I think Prince reached his absoulte peak when he was working on Sign o the Times, all alone, no Revolution, no band, just him and his musicanship.. That's when he got to the absolute genius status. It's his best work.

[Edited 3/26/14 14:40pm]

He started the race with his genius peak, if you ask me.

Last week.

Just wait until you hear Madhouse 72.

EddieC said:

Last week.

Just wait until you hear Madhouse 72.

thats some funny shit.

Shawy89 said:

I think Prince reached his absoulte peak when he was working on Sign o the Times, all alone, no Revolution, no band, just him and his musicanship.. That's when he got to the absolute genius status. It's his best work.

SOTT was "all alone, no Revolution, no band, just him"?

I can't wait for the new CD so all thess effin' random threads will subside for about 72 hours!

'87-'88 with SOTT/Black Album/Lovesexy was certainly a pinnacle, although I don't think any one album can top 1999.

Shawy89 said:

I think Prince reached his absoulte peak when he was working on Sign o the Times, all alone, no Revolution, no band, just him and his musicanship.. That's when he got to the absolute genius status. It's his best work.

There is no "Prince alone just him" it's a myth, as much of a myth as the band records are full band efforts and not Prince alone just him (if all that makes any sense at all). And look at the evolution of SOTT - a big slice of it would've been on Dream Factory, so would you push back the absolute genius moniker to the next album along to make sure it was labelled a solo LP?

Yesterday around 7:15 PM

[Edited 3/26/14 18:40pm]

errant said:

Dream Factory/Camille/Crystal Ball/Sign o' the Times. 1986 was a hell of a year in the studio. I think Paisley Park being at his disposal ruined a lot of his instincts. Too much time and too many tools.

exactly what he/she said

I agree with NouveauDance on the fact that SOTT being a solo album more than Parade is a myth. Actually if u check who did what the last 2 Revolution albums were for the most part solo albums and even Purple Rain wasn't that much a group effort even if the band plays a little more on it than on the 2 other records.

I don't adhere to simplistic views of the creative process such as artists reaching an "absolute genius peak" at some specific point in their career. I find things in Dirty Mind that aren't in SOTT and the opposite, and things in SOTT that aren't in Lotusflow3r and the opposite, it's more complex than that.

errant said:

I think Paisley Park being at his disposal ruined a lot of his instincts. Too much time and too many tools.

Possibly. Then again he used to book Sunset Sound for months at a time. Paisley for sure added a lot more overhead for Prince (utilities, taxes, staff). He already had a nice studio in his home. Wonder why he didn't just stick with that?

fbueller said:

errant said:

I think Paisley Park being at his disposal ruined a lot of his instincts. Too much time and too many tools.

Possibly. Then again he used to book Sunset Sound for months at a time. Paisley for sure added a lot more overhead for Prince (utilities, taxes, staff). He already had a nice studio in his home. Wonder why he didn't just stick with that?

Prince had a home studio and other constantly booked studios since Dirty Mind so PP didn't change so much to him IMHO. Why he didn't stick to what he had seems pretty obvious: for one thing he wanted a state of the art studio and could afford it (with WB's money) so why not? When u're a pro, u want the best tools. Then he had a label and was producing loads of other artists for other labels, and he needed a place to rehearse and produce music videos, so it made sense to have several studios at his disposals for all this as well as collaborators such as David Z or Levi Seacer being able to produce side projects under P's supervision. Let's not forget that in the late 80's and first half of the 90's Prince wanted to become an entertainment industry all by himself (a label and production staff but also merchandising, clubs, stores, magazines, comics, TV programs, movies, etc.), so basically he needed a place to centralize as much of it as possible.

Lovesexy for me.

databank said:

fbueller said:

Possibly. Then again he used to book Sunset Sound for months at a time. Paisley for sure added a lot more overhead for Prince (utilities, taxes, staff). He already had a nice studio in his home. Wonder why he didn't just stick with that?

Prince had a home studio and other constantly booked studios since Dirty Mind so PP didn't change so much to him IMHO. Why he didn't stick to what he had seems pretty obvious: for one thing he wanted a state of the art studio and could afford it (with WB's money) so why not? When u're a pro, u want the best tools. Then he had a label and was producing loads of other artists for other labels, and he needed a place to rehearse and produce music videos, so it made sense to have several studios at his disposals for all this as well as collaborators such as David Z or Levi Seacer being able to produce side projects under P's supervision.

Dirty Mind, 1999, Madhouse, and much of the mid-80's material was recorded in his home studios. Hmmm.

He used to have more than one studio going at Sunset Sound before he had Paisley. He had a top notch personal studio built in his home in what 1985/1986? Then turned around and opened Paisley a year later.

