dont know if anyone else feels this but i miss the new single then new album with proper promotion he had with warner bros...since he went independent back in 1996...his music just hasnt reached the public they way an artist of his stature should have done...the general public would struggle to name any prince song released after the mid 90s and i think this is a shame...we can argue about the quality of his music since then and although i dont think its as good as his 80s stuff..he has still released plenty of good music since the mid 90s but it aint getting heard since he cut his ties to the industry..

.

i know that he loves having hit songs so sometimes i wonder if he regrets what happened between him and warners ?...maybe his success with the indie song "most beautiful girl in the world" gave him a false idea of how easy it would be to have hits outside a major record company...i dont know but certainly radio seemed to turn its back on him after the mid 90s and this has to have something to do with him turning his back on the industry and going it alone...

.

anyway...look forward to hearing this new album which is coming out at some point soon...wonder if he will release it normally ?

[Edited 8/10/13 5:17am]

[Edited 8/10/13 5:17am]

we need a exclusive thread abt this topic

[Edited 8/10/13 10:09am]

Speaking purely from a fan point of view (I say that as i can understand Prince's perspective on the matter to a certian degree)...I agree and also miss the Warner years. His departure from traditional methods cost him dearly in my opinion and has had quite the opposite effect of what he has always promoted himself about...the music itself. Back in the warner days, his music was known, heard and loved my countless millions worldwide, whereas post Warners, his name is synonymous with the name change, contract wars and arrogance many can't see past to get to the music. Ironic isn't it. For an artist who loves nothing more than people hearing his music...he drastically reduced that ability on a mass scale. It's true...he has had and still has some great recent songs that should be heard...but without proper representation, promotion and distribution in all it's avenues...Prince will continue to be regarded as a music personality with a wonderful back catalogue only. Having said this...his live legacy has only grown stronger over the years and I guess this does trump the studio issue to a large extent.

we cant say for sure how his career would have went if he had stayed at warners but i believe the company was good for him...interesting that as soon as he cut his ties with warners...he never had another big hit...?...now you can argue this was down to the quality of his singles but it has to be more than that...maybe once he went indie..he lost his edge ?..or maybe he would have stopped having big hits anyway as most artists do...

<<< i miss the warner years.. too.

SuperSoulFighter said:

Pfff... Mods, please create an "old folks complaining about Prince" sticky and get it over with. Threads like these are coming faster than Prince can create new music.

robertgeorgeakabob said:

SuperSoulFighter said:

Pfff... Mods, please create an "old folks complaining about Prince" sticky and get it over with. Threads like these are coming faster than Prince can create new music.

As are replies like yours. Anything to contribute to the thread? What are your thoughts on what was a career changing dispute?

*

I can't speak for SuperSoulFighter, but Prince leaving Warner Bros. hasn't impacted me at all. I still love his music, I still have access to his music, and I never cared what the masses though of Prince's work by way of him having a hit or top charting song. While a song being on the charts does give "more" people access to it, I have never been moved to purchase a song just because it is on the charts nor have I justified my liking a song with "it's on the charts". So, in my limited estimation, Prince leaving Warner Bros. has had very little impact on my ability to access his music and enjoy his music, since, again, I still have access to his music and still enjoy his music. I would even argue that I may have more access to his music because of his ability to release things--though erratically--online that he may not have been able to do as a Warner Bros. act.

1725topp said:

robertgeorgeakabob said:

SuperSoulFighter said:

Pfff... Mods, please create an "old folks complaining about Prince" sticky and get it over with. Threads like these are coming faster than Prince can create new music.

As are replies like yours.
Anything to contribute to the thread? What are your thoughts on what was a career changing dispute?

SuperSoulFighter said:

blackbob said:

.

i know that he loves having hit songs so sometimes i wonder if he regrets what happened between him and warners ?...maybe his success with the indie song "most beautiful girl in the world" gave him a false idea of how easy it would be to have hits outside a major record company...i dont know but certainly radio seemed to turn its back on him after the mid 90s and this has to have something to do with him turning his back on the industry and going it alone...

