luvsexy4all said:

rdhull said:

All n All, I just dont want Prince ito be bogged down to just being the dirty minded sex dwarf...and not the supreme musician. If yall cant get with what I saying than its true, Prince has the WORST audience of any artist.

it would appear that the females like his arse and his male fans like the artistry

Most would think that so but thats stereotypical. Many women (here) respect the artistry and give not one fuck (if one had a bag of fucks) regarding his arse etc etc.

And still if so I posted about that before too.. that Prince caters to the 'chicks' by worrying about turning them on while we who repsect the art are left in the cold..I mean if anything, Im not a groupie..Im..Band-Aid (shoutouts to Cameron Crowe/Penny Lane) lol.

But dont get me wrong (shoutout to The Pretenders)..I dont blame him for what skills he has to write and perform some ..ahem..panty droppers..hell I throw my boxers at the speakers to Call My Name ...but there's more to life than pleasing these elements.

I know, ye,s he was enmored that Rudy Valentino had thousands of women at his funeral.....but there got to be some for the folks who can dig the way he works his art to get them panties dropped, wet, and set.

.

[Edited 2/8/13 10:15am]

rdhull said:

tricky99 said:

Just relax and let prince be prince. I myself am amazed that he his still putting out great music after all these years and all those songs. He is truly a genuis but his fans can't stop tugging on him. The greatness of Prince is he is forever defying his fans expectations of what he should do or create.

i was watching Unsung the other day that featured Midnight star. They were basically contemporaries of Prince. They are long gone. We are blessed to have an artist like him who continually evolves and creates. Its not like he won't ever do another "mature" song. Why people always need to reduce Prince to fit their own desires?

Hey listen to me..its because he took it to a higher trajectory that he isnt on Unsung..and here we are back to him doing Midnight Star.

I want Prince to be Prince. Prince being Prince doesnt mean having to cater to the hoes of the world. Thats devolving/devolution imo (shout out to Devo! How y'all been? Are We Not men is still the shit.)

The fuck is wrong with you. This is me, rdhull..Im not some idot off the net coming in here with no sound reasoning and judgment calling things a masterpiece all willy nilly..you think I dont think we are blessed Prince is still around etc? This is some cold blooded shit you assumed on my person.

Yeah, u were all up in house and everything (won't let anyone forget that). So since Prince is 54 he can't create sexy songs? What's putting off breakfast for sex got to do with hoes? I don't see any cooralation myself.

The amazing thing about human beings is they can be more than one thing. So Prince can be reflective and sexy. Luckily for Prince sex is still good to him. Maybe u need some new Pussy in your like lol.

tricky99 said:

rdhull said:

Hey listen to me..its because he took it to a higher trajectory that he isnt on Unsung..and here we are back to him doing Midnight Star.

I want Prince to be Prince. Prince being Prince doesnt mean having to cater to the hoes of the world. Thats devolving/devolution imo (shout out to Devo! How y'all been? Are We Not men is still the shit.)

The fuck is wrong with you. This is me, rdhull..Im not some idot off the net coming in here with no sound reasoning and judgment calling things a masterpiece all willy nilly..you think I dont think we are blessed Prince is still around etc? This is some cold blooded shit you assumed on my person.

Yeah, u were all up in house and everything (won't let anyone forget that). So since Prince is 54 he can't create sexy songs? What's putting off breakfast for sex got to do with hoes? I don't see any cooralation myself.

The amazing thing about human beings is they can be more than one thing. So Prince can be reflective and sexy. Luckily for Prince sex is still good to him. Maybe u need some new Pussy in your like lol.

You make it sound like Im always talking about that Lotusflower experience. I can see your opinions are biased. So I bring it up on my fb page on the anniversarry of it happening, I never bring it up here except rarely in passing...if even that. And if anything, because of that, my criticsm should be revealed as more authentic than just someone else simply talking shit. And the old standby of any semblance of critcism as a testament (shout out to that bootleg testament) of being jealous of Prince an his women..really? Is that what you relagate this shit too and can come up with?

shaking my damn head..prince fans..lawd

.

[Edited 2/8/13 9:04am]

rdhull said:

tricky99 said:

Yeah, u were all up in house and everything (won't let anyone forget that). So since Prince is 54 he can't create sexy songs? What's putting off breakfast for sex got to do with hoes? I don't see any cooralation myself.

