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Reply #150 posted 07/27/13 11:45pm

7230

1) Although maybe via the fingers of an ignorantly brainwashed bot with a cataract in that third eye, that was Prince typing to this Serpan fellow.

/

2) Anyone calling Prince an "asshole" all of a sudden is about 5, no, 25 years late.

/

3) Musically accomplished notwithstanding, Prince has been an "asshole" for a very long time, damn-near his entire career. Therefore this latest episode of him shooting an ardent [blind] supporter point-blank in the chest is not surprising to those who have been keenly aware of that fact previously.

/

4) LOL @ Prince-apologists just now realizing that Prince is indeed an "asshole!" An arrogant, patronizing, self-righteous "asshole" at that, who doesn't care about how "all y'all Purple people" feel either, even after you've massaged, licked, and then paid his damn feet.

/

5) And speaking of that "Purple" nonsense, various nouns are often labeled with that color by the offensively defensive fans around here because of Prince's conceit-filled song lyrics: Purple music...Purple party...Purple hippie...Purple damn Yoda (LucasFilm: Where's YOUR Cease & Desist?). Well...how's that slimy, scalding, Purple egg on your faces?

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Reply #151 posted 07/27/13 11:49pm

murph

alexzander said:

neveseven said:

This was the conversation between them on Livestream: (edit out off topic comments)


3RDEYEGIRL: uh oh...serpan will tweet everything said herre
3RDEYEGIRL: everything bite ur lip
3RDEYEGIRL: copy and paste


SERPAN99: yeah...unless u don't want me 2 3EG ;-p


3RDEYEGIRL: actually...
3RDEYEGIRL: can we just chat like normal folk?
3RDEYEGIRL: if people wanna hear from us...shouldn't they have 2 come here
3RDEYEGIRL: whether than frequent ur site?
3RDEYEGIRL: now that we r on the topic...

SERPAN99: define "chat like normal folk"...not all fans like 2 b here 24/7...and search thru the 60 thousand comments on here...just sayin

3RDEYEGIRL:do u alter any of the photographs featured on r sites?
3RDEYEGIRL: and then re-post them on ur site?

SERPAN99: I don't alter anything...I'm all about true info

3RDEYEGIRL: well...let's chack
3RDEYEGIRL: check,even
3RDEYEGIRL: how did 3rdeyetv get on P's shirt?
3RDEYEGIRL: did u alter it?
3RDEYEGIRL: on ur Twitter page

SERPAN99: Oh okay...that's true, but I was promoting ur Livestream account 4 u...u want that changed?

3RDEYEGIRL: and What's wrong with using ur own pic rather than His?

SERPAN99: I'm not about selfpromoting 3EG...so not using my own image

3RDEYEGIRL: leave r ART on r site...it's not there 4 u 2 lift and "alter"
3RDEYEGIRL: we dont need that kind of promotion
3RDEYEGIRL: better 2 ask 1st...what do ya think?

SERPAN99: Well...I did ask u if u want me 2 promote the info u share here in the chat?

3RDEYEGIRL: no
3RDEYEGIRL: we have a site 4 people 2 follow here

SERPAN99: O-tay...gotcha!

3RDEYEGIRL: can u take Prince's image off ur site please?
3RDEYEGIRL: all of them?
3RDEYEGIRL: we do believe management asked u 2 do so weex ago
3RDEYEGIRL: what's the holdup?
3RDEYEGIRL: we want everyone 2 injoy the art........here
3RDEYEGIRL: not elsewhere


SERPAN99: Nope...that request wasn't made 2 me at all, but I just removed the style images as requested


3RDEYEGIRL: we always ask nicely
3RDEYEGIRL: we love u'all

SERPAN99: both background and header have been removed 4 u 3EG

3RDEYEGIRL: very good....appreciated.
3RDEYEGIRL: thanks
3RDEYEGIRL: while u're at it
3RDEYEGIRL: can u take down prince's symbol from ur page
3RDEYEGIRL: it's copywritten
3RDEYEGIRL: and we r here 2 license it's usage

SERPAN99: Not sure where u r seeing Prince's symbol on my site, can u please re-check that 3EG?

3RDEYEGIRL: interesting that people nade fun of that when the name was changed...but now it results in hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue...
3RDEYEGIRL: when it is used without permission
3RDEYEGIRL: a cartoon appears on ur site with it around ur neck...
3RDEYEGIRL: probably need 2 take that down as well....what do ya think?


SERPAN99: Oh okay...so that's what u mean, lemme fix that real fast 4 u...the thrill is gone anywayz


3RDEYEGIRL: joe...no one mentioned money...it's about rights
3RDEYEGIRL: the symbol is just that.
3RDEYEGIRL: a symbol...laws were put on boox 2 protect copyrights
3RDEYEGIRL: NPG created a "symbol" and then copyrighted it
3RDEYEGIRL: it unfair 2 use it without permission
3RDEYEGIRL: plain and simple
3RDEYEGIRL: no?
3RDEYEGIRL: the symbol is copyrighted no different than the coca-cola logo

SERPAN99:So...now that I removed the symbol image 4 u, r u going after the thousands of other Prince fans who r using it as well? And have people remove symbol tattoos?

3RDEYEGIRL: we love serpan...want him 2 stay and vibe with us
3RDEYEGIRL: nope...just u serpan
3RDEYEGIRL: lol

SERPAN99: yeah...I really feel the love, I'm sure some people r njoying the vibe...until it backfires...

3RDEYEGIRL: there is no backfire
3RDEYEGIRL: all an illusion

(smilingjoe and others & erdeyegirl has long conversation about musician rights & music industry then.... )

3RDEYEGIRL: bye, everybody

smilingjoe: don't forget to say sorry to serpan

3RDEYEGIRL: talk 2 Serpan...tell him we love him and want him 2 feel welcome
3RDEYEGIRL: just rather not have r every word splattered all over the internet
3RDEYEGIRL: we like a small gathering like this

*****

(ok i just did what Serpan does copy & pasted from another site but the orginal poster didn't give back story)

[Edited 7/27/13 12:12pm]

Anybody else reading the 3EG lines in the female voice from "Automatic"? confused lol

lol.....