I think that's exactly what happened.The success of TMBGITW made Prince believe that it would be really easy being an "independent" artist.

robertgeorgeakabob said:

I think you're wrong to say Prince still desires a hit record. It would be easy to achieve that, the right song licensed to the right movie or advert is all it would take. Public Enemy hit top 5 in the UK last year, solely because the BBC used it as an unofficial Olympic anthem.

Prince wants a hit record.In the recent Billboard cover story,he complained that radio won't play his new stuff.His problem is that,he wants a hit record,but only on his own terms.He's not willing to "play the game",so to speak.

blackbob said:

dont know if anyone else feels this but i miss the new single then new album with proper promotion he had with warner bros...since he went independent back in 1996...his music just hasnt reached the public they way an artist of his stature should have done...the general public would struggle to name any prince song released after the mid 90s and i think this is a shame...we can argue about the quality of his music since then and although i dont think its as good as his 80s stuff..he has still released plenty of good music since the mid 90s but it aint getting heard since he cut his ties to the industry..

.

i know that he loves having hit songs so sometimes i wonder if he regrets what happened between him and warners ?...maybe his success with the indie song "most beautiful girl in the world" gave him a false idea of how easy it would be to have hits outside a major record company...i dont know but certainly radio seemed to turn its back on him after the mid 90s and this has to have something to do with him turning his back on the industry and going it alone...

.

anyway...look forward to hearing this new album which is coming out at some point soon...wonder if he will release it normally ?

[Edited 8/10/13 5:17am]

[Edited 8/10/13 5:17am]

No, he doesn't. He released Emancipation, Newpower Soul, Rave, Musicology, 3121 and Planet Earth pretty "normally" to me and obviously if he wanted to do more of that he could. He just seems to enjoy diversity I guess.

And personally I don't give a f...: the music's there one way or another, I have it, I dig it, that's cool 4 me

databank said:

No, he doesn't. He released Emancipation, Newpower Soul, Rave, Musicology, 3121 and Planet Earth pretty "normally" to me and obviously if he wanted to do more of that he could. He just seems to enjoy diversity I guess.

And personally I don't give a f...: the music's there one way or another, I have it, I dig it, that's cool 4 me

^

Those albums mentioned, they are so ordinary, safe, middle on the road..........

During the WB years Prince was not like that, back then he was dangerous, provocative, progressive.

Post warner it all became so tame, studio albums became average, deffensive, domesticated.

Yeah I know I am a dreamer for wishing the old Prince would make "dangerous" music again.

I'm dreaming....

LilTav15 said:

I feel like Warner helped him a lot by not allowing him to release as much music as he wanted. Crystal Ball and Emancipation were overdone and I think that if he would have stayed at Warner they would have made him get cut down on unecessary tracks.

I wouldn't bet on them. They made him cut down the original "Crystal Ball" for commercial reasons. Which was wrong, because artistically there was quality all over.

funkomatic said:

LilTav15 said:

I feel like Warner helped him a lot by not allowing him to release as much music as he wanted. Crystal Ball and Emancipation were overdone and I think that if he would have stayed at Warner they would have made him get cut down on unecessary tracks.

I wouldn't bet on them. They made him cut down the original "Crystal Ball" for commercial reasons. Which was wrong, because artistically there was quality all over.

I think it a wise decision to cut down the original 'Crystal Ball' into a 2-record set.This forced Prince to compile the strongest tracks into what became 'Sign O The Times',which is considered a masterpiece.A 3-LP set by any artist in 1987 would have been a tougher sell.It's too much music for the masses to digest.

LilTav15 said:

I feel like Warner helped him a lot by not allowing him to release as much music as he wanted. Crystal Ball and Emancipation were overdone and I think that if he would have stayed at Warner they would have made him get cut down on unecessary tracks.

I agree.I also think that,being on Warners gave his career the "structure" and focus that is lacking these days.The release of a new Prince album was a well-planned event.These days,songs are randomly thrown out there,album ideas are discussed but don't always materialize,and Prince just goes from one distribution deal to another.