The amazing thing about human beings is they can be more than one thing. So Prince can be reflective and sexy. Luckily for Prince sex is still good to him. Maybe u need some new Pussy in your like lol.

You make it sound like Im always talking about that Lotusflower experinece. I can see your opinios are biased. So I brng it up on my fb page on the anniversarry of it happening, I never bring it up here except rarely in pasing. And if anything, because of that, my criticsm should be revealed as more authentic than just someone else simply talking shit. And the old standby of any semblance of critcism as a testament (shout out to that bootleg testament) of being jealous of Prince an his women..really? Is that what you relagate this shit too and can come up with?

shaking my dmamn head..prince fans..lawd

You really didn't address the real issue. Why do u want prince to conform to who u think he should be?

tricky99 said:

rdhull said:

You make it sound like Im always talking about that Lotusflower experinece. I can see your opinios are biased. So I brng it up on my fb page on the anniversarry of it happening, I never bring it up here except rarely in pasing. And if anything, because of that, my criticsm should be revealed as more authentic than just someone else simply talking shit. And the old standby of any semblance of critcism as a testament (shout out to that bootleg testament) of being jealous of Prince an his women..really? Is that what you relagate this shit too and can come up with?

shaking my dmamn head..prince fans..lawd

You really didn't address the real issue. Why do u want prince to conform to who u think he should be?

You and I are done. There will be no penis between us.

luvsexy4all said:

it would appear that the females like his arse and his male fans like the artistry

Dumber shit has never been written.

Plus, it's baffling that people who have been on the journey with Prince, who have seen him use sex as a metaphor for everything from revolution to rebirth to social protest to spiritual transport, would still look at sex as cheap, "dirty" and without complexity or profundity. This is just so cliche. Prince has elevated sex more and given it more dimension than any other artist and the short-sightedness of this conversation is absurd.

[Edited 2/8/13 10:14am]

Tis a great post/critique, rd. Thank you for making simple what is quite a complex affair.

I also agree with you with regards to a certain aspect of the Prince brand "people-pleasing" ways. I suspect he is still very much drawn to the adulation of the anonymous critical and commercial mass crowd, which if we were to speculate from a deeper psychological perspective may have its roots in how unpopular he felt growing up (long before the fame and adulation, but how his subsequent acceptance grew his esteem). I perhaps incorrectly thought a benefit of his spiritual growth might be that he could learn to grow beyond that aspect of esteem via others, especially as an artist who has long been drawn to other independent greats like Miles Davis, who pioneered his own growth and thereby divided his most ardent of fans/critics. To a certain extent, I think Prince has actually done this, to a certain extent, but the growth appears thus far woefully limitied, especially in terms of how he has reflected it through his artistry (albums, live shows, concepts, songwriting, statements). I imagine he is somewhat unconsciously stuck within the duality of his own fame and the juxtaposed desire for authenticity, but the fame and adulation trajectory keeps enticing him more (much to the dismay of those who desire more authentic, genuine, deeper, honest growth).

Whilst I hear what you are saying with regards to Breakfast Can Wait, I think one promising sign is that if you listen to the fluidity of his music since Musicology/3121, starting with Planet Earth, ascending with Lotus Flower, and somewhat coming together with 20Ten, I certainly sense a more natural musicianship percolating through his studio output, but he has yet to tear the music off its proverbial hinges and forever go down The Rainbow Children-esque route of astonishingly strong authentic artistic statemenship. That said, with Breakfast Can Wait, the production itself (minus the lyrics) does continue down the more 'real' route. The beat itself can't be denied, as it is more fluid, honest, and gritty (forget the Newpower Soul/MplSound comparisons). The fact that many are hearing Sign O The Times-esque beat making exemplifies what I hear in Breakfast Can Wait, which is everything Prince does best when he just is the true authentic beat maker, so in that respect there is hope, if he continues down this route.

