To the point that he's just copying other artists who copy him? I remember first digging on Prince and thinking he reminded me of Sly Stone, Hendrix and James Brown. People like that. Then in the late 80's and early 90's, I'd see other artists (Kravitz, George Michael, Terrance D'Arby) and feel like they reminded me of Prince. Now, after watching the Kimmel performance, even though I liked it, I was nagged with the feeling that I'd seen it before and then it hit me. Now I feel like Prince is doing his best lenny Kravitz impression.

It's like when I do my Bill Cosby impression but it's just me doing Eddie Murphy doing Bill Cosby.

I think the days of ground breaking originality are long since past. Ahrdly a revelation but it's never been more clear to me. I like the new stuff and all, but damn if we're not right on the edge of self parody at this point. Kravitz is the biggest rip off of all time and damn if Prince aint ripping him off right back.

How old am I again? Anyone else feeling this way?

A friend called me after the Fallon performance and said "Prince is Back!!"

Meanwhile, he left me kind of empty and wanting more. But I think I'm just spoiled.

I think it is clear that people have so many different ideas about his music.

And it is also clear how many people worship him, based on the lack of replies to this thread.

Hmmm. Well he was influenced by Neo Soul or whatever it was called on TRC, and there's usually at least one or two tracks on the 00s albums that is aping some recent sound in pop music - Laydown (vomit) springs to mind as the last such one.

herb4 said:

I think the days of ground breaking originality are long since past. Ahrdly a revelation but it's never been more clear to me. I like the new stuff and all, but damn if we're not right on the edge of self parody at this point. Kravitz is the biggest rip off of all time and damn if Prince aint ripping him off right back.

Funny you mentioned that.To me,"Screwdriver" sounds like a weak Lenny Kravitz song.I know Prince can do better than that.

You guys are terribly demanding. After 35 years or so years, what do you expect??? Also the music industry has so completely changed in that time and there is sooooo much music out there now.

He might not be groundbreaking anymore in terms of mixing genres (there are lots of bands who do that now), but Prince still brings the goods. He is still creative.

I enjoy the new stuff as much as the old stuff. "Down" has something amazing. Although the original version of "RNRLA" should've been given to Dolly Parton. Remix 7 is fantastic. "Screwdriver" is quite good - sung by a 54 year old Jehova's witness who dates a gorgeous 20-something year old talent called Andy Allo...? Cheeky.

So, in answer to your question: No. It's a forward moving spiral.

i see it differently. prince has always been a chameleon. he has always gone through noticeable 'periods' like the jimi hendrix phase, where a lot of his onstage persona was borrowed from jimi's stage look. is he trending towards someone else's look now? maybe. but he's still always going to be prince. the day that prince stops reinventing hiself is the day to really worry about.

herb4 said:

To the point that he's just copying other artists who copy him? I remember first digging on Prince and thinking he reminded me of Sly Stone, Hendrix and James Brown. People like that. Then in the late 80's and early 90's, I'd see other artists (Kravitz, George Michael, Terrance D'Arby) and feel like they reminded me of Prince. Now, after watching the Kimmel performance, even though I liked it, I was nagged with the feeling that I'd seen it before and then it hit me. Now I feel like Prince is doing his best lenny Kravitz impression.

It's like when I do my Bill Cosby impression but it's just me doing Eddie Murphy doing Bill Cosby.

I think the days of ground breaking originality are long since past. Ahrdly a revelation but it's never been more clear to me. I like the new stuff and all, but damn if we're not right on the edge of self parody at this point. Kravitz is the biggest rip off of all time and damn if Prince aint ripping him off right back.

How old am I again? Anyone else feeling this way?

LOL, some professional guitarists I know said that after the Fallon performance, Lenny Kravitz was probably put on suicide watch.

In this day and age, I don't think anyone can be groundbreaking anymore

I think for an album to really stir things up, even if the music isn't PR SOTT level,

he would have to really release a cohesive set of songs. Don't worry about putting out 12 songs

release 6 of the baddest or best songs. Put 2gether some really Prince world inspired videos, do shows surrounding the music (which means play music (your own music) that blends well) get the look down, because that 4 Prince is a big thing. It has to be an era.