Obviously Prince had the opportunity to build Paisley Park. The point is that the studio costs him a lot of money to maintain. That likely caused him to focus more on chasing success. i.e. generate more revenue.

fbueller said:

databank said:

Prince had a home studio and other constantly booked studios since Dirty Mind so PP didn't change so much to him IMHO. Why he didn't stick to what he had seems pretty obvious: for one thing he wanted a state of the art studio and could afford it (with WB's money) so why not? When u're a pro, u want the best tools. Then he had a label and was producing loads of other artists for other labels, and he needed a place to rehearse and produce music videos, so it made sense to have several studios at his disposals for all this as well as collaborators such as David Z or Levi Seacer being able to produce side projects under P's supervision.

Dirty Mind, 1999, Madhouse, and much of the mid-80's material was recorded in his home studios. Hmmm.

He used to have more than one studio going at Sunset Sound before he had Paisley. He had a top notch personal studio built in his home in what 1985/1986? Then turned around and opened Paisley a year later.

Obviously Prince had the opportunity to build Paisley Park. The point is that the studio costs him a lot of money to maintain. That likely caused him to focus more on chasing success. i.e. generate more revenue.

Let's not forget that Prince kept recording in other studios quite often even after he had PP. I think P's obssession for success dates back to the very beginning and had little to do with the costs involved with PP. On the other hand, those probably caused him much stress in the mid 90's to mid 00's when his income was reportedly lower than before, but if he'd been more obssessed by chasing success more than before after getting PP, he'd have done what WB always wanted him to do: release a commercially accessible album every 2 or 3 years, instead of blowing his relationship with them away, playing the risky game of being an independent artist. Anyway someone once stated that P didn't spend more money on PP than many other artists did back then on drugs and luxury artifacts and that it was shocking that people thought he was spending too much money on a studio when they'd have found it natural for him to spend as much on drugs, cars and jewelry.

databank said:

fbueller said:

Dirty Mind, 1999, Madhouse, and much of the mid-80's material was recorded in his home studios. Hmmm.

He used to have more than one studio going at Sunset Sound before he had Paisley. He had a top notch personal studio built in his home in what 1985/1986? Then turned around and opened Paisley a year later.

Obviously Prince had the opportunity to build Paisley Park. The point is that the studio costs him a lot of money to maintain. That likely caused him to focus more on chasing success. i.e. generate more revenue.

Let's not forget that Prince kept recording in other studios quite often even after he had PP. I think P's obssession for success dates back to the very beginning and had little to do with the costs involved with PP. On the other hand, those probably caused him much stress in the mid 90's to mid 00's when his income was reportedly lower than before, but if he'd been more obssessed by chasing success more than before after getting PP, he'd have done what WB always wanted him to do: release a commercially accessible album every 2 or 3 years, instead of blowing his relationship with them away, playing the risky game of being an independent artist. Anyway someone once stated that P didn't spend more money on PP than many other artists did back then on drugs and luxury artifacts and that it was shocking that people thought he was spending too much money on a studio when they'd have found it natural for him to spend as much on drugs, cars and jewelry.

Yeah, Prince continued to keep studios booked in LA whether he was there or not. More money. He had a large staff working for him from 1987-1995. Right? More money. Something changed around 1988 Lovesexy. He lost money on that tour. Diamonds and Pearls was deliberately aiming for commercial success, as was tying in with the Batman film.

Was it much of a risk for Prince to go independent? He knew that even if his record sales dropped - he could always sell concerts.

Of course, Prince always had ambition. But you don't think he felt pressured to start chasing what others were doing? Had he stayed in the home studio/booking studios when needed he could have stayed more focused on the art side of things.

[Edited 3/27/14 3:29am]

[Edited 3/27/14 3:37am]

fbueller said:

databank said:

Let's not forget that Prince kept recording in other studios quite often even after he had PP. I think P's obssession for success dates back to the very beginning and had little to do with the costs involved with PP. On the other hand, those probably caused him much stress in the mid 90's to mid 00's when his income was reportedly lower than before, but if he'd been more obssessed by chasing success more than before after getting PP, he'd have done what WB always wanted him to do: release a commercially accessible album every 2 or 3 years, instead of blowing his relationship with them away, playing the risky game of being an independent artist. Anyway someone once stated that P didn't spend more money on PP than many other artists did back then on drugs and luxury artifacts and that it was shocking that people thought he was spending too much money on a studio when they'd have found it natural for him to spend as much on drugs, cars and jewelry.

Yeah, Prince continued to keep studios booked in LA whether he was there or not. More money. He had a large staff working for him from 1987-1995. Right? More money. Something changed around 1988 Lovesexy. He lost money on that tour. Diamonds and Pearls was deliberately aiming for commercial success, as was tying in with the Batman film.

Was it much of a risk for Prince to go independent? He knew that even if his record sales dropped - he could always sell concerts.

Of course, Prince always had ambition. But you don't think he felt pressured to start chasing what others were doing? He panicked when Rap became hot. He began incorporating rap into his music. Prince used to slay a drum machine. Around 1990 he started doing his take on New Jack Swing in his beats. His sound changed.

