The way that playing with Miles and Zappa was a musicians write of passage or music lesson. If you could past muster with working with Zappa and Miles it meant you went thorugh it and were ready to for anything and had the skills to do anything henceforth. Not to mention going on to their own career glory.

I imagine its the same with going through the recruitment and bootcamp of working in Prince land. Many got their purple merit badge by working with and survivng Prince.

I'm sorry this post does not have any Prince pics with his clothes off or stuff like that.

While it sounds good RD, who are the survivors that went on to do great things?

Zappa has Steve Via and a handful of others and Miles has an endless list.

Prince has Sheila E (still looking good but musically?) then there' the list of hot woman he did...

I never really got the greatness of Zappa or Miles.

I guess I never will.

Slave2daGroove said:

While it sounds good RD, who are the survivors that went on to do great things?

Zappa has Steve Via and a handful of others and Miles has an endless list.

Prince has Sheila E (still looking good but musically?) then there' the list of hot woman he did...

You mean, besides Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, Morris Day, Wendy & Lisa, Jellybean Johnson, St. Paul, Andre Cymone, Michael Bland and Tommy Barbarella? Near as I can tell, they're all still working and still making a living as musicians. And there's more beyond that for sure.

Slave2daGroove said:

While it sounds good RD, who are the survivors that went on to do great things?

Zappa has Steve Via and a handful of others and Miles has an endless list.

Prince has Sheila E (still looking good but musically?) then there' the list of hot woman he did...

Yeah I was going to mention that but didnt want to seem like I was dogging other Prince folks. Yeah we have Steve Vais, Cucurrullos, George Dukes, Herbie Hancock's etc etc (list is endless kind of)..and not many became name brands but they did continue working in some important projects after Prince.

Fink, W&L, Paul Peterson, Sheila, Cymone, Jam & Lewis etc....

but even though its laughed aout regarding working for Prince being the kiss of death for ones career, it seems like many musicians still clamor to work with him or did in the past. I know a lot of new or unheralded musicians look at it as a top stock position to put on ones resume.

.

[Edited 3/18/13 12:04pm]

papabeat said:

Slave2daGroove said:

While it sounds good RD, who are the survivors that went on to do great things?

Zappa has Steve Via and a handful of others and Miles has an endless list.

Prince has Sheila E (still looking good but musically?) then there' the list of hot woman he did...

You mean, besides Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, Morris Day, Wendy & Lisa, Jellybean Johnson, St. Paul, Andre Cymone, Michael Bland and Tommy Barbarella? Near as I can tell, they're all still working and still making a living as musicians. And there's more beyond that for sure.

He said, "went on to do great things"!

papabeat said:

Slave2daGroove said:

While it sounds good RD, who are the survivors that went on to do great things?

Zappa has Steve Via and a handful of others and Miles has an endless list.

Prince has Sheila E (still looking good but musically?) then there' the list of hot woman he did...

You mean, besides Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, Morris Day, Wendy & Lisa, Jellybean Johnson, St. Paul, Andre Cymone, Michael Bland and Tommy Barbarella? Near as I can tell, they're all still working and still making a living as musicians. And there's more beyond that for sure.

Yeah, why they are not all exactly name brand musicians, they have had continuing careers in music. Which is a rare thing and a hard thing. Not all musiicans make it enough to do just only music to put food on the table.

Regardless, seems like working in the Prince ranks is a musicians bootcamp akin to getting the chance ot work with Zappa and Miles.

Not sure of wrking qith hm and them made folks 'better' per se' or if they already had that in them and were swept up by the seasoned vets ..

and regarding the dgs at the people he "did" who most say had no talent anyways it always reminds me of the scene in All That Jazz (yall better see that movie)

Victoria: Well, you're right. I'm terrible. I know I'm terrible. I look at the mirror and I'm ashamed. Maybe I should quit. I just can't seem to do anything right.
Joe Gideon: Listen. I can't make you a great dancer. I don't even know if I can make you a good dancer. But, if you keep trying and don't quit, I know I can make you a better dancer. I'd like very much to do that. Stay?
Victoria: Are you going to keep yelling at me?
Joe Gideon: Probably.

.