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Reply #152 posted 07/28/13 12:34am

andykeen

avatar

I for one will no longer be attending these LIve Stream shows. I have no time for power hungry, petty, ill mannered starlets. And as for Prince? He's done this his whole career, but for me...I've had enough. #boycott3EG

Keenmeister
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Reply #153 posted 07/28/13 12:45am

SchlomoThaHomo

avatar

murph said:

alexzander said:

Anybody else reading the 3EG lines in the female voice from "Automatic"? confused lol

lol.....

It reads to me like the boss from the movie Office Space.

"That's when stars collide. When there's space for what u want, and ur heart is open wide."
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Reply #154 posted 07/28/13 1:01am

LotusMama

SpiritOtter said:

1725topp said:

While I agree that one should never be rude or disrespectful to another, in some cases it seems that fans have an exaggerated or delusional notion of their relationship with or role in the career of their favorite artist. The "role" or "place" of a fan is to receive art and to decide if one likes or dislikes the art. The amount of art that one likes and the degree to which one likes the art determines if one is a fan and to what level is one a fan. However, in some cases, people become so enamored with an artist that they want to be more than just fans or they begin to exaggerate what it means to be a fan to feel a part of the artist's work or life. However, if an artist has made it clear, like Prince has, that he isn't interested in fans who think they need to help him promote something or "keep his legacy alive" by posting his work on YouTube or other sites, then one should either respect Prince’s wishes regarding his "copyrighted" material or find another artist to worship...err I mean enjoy.

*

At this point, most of us know who and what Prince is and what type of relationship he wants with his fans. But, many of us see the types of relationships that other artists have with their fans and desire a similar type of relationship with Prince. Yet, Prince is not those other artists, and he has made it clear from day one that he is not those other artists. So, if Prince has made it clear that he doesn't want his fans posting his work to various sites for any reason, why would one be surprised by a negative response from Prince when a fan does something that Prince has made clear he doesn't want done? Only a fool would be surprised or angered by Prince's reaction. The logical thing would be to say "my bad," and stop doing it. Even as a person with bootlegs, do I think it would be wise for me to approach Prince and say, "Dude, I love the bootlegs of the Dakota show and the ten LOL shows that I have"? It would be even more foolish if I actually expected Prince to be happy about it.

*

Of course, some will ask, then why am I a member of Prince.org and earlier of Housequake.com and even earlier Controversy and Uptown? I'm a member of Prince.org and was a member of the others because it is the easiest way to get Prince information. Yes, I engage in discourse about the art, but my primary reason for being here is to learn about the latest album, appearance, or tour. (So, NPG Music Club was cool to me for the access to music. I never chatted on there because all I want is music--audio and video.) The rest (especially chatting online with other fans) is just extra to me, and, in many cases, that extra is a negative waste of time, but there are also several on this site who do offer objective insight about Prince's art regardless of whether or not I agree with their position. And while Serpan seems to be interested in "promoting" Prince, he was doing so in ways that seems to infringe on what Prince views as welcomed. Yes, Prince could have sent him a private letter, but it seems that Prince views Serpan's actions not as an isolated incident but as one aspect of how many fans seem, again, to exaggerate their role or place in Prince's career.

*

I think that Housequake is second only to Controversy as a great place for Prince fans to discuss their admiration for Prince’s work. (If you’re counting, then, yes, that means I have Prince.org listed as third. Yet, I must say that the moderators of both Housequake and Prince.org did/do a wonderful job!) But, many of us did abuse Housequake by posting unauthorized audio and video when the site had been asked not to do so. Prince probably could have handled the situation better, but many (and I’m not including the moderators in this group) kept ignoring the request and became adversarial to the requests to stop. A relationship is about defining what each party wants, defining the boundaries of those desires, and then determining if each party can be happy with those terms. Clearly, many of you are not happy with the terms and relationship Prince desires to maintain with his "fans" so it seems that maybe instead of constantly bitching and whining about it y’all should just find another artist who desires to have the type of relationship with fans that you desire to have with an artist. All I want is access to the music, and few other artists have done as much this year as Prince has as giving us access to the music. One may not like the music to which one has been given access, but your ass has been given access.

*

Let me be clear; I don't know Serpan as well as many of you, obviously, so my comments are not about Serpan but about what I see as many fans having an exaggerated or delusional perception of what it means to be a fan. All I want to do is receive art from an artist, enjoy that art in my home and car, during live shows, and, in some cases, have informative discussions with others who also enjoy that work. But, it seems that I have a much more defined line drawn in the sand of where "fandom" ends and infringement begins. Ultimately, Prince has said to his fans over the years: "I don't want your help promoting my work." This has been made clear to us. We either accept it and continue to enjoy the art that we get, or we find other artists to worship...err I mean enjoy who want us to be more involved in promoting their work. Since I'm too lazy to promote anybody else's work than mine, I'll just stick to enjoying Prince's work since I still do.

[Edited 7/27/13 13:58pm]

1725topp,

I agree in almost every respect with your line of thought. So, thank you for your contribution.

I must add, though, that from a relational perspective, Prince's representative's tone, approach and level of professionalism leaves a lot to be desired. Unfortunately, regardless of whether Prince's represenative is in fact - and objectively - "right" about Prince's stance, copyright and the law, the execution of that representative's communication strategy was so poor, that it comes across as amateur. Furthermore, it comes across as condescending. Whilst these are subjective viewpoints, the reality is that the objective stance effectively loses ground and goodwill by the consequences of a subjective backlash. A professional and sensitive handling of communication and PR issues should surely be utilised, especially when one is (it would appear) trying to reach out to a community, as Prince is clearly trying to do here via this channel i.e. to build a relationship with his customer base (fans). Perhaps, there appears to be a strong response to the represenative (and, by default, Prince) because they do not understand the relational dynamic, but I actually think the issue is less about a lack of understanding and more about an inability to conduct an operation professionally. I genuinely believe these types of relationship building issues should be handled by a professional team. Yet these types of PR mistakes have been happening for over a decade. For the commonplace fan, I imagine it becomes difficult to respect the line, when the line drawn has been consistenly done without (it would appear) any genuine degree of relational sensitivity and discernable judgement. Whilst your points are effectively "correct" from almost every respect, it seems you have failed to understand the biggest point: emotion.