Some people say Lovesexy wasn't the best of a Prince album, it didn't sell well, but if you look at the time/the Lovesexy era, it was HUGE and burned into the hearts and memories of any fan that lived it.

If Prince released: Breakfast Can Wait, That Girl Thang, Down, Ain't Gonna Miss U, 2 Young 2 Dare and maybe 1 more, I would love it, 6 songs good Prince feel, nice album artwork and perform the songs I would be happy

herb4 said:

To the point that he's just copying other artists who copy him? I remember first digging on Prince and thinking he reminded me of Sly Stone, Hendrix and James Brown. People like that. Then in the late 80's and early 90's, I'd see other artists (Kravitz, George Michael, Terrance D'Arby) and feel like they reminded me of Prince. Now, after watching the Kimmel performance, even though I liked it, I was nagged with the feeling that I'd seen it before and then it hit me. Now I feel like Prince is doing his best lenny Kravitz impression.

It's like when I do my Bill Cosby impression but it's just me doing Eddie Murphy doing Bill Cosby.

I think the days of ground breaking originality are long since past. Ahrdly a revelation but it's never been more clear to me. I like the new stuff and all, but damn if we're not right on the edge of self parody at this point. Kravitz is the biggest rip off of all time and damn if Prince aint ripping him off right back.

How old am I again? Anyone else feeling this way?

If you feel like "Screwdriver" is a rip off of Lenny Kravitz, you need to educate yourself about Rock N' Roll.

You really think that basic guitar rock originated with Lenny Kravitz? As far as Prince playing that type of rock, have you never heard albums like The Undertaker or Chaos and Disorder? Song like "Peach" or "Guitar"?

skywalker said:

herb4 said:

To the point that he's just copying other artists who copy him? I remember first digging on Prince and thinking he reminded me of Sly Stone, Hendrix and James Brown. People like that. Then in the late 80's and early 90's, I'd see other artists (Kravitz, George Michael, Terrance D'Arby) and feel like they reminded me of Prince. Now, after watching the Kimmel performance, even though I liked it, I was nagged with the feeling that I'd seen it before and then it hit me. Now I feel like Prince is doing his best lenny Kravitz impression.

It's like when I do my Bill Cosby impression but it's just me doing Eddie Murphy doing Bill Cosby.

I think the days of ground breaking originality are long since past. Ahrdly a revelation but it's never been more clear to me. I like the new stuff and all, but damn if we're not right on the edge of self parody at this point. Kravitz is the biggest rip off of all time and damn if Prince aint ripping him off right back.

How old am I again? Anyone else feeling this way?

If you feel like "Screwdriver" is a rip off of Lenny Kravitz, you need to educate yourself about Rock N' Roll.

You really think that basic guitar rock originated with Lenny Kravitz? As far as Prince playing that type of rock, have you never heard albums like The Undertaker or Chaos and Disorder? Song like "Peach" or "Guitar"?

Welp, let's close the thread then. The guy with the Doctorate degree in rock and roll is here to school us all and has apparently spoken the Final Word.

Why don't you go back and re-read my post, then re-read yours, compare them and see if you can pinpoint the logistical flaws in your snarky, arrogant reply. Here's a hint: it has something to with the term "cyclical" and the thread title "Full Circle".

If you don't think that that Fallon performance was dripping with "Are You Gonna Go My Way" style, substance and sound, then I don't know what to tell you. We can agree to disagree and, if it helps you any, I'll defer to your superior knowledge of all things rock and roll, but you don't have to be an asshole about it.

You really think that basic guitar rock originated with Lenny Kravitz?

Yes, that's clearly what I meant when I said that "Kravitz is the greatest ripoff artist of all time." Are you seeing the problem here (re: reading comprehension)?

[Edited 3/12/13 13:36pm]

[Edited 3/12/13 16:32pm]

OldFriends4Sale said:

In this day and age, I don't think anyone can be groundbreaking anymore

I agree with this.Too much has already done.There's just no more ground to break,anymore.

These days,I just settle for "good music".It doesn't have to be groundbreaking,it just has to 'move' me somehow.

Umm, I wonder if Prince has the master for Bambi back...?

His fro is like a re-start, a new beginning, like when he first got started...