[Edited 3/18/13 12:18pm]

motherfunka said:

papabeat said:

You mean, besides Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, Morris Day, Wendy & Lisa, Jellybean Johnson, St. Paul, Andre Cymone, Michael Bland and Tommy Barbarella? Near as I can tell, they're all still working and still making a living as musicians. And there's more beyond that for sure.

He said, "went on to do great things"!

Jimmy and Terry are the most succesul producers in music hisory racking up 16 # 1 hits.

Wendy and Lisa are Emmy winning scorers of movies and tv..

Jelllyean has produced numbers hits for Janet and New edition.

Andre -Jody watley

the list of what his camp has done amazing

lwr001 said:

motherfunka said:

He said, "went on to do great things"!

Jimmy and Terry are the most succesul producers in music hisory racking up 16 # 1 hits.

Wendy and Lisa are Emmy winning scorers of movies and tv..

Jelllyean has produced numbers hits for Janet and New edition.

Andre -Jody watley

the list of what his camp has done amazing

Slave2daGroove said:

While it sounds good RD, who are the survivors that went on to do great things?

Zappa has Steve Via and a handful of others and Miles has an endless list.

Prince has Sheila E (still looking good but musically?) then there' the list of hot woman he did...

One could even make the case that Carmen Elecktra has had a great career post Prince...20 plus years and still working...

Professor John Blackwell and Prof Susan Rogers here in Boston at Berklee Music School..

Just curious where the urban legend that he was a career killer came from.

Roy Bennett.. Set and lighteing designer for anyone and everyone who has a big tour.. Started with Prince..Now runs Gaga's Monster tour

[Edited 3/18/13 13:08pm]

Drummer Terry Bozzio and guitarist Steve Vai describe how a Zappa audition went. Some lol quotes there.

SuperSoulFighter said:

Hmmm... What can I say, interesting thread for sure. How many here know Betty Davis? Even being Miles' ex wife can bring you a carreer in music. Or Franks child... Seriously... I think Miles is the only one who really introduced his band members to a larger audience...jazz fans luuvvv John Coltrane and John McLaughlin to name just 2. I have yet to see someone from the Prince camp to go on and have a reputation like that.

Jimmy Jam is the Chairman Emiritous of NARAS...

SuperSoulFighter said:

Hmmm... What can I say, interesting thread for sure. How many here know Betty Davis? Even being Miles' ex wife can bring you a carreer in music. Or Franks child... Seriously... I think Miles is the only one who really introduced his band members to a larger audience...jazz fans luuvvv John Coltrane and John McLaughlin to name just 2. I have yet to see someone from the Prince camp to go on and have a reputation like that.

I have two of her cds (Betty Davis)

and no there isnt any Coltrane status purple alumni but we are talking pop music here..and Jam and Lewis fit 'Trane status in this area imo

I meant Bozzio instead oc Currucullo from M Persons..I thoguht Warren was a Zappa alumni too though..ah my memory is shot

Shango said:

Drummer Terry Bozzio and guitarist Steve Vai describe how a Zappa audition went. Some lol quotes there.

rdhull said:

SuperSoulFighter said:

Hmmm... What can I say, interesting thread for sure. How many here know Betty Davis? Even being Miles' ex wife can bring you a carreer in music. Or Franks child... Seriously... I think Miles is the only one who really introduced his band members to a larger audience...jazz fans luuvvv John Coltrane and John McLaughlin to name just 2. I have yet to see someone from the Prince camp to go on and have a reputation like that.

I have two of her cds (Betty Davis)

and no there isnt any Coltrane status purple alumni but we are talking pop music here..and Jam and Lewis fit 'Trane status in this area imo

Absolutely...plus on the business side Flyte Tyme was the bomb,,,,didn't get much bigger or resonate with an audience then their work,,,,Lastly, Jimmy is currently the Chairman if NARAS... That encompasses all genres of music,,,there is a repsect there from someoe

Don't forget about Jesse. But he was shreddin' already when the Minneapolis snow was shrugged from his shoulders by The Time and then introduced to mister Nelson. One anecdote I remember (might be from Jesse) was when Prince recruited The Time to be on cue with their choreoraphy while performing their tight grooves onstage.

rdhull said: I meant Bozzio instead oc Currucullo from M Persons..I thoguht Warren was a Zappa alumni too though..ah my memory is shot

Ah okay lol, the drummers I'm familiar with from Zappa's camp are Terry, Vinnie Colaiuta and to some degree Chad Wackerman.