[Edited 3/27/14 3:29am]

D&P was clearly aimed to be a major success but overall I think P followed trends as much to still be relevent as to be successful. Most musicians follow trends in their second / third decades and it's quite logical: u don't wanna sound outdated. Then in their third / fourth decade they usually revert to neoclassicism and come back to their original sound and/or musical roots because they have become legend and they don't have anything to prove anymore. I used to be a musician in the early 2000's, doing music that was typical of these years' underground music. If I was still doing music I certainly wouldn't want to sound like 10 years ago and I probably would like to sound "up to date" and that wouldn't have much to do with success, it's another form of competition with your pairs.

[Edited 3/27/14 3:37am]

fbueller said:

There should be no doubt that Prince could have continued in his own lane without trying to fit in so to speak. still waiting for a no holds barred guitar album. [Edited 3/27/14 4:00am]

Well, thing is that I didn't mind him trying to fit it cos I liked the music and honestly even Tony I didn't mind (at least in the studio). But I understand your POV, it's totally respectable. We must also acknowledge the fact that P tried to fit it in more than a way: 91-96 saw him adopting a more traditional R&B repertoire just as much as a more up-to-date one: it was much more than incorporating hip-hop, rap and new jack swing! Integrating the rhythm section of Michael and Sonny, having Levi playing jazz guitar, integrating a full horn section, using the Steeles for bckgrnd vox, having political lyrics about the black condition in the US and even emulating Hendrix with the Undertaker and C&D: the whole Prince musical world, which between 1980 and 1990 was more of a UFO of its own, with little pieces and bits of everything, became a R&B musical world in every possible way. R&B was of course dominant in his 80's music but it wasn't all over the place. I think P's cultural heritage and the need to belong in a community got back to him, consciously or not. Lyrics like Race, We March, the Sacrifice Of Victor, Paris 123456789 (forgot the number sorry), The Good Life, Uncle Sam or Super Hero were absolutely UNTHINKABLE in the mouth of the 80's Prince.

HonestMan13 said:

I can't wait for the new CD so all thess effin' random threads will subside for about 72 hours!

for sure....but longer than 72 hrs ....this new one will suffer more than any other release

80-88 92-97

Prince true genius started to become apparent from 1982 through 1989 with high points from late 85 to 87. Just the diversity of songs styles, lyrics and musicianship was unreal. Before this era, Prince had flashes of greatness as he was building up to the Icon he is.

Prince downward trend started around 1994/1995 with the fight with WB. He started to get lazy with his craft giving them inferior product and he seemed to be stuck in a rut, which lasted up until Musicology. It is here (Musicology) where Prince started to show flashes of greatness again as well as playing up to the game of the changing music industry.

From 3121, which to me is a classic, Prince has had a few hiccups along the way (Planet Earth), then back to Lotus/MPLSound/Elixir which was extemely good to 20Ten which was also better than average.

Now it's four years later with a looming album release from 3EG to see if Prince still has any funk left in the tank as a studio artist. I'm hoping for something extemely outside the box, yet funky and raw. I hope he can infuse some of that old Prince magic into his next true release, whenever it drops.

fishwillbite said:

Taking 1980-88 as his absolute classic years with a near-flawless run of albums, I guess 1984's Purple Rain falls at the very centre of that period of time and to me represents the peak of Prince's creativity (even if it's not my favourite album!)

I'm with U on that. People can say what they want, but 1983/84 Purple Rain was like he was touch by something from above. I think it even scared him. When I listen to the stuff from that period, even like Feline, the 14min Computer Blue, Purple Rain from the Benefit show and so may other stuff, it was electricity. And it definately extended into the 1985-1986 Parede-Dream Factory years, which had such a large volume of creative explosions. Sadly, you could see the drop off in 1987, and the quality wasn't as good in 1988 even though it was inspirational

.

1980-1988 is definately it

Shawy89 said:

I think Prince reached his absoulte peak when he was working on Sign o the Times, all alone, no Revolution, no band, just him and his musicanship.. That's when he got to the absolute genius status. It's his best work.

go back and do your research Shawy89. SOTT, almost everything on it, is from the Dream Factory sessions.

.

Play In the Sunshine (co-lead Susannah Melvoin)

Star Fish & Coffee (co-written/co-lead Susannah Melvoin)

* Rock Hard in a Funk Place (co lead Susannah Melvoin)

Slow Love (not written by Prince, with Wendy & Lisa on vocals and an instrument or 2)

It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night (co-written by Dr Fink, performed by the Revolution on the Parade tour)

Strange Relationships (with Wendy & Lisa)

Those are all I can think of.

.

Do some research on the Dream Factory project.

Even the little outfit Cat wore, was made for Susannah Melvoin

From Dirty Mind onward there were various levels of background/studio/creation involving the bands. From 0-10