funkomatic said:

SoulAlive said:

We'll have to agree to disagree.I think 'SOTT' is perfect...removing some of the CB tracks made it truly focused and consistent.In my opinion,most of the tracks that were removed ("Shockadelica","The Ball",etc) are not the strongest tracks anyway.I always thought the title track ("Crystal Ball") is an overlong,overrated,self-indulgent song.It's interesting that,on the CB tracklist,the amazing song "Sign O The Times" is buried in the middle of it.Prince was wise to make this song the focus of the new album.

"Quality sells,if not short-term than long term"

As a 2-record set,SOTT only sold a million copies in the States.So how the heck could a 3-LP set have been a big seller? I doubt that the seven songs that were removed would have made the album a bigger seller.If anything,it would have sold less because of the higher price.

[Edited 8/12/13 5:49am]

So let's be happy then that Prince was wise enough to gave up an artistic album concept in favour of a best of collection that saw him remove Rebirth of the Flesh, Crystall Ball, Rockhard, The Ball, Joy in Repetition, Shockadelica, Good Love. Thanks god he added a masterpiece single like "U got the look" instead.

Great response, funkomatic.

I'd bet $ that Prince has made more actual money on records sales since 1996 than before 1996.

I am with Soul Alive,

I love the Sign O' The Times album as it is.. it is a masterpiece after all, maybe even Prince's finest album.

I'm in agrement about missing the organization of what a record label does...

I would love to see Prince work with - someone - ANYONE who could really edit and focus him on a project and keep it tight. He really does need it imo...(ducksandruns) I'm willing to wade through all of it, since I'm in deep but ...I'd love it if he just stopped the faucet of a zillion songs and keeping the train rolling...maybe scale back...and experiment with the music and the ART of a concise album again.

I like the energy of the 3rd eye thing...the musicianship is incredibly gymnastic....he' sounds like he's having a blast..and while I'll never complain about a chance to see Prince play...hearings some of the songs in his recent setlists is GREAT,

BUT...an album that sounds like nothing we've heard before is what will give Prince everything he wants in terms of the business...and it will keep him from becoming a jukebox of his former self ...

he still has the ability to create *NEW*. i may be the only one that thinks the vault should stay shut, and he should challenge his. own. status. quo.

make the rules, then break'em all ..... you know the rest...

SoulAlive said:

Despite what Prince has said,Warner Bros. gave him ALOT of artistic freedom to release whatever he wanted.He got the type of freedom that many other artists never got.Think about it....he was able to release an album every year,plus albums by his proteges.He was able to freely work with other artists on other labels (Sheena Easton,The Bangles,etc).He was able to make movies (with Warners money) and basically pursue any career moves that he wanted.That's why I never bought into that whole "slave" nonsense.It was really all about power and ego.He signed that massive deal with Warners in 1992,but when he couldn't keep up with his end of the deal (selling 5 million copies of each album,in order to continue receiving the $10 million advances),he turned on them and started blaming them for everything.

^ THAT sums up everything in a few neat sentences.

SoulAlive said:

When Prince was finally able to release a 3-album set (Emancipation),the results were a mixed bag,imo.There were some great songs,some mediocre songs and some songs that should have remained in the vaults.That's why I don't necessarily believe that big record companies are terrible.Sometimes,artists need their advice,guidance and opinions.

This reminds me, we don't seem to have had a, 'make your one disc Emancipation', thread for a long time.

The beauty of Emancipation was that it was a 3 disc set. One mans leave it in the vault is anohter mans golden track and we can all pick what we want to make our own great disc(s). I can pretty much guarantee that I'd hate at least 2 of the tracks you'd use to make a single disc and you a few of mine.

funkomatic said:

SoulAlive said:

We'll have to agree to disagree.I think 'SOTT' is perfect...removing some of the CB tracks made it truly focused and consistent.In my opinion,most of the tracks that were removed ("Shockadelica","The Ball",etc) are not the strongest tracks anyway.I always thought the title track ("Crystal Ball") is an overlong,overrated,self-indulgent song.It's interesting that,on the CB tracklist,the amazing song "Sign O The Times" is buried in the middle of it.Prince was wise to make this song the focus of the new album.

"Quality sells,if not short-term than long term"

As a 2-record set,SOTT only sold a million copies in the States.So how the heck could a 3-LP set have been a big seller? I doubt that the seven songs that were removed would have made the album a bigger seller.If anything,it would have sold less because of the higher price.