SoulAlive said:

funkomatic said:

I wouldn't bet on them. They made him cut down the original "Crystal Ball" for commercial reasons. Which was wrong, because artistically there was quality all over.

I think it a wise decision to cut down the original 'Crystal Ball' into a 2-record set.This forced Prince to compile the strongest tracks into what became 'Sign O The Times',which is considered a masterpiece.A 3-LP set by any artist in 1987 would have been a tougher sell.It's too much music for the masses to digest.

Bullshit. Who cares about the masses, who cares about sales, if there's one of the greatest albums in pop music history around the corner? Art should always have the priority, no matter what. Everything else is short-term thinking.

[Edited 8/12/13 1:23am]

funkomatic said:

SoulAlive said:

I think it a wise decision to cut down the original 'Crystal Ball' into a 2-record set.This forced Prince to compile the strongest tracks into what became 'Sign O The Times',which is considered a masterpiece.A 3-LP set by any artist in 1987 would have been a tougher sell.It's too much music for the masses to digest.

Bullshit. Who cares about the masses, who cares about sales, if there's one of the greatest albums in pop music history around the corner? Art should always have the priority, no matter what. Everything else is short-term thinking.

that's all good and well,but you're not looking at this from the record company's perspective.They're the ones who have to finance the record,and spend tons of money to promote and sell it.They don't call it the "music business" for nothing.A 3-album set in 1987 would have been a hard sell,that's a fact,especially coming after 'Parade' and 'Under The Cherry Moon' (two projects that didn't exactly set the world on fire).Trimming 'Crystal Ball' down to a 2-record set was a smart move.You got the best songs from the 3-LP configuration and everything else (except "Rebirth Of The Flesh") was officially released on other projects.

When Prince was finally able to release a 3-album set (Emancipation),the results were a mixed bag,imo.There were some great songs,some mediocre songs and some songs that should have remained in the vaults.That's why I don't necessarily believe that big record companies are terrible.Sometimes,artists need their advice,guidance and opinions.

i doubt warner would of gave prince final cut of his albums . so they had to be good , these days i doubt there is anyone telling prince "no" so he just puts out sub par crap.

Despite what Prince has said,Warner Bros. gave him ALOT of artistic freedom to release whatever he wanted.He got the type of freedom that many other artists never got.Think about it....he was able to release an album every year,plus albums by his proteges.He was able to freely work with other artists on other labels (Sheena Easton,The Bangles,etc).He was able to make movies (with Warners money) and basically pursue any career moves that he wanted.That's why I never bought into that whole "slave" nonsense.It was really all about power and ego.He signed that massive deal with Warners in 1992,but when he couldn't keep up with his end of the deal (selling 5 million copies of each album,in order to continue receiving the $10 million advances),he turned on them and started blaming them for everything.

thedance said:

databank said:

No, he doesn't. He released Emancipation, Newpower Soul, Rave, Musicology, 3121 and Planet Earth pretty "normally" to me and obviously if he wanted to do more of that he could. He just seems to enjoy diversity I guess.

And personally I don't give a f...: the music's there one way or another, I have it, I dig it, that's cool 4 me

^

Those albums mentioned, they are so ordinary, safe, middle on the road..........

During the WB years Prince was not like that, back then he was dangerous, provocative, progressive.

Post warner it all became so tame, studio albums became average, deffensive, domesticated.

Yeah I know I am a dreamer for wishing the old Prince would make "dangerous" music again.

I'm dreaming....

U're totally out of topic, stuck in ur obsession with Prince's music not being what u expect. The OP is about distribution and promotion, not content. Go take a nap, have a coffee, come back tomorrow

SoulAlive said:

funkomatic said:

Bullshit. Who cares about the masses, who cares about sales, if there's one of the greatest albums in pop music history around the corner? Art should always have the priority, no matter what. Everything else is short-term thinking.

that's all good and well,but you're not looking at this from the record company's perspective.They're the ones who have to finance the record,and spend tons of money to promote and sell it.They don't call it the "music business" for nothing.A 3-album set in 1987 would have been a hard sell,that's a fact,especially coming after 'Parade' and 'Under The Cherry Moon' (two projects that didn't exactly set the world on fire).Trimming 'Crystal Ball' down to a 2-record set was a smart move.You got the best songs from the 3-LP configuration and everything else (except "Rebirth Of The Flesh") was officially released on other projects.