I have been waiting on the 1999/Purple Rain hair to come back... Keep growing that fro Prince~

Prince may be coming full circle with Prince

Thats the Vibe I am feeling~

SoulAlive said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

In this day and age, I don't think anyone can be groundbreaking anymore

I agree with this.Too much has already done.There's just no more ground to break,anymore.

These days,I just settle for "good music".It doesn't have to be groundbreaking,it just has to 'move' me somehow.

Artists have been making this argument forever though so I don't know if that's true or not. As an artist myself, I feel that way a lot; wondering if there's anything "new" or original left for me to contribute or invent.

All I meant in my OP was that it's never been more glaringly obvious to me how much the circle has spun; when I (and several of my friends, in fact) suddenly found themselves opining "Gee, that was not bad but Prince really reminds me of Lenny Kravitz right there". Time was when people used to watch Lenny, they'd say that he reminded them of Prince.

I'm trying to think of another alalogy to clarify my point further and also to deflect the criticism of internet music experts who mistakenly think I know nothing about rock, but I'm drawing a blank at the moment.

buttcheeks said:

Umm, I wonder if Prince has the master for Bambi back...?

His fro is like a re-start, a new beginning, like when he first got started...

I have been waiting on the 1999/Purple Rain hair to come back... Keep growing that fro Prince~

Prince may be coming full circle with Prince

Thats the Vibe I am feeling~

I Like That

This thread makes Homer Simpson come to my mind.

There's Big Ben; there's Piccadilly Circus; there's Jimmy Page, the greatest thief of American black music who ever walked the Earth

herb4 said:

skywalker said:

Welp, let's close the thread then. The guy with the Doctorate degree in rock and roll is here to school us all and has apparently spoken the Final Word.

Meow. I am just talking to you, not here to school anyone. You basically said that you watched Fallon and felt as if Prince was copying/channeling/impersonating Lenny Kravitz. If that's what you took away from the performance, so be it. You should change the title of the thread to "Why I have come circle with Prince and what I think is influencing him."

Why don't you go back and re-read my post, then re-read yours, compare them and see if you can pinpoint the logistical flaws in your snarky, arrogant reply. Here's a hint: it has something to with the term "cyclical" and the thread title "Full Circle".

I read and reread you op before I posted. If your point is about the cyclical nature of pop/rock music, it is a muddled point at best. There are two BIG weaknesses of your premise:

1. Prince had/has done guitar based rock performances, like he did on Fallon, way before Lenny Kravitz was even famous. If his performance reminds you of Lenny, rather than Jimi, or rather than early Prince...that's all about you and your perception. It says nothing about Prince coming full circle (to meet your personal interpretations of music) or music being cyclical.

If you don't think that that Fallon performance was dripping with "Are You Gonna Go My Way" style, substance and sound, then I don't know what to tell you. We can agree to disagree and, if it helps you any, I'll defer to your superior knowledge of all things rock and roll, but you don't have to be an asshole about it.

2. As much as I like it, "Are you gonna go my way" is one of the LEAST original rock songs ever. When that song came out in the 90's it was a nod to 70's rock, and already an homage to an homage to a bygone era. Is it more likely that Prince is styling himself on Lenny Kravitz circa early 90's, or that he has the same influences as Kravitz and generations of others (aka the 60's/70's rock guitar gods)?

If you see Prince play late 60's or 70's style guitar rock (which "screwdriver" is, and which Prince has done many times before "screwdriver") and you are reminded of Lenny Kravitz instead of Jimmy Page, or Jimi Hendrix, then it does suggest that you simply have a limited vocabulary/appreciation of rock and roll. Kravitz is not the source for that type of rock/performance and, as I said, Prince did this type of shit years before Kravitz was even around.

Yes, that's clearly what I meant when I said that "Kravitz is the greatest ripoff artist of all time." Are you seeing the problem here (re: reading comprehension)?

The problem is that you call Kravitz the greatest rip off artist of all time, and then you say you think that Prince is modeling himself after Lenny. Prince is, like usual, showing the influences of Jimi, or Santana, or Zeppelin....maybe Bachman Turner in this case. Sorry if I sound like an asshole to you, but your theory/evidence is weak and muddled.

Again, If you really think Prince is doing Lenny Kravitz's take on Prince, then you take in/perceive music and performances way different than me. Agree to disagree.

