joyinrepetition said:

Prince true genius started to become apparent from 1982 through 1989 with high points from late 85 to 87. Just the diversity of songs styles, lyrics and musicianship was unreal. Before this era, Prince had flashes of greatness as he was building up to the Icon he is.

Prince downward trend started around 1994/1995 with the fight with WB. He started to get lazy with his craft giving them inferior product and he seemed to be stuck in a rut, which lasted up until Musicology. It is here (Musicology) where Prince started to show flashes of greatness again as well as playing up to the game of the changing music industry.

From 3121, which to me is a classic, Prince has had a few hiccups along the way (Planet Earth), then back to Lotus/MPLSound/Elixir which was extemely good to 20Ten which was also better than average.

Now it's four years later with a looming album release from 3EG to see if Prince still has any funk left in the tank as a studio artist. I'm hoping for something extemely outside the box, yet funky and raw. I hope he can infuse some of that old Prince magic into his next true release, whenever it drops.

Good overview

I can't believe there is a fan who doesn't understand the background of SOTT in 2014

1986.

fbueller said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Shawy89 said:

I think Prince reached his absoulte peak when he was working on Sign o the Times, all alone, no Revolution, no band, just him and his musicanship.. That's when he got to the absolute genius status. It's his best work.

go back and do your research Shawy89. SOTT, almost everything on it, is from the Dream Factory sessions.

.

Play In the Sunshine (co-lead Susannah Melvoin)

Star Fish & Coffee (co-written/co-lead Susannah Melvoin)

* Rock Hard in a Funk Place (co lead Susannah Melvoin)

Slow Love (not written by Prince, with Wendy & Lisa on vocals and an instrument or 2)

It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night (co-written by Dr Fink, performed by the Revolution on the Parade tour)

Strange Relationships (with Wendy & Lisa)

Those are all I can think of.

.

Do some research on the Dream Factory project.

Even the little outfit Cat wore, was made for Susannah Melvoin

From Dirty Mind onward there were various levels of background/studio/creation involving the bands. From 0-10

I think it's obvious that there was some help from the Revolution, Susannah, and Eric Leeds/Atlanta Bliss during the 1985-1988 explosion of material. But I think much of it was little help. Somebody singing background vocals is not creative input. Sure, Wendy & Lisa likely influenced some of the recordings, and even possibly Prince's creative style at the time. How much? Maybe 10 to 20% of SOTT at the most was helped by Wendy, Lisa, and everyone else combined......and that means to me, Prince's contributions were 80% or more. It's a masterpiece, and Prince is by far the reason why. And the countless outtakes, and other songs from that era...most are largely Prince's creative vision.

stillwaiting said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

go back and do your research Shawy89. SOTT, almost everything on it, is from the Dream Factory sessions.

.

Play In the Sunshine (co-lead Susannah Melvoin)

Star Fish & Coffee (co-written/co-lead Susannah Melvoin)

* Rock Hard in a Funk Place (co lead Susannah Melvoin)

Slow Love (not written by Prince, with Wendy & Lisa on vocals and an instrument or 2)

It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night (co-written by Dr Fink, performed by the Revolution on the Parade tour)

Strange Relationships (with Wendy & Lisa)

Those are all I can think of.

.

Do some research on the Dream Factory project.

Even the little outfit Cat wore, was made for Susannah Melvoin

From Dirty Mind onward there were various levels of background/studio/creation involving the bands. From 0-10

I think it's obvious that there was some help from the Revolution, Susannah, and Eric Leeds/Atlanta Bliss during the 1985-1988 explosion of material. But I think much of it was little help. Somebody singing background vocals is not creative input. Sure, Wendy & Lisa likely influenced some of the recordings, and even possibly Prince's creative style at the time. How much? Maybe 10 to 20% of SOTT at the most was helped by Wendy, Lisa, and everyone else combined......and that means to me, Prince's contributions were 80% or more. It's a masterpiece, and Prince is by far the reason why. And the countless outtakes, and other songs from that era...most are largely Prince's creative vision.

Where did I say creative Input? I'm resonding to the original statement by the OP, as others have. Your statement has nothing to do with what I said. My statement was to contradict what the OP posted:

he was working on Sign o the Times, all alone, no Revolution, no band, just him

^

That statement is 100% incorrect. It's clear the OP does not know the history behind the SOTT album/music nor what proceeded it. ALSO as I've correctly stated in my post you replied to even if SOTT had only 1 song on that album with the Revolution(It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night), it contradicts the OPs statement that SOTT had NO Revolution, NO band, just him

.