So let's be happy then that Prince was wise enough to gave up an artistic album concept in favour of a best of collection that saw him remove Rebirth of the Flesh, Crystall Ball, Rockhard, The Ball, Joy in Repetition, Shockadelica, Good Love. Thanks god he added a masterpiece single like "U got the look" instead.

I don't know too many fans that don't consider 'Sign O The Times' to be a masterpiece "U Got The Look" became a Number 2 pop hit,so I think it was a wise inclusion.

If you prefer the original Crystal Ball configuration,simply go through your bootlegs and burn your own CD.I personally like SOTT just the way it is.

thedance said:

I am with Soul Alive,

I love the Sign O' The Times album as it is.. it is a masterpiece after all, maybe even Prince's finest album.

Many fans (and critics) consider it to be Prince's best album.

TheEnglishGent said:

SoulAlive said:

When Prince was finally able to release a 3-album set (Emancipation),the results were a mixed bag,imo.There were some great songs,some mediocre songs and some songs that should have remained in the vaults.That's why I don't necessarily believe that big record companies are terrible.Sometimes,artists need their advice,guidance and opinions.

This reminds me, we don't seem to have had a, 'make your one disc Emancipation', thread for a long time.

The beauty of Emancipation was that it was a 3 disc set. One mans leave it in the vault is anohter mans golden track and we can all pick what we want to make our own great disc(s). I can pretty much guarantee that I'd hate at least 2 of the tracks you'd use to make a single disc and you a few of mine.

I think that being super prolific can be a blessing and a curse.Sometimes,a record company makes wise decisions about editing albums (WB's handling of the Crystal Ball/SOTT project,for example).I kinda feel like Prince created Emancipation as a way of saying "F you!" to Warners for rejecting his original 3-album idea in 1987 but I think they were right

Notice that Sign O The Times is generally considered to be Prince's best album (not just by fans,but many critics too),while nobody ever really says that about Emancipation.

SoulAlive said:

Notice that Sign O The Times is generally considered to be Prince's best album (not just by fans,but many critics too),while nobody ever really says that about Emancipation.

Is that really an issue though?

I'd take 36 songs from Prince over 15 any day of the week.

Graycap23 said:

SoulAlive said:

Notice that Sign O The Times is generally considered to be Prince's best album (not just by fans,but many critics too),while nobody ever really says that about Emancipation.

Is that really an issue though?

I'd take 36 songs from Prince over 15 any day of the week.

^ not in case the added songs aren't just as "great"...

Ps..... SOTT includes 16 songs, not 15.. just a detail... I no...

thedance said:

Graycap23 said:

Is that really an issue though?

I'd take 36 songs from Prince over 15 any day of the week.

^ not in case the added songs aren't just as "great"...

Ps..... SOTT includes 16 songs, not 15.. just a detail... I no...

I actually wasn't counting the songs (I guessed)............my point was 2 fold.

1. The more the merrier when it comes from artist like Prince.

2. Every one has different taste so who is a say what is "great"?

thedance said:

databank said:

No, he doesn't. He released Emancipation, Newpower Soul, Rave, Musicology, 3121 and Planet Earth pretty "normally" to me and obviously if he wanted to do more of that he could. He just seems to enjoy diversity I guess.

And personally I don't give a f...: the music's there one way or another, I have it, I dig it, that's cool 4 me

^

Those albums mentioned, they are so ordinary, safe, middle on the road..........

During the WB years Prince was not like that, back then he was dangerous, provocative, progressive.

Post warner it all became so tame, studio albums became average, deffensive, domesticated.

Yeah I know I am a dreamer for wishing the old Prince would make "dangerous" music again.

I'm dreaming....

Graycap23 said:

thedance said:

^ not in case the added songs aren't just as "great"...

Ps..... SOTT includes 16 songs, not 15.. just a detail... I no...

I actually wasn't counting the songs (I guessed)............my point was 2 fold.

1. The more the merrier when it comes from artist like Prince.

2. Every one has different taste so who is a say what is "great"?

Gray, music is indeed subjective...however, in the great scheme of things, the general consensus would hold that - say - John Lennon's "Imagine" is "great" while Gerardo's "Rico Suave" is not. Individual tastes be damned.

So that being said, it would be hard to argue that S.O.T.T. is NOT a "great album" in comparison to "Emancipation". There latter is full of fluff. It hasn't held up to the test of time. SOTT is still a strong album after all these years.