[Edited 3/12/13 19:17pm]

[Edited 3/12/13 20:34pm]

3rdeyedude said:

And it is also clear how many people worship him, based on the lack of replies to this thread.

Worship?

herb4 said:

I'd see other artists (Kravitz, George Michael, Terrance D'Arby) and feel like they reminded me of Prince.

Fonkyman said:

herb4 said:

I'd see other artists (Kravitz, George Michael, Terrance D'Arby) and feel like they reminded me of Prince.

You don't think "I Want Your Sex", "Faith", or even "Father Figure" sound like Prince songs or show his influence? Shit, the first two...if Prince had recorded them they'd be considered classics in his lexicon.

skywalker said:

herb4 said:

2. As much as I like it, "Are you gonna go my way" is one of the LEAST original rock songs ever. When that song came out in the 90's it was a nod to 70's rock, and already an homage to an homage to a bygone era. Is it more likely that Prince is styling himself on Lenny Kravitz circa early 90's, or that he has the same influences as Kravitz and generations of others (aka the 60's/70's rock guitar gods)?

If you see Prince play late 60's or 70's style guitar rock (which "screwdriver" is, and which Prince has done many times before "screwdriver") and you are reminded of Lenny Kravitz instead of Jimmy Page, or Jimi Hendrix, then it does suggest that you simply have a limited vocabulary/appreciation of rock and roll. Kravitz is not the source for that type of rock/performance and, as I said, Prince did this type of shit years before Kravitz was even around.

Yes, that's clearly what I meant when I said that "Kravitz is the greatest ripoff artist of all time." Are you seeing the problem here (re: reading comprehension)?

The problem is that you call Kravitz the greatest rip off artist of all time, and then you say you think that Prince is modeling himself after Lenny. Prince is, like usual, showing the influences of Jimi, or Santana, or Zeppelin....maybe Bachman Turner in this case. Sorry if I sound like an asshole to you, but your theory/evidence is weak and muddled.

Again, If you really think Prince is doing Lenny Kravitz's take on Prince, then you take in/perceive music and performances way different than me. Agree to disagree.

Thanks for the thoughtful and well thought out reply. You replied to me so that's who I assumed you were addressing.

We're all over the place here and you seem to be missing my point, while other people seem to know what I'm talking about. Even if you don't, I'm sorry if my point is muddled and unclear. Maybe Im getting shitier at writing.

Long story short, the Kimmel preformance reminded me of a Kravitz show, and it struck me as odd becuase Lenny is entirely unoriginal while Prince, even though obviously influenced by James, Sly, Hendrix, Zeppelin, Clinton, Santana, etc. etc. never seemed so obvious about it. Kravitz built his career ripping off Hendrix, the Beatles, Prince and a hundred other people, the same way Prince did to an extent, but not nearly as blatant. I didn't mention Page, Jimi, Marvin Gaye, Otis Redding, The Rolling Stones or Little Richard because it seemed self evident to anyone who knows about music and when I declared Lenny the ultimate rip off artist I didn't realize I had to establish my rock and roll credibility by going back that far. I didn't mention Muddy Waters, Howlin Wolf or Robert Johnson either, but that was never my point.

I'm pretty sure I'm old enough and well versed enough in music to really get into it if you feel like it. My point was it was WEIRD to watch Prince perform and go "Huh. That was incredibly Lenny-esque. If I wanted to see that, I'd just go watch Lenny Kravitz." I felt the same way about "Dreamer", which was so blatantly Hendrix-like that it damned near ruined the song for me. I get influence and I even get blatant plagiarism (see: Led Zeppelin). I've seen Prince perform in ways that reminded directly of someone he was ripping off (James, Jimi, Sly, George), but never someone who SO BLATANTLY and SHAMELESSY WHO RIPPED OFF HIM. He's imitating his imitators (that are imitating others, including him) is what I mean, OK?

Trust me, skywalker, I don't need a lesson in Rock 101. I assumed a certain level of pre-supposed knowledge on the matter when I posted the thread.

Marrk said:

3rdeyedude said:

And it is also clear how many people worship him, based on the lack of replies to this thread.

Worship?

At times, yes. You can recognize them from their L33T speak, lack of punctuation, obsession with Prince's clothes and make up, poor grammar and constantly telling everyone else to leave the forums.