*spelling edit*

[Edited 3/18/13 14:13pm]

i was thinking about this yesterday

after realising plectrum electrum was from one of donna's jams, i started checking her out on youtube, and found i dig her playing... then i got to thinking about how it would be for her to get to work with prince, and how that will affect her long-term

rdhull said:

I meant Bozzio instead oc Currucullo from M Persons..I thoguht Warren was a Zappa alumni too though..ah my memory is shot

Shango said:

Drummer Terry Bozzio and guitarist Steve Vai describe how a Zappa audition went. Some lol quotes there.

Warren is a Zappa guy. He played on the legendary Joe's Garage album at the very least.

Also, Zappa's musicians got treated fairly, got paid and were hired for every reason EXCEPT looks. There's a reason why the best musicians alive today won't play with Prince. What do you think would happen if Prince hired Vinnie Colaiuta to wear robes like Michael Bland? Prince is too much drama for Marcus Miller-types. Prince is like George Lucas - hired no-name peeps who will be star-struck and will be getting paid more than they ever have for music, (being no-names and all) and are looking for that lucky break. Zappa was a stright-shooting class act. If you could pass the audition you had his professional respect and you were treated well as long as you continued to o your job. While all repots indicat that Prince has gotten better with pay and his ridiculous mind games, who really knows? I think Miles was pretty respectful, too. Miles could be freaky, but if he thought you were good enough to play with him you got treated pretty well AND you were probably helping write the material for or with him.

I love Prince and I greatly respect his skill, be he's chosen to have a non-reality-based experience and until that changes he's not going to be in the same league as Zappa and probably Miles. Zappa was brilliant with music and very aware of the world around him. Prince likes to think and imaginary man in the sky is responsible for everything good and an imaginary guy in the ground is responsible for everything bad. He is right in not believing in hell, though. JW's certainly have that right.

Zappa's guys can talk about their experiences because they weren't forced to sign non-disclosure agreements for their jobs. What does prince have to hide that Zappa or Miles Davis wouldn't? Mystical, very potentially embarrassing cult of personality kind of crap, I'd wager.

steakfinger said:

rdhull said:

I meant Bozzio instead oc Currucullo from M Persons..I thoguht Warren was a Zappa alumni too though..ah my memory is shot

Warren is a Zappa guy. He played on the legendary Joe's Garage album at the very least.

Also, Zappa's musicians got treated fairly, got paid and were hired for every reason EXCEPT looks. There's a reason why the best musicians alive today won't play with Prince. What do you think would happen if Prince hired Vinnie Colaiuta to wear robes like Michael Bland? Prince is too much drama for Marcus Miller-types. Prince is like George Lucas - hired no-name peeps who will be star-struck and will be getting paid more than they ever have for music, (being no-names and all) and are looking for that lucky break. Zappa was a stright-shooting class act. If you could pass the audition you had his professional respect and you were treated well as long as you continued to o your job. While all repots indicat that Prince has gotten better with pay and his ridiculous mind games, who really knows? I think Miles was pretty respectful, too. Miles could be freaky, but if he thought you were good enough to play with him you got treated pretty well AND you were probably helping write the material for or with him.

I love Prince and I greatly respect his skill, be he's chosen to have a non-reality-based experience and until that changes he's not going to be in the same league as Zappa and probably Miles. Zappa was brilliant with music and very aware of the world around him. Prince likes to think and imaginary man in the sky is responsible for everything good and an imaginary guy in the ground is responsible for everything bad. He is right in not believing in hell, though. JW's certainly have that right.

Zappa's guys can talk about their experiences because they weren't forced to sign non-disclosure agreements for their jobs. What does prince have to hide that Zappa or Miles Davis wouldn't? Mystical, very potentially embarrassing cult of personality kind of crap, I'd wager.