First: I don't think SOTT contains the strongest tracks of CB. Second: It's a totally different experience to collect the individual songs of this project than to get it released the way it was originally intended (concept, songs without a home etc.).

Quality sells, if not short-term than long-term! WB was not smart enough to realise this. A 3-LP album with a concept intact and all quality songs would have gained even more attention in the pop world than SOTT ever did. Back then and now.

Just for curiosity: Does anybody know the exact length of the "original" Crystal Ball?

funkomatic said:

SoulAlive said:

that's all good and well,but you're not looking at this from the record company's perspective.They're the ones who have to finance the record,and spend tons of money to promote and sell it.They don't call it the "music business" for nothing.A 3-album set in 1987 would have been a hard sell,that's a fact,especially coming after 'Parade' and 'Under The Cherry Moon' (two projects that didn't exactly set the world on fire).Trimming 'Crystal Ball' down to a 2-record set was a smart move.You got the best songs from the 3-LP configuration and everything else (except "Rebirth Of The Flesh") was officially released on other projects.

First: I don't think SOTT contains the strongest tracks of CB. Second: It's a totally different experience to collect the individual songs of this project than to get it released the way it was originally intended (concept, songs without a home etc.).

Quality sells, if not short-term than long-term! WB was not smart enough to realise this. A 3-LP album with a concept intact and all quality songs would have gained even more attention in the pop world than SOTT ever did. Back then and now.

Just for curiosity: Does anybody know the exact length of the "original" Crystal Ball?

We'll have to agree to disagree.I think 'SOTT' is perfect...removing some of the CB tracks made it truly focused and consistent.In my opinion,most of the tracks that were removed ("Shockadelica","The Ball",etc) are not the strongest tracks anyway.I always thought the title track ("Crystal Ball") is an overlong,overrated,self-indulgent song.It's interesting that,on the CB tracklist,the amazing song "Sign O The Times" is buried in the middle of it.Prince was wise to make this song the focus of the new album.

"Quality sells,if not short-term than long term"

As a 2-record set,SOTT only sold a million copies in the States.So how the heck could a 3-LP set have been a big seller? I doubt that the seven songs that were removed would have made the album a bigger seller.If anything,it would have sold less because of the higher price.

[Edited 8/12/13 5:49am]

SoulAlive said:

funkomatic said:

First: I don't think SOTT contains the strongest tracks of CB. Second: It's a totally different experience to collect the individual songs of this project than to get it released the way it was originally intended (concept, songs without a home etc.).

Quality sells, if not short-term than long-term! WB was not smart enough to realise this. A 3-LP album with a concept intact and all quality songs would have gained even more attention in the pop world than SOTT ever did. Back then and now.

Just for curiosity: Does anybody know the exact length of the "original" Crystal Ball?

We'll have to agree to disagree.I think 'SOTT' is perfect...removing some of the CB tracks made it truly focused and consistent.In my opinion,most of the tracks that were removed ("Shockadelica","The Ball",etc) are not the strongest tracks anyway.I always thought the title track ("Crystal Ball") is an overlong,overrated,self-indulgent song.It's interesting that,on the CB tracklist,the amazing song "Sign O The Times" is buried in the middle of it.Prince was wise to make this song the focus of the new album.

"Quality sells,if not short-term than long term"

As a 2-record set,SOTT only sold a million copies in the States.So how the heck could a 3-LP set have been a big seller? I doubt that the seven songs that were removed would have made the album a bigger seller.If anything,it would have sold less because of the higher price.

[Edited 8/12/13 5:49am]

So let's be happy then that Prince was wise enough to gave up an artistic album concept in favour of a best of collection that saw him remove Rebirth of the Flesh, Crystall Ball, Rockhard, The Ball, Joy in Repetition, Shockadelica, Good Love. Thanks god he added a masterpiece single like "U got the look" instead.