture at the time).

A Blu-Ray conversion could artificially scale it up and even deinterlace it, but it would still be 4:3, and those enhancements would not add any real picture information, but make I suppose it might make it more compatible with contemporary home theatre systems. And with artifical sharpening, it might be made to look more "HD".

.

I'm not talking about upscaling etc, simply wondering if the original source wouldn't be better quality than the DVD image.

SmiggyG said:

The 86 Detroit show was film. I attended the show the night before and it was being filmed as well.

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The Syracuse show was video taped as mentioned above.

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I'm not sure about the Dortmund show since I've never seen the "official" one.

.

You can usually tell by the glossy soap opera look if it was video taped. Film tends to have a more realistic look to me.

.

Does anyone remember the 1998 Essence Awards? The show was video taped as most are but when he performed the Cross/Christ it switched to a film look. I thought that was odd.

wow!