Of course, I could be wrong.

.

[Edited 7/27/13 14:38pm]

SpiritOtter,

UR clearly on point. I agree with ur observation.

I can understand Prince's need to keep younger people around. It is the energy that motivates creativity in both the giver and receiver. However, to have inexperience in charge is not the wisest of moves, which was clearly evident in that exchange. As u pointed out it was emotional and to me very very immature. That could have been and should have been handled professionally and way more maturely.

Prince may want to consider peppering his management with people who at least can set some boundaries lest they get out of control like that again. It only reflects badly on him and his brand. Now is also not the time to loose fans no matter how many there are at present.

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Reply #155 posted 07/28/13 1:54am

Phishanga

avatar

Oh well. confused But anyone else is making better music anyway, so...

He might need a Rolling-Stones-Opening-Act moment again. boo lol

Hey loudmouth, shut the fuck up, right?
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Reply #156 posted 07/28/13 1:57am

SpiritOtter

EyeJester7 said:

3rdeyedude said:

someone mentioned Jester above and then someone mentioned something about white dudes

c'mon people, really? (this is the exact kind of BS that sucks about the org)

Jester is just a thoughtful, intelligent kid who posted great youtube reviews and got noticed

and Serpan was on his way to becoming one of the main sources to find out what 3EG was up to on a daily basis

3EG gets that Serpan is a big fan, but he should just keep it at that and nothing more

and for 3EG to do it on their own livestream chat was great for getting the message out to other fans as well - be a fan, and not a fanatic and good things will come

for people to piss on 3EG and Funkenberry just shows you how sick some prince fans can become

some fans even hang out in the chat room 24/7 waiting for the next livestream - c'mon folks!!

Thank you for your comment, I appreciate it your reply in my defense. I am in no ways here, to go into detail about the matter, but I think we all could benefit from the use of 'Context'. We can exhuast this from the perspective, that 3EG intention is to be mean. I don't think that was intended. If something was presented multiple times in private, and the other person ignored it constantly, and did not make a change. If by addressing the issue in public brings a deeper sense of awareness, I don't see what's wrong with it. (But we don't know if he heeded the advice? I would hope he would..) As far as I know, there is only misunderstanding. We are still here to love and accept each other. While I don't see nothing wrong with it, eye can see why others might. The air is cleared, and we don't have to worry about this happening again. Which is a good thing! It was not the only way to handle it, but it was one of the other, exhausted attempts at making a change. RANT OVER..I think I addressed this in the best way, I could have! Hopefully a change is created!

Jessie,

You know I have got mad props for you, but really?

Let me offer another potential line of thought.

I know you can go deeper than the surface.

love,

Spirit

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Reply #157 posted 07/28/13 1:58am

GoldenParachut
e

SchlomoThaHomo said:

murph said:

lol.....

It reads to me like the boss from the movie Office Space.

"yeaaaaaa.... ummmm, Im gonna need you to come in on your day off..."

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Reply #158 posted 07/28/13 2:18am

kewlschool

avatar

3EG seems to be on target with this one, but 3EG should have handled it better and with class. I totally feel for Serp too. You get excited about an artist and you want to share it with the world. But the artist doesn't. So, do what your artist wants, not what you want.
Just my 2 cents

99.9% of everything I say is strictly for my own entertainment
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Reply #159 posted 07/28/13 2:45am

SpiritOtter

EyeJester7said:

I think we all could benefit from the use of 'Context'. We can exhuast this from the perspective, that 3EG intention is to be mean. I don't think that was intended.

Honestly, I have zero beef with 3EG, the concept, the potential and the majority of the reality. However, irrespective of whether that 3rdEyeGirl representative's actions were intended to be mean, the subjective reality and phenomenological response from a small but critical mass of independent thinkers surely demonstrates that at the very least - intended or otherwise - there is a professional approach to PR and LEGAL matters and there is this particular 3rdEyeGirl's representative's approach. I honestly do NOT care if his/her approach was intended to be mean, the subjective reality is that it has been perceived by many independent thinkers as defamatory, condescending, distasteful and childish. The unfortunate consequence for Prince is that these types of words (and far more obscene ones) are now concurrently being utilised about him as a result of this representative's actions at a time when, in another reality, Prince has just delivered to his customer base (fans) - free of charge - a quite supreme 100 minute blend of music from other artists, heavenly conceived and executed. So, intended or not, the actions of the 3rdEyeGirl's representative destroyed that goodwill gesture on Prince's part to the point that few are now willing to focus on the music or the goodwill because an unprofessional approach (and I am being polite) was used. It speaks of an amateur, not befitting Prince's stature.

*

So, the question then becomes less about intention and more about the consequence of this representative's ill-conceived and ill-thought out actions, especially with regards the potentially debilitating effect it can have upon a celebrity's artistic brand, which Prince himself has spent quite some time (decades, even) creating and cultivating. Furthermore, if you extrapolate from this potentially isolated and minor incident to another reality consisting of similar minor AND major incidents spanning over 10 year's worth of PR mistakes with regards to substantive legal issues, which would have been better handled by a professional team, it becomes difficult to imagine that Prince would enjoy the consequences of these actions, regardless of whether one's intentions remain noble (and that particular aspect is subject for debate, in this particular representative's case, anyhow). I understand Prince's desire for artistic rights to be protected, but how can anyone respect that cause if such consistent, systematically appalling, methods of communication are deployed to achieve results. A relative small investment in time and money towards a professional team of PR, Communication and Legal experts, would have reaped significant financial reward and emotional goodwill from his customer base (fans). However, a lack of foresight and regard about this matter has it would now appear resulted in THIS type of behaviour with THESE types of unintended consequences. From a purely business perspective, it is a disaster. I shall reserve my comments about what this might suggest from a spiritual perspective, but needless to say, it is equally not good.