Surprisingly, I actually still think he's finding his way, so to speak, which is all part and parcel of any journey, artistic or otherwise. But, I, too, like you and others who have boarded this ship for quite some time now, long for the genuinely less polished, less faux-packaged, less people pleasing product-like growth. He may yet surprise us. He perhaps just needs to find his back against the wall again (competition/sadness is a great motivator for Prince), and decide that his response is not to want to want to please, but rather to displease (a la The Black Album / The Rainbow Children etc). If only he would truly become a people displeaser, I think it would ironically be the final becoming of his place in the musical pantheon of the true greats.

love,

Spirit

I can't even figure out the premise of this thread. Still stuck on the first post.

Good one, errant; that actually made me laugh.

love,

Spirit

rdhull said:

KeithyT said:

Think how BIG the jizzing guitar would have to be on that Revolution reunion tour

Keithy!!!!!!!

at the pair of you.

SpiritOtter said:

Tis a great post/critique, rd. Thank you for making simple what is quite a complex affair.

I also agree with you with regards to a certain aspect of the Prince brand "people-pleasing" ways. I suspect he is still very much drawn to the adulation of the anonymous critical and commercial mass crowd, which if we were to speculate from a deeper psychological perspective may have its roots in how unpopular he felt growing up (long before the fame and adulation, but how his subsequent acceptance grew his esteem). I perhaps incorrectly thought a benefit of his spiritual growth might be that he could learn to grow beyond that aspect of esteem via others, especially as an artist who has long been drawn to other independent greats like Miles Davis, who pioneered his own growth and thereby divided his most ardent of fans/critics. To a certain extent, I think Prince has actually done this, to a certain extent, but the growth appears thus far woefully limitied, especially in terms of how he has reflected it through his artistry (albums, live shows, concepts, songwriting, statements). I imagine he is somewhat unconsciously stuck within the duality of his own fame and the juxtaposed desire for authenticity, but the fame and adulation trajectory keeps enticing him more (much to the dismay of those who desire more authentic, genuine, deeper, honest growth).

Whilst I hear what you are saying with regards to Breakfast Can Wait, I think one promising sign is that if you listen to the fluidity of his music since Musicology/3121, starting with Planet Earth, ascending with Lotus Flower, and somewhat coming together with 20Ten, I certainly sense a more natural musicianship percolating through his studio output, but he has yet to tear the music off its proverbial hinges and forever go down The Rainbow Children-esque route of astonishingly strong authentic artistic statemenship. That said, with Breakfast Can Wait, the production itself (minus the lyrics) does continue down the more 'real' route. The beat itself can't be denied, as it is more fluid, honest, and gritty (forget the Newpower Soul/MplSound comparisons). The fact that many are hearing Sign O The Times-esque beat making exemplifies what I hear in Breakfast Can Wait, which is everything Prince does best when he just is the true authentic beat maker, so in that respect there is hope, if he continues down this route.

Surprisingly, I actually still think he's finding his way, so to speak, which is all part and parcel of any journey, artistic or otherwise. But, I, too, like you and others who have boarded this ship for quite some time now, long for the genuinely less polished, less faux-packaged, less people pleasing product-like growth. He may yet surprise us. He perhaps just needs to find his back against the wall again (competition/sadness is a great motivator for Prince), and decide that his response is not to want to want to please, but rather to displease (a la The Black Album / The Rainbow Children etc). If only he would truly become a people displeaser, I think it would ironically be the final becoming of his place in the musical pantheon of the true greats.

love,

Spirit

This really comes off as just so much psycho-babble. Can't a song just be a song? No matter what Prince does a certain segment of his fan base doesn't like it so how can you be sure he is trying to please anyone other than himself at the particular moment that he is creating?

I never seen an artist where so much is continually expected. I'm sure Prince could do a TRC part two but if he is not in that "space" right now its not going to happen.

Psychobabble aside, tricky99, my point is about his musical execution based on the potency of his attitude. In my opinion, he has yet to truly mature as an artist and, if and when he truly does, it will be clear in a way that is unquestionable. Right now, his growth and execution as a mature artist is questionable. Your point that can't a song just be a song. Yes, of course, it can be. But that is actually part of the problem. If he continues down the song is just a song route, rather than everything an artist can be, his potency is lost, as has been the case with his products of late. It's about potency; unquestionable potency, whether you, or I, or anyone else likes it or not.

love,

Spirit

.

[Edited 2/8/13 11:00am]

errant said:

I can't even figure out the premise of this thread. Still stuck on the first post.