And the Dream Factory material as stated by most in the camp was a collaboration of Prince with his band and those in his camp, as well as his own solo stuff. I'll say it again from Dirty Mind - there were various levels of participation from 0 to 10

.

Did you read the original post?, which you should be correcting that one

errant said:

fbueller said:

Possibly. Then again he used to book Sunset Sound for months at a time. Paisley for sure added a lot more overhead for Prince (utilities, taxes, staff). He already had a nice studio in his home. Wonder why he didn't just stick with that?

I guess. But he didn't have a bedroom at Sunset Sound. He wasn't around the equipment and tapes constantly to keep fussing with them and re-re ording and overdubbing the life out of them. And the toys he did have available were what were already there or what he could bring with him. The limitations made him more creative and more efficient. PP made him lazy and somewhat sloppy.

Paisley Park has bigger studio rooms for recording larger ensembles, the acoustics are better and there's also a soundstage (for rehearsals, shooting videos and the occasional live performance).

Although I think the place is a bit of an overkill. I'm sometimes amused by the thought of Prince just being alone there, stomping on his boss pedals and making lofi beats on his Linn.

Like the majority of all singers/artists artisitc peaks are reached in their mid 20s

strangebuttrue

errant said:

fbueller said:

Possibly. Then again he used to book Sunset Sound for months at a time. Paisley for sure added a lot more overhead for Prince (utilities, taxes, staff). He already had a nice studio in his home. Wonder why he didn't just stick with that?

I guess. But he didn't have a bedroom at Sunset Sound. He wasn't around the equipment and tapes constantly to keep fussing with them and re-re ording and overdubbing the life out of them. And the toys he did have available were what were already there or what he could bring with him. The limitations made him more creative and more efficient. PP made him lazy and somewhat sloppy.

He had whatever he wanted at Sunset Sound. The studio surely accommodated him. You think Prince couldn't get access to whatever gear he desired?

He had access to equipment and tapes anytime in his home studios. Studio B at Paisley is modeled after the studio Prince dug at Sunset Sound.

What changed? A difference can be heard in his recordings starting with Lovesexy (which was the first album recorded at Paisley). Susan Rogers, the engineer, was no longer on board. Maybe that has more to do with it.

fbueller said:

errant said:

fbueller said: I guess. But he didn't have a bedroom at Sunset Sound. He wasn't around the equipment and tapes constantly to keep fussing with them and re-re ording and overdubbing the life out of them. And the toys he did have available were what were already there or what he could bring with him. The limitations made him more creative and more efficient. PP made him lazy and somewhat sloppy.

He had whatever he wanted at Sunset Sound. The studio surely accommodated him. You think Prince couldn't get access to whatever gear he desired?

He had access to equipment and tapes anytime in his home studios. Studio B at Paisley is modeled after the studio Prince dug at Sunset Sound.

What changed? A difference can be heard in his recordings starting with Lovesexy (which was the first album recorded at Paisley). Susan Rogers, the engineer, was no longer on board. Maybe that has more to do with it.

What I can hear starting with Lovesexy is an absolute improvement of the engineering quality -at least in terms of depth and cleanness, but I'm no engineer so it's a profane analysis- that kept growing and reached its climax with D&P (and stayed more or less that way ever since). Was this the replacement of Susan or the use of better studios -including but not limited to Pailsey Park- I couldn't say, but it's really obvious at least to my hears. Susan Rogers herself, by the way, said in an interview that her records with Prince were everything but answering to the same professional standards than most other superstars' albums at the time, but that it didn't really matter for the music was wild. Somehow I'd go as far as to say that it may have even benefitted from the oddity of the not-so-pro engineering, which adds to the spontaneity aspects of it.

I'd say he reached his creative/genuis peak in the late 80s with SOTT and Lovesexy.

Eat me --'

You guys are so sensible to this shit you can't even take things easy, I stand corrected, fine? I just started this thread for us to share our opinions. And the moment you say this thread is shitty or uneccessary is the same moment everybody argues with everybody.

I'm not sure why some fans think this question is dumb or unneceassry.Every great artist reaches their creative (genuis) peak at some point.It doesn't mean that everything that comes after is garbage,lol.Stevie Wonder reached his creative peak in 1976 with Songs In The Key Of Life...similar to Prince reaching that point in 1987 with SOTT.

SoulAlive said:

I'm not sure why some fans think this question is dumb or unneceassry.Every great artist reaches their creative (genuis) peak at some point.It doesn't mean that everything that comes after is garbage,lol.Stevie Wonder reached his creative peak in 1976 with Songs In The Key Of Life...similar to Prince reaching that point in 1987 with SOTT.