*

Surely, Jessie, you can understand this potential line of thought? In fact, I know you well enough from afar to know that you can and do understand. It doesn't mean you are any less of a fan, friend or person for critiquing Prince's methods, but when it's time to call a spade a spade, you can't hide behind potention intentions, when the consistent consequences of these types of actions are so devasting for over a decade (even if the devastation is inflicted upon just one soul, in this case, Serpan). The right kind of actions are required and to deliver the right kind of results for Prince, it would be better for him to take advice from a professional team (and not an amateur one), especially given that he will no doubt often be made aware of the difficulties of operating as an independent artist in a largely unthanking and unforgiving world of business.

*

Cue the music: THE WALK...as the Otter walks off into the sunset to take a splash in the sea before himself being confronted by the 3rdEyeGirl representative (who does indeed sound like Jar Jar Binks).


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Reply #160 posted 07/28/13 2:47am

erik319

avatar

I only got into 3EGTV through Serpan & reading what I missed.

They say they want a small audience, then they'll get their wish, because it's -1 from me.

blah blah blah
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Reply #161 posted 07/28/13 2:49am

SpiritOtter

EyeJester7 said:

The air is cleared, and we don't have to worry about this happening again. Which is a good thing! ... Hopefully a change is created!

I must be getting old, but how sweet, the beauty of youth and innocence. You still rock, Jessie.

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Reply #162 posted 07/28/13 3:00am

IstenSzek

avatar

erik319 said:

I only got into 3EGTV through Serpan & reading what I missed.

They say they want a small audience, then they'll get their wish, because it's -1 from me.

i know what you mean, it was the same for me.

so now it's back to reading about it on prince's official site.

oh, wait..... lol

and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
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Reply #163 posted 07/28/13 3:03am

Soulstar77A

Phishanga said:

He might need a Rolling-Stones-Opening-Act moment again. boo lol

lol

We almost had that situation after that lame Cologne gig in 2011

Hmm, i think you might be right, i guess i will bring some tomtatos to next concert that i will attend...

He just deserves it !! nod

[Edited 7/28/13 3:09am]

"ohYeeeeeah" said: I'm a massive Bowie fan. Even on Scary Monsters, I always skip Fame ...
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Reply #164 posted 07/28/13 3:26am

1725topp

SpiritOtter said:

1725topp said:

While I agree that one should never be rude or disrespectful to another, in some cases it seems that fans have an exaggerated or delusional notion of their relationship with or role in the career of their favorite artist. The "role" or "place" of a fan is to receive art and to decide if one likes or dislikes the art. The amount of art that one likes and the degree to which one likes the art determines if one is a fan and to what level is one a fan. However, in some cases, people become so enamored with an artist that they want to be more than just fans or they begin to exaggerate what it means to be a fan to feel a part of the artist's work or life. However, if an artist has made it clear, like Prince has, that he isn't interested in fans who think they need to help him promote something or "keep his legacy alive" by posting his work on YouTube or other sites, then one should either respect Prince’s wishes regarding his "copyrighted" material or find another artist to worship...err I mean enjoy.

*

At this point, most of us know who and what Prince is and what type of relationship he wants with his fans. But, many of us see the types of relationships that other artists have with their fans and desire a similar type of relationship with Prince. Yet, Prince is not those other artists, and he has made it clear from day one that he is not those other artists. So, if Prince has made it clear that he doesn't want his fans posting his work to various sites for any reason, why would one be surprised by a negative response from Prince when a fan does something that Prince has made clear he doesn't want done? Only a fool would be surprised or angered by Prince's reaction. The logical thing would be to say "my bad," and stop doing it. Even as a person with bootlegs, do I think it would be wise for me to approach Prince and say, "Dude, I love the bootlegs of the Dakota show and the ten LOL shows that I have"? It would be even more foolish if I actually expected Prince to be happy about it.

*

Of course, some will ask, then why am I a member of Prince.org and earlier of Housequake.com and even earlier Controversy and Uptown? I'm a member of Prince.org and was a member of the others because it is the easiest way to get Prince information. Yes, I engage in discourse about the art, but my primary reason for being here is to learn about the latest album, appearance, or tour. (So, NPG Music Club was cool to me for the access to music. I never chatted on there because all I want is music--audio and video.) The rest (especially chatting online with other fans) is just extra to me, and, in many cases, that extra is a negative waste of time, but there are also several on this site who do offer objective insight about Prince's art regardless of whether or not I agree with their position. And while Serpan seems to be interested in "promoting" Prince, he was doing so in ways that seems to infringe on what Prince views as welcomed. Yes, Prince could have sent him a private letter, but it seems that Prince views Serpan's actions not as an isolated incident but as one aspect of how many fans seem, again, to exaggerate their role or place in Prince's career.

*

I think that Housequake is second only to Controversy as a great place for Prince fans to discuss their admiration for Prince’s work. (If you’re counting, then, yes, that means I have Prince.org listed as third. Yet, I must say that the moderators of both Housequake and Prince.org did/do a wonderful job!) But, many of us did abuse Housequake by posting unauthorized audio and video when the site had been asked not to do so. Prince probably could have handled the situation better, but many (and I’m not including the moderators in this group) kept ignoring the request and became adversarial to the requests to stop. A relationship is about defining what each party wants, defining the boundaries of those desires, and then determining if each party can be happy with those terms. Clearly, many of you are not happy with the terms and relationship Prince desires to maintain with his "fans" so it seems that maybe instead of constantly bitching and whining about it y’all should just find another artist who desires to have the type of relationship with fans that you desire to have with an artist. All I want is access to the music, and few other artists have done as much this year as Prince has as giving us access to the music. One may not like the music to which one has been given access, but your ass has been given access.