LOL so it's not just me, then

I don't agree with you at all, RDHull. For one thing, "Breakfast Can Wait" is nothing like "Box O' Chocolates," to my mind. While I don't consider Breakfast to be the Sign O' The Times era masterpiece that some are claiming it to be, it's definitely a fun, melodic, funky little tune that makes me smile. Box O' Chocolates, on the other hand, was the antithesis of fun, the opposite of melodic and the arch-nemesis of funky.

I guess I understand where you're coming from, in that it would seem silly for Prince to write nothing but sexy lyrics nowadays, but most of his songs now are anything but sexy ... so it's nice to hear one that is. And I don't mean the lyrics so much as the way it's sung, and the beat, and just the general vibe. Do you really think that when you are 54-y/o, you won't think about sex anymore? Do you not know any 54-y/o men? Trust me, they're still men and they still have sex drives...and there ain't nothing wrong with that.

You mention Reflection a lot in this thread, and I'm with you on that song -- well, the songwriting and lyrical aspect of it anyway (not so much the production of the album version, which is as plastic as he's ever been, and that's saying a lot). The live version in particular is warm, and touching, and gorgeous. I would love to hear more songs like this.

But I would also love to hear more songs like Breakfast Can Wait. And Screwdriver, for that matter (especially the "remix," which I think is the most dance-inducing song I've heard from him in almost a decade). Shoot, I even like "Same Page, Different Book" quite a bit. All quite different songs, with quite different musical and lyrical approaches ... and isn't his diversity part of what we love about him?

rdhull said:

RosesRred said:

maybe it's in past tense...'He used to surround himself with thinkers'

Right now, I THINK HE IS trying to PLEASE everyone and trying to do that, fails.

Well Im not trying to be one of those complainers and such because its impossible to please everyone. But to try and please the section of audience who want him to strip down has always been a bit of a trip and reduced the music to bullshit. Ive always said that, not just now. These gimme sex gimme dirty types, disrespect the music and dont really care about the music. They just want the experience of the star singing to the fan and getting wet while it happens. That was cool back then but now..its fucking weird. And it's a disservice to his legacy imo and to the music and people whp appreciate the musicianship. I guess it isnt wrong to jack u off once in a while either. But at least Im not all rah rah just because he "seemingly"..seemingly..is going dirty again in a way. Im not just rah rah and letting whatever be eaten up with no qualms an no dissonance to what is going on. If anythig Im not complaining but just expressing my bafflement (is that a word) on thinking we were on a trajectory to keep going higher.

Not me. I finally heard his latest one yesterday and I think it sounds like shit. Not for the lyrics, but for the music behind them. It's bland and midtempo and whatever type drums or drum machines he's using sounds on the verge of "current" and I despise anything that even resembles even the smallest fraction of what the other current artists are doing. I love nasty, the nastier the better, but if he cussed harder than the 2 Live Crew, it wouldn't matter if the music behind it sounds like shit. Music has always come first with me and lyrics second.

I know what you mean though about those prior to this saying "Prince is in his 50s now, I'm glad he's not nasty anymore" and then when he does get nasty again, then they praise it too and then fight you for pointing out how they were before. Hell, they're called "fams", they don't have a mind of their own. Prince is their Lord and Saviour and whatever road he takes, they take too. They're trying to earn a spot in Purple Heaven in the Afterworld. I hope Prince never goes Jim Jones on them.

SpiritOtter said:

Psychobabble aside, tricky99, my point is about his musical execution based on the potency of his attitude. In my opinion, he has yet to truly mature as an artist and, if and when he truly does, it will be clear in a way that is unquestionable. Right now, his growth and execution as a mature artist is questionable. Your point that can't a song just be a song. Yes, of course, it can be. But that is actually part of the problem. If he continues down the song is just a song route, rather than everything an artist can be, his potency is lost, as has been the case with his products of late. It's about potency; unquestionable potency, whether you, or I, or anyone else likes it or not.

love,

Spirit

.