I disagree with this statement but I respectfully disagree.

databank said:

fbueller said:

He had whatever he wanted at Sunset Sound. The studio surely accommodated him. You think Prince couldn't get access to whatever gear he desired?

He had access to equipment and tapes anytime in his home studios. Studio B at Paisley is modeled after the studio Prince dug at Sunset Sound.

What changed? A difference can be heard in his recordings starting with Lovesexy (which was the first album recorded at Paisley). Susan Rogers, the engineer, was no longer on board. Maybe that has more to do with it.

What I can hear starting with Lovesexy is an absolute improvement of the engineering quality -at least in terms of depth and cleanness, but I'm no engineer so it's a profane analysis- that kept growing and reached its climax with D&P (and stayed more or less that way ever since). Was this the replacement of Susan or the use of better studios -including but not limited to Pailsey Park- I couldn't say, but it's really obvious at least to my hears. Susan Rogers herself, by the way, said in an interview that her records with Prince were everything but answering to the same professional standards than most other superstars' albums at the time, but that it didn't really matter for the music was wild. Somehow I'd go as far as to say that it may have even benefitted from the oddity of the not-so-pro engineering, which adds to the spontaneity aspects of it.

Exactly. His studio work became less spontaneous. No longer was a bit of distorted vocal getting a pass. Dorothy Parker would sound totally different had the recording equipment not been malfunctioning at the time. Little red corvette has blatantly distorting vocals in parts.

Same thing crept into the live shows in recent years. That's what's great with 3rdEyeGirl - Prince got back to a more off-the-cuff way of doing things. That is his essence.

[Edited 3/27/14 12:54pm]

[Edited 3/27/14 13:04pm]

SoulAlive said:

I'm not sure why some fans think this question is dumb or unneceassry.Every great artist reaches their creative (genuis) peak at some point.It doesn't mean that everything that comes after is garbage,lol.Stevie Wonder reached his creative peak in 1976 with Songs In The Key Of Life...similar to Prince reaching that point in 1987 with SOTT.

Both in their mid-to late 20's like I mentioned before.

Artists typically peak in their 20's...simple as that.

[Edited 3/27/14 16:38pm]

2020 said:

SoulAlive said:

I'm not sure why some fans think this question is dumb or unneceassry.Every great artist reaches their creative (genuis) peak at some point.It doesn't mean that everything that comes after is garbage,lol.Stevie Wonder reached his creative peak in 1976 with Songs In The Key Of Life...similar to Prince reaching that point in 1987 with SOTT.

Both in their mid-to late 20's like I mentioned before.

Artists typically peak in their 20's...simple as that.

[Edited 3/27/14 16:38pm]

Maybe pop music artists. I wouldn't say this holds true for other types of music or art.

This is a super obvious answer, but Purple Rain. The progressive song structures, the complex fusion of moods and sonic textures, some of the best lyrics the man ever thought up, the musicianship. Everything came together in a single cohesive statement and some legendary unreleased material and b-sides. There's a reason why that album casts a shadow over everything he's done before or since.

jasminejoey said:

'87-'88 with SOTT/Black Album/Lovesexy was certainly a pinnacle, although I don't think any one album can top 1999.

Yep.

Shockedelicus said:

This is a super obvious answer, but Purple Rain. The progressive song structures, the complex fusion of moods and sonic textures, some of the best lyrics the man ever thought up, the musicianship. Everything came together in a single cohesive statement and some legendary unreleased material and b-sides. There's a reason why that album casts a shadow over everything he's done before or since.

That's a cool description of SOTT.

toejam said:

Maybe Lovesexy.. fantastic era...

However The Gold Experience was incredible too, another peak.

I would say TGE then..

the 1999 album

bigd74 said:

[Edited 3/26/14 14:40pm]

...yeah..seriously....

novabrkr said:

Shockedelicus said:

This is a super obvious answer, but Purple Rain. The progressive song structures, the complex fusion of moods and sonic textures, some of the best lyrics the man ever thought up, the musicianship. Everything came together in a single cohesive statement and some legendary unreleased material and b-sides. There's a reason why that album casts a shadow over everything he's done before or since.

That's a cool description of SOTT.

Both, really. You could say the same for the two albums in between too, IMO.

2020 said:

SoulAlive said:

I'm not sure why some fans think this question is dumb or unneceassry.Every great artist reaches their creative (genuis) peak at some point.It doesn't mean that everything that comes after is garbage,lol.Stevie Wonder reached his creative peak in 1976 with Songs In The Key Of Life...similar to Prince reaching that point in 1987 with SOTT.

Both in their mid-to late 20's like I mentioned before.

Artists typically peak in their 20's...simple as that.

that is true