*

Let me be clear; I don't know Serpan as well as many of you, obviously, so my comments are not about Serpan but about what I see as many fans having an exaggerated or delusional perception of what it means to be a fan. All I want to do is receive art from an artist, enjoy that art in my home and car, during live shows, and, in some cases, have informative discussions with others who also enjoy that work. But, it seems that I have a much more defined line drawn in the sand of where "fandom" ends and infringement begins. Ultimately, Prince has said to his fans over the years: "I don't want your help promoting my work." This has been made clear to us. We either accept it and continue to enjoy the art that we get, or we find other artists to worship...err I mean enjoy who want us to be more involved in promoting their work. Since I'm too lazy to promote anybody else's work than mine, I'll just stick to enjoying Prince's work since I still do.

[Edited 7/27/13 13:58pm]

1725topp,

I agree in almost every respect with your line of thought. So, thank you for your contribution.

I must add, though, that from a relational perspective, Prince's representative's tone, approach and level of professionalism leaves a lot to be desired. Unfortunately, regardless of whether Prince's represenative is in fact - and objectively - "right" about Prince's stance, copyright and the law, the execution of that representative's communication strategy was so poor, that it comes across as amateur. Furthermore, it comes across as condescending. Whilst these are subjective viewpoints, the reality is that the objective stance effectively loses ground and goodwill by the consequences of a subjective backlash. A professional and sensitive handling of communication and PR issues should surely be utilised, especially when one is (it would appear) trying to reach out to a community, as Prince is clearly trying to do here via this channel i.e. to build a relationship with his customer base (fans). Perhaps, there appears to be a strong response to the represenative (and, by default, Prince) because they do not understand the relational dynamic, but I actually think the issue is less about a lack of understanding and more about an inability to conduct an operation professionally. I genuinely believe these types of relationship building issues should be handled by a professional team. Yet these types of PR mistakes have been happening for over a decade. For the commonplace fan, I imagine it becomes difficult to respect the line, when the line drawn has been consistenly done without (it would appear) any genuine degree of relational sensitivity and discernable judgement. Whilst your points are effectively "correct" from almost every respect, it seems you have failed to understand the biggest point: emotion.

Of course, I could be wrong.

.

[Edited 7/27/13 14:38pm]

*

I don't deny that it could have been handled better by Prince or his "team," but if someone has been telling you--the fans in general and not Serpan--not to do something and you consistently do it, then how else do you expect them to react? If I touch a hot stove after I was told not to touch it and get burned, whose fault is that really? And, yes, I don't understand the "emotion" of it all when someone has made it clear what they want and don't want from their fans. After this has been made clear, it just becomes time to "move on" or find an artist that wants the same relationship with one's fans that the fan desires to have.

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Reply #165 posted 07/28/13 3:33am

1725topp

CarolineC said:

1725topp said:

*

At this point, most of us know who and what Prince is and what type of relationship he wants with his fans. But, many of us see the types of relationships that other artists have with their fans and desire a similar type of relationship with Prince. Yet, Prince is not those other artists, and he has made it clear from day one that he is not those other artists.

[Edited 7/27/13 13:58pm]

,

You're right, I see the relationships other artists have with their fans: encouraging dialogue and sharing. And I wish Prince would do more of that. But I always knew he wanted to maintain a distance. However, when it crosses the line into the sort of bullying and disrespect that Prince (or his close associates) showed to Serpan, I have a problem.

I guess I am realizing that there is a lot of good music out there and a lot of deserving artists I could support: local bands and national acts alike. And I would rather spend my time, energy, and money on artists that give more back to their fans and still have some humility. I doubt I will ever give up on Prince completely (I have been a fan since "I Wanna Be Your Lover" came out), but I would rather focus on other artists right now.

*

Then, go enjoy someone else and stop wasting time worrying about Prince and his issues. And, remember, what you call crossing the line with Prince's behavior can be seen by him as being tired of having to tell people what type of relationship he wants to have with his fans or what he does not need or want his fans to do. How many times does he have to say, "Don't do ______," before people get the message. And, since you and I have been fans for about the same amount of time, you should know what he wants by now and do as you just stated--find somebody else to enjoy rather than wasting time complaining about the same ole same ole.

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Reply #166 posted 07/28/13 3:36am

Soulstar77A

1725topp said:

*

I don't deny that it could have been handled better by Prince or his "team," but if someone has been telling you--the fans in general and not Serpan--not to do something and you consistently do it, then how else do you expect them to react?

Do we know for sure that Serpan has been contacted by Princes legal team prior this?

In the chat Serpan stated that nobody had contacted him...

"ohYeeeeeah" said: I'm a massive Bowie fan. Even on Scary Monsters, I always skip Fame ...
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Reply #167 posted 07/28/13 3:39am

1725topp

murph said:

Stymie said:

I have a problem with you guys using the words "bullying". Does ti really rise to that level or are you guys just emotional to the point wthere this is being blown out of proportion?

This is not the point where u want to take up for P and his folks...Nor is it the time to act like u r above it all....It was a shitty thing Prince's people did....And yeah...it was bullying....Again, we all know some fans have been crying wolf on this site, boo-hooing over dumb shit and making P out to be the devil himself who owes them their first child...

But this time? Nah...P and his team deserve to be called out for what it is...

*

Ain't nobody trying to take up for Prince. It's just that some of us don't care to build no personal relationship with Prince. He's been making it clear for years what he wants and does not want. Whether it is right for him to want something or not want something is one thing. But, for years he's said verbally and through his actions what he wants and doesn't want from fans. So, if you continue to do what someone has consistently told you he doesn’t want you to do, even if you think it will help him, what reactions do you think you will get? I’ll keep saying it. Only a child puts their hand on a hot stove and then is surprised when it burns them. How about stop putting your hand on the hot ass stove?