If he is on the spin like the rest of the world, how old will he be by the time he gets round to the new Parade, Times and Lovesexy?

If the afro of today is the respin of For You we've got about 10 years til we see him screaming out blinders with Pee-P written down his trouser leg. Maybe we'll see the Lavender Angel, hear I Wish U Veggies and Anna Stenna and all get a good nights kip.

herb4 said:

Thanks for the thoughtful and well thought out reply. You replied to me so that's who I assumed you were addressing.

We're all over the place here and you seem to be missing my point, while other people seem to know what I'm talking about. Even if you don't, I'm sorry if my point is muddled and unclear. Maybe Im getting shitier at writing.

Long story short, the Kimmel preformance reminded me of a Kravitz show, and it struck me as odd becuase Lenny is entirely unoriginal while Prince, even though obviously influenced by James, Sly, Hendrix, Zeppelin, Clinton, Santana, etc. etc. never seemed so obvious about it. Kravitz built his career ripping off Hendrix, the Beatles, Prince and a hundred other people, the same way Prince did to an extent, but not nearly as blatant. I didn't mention Page, Jimi, Marvin Gaye, Otis Redding, The Rolling Stones or Little Richard because it seemed self evident to anyone who knows about music and when I declared Lenny the ultimate rip off artist I didn't realize I had to establish my rock and roll credibility by going back that far. I didn't mention Muddy Waters, Howlin Wolf or Robert Johnson either, but that was never my point.

I'm pretty sure I'm old enough and well versed enough in music to really get into it if you feel like it. My point was it was WEIRD to watch Prince perform and go "Huh. That was incredibly Lenny-esque. If I wanted to see that, I'd just go watch Lenny Kravitz." I felt the same way about "Dreamer", which was so blatantly Hendrix-like that it damned near ruined the song for me. I get influence and I even get blatant plagiarism (see: Led Zeppelin). I've seen Prince perform in ways that reminded directly of someone he was ripping off (James, Jimi, Sly, George), but never someone who SO BLATANTLY and SHAMELESSY WHO RIPPED OFF HIM. He's imitating his imitators (that are imitating others, including him) is what I mean, OK?

Trust me, skywalker, I don't need a lesson in Rock 101. I assumed a certain level of pre-supposed knowledge on the matter when I posted the thread.

Cool. Thank you for the response as well. I think I get what you are saying now. Prince is wearing his influences more obviously now...as much as Lenny Kravitz usually does.

That said, I do think there is an argument to be made that Prince has never actually been THAT subtle when it comes to borrowing styles and sounds from Jimi, Little Richard, James Brown, Sly, The Beatles, etc.

I mean the entire Purple Rain look/vibe was totally a 60's Jimi thing. Purple Rain/Purple Haze? The Parade tour was almost entirely a James Brown 60's soul revue homage. I could go on, but you likely get the point.

skywalker said:

herb4 said:

Thanks for the thoughtful and well thought out reply. You replied to me so that's who I assumed you were addressing.

We're all over the place here and you seem to be missing my point, while other people seem to know what I'm talking about. Even if you don't, I'm sorry if my point is muddled and unclear. Maybe Im getting shitier at writing.

Long story short, the Kimmel preformance reminded me of a Kravitz show, and it struck me as odd becuase Lenny is entirely unoriginal while Prince, even though obviously influenced by James, Sly, Hendrix, Zeppelin, Clinton, Santana, etc. etc. never seemed so obvious about it. Kravitz built his career ripping off Hendrix, the Beatles, Prince and a hundred other people, the same way Prince did to an extent, but not nearly as blatant. I didn't mention Page, Jimi, Marvin Gaye, Otis Redding, The Rolling Stones or Little Richard because it seemed self evident to anyone who knows about music and when I declared Lenny the ultimate rip off artist I didn't realize I had to establish my rock and roll credibility by going back that far. I didn't mention Muddy Waters, Howlin Wolf or Robert Johnson either, but that was never my point.