So while I understand that, as a true P fan the concept of "more is better" is a valid point...for myself (and I'm sure most other fans) a 4 or 5 track album of spectacular, mind-bending music would be far more desirable than a 5-disc set of mediocre, uninspiring fluff that I tend to skip after the first 20seconds of listening to.

PurpleJedi said:

Graycap23 said:

I actually wasn't counting the songs (I guessed)............my point was 2 fold.

1. The more the merrier when it comes from artist like Prince.

2. Every one has different taste so who is a say what is "great"?

Gray, music is indeed subjective...however, in the great scheme of things, the general consensus would hold that - say - John Lennon's "Imagine" is "great" while Gerardo's "Rico Suave" is not. Individual tastes be damned.

So that being said, it would be hard to argue that S.O.T.T. is NOT a "great album" in comparison to "Emancipation". There latter is full of fluff. It hasn't held up to the test of time. SOTT is still a strong album after all these years.

So while I understand that, as a true P fan the concept of "more is better" is a valid point...for myself (and I'm sure most other fans) a 4 or 5 track album of spectacular, mind-bending music would be far more desirable than a 5-disc set of mediocre, uninspiring fluff that I tend to skip after the first 20seconds of listening to.

This really makes no sense to me.

I'll tyake the 36 songs and condense it down if that mattered 2 me.

With Ipods and the like, create your own "masterpiece" from the 36 songs.

[Edited 8/14/13 8:58am]

Graycap23 said:

PurpleJedi said:

Gray, music is indeed subjective...however, in the great scheme of things, the general consensus would hold that - say - John Lennon's "Imagine" is "great" while Gerardo's "Rico Suave" is not. Individual tastes be damned.

So that being said, it would be hard to argue that S.O.T.T. is NOT a "great album" in comparison to "Emancipation". There latter is full of fluff. It hasn't held up to the test of time. SOTT is still a strong album after all these years.

So while I understand that, as a true P fan the concept of "more is better" is a valid point...for myself (and I'm sure most other fans) a 4 or 5 track album of spectacular, mind-bending music would be far more desirable than a 5-disc set of mediocre, uninspiring fluff that I tend to skip after the first 20seconds of listening to.

This treally makes no sense to me.

I'll tyake the 36 songs and condense it down if that mattered 2 me.

With Ipods and the like, create your own "masterpiece" from the 36 songs.

So what you're saying is, "Give me a double or triple album, and I'll pick and choose what I like from it"???


I can get behind that.

Except for the frustration that I feel after listening to something like "Lavaux"

PurpleJedi said:

Graycap23 said:

This treally makes no sense to me.

I'll tyake the 36 songs and condense it down if that mattered 2 me.

With Ipods and the like, create your own "masterpiece" from the 36 songs.

So what you're saying is, "Give me a double or triple album, and I'll pick and choose what I like from it"???


I can get behind that.

Except for the frustration that I feel after listening to something like "Lavaux"

Yes............I want every single track Prince, Mint Condition, etc...............ever recorded.

I've long stopped 'missing the wb years'. It's a waste of time and energy.

Tremolina said:

I've long stopped 'missing the wb years'. It's a waste of time and energy.

Oh admit it...you miss them.

Graycap23 said:

SoulAlive said:

Notice that Sign O The Times is generally considered to be Prince's best album (not just by fans,but many critics too),while nobody ever really says that about Emancipation.

Is that really an issue though?

I'd take 36 songs from Prince over 15 any day of the week.

So it's quantity for you instead of quality...that's interesting.

PurpleJedi said:

Graycap23 said:

I actually wasn't counting the songs (I guessed)............my point was 2 fold.

1. The more the merrier when it comes from artist like Prince.

2. Every one has different taste so who is a say what is "great"?

Gray, music is indeed subjective...however, in the great scheme of things, the general consensus would hold that - say - John Lennon's "Imagine" is "great" while Gerardo's "Rico Suave" is not. Individual tastes be damned.

So that being said, it would be hard to argue that S.O.T.T. is NOT a "great album" in comparison to "Emancipation". There latter is full of fluff. It hasn't held up to the test of time. SOTT is still a strong album after all these years.

So while I understand that, as a true P fan the concept of "more is better" is a valid point...for myself (and I'm sure most other fans) a 4 or 5 track album of spectacular, mind-bending music would be far more desirable than a 5-disc set of mediocre, uninspiring fluff that I tend to skip after the first 20seconds of listening to.