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Reply #168 posted 07/28/13 3:41am

1725topp

PurplePerson said:

1725topp said:

While I agree that one should never be rude or disrespectful to another, in some cases it seems that fans have an exaggerated or delusional notion of their relationship with or role in the career of their favorite artist. The "role" or "place" of a fan is to receive art and to decide if one likes or dislikes the art. The amount of art that one likes and the degree to which one likes the art determines if one is a fan and to what level is one a fan. However, in some cases, people become so enamored with an artist that they want to be more than just fans or they begin to exaggerate what it means to be a fan to feel a part of the artist's work or life. However, if an artist has made it clear, like Prince has, that he isn't interested in fans who think they need to help him promote something or "keep his legacy alive" by posting his work on YouTube or other sites, then one should either respect Prince’s wishes regarding his "copyrighted" material or find another artist to worship...err I mean enjoy.

*

At this point, most of us know who and what Prince is and what type of relationship he wants with his fans. But, many of us see the types of relationships that other artists have with their fans and desire a similar type of relationship with Prince. Yet, Prince is not those other artists, and he has made it clear from day one that he is not those other artists. So, if Prince has made it clear that he doesn't want his fans posting his work to various sites for any reason, why would one be surprised by a negative response from Prince when a fan does something that Prince has made clear he doesn't want done? Only a fool would be surprised or angered by Prince's reaction. The logical thing would be to say "my bad," and stop doing it. Even as a person with bootlegs, do I think it would be wise for me to approach Prince and say, "Dude, I love the bootlegs of the Dakota show and the ten LOL shows that I have"? It would be even more foolish if I actually expected Prince to be happy about it.

*

Of course, some will ask, then why am I a member of Prince.org and earlier of Housequake.com and even earlier Controversy and Uptown? I'm a member of Prince.org and was a member of the others because it is the easiest way to get Prince information. Yes, I engage in discourse about the art, but my primary reason for being here is to learn about the latest album, appearance, or tour. (So, NPG Music Club was cool to me for the access to music. I never chatted on there because all I want is music--audio and video.) The rest (especially chatting online with other fans) is just extra to me, and, in many cases, that extra is a negative waste of time, but there are also several on this site who do offer objective insight about Prince's art regardless of whether or not I agree with their position. And while Serpan seems to be interested in "promoting" Prince, he was doing so in ways that seems to infringe on what Prince views as welcomed. Yes, Prince could have sent him a private letter, but it seems that Prince views Serpan's actions not as an isolated incident but as one aspect of how many fans seem, again, to exaggerate their role or place in Prince's career.

*

I think that Housequake is second only to Controversy as a great place for Prince fans to discuss their admiration for Prince’s work. (If you’re counting, then, yes, that means I have Prince.org listed as third. Yet, I must say that the moderators of both Housequake and Prince.org did/do a wonderful job!) But, many of us did abuse Housequake by posting unauthorized audio and video when the site had been asked not to do so. Prince probably could have handled the situation better, but many (and I’m not including the moderators in this group) kept ignoring the request and became adversarial to the requests to stop. A relationship is about defining what each party wants, defining the boundaries of those desires, and then determining if each party can be happy with those terms. Clearly, many of you are not happy with the terms and relationship Prince desires to maintain with his "fans" so it seems that maybe instead of constantly bitching and whining about it y’all should just find another artist who desires to have the type of relationship with fans that you desire to have with an artist. All I want is access to the music, and few other artists have done as much this year as Prince has as giving us access to the music. One may not like the music to which one has been given access, but your ass has been given access.

*

Let me be clear; I don't know Serpan as well as many of you, obviously, so my comments are not about Serpan but about what I see as many fans having an exaggerated or delusional perception of what it means to be a fan. All I want to do is receive art from an artist, enjoy that art in my home and car, during live shows, and, in some cases, have informative discussions with others who also enjoy that work. But, it seems that I have a much more defined line drawn in the sand of where "fandom" ends and infringement begins. Ultimately, Prince has said to his fans over the years: "I don't want your help promoting my work." This has been made clear to us. We either accept it and continue to enjoy the art that we get, or we find other artists to worship...err I mean enjoy who want us to be more involved in promoting their work. Since I'm too lazy to promote anybody else's work than mine, I'll just stick to enjoying Prince's work since I still do.

Very nicely put. Spot on IMHO

*

Thank you.

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Reply #169 posted 07/28/13 3:42am

Superconductor

avatar

SpiritOtter said:

EyeJester7said:

I think we all could benefit from the use of 'Context'. We can exhuast this from the perspective, that 3EG intention is to be mean. I don't think that was intended.



Honestly, I have zero beef with 3EG, the concept, the potential and the majority of the reality. However, irrespective of whether that 3rdEyeGirl representative's actions were intended to be mean, the subjective reality and phenomenological response from a small but critical mass of independent thinkers surely demonstrates that at the very least - intended or otherwise - there is a professional approach to PR and LEGAL matters and there is this particular 3rdEyeGirl's representative's approach. I honestly do NOT care if his/her approach was intended to be mean, the subjective reality is that it has been perceived by many independent thinkers as defamatory, condescending, distasteful and childish. The unfortunate consequence for Prince is that these types of words (and far more obscene ones) are now concurrently being utilised about him as a result of this representative's actions at a time when, in another reality, Prince has just delivered to his customer base (fans) - free of charge - a quite supreme 100 minute blend of music from other artists, heavenly conceived and executed. So, intended or not, the actions of the 3rdEyeGirl's representative destroyed that goodwill gesture on Prince's part to the point that few are now willing to focus on the music or the goodwill because an unprofessional approach (and I am being polite) was used. It speaks of an amateur, not befitting Prince's stature.