Come on, lets not romanticize Zappa and Miles and demonize Prince. Zappa and Miles (esp Miles) were known assholes. To their band members, to the audience at times, and personally. Prince is the same. A lot of the reason Prince has folks sign confidentiality agreements is to perserve some mystery about him, which has always been a part of his plan. It isnt all just to keep people from saying anything negative. While Zappa let his band members come into their own as well as Miles, you cant possibly think that they were not control freaks themselves.

MoBetterBliss said:

i was thinking about this yesterday

after realising plectrum electrum was from one of donna's jams, i started checking her out on youtube, and found i dig her playing... then i got to thinking about how it would be for her to get to work with prince, and how that will affect her long-term

She should be fine is she stays grounded and realizes this isnt a lifetime gig.

rdhull said:

MoBetterBliss said:

i was thinking about this yesterday

after realising plectrum electrum was from one of donna's jams, i started checking her out on youtube, and found i dig her playing... then i got to thinking about how it would be for her to get to work with prince, and how that will affect her long-term

She should be fine is she stays grounded and realizes this isnt a lifetime gig.

Lomg tern hell short term she will have taht cache of supporting Prince.. short term, there is not a an equipment mfg who want atke her call for guitars, effects etc,, same goes for hanna...endorsements out the ass

SuperSoulFighter said:

Yes, Jimmy & Terry went on to have a great status as producers, no argument there. But as a producer you stay in the background, so I'm pretty sure there's folks who listen to Janet Jackson and have no idea who Jam & Lewis are. That says nothing about their qualties or reputation but I guess it does say something about pop music. So be it...

I know where you are coming from (what youre saying) but I think everyone who listens to Janet know who Jimmy and Terry are.

Graycap23 said:

I never really got the greatness of Zappa or Miles.

I guess I never will.

Really?! Man, I can't imagine my life without Miles. I strongly recommend lighting a few candles and listening to "In a Silent Way" or "Miles in the Sky". Or "Someday My Prince Will Come". Masterpieces, all of them.

rdhull said:

steakfinger said:

Warren is a Zappa guy. He played on the legendary Joe's Garage album at the very least.

Also, Zappa's musicians got treated fairly, got paid and were hired for every reason EXCEPT looks. There's a reason why the best musicians alive today won't play with Prince. What do you think would happen if Prince hired Vinnie Colaiuta to wear robes like Michael Bland? Prince is too much drama for Marcus Miller-types. Prince is like George Lucas - hired no-name peeps who will be star-struck and will be getting paid more than they ever have for music, (being no-names and all) and are looking for that lucky break. Zappa was a stright-shooting class act. If you could pass the audition you had his professional respect and you were treated well as long as you continued to o your job. While all repots indicat that Prince has gotten better with pay and his ridiculous mind games, who really knows? I think Miles was pretty respectful, too. Miles could be freaky, but if he thought you were good enough to play with him you got treated pretty well AND you were probably helping write the material for or with him.

I love Prince and I greatly respect his skill, be he's chosen to have a non-reality-based experience and until that changes he's not going to be in the same league as Zappa and probably Miles. Zappa was brilliant with music and very aware of the world around him. Prince likes to think and imaginary man in the sky is responsible for everything good and an imaginary guy in the ground is responsible for everything bad. He is right in not believing in hell, though. JW's certainly have that right.

Zappa's guys can talk about their experiences because they weren't forced to sign non-disclosure agreements for their jobs. What does prince have to hide that Zappa or Miles Davis wouldn't? Mystical, very potentially embarrassing cult of personality kind of crap, I'd wager.

Come on, lets not romanticize Zappa and Miles and demonize Prince. Zappa and Miles (esp Miles) were known assholes. To their band members, to the audience at times, and personally. Prince is the same. A lot of the reason Prince has folks sign confidentiality agreements is to perserve some mystery about him, which has always been a part of his plan. It isnt all just to keep people from saying anything negative. While Zappa let his band members come into their own as well as Miles, you cant possibly think that they were not control freaks themselves.

Hmm, Miles was an asshole to many, but he respected the musicians that worked for him and gave them plenty of creative freedom. While he might not have been nice to "hang around with" all the time, I don't think he really tried to control the ones that he respected.