I think there is an outstanding 15-track album buried in the 'Emancipation' set.The problem is,those songs are surrounded by alot of sub-par songs.It's impossible for me to listen to that entire album,song for song,without skipping over some tracks.Generally,I think a 3-CD set of new music is excessive,coming from any artist.It's too much to digest.

SoulAlive said:

PurpleJedi said:

Gray, music is indeed subjective...however, in the great scheme of things, the general consensus would hold that - say - John Lennon's "Imagine" is "great" while Gerardo's "Rico Suave" is not. Individual tastes be damned.

So that being said, it would be hard to argue that S.O.T.T. is NOT a "great album" in comparison to "Emancipation". There latter is full of fluff. It hasn't held up to the test of time. SOTT is still a strong album after all these years.

So while I understand that, as a true P fan the concept of "more is better" is a valid point...for myself (and I'm sure most other fans) a 4 or 5 track album of spectacular, mind-bending music would be far more desirable than a 5-disc set of mediocre, uninspiring fluff that I tend to skip after the first 20seconds of listening to.

I think there is an outstanding 15-track album buried in the 'Emancipation' set.The problem is,those songs are surrounded by alot of sub-par songs.It's impossible for me to listen to that entire album,song for song,without skipping over some tracks.Generally,I think a 3-CD set of new music is excessive,coming from any artist.It's too much to digest.

I agree with you. Unless that 3-disc set is brimming with outstanding music, it is way too much to process adequately. I was at the peak of my fandom back then, and found it difficult to sit through all the fluff.

SOTT for example, was a bit difficult for me because I was not yet a "fan", but still it enraptured me and even though I would often skip through songs ("Slow Love" for example took forever for me to like), eventually the brilliance of the album as a whole allowed me to not only embrace it but actually LOVE it.

Emancipation - not so much. There's a difference between "not liking" a song and being absolutely bored and uninterested by it's mundane, vanilla fluff. Just could never get past all the fluff to embrace the album as a whole. Some of the songs on there are my on my all-time favorites list. But others are so mundane that I can't even remember how they go by just reading the title.
...then again it's probably been a decade since I last listened to it...maybe I should give it a whirl and then come back to this thread.

7roses said:

Graycap23 said:

Is that really an issue though?

I'd take 36 songs from Prince over 15 any day of the week.

So it's quantity for you instead of quality...that's interesting.

I want every single track ever recorded by the likes of Prince, Mint Condition, and any other artist that I actually like.

I don't get caught up in what other people like.............

I dont think it was Prince leaving warners but what he did to end his contract.

Putting out half assed filler albums like Come, Chaos and disorder, and the vault.

Prince fans felt alienated. the name change was a brave move on his part.

Prince had to get out of the warner contract...

Im surprised that the album did not do better sales wise. I also think sign o the times should

have been a bigger hit. warner dropped the ball. Prince should have toured the US.

but by leading by example, taking control back of his music and more. Prince is a leader

and the ultimate anti-sellout

PurpleJedi said:

Graycap23 said:

This treally makes no sense to me.

I'll tyake the 36 songs and condense it down if that mattered 2 me.

With Ipods and the like, create your own "masterpiece" from the 36 songs.

So what you're saying is, "Give me a double or triple album, and I'll pick and choose what I like from it"???


I can get behind that.

Except for the frustration that I feel after listening to something like "Lavaux"

Ha! That's my favourite song on the album.

jaawwnn said:

PurpleJedi said:

So what you're saying is, "Give me a double or triple album, and I'll pick and choose what I like from it"???


I can get behind that.

Except for the frustration that I feel after listening to something like "Lavaux"

Ha! That's my favourite song on the album.

I think WB years sold us a marketing product. Prince was a good pop-musician with creative people working with. WB sold us a musical genius. He wasn't.

Prince showed he wasn't in many ways lately.

If you usually listen Milli Vanilli or if you have a "Kissing the pink" poster in you room, ok Prince could be a genius for you, but a Zappa, Stockhausen, Berio, Petrassi, Banchieri, Davis opera could drive you in musical lands forbidden for Prince.

fabriziovenerandi said:

I think WB years sold us a marketing product. Prince was a good pop-musician with creative people working with. WB sold us a musical genius. He wasn't.

Prince showed he wasn't in many ways lately.

If you usually listen Milli Vanilli or if you have a "Kissing the pink" poster in you room, ok Prince could be a genius for you, but a Zappa, Stockhausen, Berio, Petrassi, Banchieri, Davis opera could drive you in musical lands forbidden for Prince.

Nonsense.