*


So, the question then becomes less about intention and more about the consequence of this representative's ill-conceived and ill-thought out actions, especially with regards the potentially debilitating effect it can have upon a celebrity's artistic brand, which Prince himself has spent quite some time (decades, even) creating and cultivating. Furthermore, if you extrapolate from this potentially isolated and minor incident to another reality consisting of similar minor AND major incidents spanning over 10 year's worth of PR mistakes with regards to substantive legal issues, which would have been better handled by a professional team, it becomes difficult to imagine that Prince would enjoy the consequences of these actions, regardless of whether one's intentions remain noble (and that particular aspect is subject for debate, in this particular representative's case, anyhow). I understand Prince's desire for artistic rights to be protected, but how can anyone respect that cause if such consistent, systematically appalling, methods of communication are deployed to achieve results. A relative small investment in time and money towards a professional team of PR, Communication and Legal experts, would have reaped significant financial reward and emotional goodwill from his customer base (fans). However, a lack of foresight and regard about this matter has it would now appear resulted in THIS type of behaviour with THESE types of unintended consequences. From a purely business perspective, it is a disaster. I shall reserve my comments about what this might suggest from a spiritual perspective, but needless to say, it is equally not good.


*


Surely, Jessie, you can understand this potential line of thought? In fact, I know you well enough from afar to know that you can and do understand. It doesn't mean you are any less of a fan, friend or person for critiquing Prince's methods, but when it's time to call a spade a spade, you can't hide behind potention intentions, when the consistent consequences of these types of actions are so devasting for over a decade (even if the devastation is inflicted upon just one soul, in this case, Serpan). The right kind of actions are required and to deliver the right kind of results for Prince, it would be better for him to take advice from a professional team (and not an amateur one), especially given that he will no doubt often be made aware of the difficulties of operating as an independent artist in a largely unthanking and unforgiving world of business.


*


Cue the music: THE WALK...as the Otter walks off into the sunset to take a splash in the sea before himself being confronted by the 3rdEyeGirl representative (who does indeed sound like Jar Jar Binks).






clapping
[Edited 7/28/13 3:43am]
...every night another symphony...
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Reply #170 posted 07/28/13 3:50am

erik319

avatar

SpiritOtter said:

Prince has just delivered to his customer base (fans) - free of charge - a quite supreme 100 minute blend of music from other artists, heavenly conceived and executed. So, intended or not, the actions of the 3rdEyeGirl's representative destroyed that goodwill gesture on Prince's part.


Seeing as 3EG are so big on copyright infringement, I'd be interested to know if rights were cleared to play this music and respective writers/performers/family received royalty payments owed for the broadcast... Otherwise, 3EG would be being incredibly hypocritical (not that Prince hasn't been guilty of that in the past).

blah blah blah
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Reply #171 posted 07/28/13 3:51am

1725topp

Soulstar77A said:

1725topp said:

*

I don't deny that it could have been handled better by Prince or his "team," but if someone has been telling you--the fans in general and not Serpan--not to do something and you consistently do it, then how else do you expect them to react?

Do we know for sure that Serpan has been contacted by Princes legal team prior this?

In the chat Serpan stated that nobody had contacted him...

*

I never said that Serpan had been contacted by Prince or Prince's legal team prior to this point. If you read clearly, you will notice that I typed "the fans in general not Serpan". Thus, I said that Prince has made it clear to "his fans" for years that he does not want people doing what Serpan has been doing. Whether I agree with Prince or not is not the issue for me. If someone tells you not to do something and you continue doing it, how do you expect them to react?

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Reply #172 posted 07/28/13 4:10am

Xibalba

This is a whole other level of arrogant craziness, and blatantly obvious that was Prince talking down to him.

Serpan's right when he said the thrill has gone. When an artist turns from a visionary into a revisionary, and starts acting like his "real fans" are some kind of exclusive cult then it's over. I never thought i'd ever hear myself say this, but after 30 years of supporting this deluded idiot, i'm done.

Insane.

finger ... prince*

*Bill me, you prick.

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Reply #173 posted 07/28/13 4:33am

Soulstar77A

1725topp said:

Soulstar77A said:

Do we know for sure that Serpan has been contacted by Princes legal team prior this?

In the chat Serpan stated that nobody had contacted him...

*

I never said that Serpan had been contacted by Prince or Prince's legal team prior to this point. If you read clearly, you will notice that I typed "the fans in general not Serpan". Thus, I said that Prince has made it clear to "his fans" for years that he does not want people doing what Serpan has been doing. Whether I agree with Prince or not is not the issue for me. If someone tells you not to do something and you continue doing it, how do you expect them to react?

I expect them to react professional and with just a little bit of class!

But thats probably too much to ask for from a grumpy old and washed-up midget...

Prince is not god, this is not a sect, he's not our cult-leader! Life is no picnic!

The best part is where the compare the "symbol" to the "Coca Cola" logo wall

It's some sort of miracle that he got the copyright on this thing anyway, since it's just a plain copy of some century old alchemical symbols...

[Edited 7/28/13 4:41am]

"ohYeeeeeah" said: I'm a massive Bowie fan. Even on Scary Monsters, I always skip Fame ...
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Reply #174 posted 07/28/13 4:47am

XxAxX

avatar

what the fuckity fuck? Serpan99 i think you rock. for sure i would have missed out on the paisley park parties had it not been for your 'heads up'. i'm grateful. as you know, i joined twitter specifically to follow your tweets. i know your goal was to promote the fun part of the new projects. sorry it turned out this way. don't let the legal bullshit get you down.

removing copyrighted and trademarked images is a legal requirement for the attorneys who maintain prince's business. i think they chose to tell you 'nicely' in person, instead of sending a cease and desist, letter.

still though, ouch. or should i say "ouchah:

hug

neveseven said:

This was the conversation between them on Livestream: (edit out off topic comments)


3RDEYEGIRL: uh oh...serpan will tweet everything said herre
3RDEYEGIRL: everything bite ur lip
3RDEYEGIRL: copy and paste


SERPAN99: yeah...unless u don't want me 2 3EG ;-p


3RDEYEGIRL: actually...
3RDEYEGIRL: can we just chat like normal folk?
3RDEYEGIRL: if people wanna hear from us...shouldn't they have 2 come here
3RDEYEGIRL: whether than frequent ur site?
3RDEYEGIRL: now that we r on the topic...

SERPAN99: define "chat like normal folk"...not all fans like 2 b here 24/7...and search thru the 60 thousand comments on here...just sayin

3RDEYEGIRL:do u alter any of the photographs featured on r sites?
3RDEYEGIRL: and then re-post them on ur site?