I'm pretty sure I'm old enough and well versed enough in music to really get into it if you feel like it. My point was it was WEIRD to watch Prince perform and go "Huh. That was incredibly Lenny-esque. If I wanted to see that, I'd just go watch Lenny Kravitz." I felt the same way about "Dreamer", which was so blatantly Hendrix-like that it damned near ruined the song for me. I get influence and I even get blatant plagiarism (see: Led Zeppelin). I've seen Prince perform in ways that reminded directly of someone he was ripping off (James, Jimi, Sly, George), but never someone who SO BLATANTLY and SHAMELESSY WHO RIPPED OFF HIM. He's imitating his imitators (that are imitating others, including him) is what I mean, OK?

Trust me, skywalker, I don't need a lesson in Rock 101. I assumed a certain level of pre-supposed knowledge on the matter when I posted the thread.

Cool. Thank you for the response as well. I think I get what you are saying now. Prince is wearing his influences more obviously now...as much as Lenny Kravitz usually does.

That said, I do think there is an argument to be made that Prince has never actually been THAT subtle when it comes to borrowing styles and sounds from Jimi, Little Richard, James Brown, Sly, The Beatles, etc.

I mean the entire Purple Rain look/vibe was totally a 60's Jimi thing. Purple Rain/Purple Haze? The Parade tour was almost entirely a James Brown 60's soul revue homage. I could go on, but you likely get the point.

Oh definitely.

The reason I first turned on to Prince was that he was a stew/jambalaya of all my favorite types of music (Jimi, Sly, Clinton, MJ, Bootsy, Stevie, James, etc.). He even melded some punk and new wave gender bending shit in there (Bowie, Blondie, Clash, The New York Dolls) and a lot of straight up classic rock (Zep, Santana, Stones, etc.). He just did it so cleverly and with a such a slight of hand and originality that it never bothered me because it never it struck me as overly blatant.

All of my firends back then liked ONE type of music, compartmentalized and conveniently segregated by the little plastic dividers in record stores and radio stations (punk, rock, metal, disco, R&B), back when those things existed in ways that were meanigful anyway. I liked a little bit of all it. I liked Zeppelin and the Stones but also liked Parlaiment and James Brown. I liked Journey, Foreigner and Pink Floyd but also liked Bad Brains, Earth Wind and Fire, T. Rex, The Cure, some of the hip hop and disco I heard when I'd go to the skating rink and even older, more square things like Elvis or stuff off the Grease soun dtrack. I never got why these things could never co-exist on one radio station or even in a personal record collection.

That's part of the reason I love the Red Hot Chille Peppers too. They combine(d) so many different styles that I like and made a sound uniquely their own. Sorry about the rant but I guess it just seems like with Prince anymore, his one-offs are getting more blatant and less original. I think I'm just getting old and feel like I've heard it all before. Perhaps it is ME that has come full circle.

I disagree with you on Prince channeling lenny kravitz. kravitz has never played the guitar and thrown it off at the very end with such swag and nonchalance as Prince has.

herb4 said:

To the point that he's just copying other artists who copy him? I remember first digging on Prince and thinking he reminded me of Sly Stone, Hendrix and James Brown. People like that. Then in the late 80's and early 90's, I'd see other artists (Kravitz, George Michael, Terrance D'Arby) and feel like they reminded me of Prince. Now, after watching the Kimmel performance, even though I liked it, I was nagged with the feeling that I'd seen it before and then it hit me. Now I feel like Prince is doing his best lenny Kravitz impression.

It's like when I do my Bill Cosby impression but it's just me doing Eddie Murphy doing Bill Cosby.

I think the days of ground breaking originality are long since past. Ahrdly a revelation but it's never been more clear to me. I like the new stuff and all, but damn if we're not right on the edge of self parody at this point. Kravitz is the biggest rip off of all time and damn if Prince aint ripping him off right back.

How old am I again? Anyone else feeling this way?

I wonder how can people be so negatively criticizing Prince that way..??

Isn't it that you, who see all the "look alike, whenever someone likes a person, he sees that one in all others whom he likes also..

I mean, you can see similarities, you can see An Afro looking like another afro, it's only in your eyes.

The man has his style, on stage, in front of cameras, on tv etc.. he's an artist and a "character" as well, in order to protect himself..

When you see him live, the first minutes, his "jaw" is a bit stressed, his nerves are on peaks, then little by little, when he makes one with his music and the feeling he's got from the audience, he becomes natural: relaxed and no other style, just himself..

Of course, IMO, from my Point of VIEW and from what I, can feel