[Edited 2/8/13 11:00am]

Please define "mature artist". And please give examples of other legends who were and were not "mature artists'. Without real world examples of "potency" your words have no real meaning.

tricky99,

There is no need to "define" maturity or "compare" with anyone else. If you don't understand, then that is understandable. But it requires no further explanation.

love,

Spirit

SpiritOtter said:

tricky99,

There is no need to "define" maturity or "compare" with anyone else. If you don't understand, then that is understandable. But it requires no further explanation.

love,

Spirit

oh please. I call bull on this. Its not that I don't understand its that your point is basically meaningless. Its like trying to grab air.

IT'S A FALSE DICHOTOMY!! ALWAYS HAS BEEN, not just for him, for the dozens of predecessors who have tried to separate the "sacred and the profane". (marvin, sam, green, etc) now don't get me twisted, there's IS a separation but from an artistic standpoint, why can't he make a song like Breakfast at 50plus AND Dreamer?! That's the complex, diverse, talented. HUMAN male that he is! Does one's libido DIE as they get older, wiser, deeper?! (I know it diminishes but.... not my point) We don't know if this is an account of some unmarried promiscuity (that's where the hypocrisy comes in for me) or just from his past encounters, or his vivid imagination. I'm glad he hasn't gone "Dylan", his version of that (whatever it is) will be, like in all other aspects of his career, uniquely his. Hell, ppl STILL don't get or are severely put off by The Rainbow Children, and that shit is GENIUS even IN SPITE of the JW doctrine (which i hate and makes me cringe but...). Again, dude can't win for losing.

tricky99 said:

SpiritOtter said:

tricky99,

There is no need to "define" maturity or "compare" with anyone else. If you don't understand, then that is understandable. But it requires no further explanation.

love,

Spirit

oh please. I call bull on this. Its not that I don't understand its that your point is basically meaningless. Its like trying to grab air.

tricky99,

If you aren't someone who can understand critiques about art that transcend rationality/logic, then there really is little sense me trying to come down to your earth-like, grounded, level. I'd rather continue to float in the air, or swim deep under the sea, regardless of whether it makes sense to you. Those that can understand, do understand (even if they disagree). But I find it slightly immature of you that just because you believe my critique is "meaningless", you appear to resort to trying to stamp your intellectual authority all over it, but only it would appear as a means to denigrate. From that perspective, we are in different lanes/leagues.

love,

Spirit

datdude said:

IT'S A FALSE DICHOTOMY!! ALWAYS HAS BEEN, not just for him, for the dozens of predecessors who have tried to separate the "sacred and the profane". (marvin, sam, green, etc) now don't get me twisted, there's IS a separation but from an artistic standpoint, why can't he make a song like Breakfast at 50plus AND Dreamer?! That's the complex, diverse, talented. HUMAN male that he is! Does one's libido DIE as they get older, wiser, deeper?! (I know it diminishes but.... not my point) We don't know if this is an account of some unmarried promiscuity (that's where the hypocrisy comes in for me) or just from his past encounters, or his vivid imagination. I'm glad he hasn't gone "Dylan", his version of that (whatever it is) will be, like in all other aspects of his career, uniquely his. Hell, ppl STILL don't get or are severely put off by The Rainbow Children, and that shit is GENIUS even IN SPITE of the JW doctrine (which i hate and makes me cringe but...). Again, dude can't win for losing.

There's no problem with that at all. I've been saying all along that just because someone gets older doesn't mean they turn into a sexless goodie two shoes. No problem with Prince at all. The funny thing is seeing the fans that were always saying "He's in his 50s now and he's not supposed to be nasty and I wouldn't want a 50 something year old man to be nasty" do a 360 degree turn when he gets nasty again and praise him as if they never made their previous statements. This one ain't about Prince this time but more about seeing which folks are normal fans and which folks are obesessed fams. I love how they conveniently change their opinion when Prince does something against their previous opinion.

luvsexy4all said:

rdhull said:

All n All, I just dont want Prince ito be bogged down to just being the dirty minded sex dwarf...and not the supreme musician. If yall cant get with what I saying than its true, Prince has the WORST audience of any artist.

it would appear that the females like his arse and his male fans like the artistry

really!?

I know I've just read a prince-themed thread, but for some reason I have that same feeling I had when I read the Rim Job thread in GD.

rdhull said:

gotcha..kind of

brings to mind his intervew where it was rpeorted that he said he doesnt talk to old people

well maybe one should beause its sort of uncooth to act your shoe size instead of your age ...at a certain point/age..