SERPAN99: I don't alter anything...I'm all about true info

3RDEYEGIRL: well...let's chack
3RDEYEGIRL: check,even
3RDEYEGIRL: how did 3rdeyetv get on P's shirt?
3RDEYEGIRL: did u alter it?
3RDEYEGIRL: on ur Twitter page

SERPAN99: Oh okay...that's true, but I was promoting ur Livestream account 4 u...u want that changed?

3RDEYEGIRL: and What's wrong with using ur own pic rather than His?

SERPAN99: I'm not about selfpromoting 3EG...so not using my own image

3RDEYEGIRL: leave r ART on r site...it's not there 4 u 2 lift and "alter"
3RDEYEGIRL: we dont need that kind of promotion
3RDEYEGIRL: better 2 ask 1st...what do ya think?

SERPAN99: Well...I did ask u if u want me 2 promote the info u share here in the chat?

3RDEYEGIRL: no
3RDEYEGIRL: we have a site 4 people 2 follow here

SERPAN99: O-tay...gotcha!

3RDEYEGIRL: can u take Prince's image off ur site please?
3RDEYEGIRL: all of them?
3RDEYEGIRL: we do believe management asked u 2 do so weex ago
3RDEYEGIRL: what's the holdup?
3RDEYEGIRL: we want everyone 2 injoy the art........here
3RDEYEGIRL: not elsewhere


SERPAN99: Nope...that request wasn't made 2 me at all, but I just removed the style images as requested


3RDEYEGIRL: we always ask nicely
3RDEYEGIRL: we love u'all

SERPAN99: both background and header have been removed 4 u 3EG

3RDEYEGIRL: very good....appreciated.
3RDEYEGIRL: thanks
3RDEYEGIRL: while u're at it
3RDEYEGIRL: can u take down prince's symbol from ur page
3RDEYEGIRL: it's copywritten
3RDEYEGIRL: and we r here 2 license it's usage

SERPAN99: Not sure where u r seeing Prince's symbol on my site, can u please re-check that 3EG?

3RDEYEGIRL: interesting that people nade fun of that when the name was changed...but now it results in hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue...
3RDEYEGIRL: when it is used without permission
3RDEYEGIRL: a cartoon appears on ur site with it around ur neck...
3RDEYEGIRL: probably need 2 take that down as well....what do ya think?


SERPAN99: Oh okay...so that's what u mean, lemme fix that real fast 4 u...the thrill is gone anywayz


3RDEYEGIRL: joe...no one mentioned money...it's about rights
3RDEYEGIRL: the symbol is just that.
3RDEYEGIRL: a symbol...laws were put on boox 2 protect copyrights
3RDEYEGIRL: NPG created a "symbol" and then copyrighted it
3RDEYEGIRL: it unfair 2 use it without permission
3RDEYEGIRL: plain and simple
3RDEYEGIRL: no?
3RDEYEGIRL: the symbol is copyrighted no different than the coca-cola logo

SERPAN99:So...now that I removed the symbol image 4 u, r u going after the thousands of other Prince fans who r using it as well? And have people remove symbol tattoos?

3RDEYEGIRL: we love serpan...want him 2 stay and vibe with us
3RDEYEGIRL: nope...just u serpan
3RDEYEGIRL: lol

SERPAN99: yeah...I really feel the love, I'm sure some people r njoying the vibe...until it backfires...

3RDEYEGIRL: there is no backfire
3RDEYEGIRL: all an illusion

(smilingjoe and others & erdeyegirl has long conversation about musician rights & music industry then.... )

3RDEYEGIRL: bye, everybody

smilingjoe: don't forget to say sorry to serpan

3RDEYEGIRL: talk 2 Serpan...tell him we love him and want him 2 feel welcome
3RDEYEGIRL: just rather not have r every word splattered all over the internet
3RDEYEGIRL: we like a small gathering like this

*****

(ok i just did what Serpan does copy & pasted from another site but the orginal poster didn't give back story)

[Edited 7/27/13 12:12pm]

[Edited 7/28/13 5:10am]

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Reply #175 posted 07/28/13 4:51am

GoldenParachut
e

To the lame 1% of fans that keep trying to justify 3EG's/Princes lousy behavior, have a seat. What exactly has Prince asked his fans NOT to do that Serpan was guilty of? Aside from Serpan saying he did not get any personal memo from management, what has Serpan done except for being an enthusiastic, friendly, dedicated, loyal fan to Prince? He didnt deserve to be talked to that way no matter how you want to legitimize it. He was singled out, amongst thousands of other fans for using a symbol and forbidden to ever use it again. 3EG could have left it alone after the first "demand", but they chose to extend it further than necessary by the other 3 demands that were pompous and petty. I would feel humiliated if I were Serpan.
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Reply #176 posted 07/28/13 4:52am

Se7en

avatar

The old customer service adage of "A satisfied customer will tell 1 person; a dissatisfied customer will ten 10 people" is amplified in this case.

They'll lose hundreds of fans from this...not just because of the way they treated Serpan, but also because he was providing a service that's now gone.

So what they've effectively done here, if I'm reading this correctly, is to NOT spread the word or tell a friend. Done.
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Reply #177 posted 07/28/13 4:57am

gerhard12

enough is enough, that fan treatment is ridiculous, lets quit!serpan peace
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Reply #178 posted 07/28/13 5:09am

Se7en

avatar

Here's a thought: at the next Prince concert, just set up a "recycling" bin for all things Symbol. Necklaces, hats, shirts, etc. I doubt most fans would part with their collectibles, but it would send a message.
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Reply #179 posted 07/28/13 5:15am

Soulstar77A

^^ great idea lol

Also bring some tomatos just in case he says "We'll be here all night" just to end the concert 10 minutes later again wink

"ohYeeeeeah" said: I'm a massive Bowie fan. Even on Scary Monsters, I always skip Fame ...
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