I mean he surrounds himself with thinkers such as Cornel West, Tavis and them...and we get Breakfast Can Wait...all those years of yearnin and learning and we are back to Dirty Mind?

I want to be taken higher....give me Dreamer, Reflection, ....

curious. i guessed "breakfast" was an old Vault track???

I am a still little confused about the point of this thread and direction it has gone.

I saw "Breakfast Can Wait" as a B-Side to Screwdriver. Also "Breakfast" is a fun sexy song, similar to Mr. Goodnight. The only analysis I sense is Prince is trying to express himself sexually while honoring the limits he put on himself in regards to cursing and vulgarity. His limits have forced him to use playful innuendo and suggestiveness which has made his lyrics to me more interesting than his past lyrics. Prince is still growing as a person and as an artist. Plus Prince is having fun with this newer evolution of himself and it is fun to experience.

And on a Prince being a sexually active 54yo? I find the reaction silly and very ageist. I know plenty of men and women in their 50s, 60s, and even 70s that have an active and healthy sex drive and life. God Bless them.

And most Prince fans I know regardless of their gender connect to Prince and his music on a deep spiritual level that is filled with a lot of love and respect.

All I care about is MY falsetto, which hasn't come back since I lost my voice with the flu a few weeks ago. I just go squeak, if anything.

So,

Prince--the next few songs need to be in your normal voice, just so I can sing along.

I'll let you know when it comes back, and then you can do some more falsetto.

Oh, and write more pre-schooler directed tunes, so I can sing them at work.

I love this new fan-driven Prince. It's kind of like a jukebox... only with a heartbeat.

RedKite said:

I am a still little confused about the point of this thread and direction it has gone.

I saw "Breakfast Can Wait" as a B-Side to Screwdriver. Also "Breakfast" is a fun sexy song, similar to Mr. Goodnight. The only analysis I sense is Prince is trying to express himself sexually while honoring the limits he put on himself in regards to cursing and vulgarity. His limits have forced him to use playful innuendo and suggestiveness which has made his lyrics to me more interesting than his past lyrics. Prince is still growing as a person and as an artist. Plus Prince is having fun with this newer evolution of himself and it is fun to experience.

And on a Prince being a sexually active 54yo? I find the reaction silly and very ageist. I know plenty of men and women in their 50s, 60s, and even 70s that have an active and healthy sex drive and life. God Bless them.

And most Prince fans I know regardless of their gender connect to Prince and his music on a deep spiritual level that is filled with a lot of love and respect.

Prince has always used innuendo and suggestiveness -- way more than in these two recent songs. Have you been a Prince fan long??

I agree with you about the ageism -- and the last point regarding fans' genders.

I think we shouldn't take every single song Prince writes as a manifesto of his beliefs/intentions for the future. He writes a lot... Some songs will be profound and full of meaning, others will be silly and funny, others will be sexy... That's the way he's always been, and I wouldn't be surpirsed if he wrote some sex innuendo in his songs when he'll be in his 80s or 90s... Even if at that point he may not remeber exactly why

I like his spiritual research in music and appreciate lyrics that have a meaning (socially or spiritually too) in general. And I must say, I like the fact that he quitted cirse and all that stuff.

But it seems funny in some way that people claim for Prince to have "some decendy" in his songs. I mean. Prince. Decency??

He says what he wants... That's one of the things I like about him, even if it makes embarassing to be a fan sometimes

coffeebreak said:

I think we shouldn't take every single song Prince writes as a manifesto of his beliefs/intentions for the future. He writes a lot... Some songs will be profound and full of meaning, others will be silly and funny, others will be sexy... That's the way he's always been, and I wouldn't be surpirsed if he wrote some sex innuendo in his songs when he'll be in his 80s or 90s... Even if at that point he may not remeber exactly why

I like his spiritual research in music and appreciate lyrics that have a meaning (socially or spiritually too) in general. And I must say, I like the fact that he quitted cirse and all that stuff.

But it seems funny in some way that people claim for Prince to have "some decendy" in his songs. I mean. Prince. Decency??

He says what he wants... That's one of the things I like about him, even if it makes embarassing to be a fan sometimes

You summarized how I feel quite well! Thank you!

I agree with you!, totally!